First and second cousins in Jewish sources #names

Yonatan Ben-Ari

This may have been brought up before, but in old Jewish sources
"rishon b'rishon" (first to first) refers to siblings so when its
written "Sheni ' B'sheni" (second to second) would refer to first
cousins rather than second cousins.

Shavua tov

Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem

A question about age #general

Ellen Gottfried

Annie married Solomon NADLER in London in 1898. Her age was given as
22, his as 23. A few months later they traveled to New York with a 9
year old girl, Mollie, who was listed as their daughter. The 1900 US
census lists Mollie as their daughter. Her marriage record gives her
parents as Annie and Solomon. Her grave has Malka bat Solomon. How
can I reconcile this information?
Thank you for your help. Ellen GOTTFRIED, Plainview, New York

ViewMate translation request - Russian #translation

Alex Guri


I've posted a vital record and a document, both in Russian, for which
I'd appreciate a translation.
They are on ViewMate at the following addresses:

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
Thank you very much,

Re: Does anyone know any survivors from Krinki/krinik #poland

Max Heffler

I have worked on the Krynki Yizkor Book written by survivors’ landsmanshaft  “Former Residents of Krynki in Israel”:


From: main@... [mailto:main@...] On Behalf Of mur33706 via
Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 12:05 PM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [] Does anyone know any survivors from Krinki/krinik #poland


i would be interested in joining a Krinki "group". Our family's soul seems to have been derived from the Krinki experience, good or bad. i have some experiences i would be willing to share relating to Krinki's history, especially of early 1900's.


Web sites I manage - Personal home page, Greater Houston Jewish Genealogical Society, Woodside Civic Club, Skala, Ukraine KehilalLink, Joniskelis, Lithuania KehilaLink, and pet volunteer project - Yizkor book project:

Looking for "State of Rapena" or "Liabin" in Russian Poland #poland

Cai Maver

I've been searching for a very long time for my ancestor Meyer LEVI, born about 1856 to Meyer LEVI and Emma BOOKNAN. I only have two records that are specifically about Meyer to be able to find where in Europe he came from.
His 1886 marriage record in Hermosillo, Mexico is the one that gives his parents names and says (in Spanish) that he is "originario de Polo Russia, Estado de Rapena." I've uploaded the image in case anyone would like to see for themselves:
Meyer's other record is his 1917 US-Mexico border crossing manifest where his birthplace is difficult to make out, but looks like it says "Liabin, Russian Poland". His nationality is also given as "Russian". That record is uploaded here:
I've searched quite a bit (the JewishGen Gazetteer and Communities databases, old maps, general googling), but I can't find place names that seem like a good fit for either of those places. For the "State of Rapena," the "Urochishche Repino" seems to be the closest fit, but I'm not sure if that was a political division of that time. Likewise, Rypin seems like it could fit, but I don't think it was considered something like a "state" in Meyer's lifetime. There are a number of places that might loosely fit "Liabin", but it's really hard to say and I'm not even sure I'm reading what's on the border crossing record correctly. I'm also aware that there are several languages at play here between what the places may have been called in any given year, Meyer's native language, and the Spanish or English speaking clerks recording these two records.
I've also tried searching for Meyer Levi and/or his parents in various databases, and trying to match up place names that seem like a decent fit, but haven't had any luck. I've nearly given up being able to find out where Meyer came from, but I'm hoping that someone on this list more familiar with place names in "Russian Poland" might have some insight.

Thank you,
Cai Maver

Re: Chasing a Mystery in Philly, and Looking for Puzzle Pieces: Abraham Louis Snader #usa

EdrieAnne Broughton

Ms Lydon,  "I would just say she is a great aunt of your family.  I can't imagine that they check."  Sometimes they do.  It all depends on the rules for privacy in each state.  In Illinois you have to claim direct relationship to the deceased.  I believe in California it's the same and in California I had to have copies of my grandmother's DC to get her mother's DC, plus my father's DC.  At least they accepted xerox copies.                         EdrieAnne Broughton, Vacaville, California

Re: Institutionalized relative - death date and burial location #general


Very interesting. I am trying to track down a relative who we believe was in CISH in 1940 (inmate) and died in 1944. We don't know if we have the right person either, but this is helpful.

