Date   

Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Dick Plotz
 

Besides, the idea that names had a "correct" spelling was pretty much
confined to the upper classes until well into the twentieth century in
most of Europe and the United States. People spelled their own names
and other people's names however they sounded to them. I've seen 19th
century vital records from *cities* in Germany from the 19th century
in which the same person's name was spelled three different ways, in
the same document! Spelling simply wasn't a salient feature of names,
for most people.

Dick Plotz
Providence RI USA


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:06 PM Jules Levin <ameliede@...> wrote:

The name was not misspelled. Dwoire is perfect Yiddish dialect spelling
of Dvora. If you go to shul where Galitzianers pray, you will hear
"toire" for Torah. "Misspelling" implies that there was some Academy of
Yiddish determining correct spelling in Latin letters. It didn't exist.

Jules Levin

On 7/13/2020 10:52 AM, Jx. Gx. wrote:

Hello Michele Lock.

Your account about Abram and Rose Schiffman reminded me about a
similar incident involving my ggm, Shulieh Devorah Epstein, nee Zalman.

On the ship manifest her given name is spelled "Dwoire," an obvious
phonetic misspelling of Devorah.


Who buried the deceased after Liberation in the Netherlands #holocaust

akestenbaum@...
 

I recently came upon a photo of a gravestone for my husband's grandfather in the Netherlands which I don't believe anybody in his family knew about.  He died in Amsterdam on April 5, 1945 but the Netherlands wasn't liberated until May 5, 1945.  The only other relative I have found that would have been with him was his wife who died a few years later and I have no record of where she is interned, if at all.  My mother-in-law was an only child and had been sent to America at a much earlier date and sadly was never able to see or speak to them again.  Hence this finding was quite a surprise. 

I have attached a picture of the gravestone as well as the cemetery.  As I doubt he would have been buried before the end of the war, especially in a Jewish cemetery, where would the bodies have been before burial, who would have buried him and when?  I highly suspect it would have been one of the relief agencies but no idea as to whom would have been so kind to do so.  

Anne Kestenbaum
Toronto


Simcha Goldberg from Mielic, his daughter Reizel Brand or Bracha Tager from Hanover Germany #germany

Genealogy Researcher
 

I am researching for any information possible on "Simcha Goldberg" from the town Mielic (son of "Moshe Menachem Goldberg").
He had two daughters. Reizel (married to David Brand) & Bracha (married to Peretz Tager), which both lived in Hanover Germany before the 2nd world war.
 
Simcha Goldberg married to "Raca". I am researching who were the parents of Raca???
 
Thank You!
Moses Adler
 


Re: Gospitalna Street in Minsk #belarus

Kris Murawski
 

Thiere is a website  (in Russian), https://minsk-old-new.com/life/pereimenovaniya/tablica-pereimenovaniya-ulic, which lists all renamed streets In Minsk, with names in 1911 and in 1989. The Gospitalnaya ulitsa (Hospital Street), was renamed to Kommunisticheskaya ulitsa (Communist Street). (There were also, in 1911, a Hospital Lane 1 and Hospital Lane 2.)
The current name of Communist Street in Minsk in the Belorusan language is Kamunistichnaya (https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Список_улиц_Минска).
 


Re: Questions about Document in Germany #germany

Ernst-Peter Winter
 

I think that Eva Lawrence is right when she links the
creation of the document with a person's personal interest
in their origin, their ancestors. Perhaps someone here has
the opportunity to obtain this information before emigrating
from Germany. In view of the developments in Germany, the
probability of receiving this information later was low.

The "Zivilstandsregister der Juden" had to be kept by the
mayor's offices in the part of the Grand Duchy of Hesse on
the right bank of the Rhine since about 1810 and contained
births, marriages and deaths of the Jewish population.

For Griesheim, some registers, so-called "Judenmatrikel",
are already available as digital copies in the Hessian State
Archive:
<https://arcinsys.hessen.de/arcinsys/llist?nodeid=s140375&page=1&reload=true&sorting=41>

The document mentioned above was probably made by the
registry office of the municipality and the mayor confirmed
the correctness of the data. Since Griesheim was and is an
independent municipality, the city administration of the
city of Darmstadt has nothing to do with it.

The Nazis requested the documents for their murderous
business through official channels directly from the
authorities. The documents would never have come into the
possession of private individuals. It never became known to
me that people had to prove their Jewish descent -
conversely, proof that they did _not_ come from Jewish
ancestors had to be provided.


