Date   

Re: Hebrew names in Hungarian birth records #names #hungary

Judy Petersen
 

Hi Erika,
     To answer your questions:

1) If the records were on two different microfilms, then there were two sets of records.  In addition to the record set that is kept in the local archive, copies were usually (though not always) sent to regional and state archives.  This is true of pre and post 1895 records.

2) re the midwife:  The name of the midwife is important information if you are the descendant of that person.  :-)  But for the rest of us, it just creates too many "hits".  Usually in a town, the same one or two midwives attended all the births.  Their careers could last 20 years or more.  And the midwife's name is recorded on every entry.  So you could get literally hundreds of record hits for "Hani Weisz" if she were the midwife.  Which complicates a person's search enormously as now you have to weed out all these false positives.


Re: Names of headings for un-indexed data in vital records #general #hungary

Judy Petersen
 

Julia's answer is excellent and very complete.  As a transcriber, the only things I can add are:

1) though most transcriptions are based on familysearch microfilms, not all are, so you may come across records for which you cannot access the originals.  This is generally due to one of two factors--the individual archive may have agreed to let the records be photographed on condition that the images not be made public, or familysearch and the archive agreed to let the images be made public for a limited amount of time, then the images have to be withdrawn (this happens quite a bit with Slovakian records)

2) finding the right image: unfortunately, there is not always consistency in how the records are organized for transcription.  Sometimes the record number is based on the page number and sometimes it is based on the image number.  So keep that in mind when searching for the record.

3) capturing information: especially in the very early days of transcribing, there was an emphasis on indexing as opposed to transcribing so we could get records online quickly.  So we were often told to just capture the essential information (name/date) and leave out everything else.  Over time, as people became more experienced or as native Hungarian speakers started transcribing, we started capturing more information and placing it in the comments section.  Now, especially for some projects where the image is not or will not be accessible, there is an emphasis on capturing all the information on the record (including in some cases the midwife and address).  So what information is captured depends on a) when the image was transcribed, b) the experience and language skills of the transcriber and c) the requirements of the project itself.


Re: 1764/1765 Revision lists #lithuania

Joel Ratner
 

The only revision lists on the web site linked to the Office of the Chief Archivist of Lithuania are the 1765 lists previously identified. If there are any later ones, I have not found them.

That takes us to the revision lists from 1795 - 1858. Familysearch now has microfilms available for view of the 1795 - 1834 revision lists. Technically speaking, they have covered F515/15/ 1 - 588.
There are many more in the wings however, I don't know if the 1850/51 and 1858 revision lists were filmed. Beyond 1858, there were family lists included in F515 which also may have been filmed however, the LitvakSIG may know more about this.

If you go looking for the 1795 - 1834 Jewish community RLs at Familysearch, they are NOT under the title "Jewish records", but under "Taxation". See below.

Joel



Re: Rezniks of Pohost, (Slutsk) and New York #belarus #usa

ceteris@...
 

My great grandfather was Jacob Resnikov. He came from somewhere  in Belarus or Ukraine.
As a young man he came to Odessa where he met and married my GGM, Slawa Tsatskin.
I know nothing of his family but I haven't found any Resnikovs in Odessa.
This doesn't help you but it expands on the knowledge of the name.


Re: 1921 Census to Be Published on Find My Past #announcements #unitedkingdom

Jill Whitehead
 

Thankyou for this useful tip. People can of course check the 1939 Register for further information which is already on Find My Past. 

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Re: Geni and Family Search #general

Susan stone
 

Elias. I agree. I’ll stick with Ancestry. But.... i have a distant cousin who adds unverified people to her tree even on Ancestry and I’ve mistakenly added some if it. Only to find that dates are wrong and two siblings can’t be 40 yrs apart etc. 
Geni has helped me with my religious relatives. 


Florence MARMOR burial records of the New York Mokkom Sholom, Bayside and Acacia cemeteries #usa

David Lewin
 

I have uploaded the 31,900 records of Florence MARMOR's burial
records of the New York Mokkom Sholom, Bayside and Acacia cemeteries
to
https://archive.org/details/mokom-sholom-bayside-acacia-burials-florence-marmor-records

David Lewin
London


Looking for the Grunfeld from Cluj who wrote a book #general

Peninah Zilberman
 

Hello,

 

Greatly would appreciate if you can get back to me as

I lost your posting  

I have some suggestions for your inquiry  

As well would like to purchase your book

Thanks

Peninah Zilberman

 

LOGO tarbut 2015-EMAIL

Peninah Zilberman

STAY SAFE & HEALTHY

www.ftsighet.com

Canada 1-416-781-0330

Romania + 40-74-414-5351

Israel 972-54-228-8141

 

 


"His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

jeremy frankel
 

Dear Genners,

I am extremely reluctant to add my two cents to the plethora of emails on the topic of immigrants’ names (be it first, last, or both) being “changed” at a US port of entry, but I would like to offer this story. At last year's genealogy conference, I bought a copy of Michael Krasny's book on humor. As some may will recall he was the banquet speaker. Amongst the many stories he told (in the book) was one about a Cleveland childhood schoolfriend who told Michael that her grandfather's name had been changed at Ellis Island.