Jeff Goldner
Researching Goldner, Singer, Neuman, Braun, Schwartz, Reichfeld (Hungary/Slovakia); Adler, Roth, Ader (Galicia); Soltz/Shultz (Vitebsk, maybe Lithuania)

Re: parents as "cousins" on #dna

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>

"Jim is quite right, it may even be closer than 5th cousin.". I once found who I thought was a 20th cousin, an Osorio in London. We exchanged gedcoms, and I was disappointed to find he was a 5th cousin in another line.

I also have a 3rd cousin, who is also his own 2nd cousin, and my 5th cousin, because his parents were 2nd cousins.  And I have a double 3rd cousin, because my grandfather and his brother married sisters, the boys aunt had married the girls uncle, so they had met before, at least one of the girls knew them. The sister came to the US and went to Missouri where the boys and her sister were, and quickly married the brother.

I also have an 8th ggrandfather who is my 8th ggrandfather 6 times, and a 9th ggrandfather, because his grandchildren and ggreat grandchildren all married each other. And I could go on.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

Searching for connections from Odessa named Eugenia and Polia Goldenberg. #ukraine


Hi ,


Thank you for accepting me into the group.


I am researching family from Odessa, Ukraine, in particularly I am trying to find the married names of my Great Aunts who I believe were born Eugenia and Polia Goldenberg.  Both were born between 1880 and 1905, their parents were Anchel and Golda Goldenberg (Anchel was a Tobacco Merchant in Odessa).  I have one or two photos of them, however I don’t know what their husbands names were.  My Babah apparently received a letter after WWII that told  her of how both of her sisters and their family has died in the Holocaust, I don’t have that letter and without the last names cannot receive any information on them thru the Red Cross. 


I know that one of the sisters received funds from one or more of my Babah’s brothers leading up to the war and possibly during it – the person’s that sent the money were Samuel and Abraham Goldenberg, however they shortened their last name on entry to the USA and Canada to Goldberg.


Any suggestions or assistance would be wonderful.


Thank you.


All the best,

Debra Weissmann




GOLDBERG/GOLDENBERG, Odessa, Ukraine/Russia; New York; California; New

Jersey; Washington; BC, Canada


New York; BC, Canada

TARSHIS, Odessa, Ukraine/Russia; Washington; California; BC, Canada

BLUME/BLOOM, New York, New York (Circa 1907, initials W.C. or ?, probably in

the Jewelry business)

SHENFELD (Dr. Isaac and wife Reba), Odessa, Ukraine/Russia; Atlantic City

and Ventnor, NJ and Florida

LEVENE, Atlantic City, New Jersey and Florida

ROSENFELD/ROSENFELT, Odessa, Ukraine/Russia; France

WOLFMAN, Odessa, Ukraine/Russia; Washington; BC, Canada

POGEROLSKY/POGORELSKY, Odessa, Ukraine/Russia; USA or Canada

SELZER/ZELZER, Odessa, Ukraine/Russia, France (circa WWII)


Re: SAM WEISSBERGER - U.S. Social Security Applications and Claims, 1936-2007 #general

EdrieAnne Broughton

You said; "He was born in Budapest"  If this was a death certificate by an informant or even by Sam himself on numerous documents the town might have been given as Budapest...because that was familiar, while if he was telling the story to someone he might have said, "I was born in the village of _______, near Budapest."  The wife or child or clerk might have only remembered the Budapest part.
EdrieAnne Brougton
Vacaville, California

LODZ Birth Narrative Translation Request #translation

Paulette Bronstein

Dear Genners,
I posted a vital record for which I would like a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following location:
Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
I already have the names, dates, locations.  I would appreciate any additional details from the birth narrative.
Thank you very much.
Paulette Bronstein
Aventura, Florida