Ernst-Peter (Winter), Münster (Hessen)
just 25 km east of Griesheim near Darmstadt


Re: Questions about Document in Germany #germany

Joachim Mugdan
 

Susan Miller had questions about a document entitled “Auszüge aus dem Registern der Juden der Gemeinde Griesheim Kr. Darmstadt” that concludes with “Die Richtigkeit des Auszugs wird bescheinigt. ... 27. Juli 1938. Der Bürgermeister”.

When the Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, they excluded “non-Aryans” from many positions (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_paragraph). The Nuremberg laws of 1935 (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws) introduced a finer distinction between “full Jews” (with 3 or 4 Jewish grandparents), “half Jews” (with 2 Jewish grandparents), “quarter Jews” (with 1 Jewish grandparent) and people “of German or related blood” (with 0 Jewish grandparents). Therefore, everyone had to apply for birth and marriage records of their parents and grandparents in order to prove their status (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_certificate). Presumably, the document Susan asked about was requested by a member of her family in this connection. The information in the records was usually supplied in the form of a typed “extract” (“Auszug”, plural “Auszüge”) from the registers, and an official (in this case the mayor, “Bürgermeister”) had to confirm that it was correct (“Die Richtigkeit des Auszugs wird bescheinigt”).

Eva Lawrence was surprised that this document “still exists, and wasn't destroyed by its owner to avoid the post-war Nazi hunt”. Since it consisted of ordinary birth and marriage records (mostly from long before the Nazi period), there was no reason to destroy it. On the contrary: In many cases, the original registers were lost so that these extracts became the only documentary evidence proving a person’s ancestry. Eva is right that “genealogy was a popular pastime ... in the  1930s”, and some genealogists did go to the trouble of requesting birth, marriage or death records from record offices (“Standesamt”) or archives, but that was a costly hobby and typically concerned relatives other than the parents and grandparents. The types of records (only birth and marriage or also death) and the people named in them should show what the purpose of the document in question was.

--

Joachim Mugdan

Basel, Switzerland

JGFF Researcher 5749

 


--

--

Joachim Mugdan

Basel, Switzerland

JGFF Researcher 5749

 


Re: How to determine Warsaw street address? #warsaw

Krzysztof Witaszek
 

Hello,

There is an interesting site for Warsaw that shows old street photographs.  

http://www.warszawa1939.pl

It's only in Polish, but try to use it. Type the street (or with the pre-war house number)  in the field „wyszukaj” and you will receive  several places on the street that have their photo.

Or use the „fotoplan” to check on the map which houses have their photo. Marked green color are houses that survived to this day, red houses are those that were destroyed, but have their photo.

If you need assistance please write.

 

"However, after the Shoah, many street locations were changed"  

To be precise, the houses in the Warsaw Ghetto were totally demolished after the Ghetto uprising in 1943.

The rest of Warsaw was badly destroyed in the Warsaw uprising in 1944 and after. But the houses on Zielna street that survived the war were demolished only  in 1950ies to make a place for the ugly Stalin's Palace and so the house numbers have changed too.

Regards 

Krzysztof Witaszek

Lublin


Tranlsation of Hebrew on four tomb stones in Germany #translation

r.d.oppenheimer@...
 

I would appreciate help translating these four tombstones from Hebrew into English. They are for my 4 x  and 5 x grandparents.
Please respond privately to me at R.D.Oppenheimer at gmail.com
Thank you.


Re: Gospitalna Street in Minsk #belarus

Dr.Josef ASH
 

I have found the Gospitalnaya str on the map of the modern Minsk. Big (military) Hospital stands on it. I think it has existed in 1913 too (if your Gf wrote...)
Google showed me the map in Russian.
Good luck!


The Galitzianer: Call for Papers #galicia #general

Gesher Galicia SIG
 

Gesher Galicia’s journal, the Galitzianer, invites members and non-members of Gesher Galicia to submit articles with a clear connection to Jewish life in Austrian Galicia (1772–1918). Submissions can also relate to Jewish life in the territory of former Galicia during the interwar period and the Holocaust. 

We welcome articles about Jewish history, culture and family life in Galicia, as well as discussions of heritage sites and archival records. While we are interested in stories from all parts of Galicia, we are particularly seeking submissions on western Galician towns because they are harder to come by. 

Prior to submitting an article, please contact me at submissions@... with a brief description of your proposal. Once accepted, all articles undergo editorial review and revisions to make sure they conform to the style and standards of the journal. We will also consider articles you have previously written, as well as excerpts from books or manuscripts you have authored, assuming you obtain the necessary reprint permission and make sure the submission fits within our 2500-word-count recommendation. 