Hmm, I thought. There was sufficient information to do some research, and to show that no, the name had not been changed from "pfennig" to Venig (he thought the immigration officer was asking how much money he had). The name in the manifest was actually Wenig. It probably made a nice story to “explain” to his granddaughter the slightly unusual last name she had inherited, especially as he may well have told the story with a bit of an accent.

Sweltering in place in northern California


Jeremy G Frankel
ex-Edgware, Middlesex, England
now Sacramento, California, USA

Searching for:
FRANKEL/FRENKEL/FRENKIEL: Gombin, Poland; London, England
GOLDRATH/GOLD: Praszka, Poland; London, England
KOENIGSBERG: Vilkaviskis, Lithuania; London, England; NY, USA
LEVY (later LEADER): Kalisz, Poland; London, England
PINKUS, Poland; London, England
PRINCZ/PRINCE: Krakow, Poland; London, England; NY, USA


Re: 1764/1765 Revision lists #lithuania

Rabbi Ben-Zion Saydman
 

Shalom Joel,

This is fascinating.  I have had no success finding my MAIPER family prior to 1840.  They were living in Rumshishok (Rumsiskes) and it seems like they just fell out of the sky.  There are no other MAIPERS anywhere.  So either my ancestor Avraham Naftali ben Lipman MAIPER came alone from somewhere else and left any extended family behind, or he was beamed down by aliens.  We have two versions of a well known family legend.  One says a French Jewish officer arrived with Napoleon and decided to stay.  The other says a French soldier got separated from his unit, approached a stately elder in Rumshishok and said "Excusez moi Mon Pere."  Later when Jews were forced to take surnames this stately elder chose MONPERE and it was corrupted to MAIPER.  The only thing we know for a fact is that MAIPER is not a typical Russian or Jewish name.  All native Russian speakers who have seen the name in original Russian language documents say it sounds French or Portuguese.  I recently found a Jewish family from Eastern France and Holland with the surname MAISONPIERRE.  This might fill in a lot of holes, validate family lore and enable further connections, if I could prove a link.  However, Alexander Beider does not believe either MONPERE or MAISONPIERRE linguistically connect to MAIPER.

So, I am back to looking for MAIPER or patronymics in and around Rumshishok pre 1840.  I looked at the original Polish documents via your link.  Amazing!  Has anyone put together a list of surnames and/or town names associated with these documents?  Does anything else exist for Rumshishok prior to 1840 that you are aware of?  

Benzi Saydman
Lake Forest, CA

MAYPER (MAIPER), MELTSNER, RAPHAEL, AUG, WERNER, SATINSKY, MARCUS, NEWMAN, RADOFF, NUROCK, NEVIAZSHSKY, SIEGEL, GORDON, BLOCH, IDELSON, BACH, KRULL, LEVIN, BEKER, ZUBACH, ROMM
Rumskiskes, Telsiai, Plunge, Philadelphia, NYC


Re: 1764/1765 Revision lists #lithuania

Rabbi Ben-Zion Saydman
 

This is fascinating.  I have had no success finding my MAIPER family prior to 1840 in Rumshishok.  There are no MAIPERS


Re: Town in Hungary KOMIDAT (UNGAR) #hungary

JPmiaou@...
 

Jackie wrote:
Her paternal grandfather states on his Declaration of Intention that he came from KOMIDAT (UNGAR). Hungary.
Any chance of a link or image? Declarations are generally handwritten... Also, what's the date on this Declaration? Is it before or after the first world war?

_Comitat_ is used in German for "county", and there was a county named Ung with a city named Ungvár in it, which many people found confusing.

Julia Szent-Györgyi
. /\ /\
.>*.*<


Re: What "notions" means? #general

Deanna Levinsky
 

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 06:39 PM, Nicole Heymans wrote:
I hadn't previously come across this meaning of "notions". In the UK these items are "haberdashery".