GAMBURG - Salakas, Lithuania, Dnipropetrovsk (Ekaterinoslav), Ukraine, Brooklyn, New York
GAMUS - Disna, Belarus, Salakas, Lithuania, Brooklyn, New York
FASS - Lodz, Poland, Brooklyn, New York
ROZENSWEIG - Lodz, Poland, Zlataoust, Russia, Israel
BRONSTEIN/BRONSHTAIN - Ostroh, Ukraine, Zlataoust, Russia, Hadera, Israel, Kfar Saba, Israel
PITTEL, SHAPIR, LEVINE - Salakas, Lithuania

Re: Which website has records of money transfer requests from Russian/Ukranian jews to American relatives? #poland #general #russia

Daniella Alyagon

Theoratically a snapshot would work but it will result in it being very small and hard to read.

Daniella Alyagon




Researching: ALYAGON (Israel), SHOCHETMAN (Kishinev / Letychev / Derazhnya), AGINSKY (Kishinev / Minsk), FAJNZYLBER (Siennica, Poland / Warsaw, Poland), YELIN (Poland), KIEJZMAN (Garwolin, Poland),  SLIWKA (Garwolin, Poland), MANDELBAUM (Janowiec, Poland / Zwolen, Poland / Kozienice, Poland), CUKIER (Janowiec, Poland), RECHTANT (Kozienice, Poland), FALENBOGEN (Lublin, Poland), ROTENSTREICH (Galicia), SELINGER (Galicia), BITTER (Galicia / Bukowina), HISLER (Galicia / Bukowina ), EIFERMAN (Galicia / Bukowina), FROSTIG (Zolkiew, Galicia / Lviv, Galicia), GRANZBAUER (Zolkiew, Galicia), HERMAN (Zolkiew, Galicia), MESSER (Lviv, Galicia / Vienna, Austria), PROJEKT (Lviv, Galicia), STIERER (Lviv, Galicia), ALTMAN (Lviv, Galicia), FRIEDELS (Lviv, Galicia)

Research Libraries Tell Publishers to Drop Their Lawsuit Against The Internet Archive #general

Jan Meisels Allen


In March, I posted about the Internet Archive suspending its waitlists for over the 1.4 million books their lending library by creating a National Emergency Library without joining a waitlist.  Due to the Coronavirus  outbreak public libraries are closed and this facilitates access to read while keeping safe.  Now publishers are suing the Internet Archive saying the  Internet Archive's Open Library and National Emergency Library are "not libraries."  The Association of Research Libraries has put out a statement asking publishers to drop this counter-productive lawsuit (, especially since the Internet Archive has shut down the National Emergency Library.


The Association of Research Libraries stated,Over the past four weeks, IA’s Open Library has circulated more than 400,000 digital books without any user cost—including out-of-copyright works, university press titles, and recent works of academic interest—using controlled digital lending (CDL). CDL is a practice whereby libraries lend temporary digital copies of print books they own in a one-to-one ratio of “loaned to owned,” and where the print copy is removed from circulation while the digital copy is in use.

To read more see:


Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Re: Death in New York City and burial in New Jersey #usa #germany

Diane Jacobs

If you lived in Manhattan or the Bronx, it was just as easy to go to NJ. My grandfather in the 1940s bought plots from
Beth Israel cemetery, Woodbridge NJ and he lived in the Bronx.

Diane Jacobs 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: " via" <>
Date: 7/4/20 7:04 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [] Death in New York City and burial in New Jersey #usa

I recently received a photo of my great grandfather and great uncle’s grave stone from Saddle Ridge, NJ. The dates match my research. My mother is doubting its authenticity because her family lived in New York and were too poor to afford the nice size stone. Does anyone know why New York families were burying their family members in New Jersey?
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey

Re: A question about tattoos and Auschwitz #general #holocaust

Molly Staub

My brother-in-law was at Sachenhausen, later in D P camp Feldafing, and he had numbers on his arm.

Researching Arost/Harast, Berenson, Graffman, Shtofman, Mendelson

Molly Arost Staub

Re: parents as "cousins" on #dna


"Endogomy" (Wikipedia):  Endogamy is the practice of marrying within a specific social group, caste, or ethnic group, rejecting those from others as unsuitable for marriage or other close personal relationships. Endogamy is common in many cultures and ethnic groups.