For other information about the Galitzianer, including instructions for authors, please feel free to contact me or to consult our website at www.geshergalicia.org/the-galitzianer/

Thank you, 

Jodi G. Benjamin
Editor, The Galitzianer
Gesher Galicia


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Send all inquiries to submissions@...
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Re: navy emblem on gravestone? #general

David Barrett
 

A feather is a quill – a writing instrument – and may signify the status of a naval clerk

 

David Barrett


Double Surname LIFSHITS OZERSKY #names

Beth Galleto
 

A while ago there was some mention of double surnames in this discussion group. I am curious about the double surname LIFSHITS OZERSKY. It has come up in family lists (tax censuses) from 1882 in Mglin and Starodub (formerly in the Chernigov gubernia, Russia). It is not a patronymic. The people listed with this surname have patronymics in addition to the double surname. The names LIFSHITS and OZERSKY also appear separately. Is anyone familiar with this double name or know anything about it?


Re: Siegel Markofsky Connection #poland #yizkorbooks #names

Annette Weiss
 

Here's a shot in the dark ... my maternal grandmother was Dora Siegel from Seirijai, which is a shtetl in the Suwalki region.  She emigrated to NYC in 1905, and married my grandfather Abraham Teiksler in 1910.  Dor's paarents were Avraham Moshe Siegel and Sylvia Katz.  Does any of this ring a bell?  I should also mention that the name Lena runs in our family.


Re: Finding records in Alexandria, Egypt? #general

Rose Feldman
 

Try this website.


Rose Feldman
Israel Genealogy Research Association
Winner of 2017 IAJGS Award for Volunteer of the Year  
http://genealogy.org.il
http:/facebook.com/israelgenealogy

Help us index more records at http://igra.csindexing.com

Keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general and Jewish and Israeli roots in particular with http://twitter.com/JewDataGenGirl


--
Rose Feldman
Israel Genealogy Research Association
Winner of 2017 IAJGS Award for Volunteer of the Year  
http://genealogy.org.il
http:/facebook.com/israelgenealogy


Re: Daughter of Saul Ben Judah (Sir Saul Wahl) Wahl Katzenellenbogen #names

paveanyu@...
 

Dear Mr. Cherson                                                                                                 13th July 2020

My name is Veronika Pachtinger--my mother was a nee Biderman/Biederman --her father--Herman/Hersl/Zvi Biderman 's  (D.O.B.) 4th May 1881 )  parents were Suri-Necha/Sali/Rosalia Wohl/Wahl--born on the 2nd May 1855 in Bettendorf?--Rosalia/Suri-Necha Wahl/Wohl's father was Tobias/Tuvia WAHL/Wohl  a direct Descendant of Saul Wahl

Rosalia/Suri-Necha Wahl/Wohl's  ( D.O.B. 2nd May 1855--31st October 1929)   husband was Moishe Biderman ( Petirah 3rd August 1911) --Moishe Biderman's father was Mordechai Biderman --They had 13 children and they lived in Hanusovce Nad Toplou/Tapoly-Hannusfalve
Mioshe Biderman is buried in Hanusovce Nad Toplou.--prior to Hanusovce--They may have lived in Presov?  or Radvany/Radvanyka

If I am not mistaken Tobias/Tuvia Wahl/Wohl may have been married ----before He married Rosalia/Suri-Necha Wahl/Wohl's mother ?--- more than once

I wonder, if you can help any way, I have a lot of missing links--like who was the mother of Rosalia/Suri-Necha Wohl/Wahl? 

I am aware that Rosalia/Suri necha Wohl/Wahl  may have had two brother's Sloime Dovid Wahl/Wohl who may have married a nee Preiss/Preisz  and
Izsak Wahl/Wohl---I do not know if Izsak married , if yes whom?

Please, if you have any info, I would be more than indepted.

Kind regards
Veronika Pachtinger


Re: Research individuals in France #france

deborah.shindell@...
 

Hi Ari,

Thanks for your offer. I have two people who I would like to research:
1) This man emigrated to France from Poland before 1927:
Michal (Michel) Besserglik
born October 17, 1907 in Kalisz, Poland
died in France, between 1939 and 1945.
Parents: Chanoch and Miriam (born Szlezinger) Besserglik
I would like to know if he married and had children.
2) Carol Beserglik: Could this man be Michal's son? Carol's wife is Liba Beserglik, daughter Marcelle Pilicer

Thanks for your help,

Deborah Shindell



Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" Dwoire - #names #usa #general

Linda Cantor
 

I am currently transcribing an Index book from a Galician town from the years that it was part of Poland.  And Dwoire, a common name, is the spelling that is used.  I have not yet seen Devora or Devorah or Debora, etc.  So lets not make assumptions about things like spelling. 