"England and America are two great nations separated by a common language". (G.B. Shaw).
 
Nicole Heymans

Le sam. 27 juin 2020 à 19:25, Laurie Sosna <lsmacgeek@...> a écrit :

Notions has a very special meaning for me.

 

In the early 1990s, I was a videographer for the Holocaust Oral History Project in San Francisco..

One day, a man arrived for his interview, accompanied by his wife. She sat off to the side quietly as we interviewed her husband. 

 

After his interview was over, he said that we should interview his wife, she was a survivor too.
She said that she wasn’t in a concentration camp, it wasn’t a very interesting story. We explained that every story mattered. I used the example of a George Seurat painting: Every dot of paint contributed the detail and nuance of the final image. She agreed to talk to us.

 

She was born in 1930 in Poland. Her family was deported to what she called a gulag, possibly in Russia. She remembers it was always cold, they were always hungry, supplies were hard to come by. But they could write letters. Her mother wrote to anyone she could think of, asking for help. One day, a package arrived from America. On the box was written the word “Notions.” The guards let it pass through, as it wasn’t worth anything to them. It was filled with needles, thread, buttons, zippers, elastic, snaps and hooks. She said that box saved their lives. It allowed them repair their clothes. A hook or a piece of elastic could keep your coat or sleeve closed against the cold.  And they could barter: trade a needle and thread for food.

 

As she told us the story, I flashed on a cupboard in our kitchen when I was little. On a shelf was my mother’s sewing kit, filled with spools of thread, needles, hooks, snaps.
Next to the kit was a glass jar filled with buttons, saved from worn out clothes. We used those buttons to play driedel, the sparkly ones from coats were worth more than the simple shirt buttons. 

And then I realized she was born the same year as my mother.

 

No other survivor story affected me as profoundly as hers. It connected something from my life to something from hers.
Every time I sew on a button or stitch up a loose hem, there she is.

Laurie Sosna
San Francisco

 

 


 On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 06:39 PM, Nicole Heymans wrote:
I hadn't previously come across this meaning of "notions". In the UK these items are "haberdashery".

"England and America are two great nations separated by a common language". (G.B. Shaw).
 
Nicole Heymans

Le sam. 27 juin 2020 à 19:25, Laurie Sosna <lsmacgeek@...> a écrit :

Notions has a very special meaning for me.

 

In the early 1990s, I was a videographer for the Holocaust Oral History Project in San Francisco..

One day, a man arrived for his interview, accompanied by his wife. She sat off to the side quietly as we interviewed her husband. 

 

After his interview was over, he said that we should interview his wife, she was a survivor too.
She said that she wasn’t in a concentration camp, it wasn’t a very interesting story. We explained that every story mattered. I used the example of a George Seurat painting: Every dot of paint contributed the detail and nuance of the final image. She agreed to talk to us.

 

She was born in 1930 in Poland. Her family was deported to what she called a gulag, possibly in Russia. She remembers it was always cold, they were always hungry, supplies were hard to come by. But they could write letters. Her mother wrote to anyone she could think of, asking for help. One day, a package arrived from America. On the box was written the word “Notions.” The guards let it pass through, as it wasn’t worth anything to them. It was filled with needles, thread, buttons, zippers, elastic, snaps and hooks. She said that box saved their lives. It allowed them repair their clothes. A hook or a piece of elastic could keep your coat or sleeve closed against the cold.  And they could barter: trade a needle and thread for food.

 

As she told us the story, I flashed on a cupboard in our kitchen when I was little. On a shelf was my mother’s sewing kit, filled with spools of thread, needles, hooks, snaps.
Next to the kit was a glass jar filled with buttons, saved from worn out clothes. We used those buttons to play driedel, the sparkly ones from coats were worth more than the simple shirt buttons. 

And then I realized she was born the same year as my mother.

 

No other survivor story affected me as profoundly as hers. It connected something from my life to something from hers.
Every time I sew on a button or stitch up a loose hem, there she is.

Laurie Sosna
San Francisco

 

 


 On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 06:39 PM, Nicole Heymans wrote:
I hadn't previously come across this meaning of "notions". In the UK these items are "haberdashery".

"England and America are two great nations separated by a common language". (G.B. Shaw).
 
Nicole Heymans

Le sam. 27 juin 2020 à 19:25, Laurie Sosna <lsmacgeek@...> a écrit :

Notions has a very special meaning for me.

 

In the early 1990s, I was a videographer for the Holocaust Oral History Project in San Francisco..