This makes the DNA match calculations very complicated.  

The well known author Maurice Lamm has an interesting article on Prohibited [Jewish] Marriages at the site that I found very informative:

-Jeffrey Lane, NY

Re: SAM WEISSBERGER - U.S. Social Security Applications and Claims, 1936-2007 #general

Renee Steinig

There is a naturalization record on Family Search for a Sam Weissberger born 18 Oct 1878:

According to the record, he was born in H. Rokito, Hungary, and immigrated in 1906. Googling suggests that this place may now be in Slovakia; I couldn't find it in JewishGen's Gazetteer.

A death record of a Samuel Weissberger who died on 15 July 1946 is also on FamilySearch.  According to the record, his parents were David and Sarah.

Nava, do you know your great-grandmother's birth place? Or her parents' names?


Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills NY

Nava Giron <nava105@...> wrote:‬
... Lately I found in myheritage research part an extract from a record from
: U.S. Social Security Applications and Claims, 1936-2007

It only included the following details:
Name : Sam Weissberger
Type: Claim
Birth: 18th October 1878 Hungary
Claim date: 24th September 1976
Death date: 5th Aug. 1946
Field office address: 11 W42 ST. NYC
Reference no.: 65179247946
Claim type: Death Claim


Re: Does anyone know any survivors from Krinki/krinik #poland


i would be interested in joining a Krinki "group". Our family's soul seems to have been derived from the Krinki experience, good or bad. i have some experiences i would be willing to share relating to Krinki's history, especially of early 1900's.

Re: Does anyone know any survivors from Krinki/krinik #poland


My father's family were also tanners from Krinki. here's a letter i sent to another person who responded to my inquiry.
Hi there, My return mail will take some time as i just had surgery to two damaged fingers so instead of very fast typing, which i am capable of, i will be typing "hunt and peck" style. 
My father's family history dated (without any documentation) to well before the middle of the 19th century in that town's primary industry, leather tanning. Dad was one of the younger sons of eleven  plus 3 daughters with an ultra-orthodox attitude toward Judaism(it seemed he was actually obsessively religious from a wide variety of reports) who knew only the leather whip to use to discipline his children. All of the family worked in the leather factories and it must have been terrible work with all the chemicals being used at the time. Dad's older brothers joined the revolutionaries (whites, not reds) and by 1914, were wanted by the reds or by the tsar's army so they escaped through Germany to ship out to America. three of his sibs became fruit peddlers in northern New Jersey (horse-drawn wagons) and had a wagon waiting for my father when he could escape, too. Gradually, all if his sibs emigrated except for his eldest sib, Frumke, who was, against their father's wishes, finally brought out of Krinki, with her 8 children AND her parents, very late in the 1930's, to board ship for the US. They were refused entry into the US as Roosevelt claimed our immigration quota from eastern Europe (substitute "Jews" for eastern Europe) was full so they were admitted into Canada(Montreal) where they established themselves in various jobs, including a chocolate factory! A couple of years later, mu g'parents were moved tom live with their eldest sons in New Jersey. Within 2 years, both of my g'parents died. It is claimed their death was due to malnutrition as my g'father refused to eat food at his children's tables as it was not fit (adequately kosher) to eat and could not be dissuaded from that idea. As i said earlier, he certainly was religiously obsessed.
Any way, their stories are interesting to few as it is not all that unusual but i and my 6 sibs are products of that history. 
Google Maps does show Krinki as sort of a widening of the road with a few buildings still there. Since the holocaust, i understand there are no records remaining of its residents. those records would have been kept in the schuls.
Our extended family have done their own diaspora with some in Israel and other scattered around the US. Our family name in Krinki was Sturmach; changed somewhere/somehow to Stollman. I hope i have not overly bored you with this superficial photograph of my family.
i hope you are and stay healthy. I am open to further conversations.

Re: Does anyone know any survivors from Krinki/krinik #poland


i sent you an email, a copy of one i sent to another responder to my inquiry about family connections to the town named Krinki. I hope to hear back from you.

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