Linda Cantor


Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Jules Levin
 

The name was not misspelled.  Dwoire is perfect Yiddish dialect spelling
of Dvora.  If you go to shul where Galitzianers pray, you will hear
"toire" for Torah.  "Misspelling" implies that there was some Academy of
Yiddish determining correct spelling in Latin letters.  It didn't exist.

Jules Levin


On 7/13/2020 10:52 AM, Jx. Gx. wrote:
Hello Michele Lock.

Your account about Abram and Rose Schiffman reminded me about a
similar incident involving my ggm, Shulieh Devorah Epstein, nee Zalman.

On the ship manifest her given name is spelled "Dwoire," an obvious
phonetic misspelling of Devorah.  Her ticket was purchased in New York
by her husband. The name Devorah is not an unusual or difficult to
spell so its hard to understand how the steamship ticket agent could
have misspelled her name so badly. The only two logical explanations I
can come up with are (1) her husband spelled her name incorrectly on
the ticket application and handed it to the agent who copied it
exactly the way it was spelled on the application, or (2) her given
name was actually spelled correctly on the ticket, but at the port of
embarkation when she was asked her last name and first name the
official may have heard her say what sounded like, "Dwoire" and made
the spelling change that showed up on the final manifest. We can't
overlook the fact that our ancestors spoke with a thick
Yiddish/Eastern European accent.

     Searching for:
EPSTEIN, Abraham (Slutsk, Russia)
EPSTEIN, Phillip (Slutsk),
ZALMAN, Azriel (Russia)
SEGNER/SEGNOR, Eve
PLOTKA, Zelig (Poland)
HOLAND, Ephraim Fishel
HOLAND, Heneh Yuteh
PLOTKIN, Sarah


Re: "His name was changed at Ellis Island" #names

Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

No mistake was made.  
Dwoire is a Yiddish spelling of Devorah.  Yiddish was the common languagege of most of Eastern Europe’s Jews. Proncunciation differed depending on region.  But in all cases, the w is pronounced “V”, and in German and Yiddish a final e is pronounced “eh”.    Think of the more common Rivke, also spelled Rifke, or with a final a.

Some Dwoire’s used Deborah / Devorah in the US while others used Dora, Doris, Mabel, Scarlet or whatever they wanted. 

Googling Dwoire brings up the following women being researched:
    Dwoire Zimmerman, Dwoire Tremel,  Dvoire Lebedow, Dwoire Mischkin, Dwoire Flitman,
    Dwoire Kleinman, Dwoire Wishnapolsky, Dwoire Kirsch,  Dwoire Pastanak,  

as well as a woman with that name listed as a Shoah victim and another Dwoire’s naturalization record.

Jewish Gen’s databases hold the late Prof Easterson’s GIVEN NAMES DATA BASE PROJECT.  I hope that it will be up and fully functioning soon.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ


On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:52 AM, Jx. Gx. <mrme1914@...> wrote:
On the ship manifest her given name is spelled "Dwoire," an obvious phonetic misspelling of Devorah.  Her ticket was purchased in New York by her husband. The name Devorah is not an unusual or difficult to spell so its hard to understand how the steamship ticket agent could have misspelled her name so badly.

The only two logical explanations I can come up with are (1) her husband spelled her name incorrectly on the ticket application and handed it to the agent who copied it exactly the way it was spelled on the application, or (2) her given name was actually spelled correctly on the ticket, but at the port of embarkation when she was asked her last name and first name the official may have heard her say what sounded like, "Dwoire" and made the spelling change that showed up on the final manifest. We can't overlook the fact that our ancestors spoke with a thick Yiddish/Eastern European accent.


Rabbi Aharon WEINSTEIN from Rosulno #rabbinic #galicia

ilisa
 

Hello, I am trying to verify info about one of my paternal great-great grandfathers. I have been told by elder family members that he was a rabbi who was so important that he made decisions of Jewish law for his community. It is also claimed that his fathers before him were all rabbis. He would have been alive during the early to mid 19th century. This intrigues me and I would like to know how to go about finding documentation which proves these statements. I have searched to no avail for the information where ever I can: Jewish gen family search, yad vasham, Ancestry (I don’t have international access) etc.  Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you in advance. 

ilisa Goldstein Calderon 
Rosulno 
Minsk
vasyl’kov
Grodno