One day, a man arrived for his interview, accompanied by his wife. She sat off to the side quietly as we interviewed her husband. 

 

After his interview was over, he said that we should interview his wife, she was a survivor too.
She said that she wasn’t in a concentration camp, it wasn’t a very interesting story. We explained that every story mattered. I used the example of a George Seurat painting: Every dot of paint contributed the detail and nuance of the final image. She agreed to talk to us.

 

She was born in 1930 in Poland. Her family was deported to what she called a gulag, possibly in Russia. She remembers it was always cold, they were always hungry, supplies were hard to come by. But they could write letters. Her mother wrote to anyone she could think of, asking for help. One day, a package arrived from America. On the box was written the word “Notions.” The guards let it pass through, as it wasn’t worth anything to them. It was filled with needles, thread, buttons, zippers, elastic, snaps and hooks. She said that box saved their lives. It allowed them repair their clothes. A hook or a piece of elastic could keep your coat or sleeve closed against the cold.  And they could barter: trade a needle and thread for food.

 

As she told us the story, I flashed on a cupboard in our kitchen when I was little. On a shelf was my mother’s sewing kit, filled with spools of thread, needles, hooks, snaps.
Next to the kit was a glass jar filled with buttons, saved from worn out clothes. We used those buttons to play driedel, the sparkly ones from coats were worth more than the simple shirt buttons. 

And then I realized she was born the same year as my mother.

 

No other survivor story affected me as profoundly as hers. It connected something from my life to something from hers.
Every time I sew on a button or stitch up a loose hem, there she is.

Laurie Sosna
San Francisco

 

 

Here haberdashery was generally for men’s hats and ties and small accessories 
 
--
Deanna M. Levinsky, Long Island, NY


Re: Birth records for same person give different birthplaces #hungary #general

JPmiaou@...
 

These birth two records for the same person, registered in the same town, each give a different birthplace. How did this happen and why?
The indexers interpreted the instructions differently. Both records have the preprinted headers in German, and the column in question is labeled _Wohnung der Eltern_ "residence of parents". Both are filled out with some version of Felsőzsolca, but none of the indexing fields were for parents' residence. One indexer figured that "Town Born" was the closest match, while the other thought none of the fields matched well enough and therefore put the information in "Comments".

642769 is digital film 7951968, which I think may be closer to original than not: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8Q-19HF?i=72&cat=256275
642772 is digital film 4134117, which is an archive/district copy: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99PH-S9J5-T?i=78&cat=256275

Julia Szent-Györgyi
. /\ /\
.>*.*<


Re: Translation request (Polish) #poland #translation

elani.joseph@...
 

My view mate is not working so I could not provide a link so please respond here


Re: Names of headings for un-indexed data in vital records #general #hungary

JPmiaou@...
 

Erika asked:
But I understand that with limited resources only part of the data in the original records could be indexed. My question is, what (kinds of) information is contained in the un-indexed portion of the records?
It depends on what the particular register recorded. (This was sometimes nearly completely unrelated to what the preprinted form called for.) Some examples: Hebrew/Yiddish/religious name, occupation, date and place of wedding announcements, or cause of death.

The "comments" section on JG's indexes often captures probably three-fourths of the non-primary information, such as wedding witnesses and parents' birthplaces; just about the only sort of data I can think of that doesn't usually show up there is the midwife on birth records.

But you don't actually need to deal in hypotheticals and generalities for this question: given that most of JG's indexes were based on FamilySearch microfilms, and said microfilms have now basically all been digitized and nearly all have been made available online, it is theoretically possible to track down an online image for nearly every index entry.

As an illustrative example, take my husband's grandmother's birth:
Name: KRONBERGER, Elza Lili
Date of Birth: 12-Nov-1890
Sex: F
Father: Miksa
Mother: Janka KREISLER
Town Registered: Budapest
Record#: 140-01
Jaras: Local Gov't.
Megye: Pest-Pilis-Solt-Kiskun
Town Born: Pest
Comments: Father b.Papa,mother b.Papa
Source (Film/Item): LDS 642971, Vol. 20

Given this index entry, my first step to finding the corresponding image is to look up the film number in the FS catalog (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog). I paste 642971 into the Film/Fiche Number field and click Search. In this case, it's just one catalog entry: the Jewish congregation of Pest. I click on that and search the page (ctrl-F) for 642971 to see that this microfilm corresponds to digitized film 4466944, containing births 1890-1892. I click the camera icon by that line to browse the film, which contains nearly 600 images. They're in chronological order, so November 1890 should be toward the end of the first third somewhere; for lack of a better idea, I plug 140 (from the Record# field) into the image number, and notice that the page has a stamped 136 in the top corners. Hmm. Add four, and voila:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DW1Q-X52
Film 004466944, image 144 of 597, top line (corresponding to the -01 of the Record#).

Details missing from the JG index: entry number, whatever is in Hebrew below the name, time of birth (!), legitimacy, father's occupation, street address, and midwife. Of these, the occupation and street address can be useful for identification, and the entry number is useful for constructing a "portable" (i.e. not hosting-site-dependent) citation of the register itself, but most of the rest of it is in the realm of "interesting trivia".

Note that it's usually not really possible to go from whatever's in the Record# field to an image number. For example, said grandmother's oldest brother has 293-01 in that field, but this corresponds to image 611 of 621 (on digital film 4227637). I find it most useful to go by the date, although you have to take each film individually -- sometimes, they're archive copies that have "booklets" of births, then marriages, then deaths for year N, then births, marriages, and deaths for year N+1, etc. And sometimes the films are of loose pages assembled in nearly-random order, with no guarantee that the recto goes with the verso that it has been paired with....

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

There was nothing to “get”.   All immigration official did was to match the name on the manifest to the name on the immigrant’s tag….  He did not have to write anything down.


v
   
See the white tags on the immigrants?  

Then the official ticked the name on the manifest.




On Jun 27, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Bob Bloomberg <rpbrpb2012@...> wrote:
Peter,
 
Well said. To say that name changes at Ellis  Island NEVER happened is as wrong as it is to say that all name changes were the result of immigration officials willfully changing names.  With millions of people coming in--Jewish and non Jewish--sometimes they (official, translator, immigrant) just simply got it wrong, or different.
 
Bob


Re: ViewMate translation request - Hungarian #hungary #translation

JPmiaou@...
 

Toivy, I would've been very glad to respond to your ViewMate question, but you closed it, apparently within minutes of receiving an answer. As Jacob points out, said answer has some errors. In this case, the errors don't substantially detract from the usefulness of the answer, but what if that had not been the case?

Please don't close questions for at least a day after receiving an answer. In fact, I would recommend not closing questions at all, except in extreme cases. ViewMate's one-week time window will naturally limit the responses without any intervention being necessary.

Julia Szent-Györgyi
. /\ /\
.>*.*<


Translation request (Polish) #poland #translation

elani.joseph@...
 

Hi all, 
I can read some of this but some of these words I do not recognize






Re: What "notions" means? #general

Nicole Heymans
 

I hadn't previously come across this meaning of "notions". In the UK these items are "haberdashery".

"England and America are two great nations separated by a common language". (G.B. Shaw).

Nicole Heymans


Le sam. 27 juin 2020 à 19:25, Laurie Sosna <lsmacgeek@...> a écrit :

Notions has a very special meaning for me.

 

In the early 1990s, I was a videographer for the Holocaust Oral History Project in San Francisco..

One day, a man arrived for his interview, accompanied by his wife. She sat off to the side quietly as we interviewed her husband. 

 

After his interview was over, he said that we should interview his wife, she was a survivor too.
She said that she wasn’t in a concentration camp, it wasn’t a very interesting story. We explained that every story mattered. I used the example of a George Seurat painting: Every dot of paint contributed the detail and nuance of the final image. She agreed to talk to us.

 

She was born in 1930 in Poland. Her family was deported to what she called a gulag, possibly in Russia. She remembers it was always cold, they were always hungry, supplies were hard to come by. But they could write letters. Her mother wrote to anyone she could think of, asking for help. One day, a package arrived from America. On the box was written the word “Notions.” The guards let it pass through, as it wasn’t worth anything to them. It was filled with needles, thread, buttons, zippers, elastic, snaps and hooks. She said that box saved their lives. It allowed them repair their clothes. A hook or a piece of elastic could keep your coat or sleeve closed against the cold.  And they could barter: trade a needle and thread for food.

 

As she told us the story, I flashed on a cupboard in our kitchen when I was little. On a shelf was my mother’s sewing kit, filled with spools of thread, needles, hooks, snaps.
Next to the kit was a glass jar filled with buttons, saved from worn out clothes. We used those buttons to play driedel, the sparkly ones from coats were worth more than the simple shirt buttons. 

And then I realized she was born the same year as my mother.

 

No other survivor story affected me as profoundly as hers. It connected something from my life to something from hers.
Every time I sew on a button or stitch up a loose hem, there she is.

Laurie Sosna
San Francisco