Re: Deportation from U.S. ports back to Eastern Europe #general

Sherri Bobish


Can you clarify some things about Miksa HIRSCHFELD's wife and two daughters?

Do you mean you do not know their first names, or that you do not know their surname because Miksa's wife re-married?

Did Miksa's wife and two daughters visit your family from abroad, or did they live in the U.S. at the time of their visit around 1930?


Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ

Ida Friedman/ Herman and Perl Katz #holocaust

Stuart Kaufer

Ida Friedman was the daughter of my maternal Great Uncle David Friedman who was murdered in Auschwitz.  The family lived in Nagytarna.  Ida contacted the family in 1949 and that is the last we heard of her.  She was sent to Stuthof KL and liberated there.   I do not know if she subsequently married or had children.  I have tried the usual avenues but nothing since 1949.   In the chance that this list serve may yield some information I am posting this and requesting information about her niece, Perl Katz.   Herman and Perl Katz lived in Munkacs, survived the war and emigrated to Israel.   I was in touch with them in the 60's when they were still in Munkacs, they had 3 sons, one of whom died.   One son's name was Friedrich.  Perhaps someone on the list knows of them or their children,  Perl and Herman are presumably dead as they were middle aged when I was in touch with them.   Thank you.

Re: What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Diane Jacobs

For many years if was known by New Yorkers S the rag business.

Diane Jacobs 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Halpern <mark@...>
Date: 7/25/20 10:17 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Cc: Phil Karlin <philk@...>
Subject: Re: [] What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Many Jewish immigrants during that period took jobs as a cutter. My father's first job was as a cutter in 1921. A cutter is a person who cuts fabric. I would refer to this business as the "Shmatah" or clothing business. 

Mark Halpern


On 2020-07-25 9:55 am, Phil Karlin wrote:

An ancestor was killed in a work-related accident in 1894, in New York City. I can't find anything specific about the accident, but city directories & his children's birth records give his occupation as "Cutter."
Anyone know what that is? What type of business would employ such a person? How might it be dangerous?

Phil K.

Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey

Re: mtDNA matches #dna


For the most part, you would likely not be able to assume this match's ancestors were your *direct ancestors* even along the direct female line that is traced by mtdna. The issue is that the common ancestor is much more likely to be further back than almost anyone can trace.  They would indeed be cousins, and some of them could be direct ancestors, but you can't assume so. 

Re: What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Hilary Henkin

A cutter is more than someone who just cuts fabric.  When I did theatre
(props) in my prior career, the Cutter translated what the designer
sketched, into actual pattern pieces, and designed how to assemble those
pieces to create what the designer wanted.

Regular workers would cut out the fabric, sew/please, gather, etc.

This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.

Re: mtDNA matches #dna


Rollie Stamps
JewishGen ID#51898

I am not an expert on the subject, so I contacted FamilyTreeDNA, due to your issue on the mtDNA sequence. This is their reply :

Thanks for contacting FamilyTreeDNA. At the full sequence level, even an exact match to your DNA (so a match with a genetic distance of zero) would likely share a common ancestor with you on your direct maternal line anywhere within the last 5-16 generations, or 125 to 400 years or so. When you start looking at matches with differences (genetic distance of 1, 2, or 3), those common ancestors can be even further back in time. Once you're looking at matches that are only at the HVR1 and HVR2 levels, it's possible that you could share a common ancestor with those matches anywhere within the last 1000 years. 

Depending on the extensiveness of your tree and your genealogy research, it's possible that your common ancestor could be further back than you have traced your genealogy.

The article I've linked below has a ton of great tips for getting the most out of your mtDNA matches and finding your common ancestor with them. I strongly recommend reading through it.

Hope this helps,


Re: What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Diane Jacobs

A cutter is usually in the garment business.

Also if your Karlin family was from Belarus 
And possibly originally Karlinsky, we should talk further. 

Diane Jacobs 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Phil Karlin <philk@...>
Date: 7/25/20 9:55 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Subject: [] What's a Cutter? #usa #general

An ancestor was killed in a work-related accident in 1894, in New York City. I can't find anything specific about the accident, but city directories & his children's birth records give his occupation as "Cutter."
Anyone know what that is? What type of business would employ such a person? How might it be dangerous?

Phil K.
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey

Re: mtDNA matches #dna

Todd Leavitt

mtDNA certainly serves a purpose, but one must be cautious about reaching any conclusions regarding its actual value. My 92 year old mother belongs to haplogroup K1a1b1a, likely the most common group for Ashkenazi Jews. On FTDNA, she has over 425 0-step (i.e. no mutations present) matches! Compare that to my wife (who also turned out to be my cousin, sharing 85 cMs of DNA, probably on our maternal lines) who belongs to haplogroup H3p, and has only 14 0-step matches. Ultimately, both of them will trace back to Ancestral Eve. 

Re: What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Sam Wolff

In the movie "Breaking Away" (a great sports movie, if you don't know it- check it out), a cutter was a pejorative term for the local Indiana students on campus at Indiana University, named after those who worked in the neighboring quarries. But more likely, it signifies somebody who worked in the garment industry, as others have responded.

Re: What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>

The person cuts things. In NYC, usually he cuts fabric for sewing.  In Polish records, he often cuts grain (like kasha).
Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

Re: Looking for 19thC marriage record in NYC(?) #usa #austria-czech

Sherri Bobish

Hi Barbara,

NYC did not enforce the filing of marriages until circa 1900. It is very possible that a rabbi married them and never filed any civil paperwork.

I searched here:

I used the broadest searches possible and found nothing.

Another possibility is that they married somewhere other than where you suppose they did.


Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ

Re: Kansas City Lithuania Jews #lithuania #usa

Lee Hover

Altho not a Litvak, my paternal GF came in through Galveston and went to KC (my maternal side is Litvak--the name is LAP(P)IN).

Seeking info. on passage from Europe to Brazil circa 1913/1914 #russia #belarus

Myrna Waters


My ggparents and their 8 youngest children left the town of Puchovichi, Russia in either late 1913 or early 1914 on a journey to Brazil where they had been offered land and an opportunity to settle.( Puchovichi was about 35 mi. SE of Minsk.) One of my great uncles made a recording of his memories of this journey.  He was around 8 yrs of age at the time and in his 80's when he recorded this.   He did not record the names of the port or the ship they traveled on.  I believe there were other villagers on the same voyage, possibly even relatives as he said an agent came to the town and told the Jewish people that there was an organization that wanted to make a Jewish settlement there and they would have free land and a home,etc.  (Possibly this was one of the Baron Hirsh farming settlements?)   
I believe they left from either Hamburg or Bremen (as they returned to Hamburg from Brazil several months later and again I have no records of this passage.)
My Great Uncle said they left Russia during a blizzard and took a train to Germany.  He said his father had a passport.  He said it was a steerage boat, not a passenger boat, if that helps narrow the possibilities.  He said the boat made several stops at various ports and took cargo on and off, plus people from various countries came onto the boat.  He remembers one port where many Italian people came onboard.  He said they arrived at Ameriga? (not sure if this spelling or name place is correct) and then they got on a train for possibly 2 days until they arrived at (Lubinengo?) In english it was called Flower Island?  From there they took a train again and finally arrived at their destination.  It was rainy season in Brazil, the baby sister died and they had to bury her in a cemetery far away from the holding area they were living in.   My ggfather then went to the area where the settlement was to be built.  At this point the immigrants could decide to return to Germany if they did not find this to be suitable for them and that is when my ggfather decided to return to Germany. 
I do know they arrived in Hamburg because they then left Hamburg on April 18, 1914  on the S/S President Grant and arrived in NY on April 30, 1914.

If anyone has any ideas about where any of these records might be found, please respond.  I do not know how the family name was spelled in Russia.
As with most names I have seen it spelled many ways from the Ellis Island manifests.   My ggfather had been to the USA twice before bringing his older boys to the USA, including my grandfather and returning to Russia afterwards.  There were 3 of them already in the USA when he finally brought over the rest of his family.   Here are various spellings of our family name:  Zlodnik, Zlotnick, Slotnik, Slotnick, Slatnick.   My ggfather was Judel, Jude and my ggmother was Tania, Toni, Tone.  

Thank you for your assistance. 

Myrna (Slatnick) Waters

Researching:  SLEPACK (or similar)Belarus/Bialystok area; SLATNICK/SLOTNIK (or similar) Minsk/Puchovichi area of Russia; KURZMANN JasLo, Poland and Drohobych, Ukraine area (both formerly in what was the Galician area of Austria prior to WWI), KURTZMAN in NY/Bronx and NJ/Newark from 1914, SADOWSKY (or similar) from Belarus area of Russia/Bialystok area 19th century to Newark,NJ 1905 or after.

Re: What's a Cutter? #usa #general

Phil Karlin

Thanks everyone.
Does it make sense that someone could be killed in a work-related accident? I could see injured, but killed?
Maybe it was not work related.

Nograd - Ludany, birth records KLEIN in 1880s #hungary


I'm looking for Jewish synagogue birth records pre civil registration for Ludany in Nograd, specifically the Klein family there, for the children of David Klein and Karolina Klein (I think they were both born Kleins), one of their children was Margit or Maria born in February 1887. My hunting has drawn a blank, I would be so grateful if anyone knows how to locate them. Very many thanks!

Re: Deportation from U.S. ports back to Eastern Europe #general


My grandmother was coughing upon arrival at Ellis Island.  Authorities feared TB.  She was not allowed entry.  Her name was crossed out from the manifest.  The arrival vessel, SS Mt. Clay, showed two passengers on board during the return trip to Hamburg.  Those two passengers where my grandmother and my great uncle, who was accompanying my underage grandmother during the voyage back to the old country.  A few months later, my great uncle had obtained passage on another vessel, and he and my grandmother returned to the U.S.  Her cough had cleared.  She was admitted into the country.  And therefore, I exist.  Had she stayed in the old country, she probably would have perished in/near Nowogrudek.

Ken Domeshek

Damesek, Kartorzynski, Sinienski, Braverman.

Re: military notebook #bessarabia


I have one for my great grandfather and it is about 15 pages or so with entries about all of his service time. It included a marriage that I did not know about. I have attached a scan of the cover of the booklet. 
Larry Bassist
Springville, Utah

looking for relatives of Miller and Zangier families in Fargo, North Dakota,L originally from Grojec, Poland. #usa #latinamerica #poland


Looking for descendants of Matel (possibly Matla) Zanger Miller (1883-1952) and husband Jacob Miller. Her headstone is in the Jewish cemetery of the synagogue in Fargo but I do not know where Jacob's is. They had two sons: Abraham and Israel. All of them were born in Grojec, Poland and came to Fargo, North Dakota in 1911 and 1920. Strange enough there are no records of the family during the census' of 1930 or 1940.
My maternal grandparents were Moshe Zangier and Zisel Miller, both of them born in Grojec, Poland, the same town that Matel Zanger and Jacob Miller came from. My maternal grandparents moved in 1922-1925 to an agricultural colony of the Jewish Colonization Association in Argentina, founded by Baron Hirsch. Because of the time, similar situations and family names I think the families in Fargo, ND and Argentina may be related.

Angel Kosfiszer
Richardson, Texas

Re: Other names for Yitzchak? #names


Your last name is interesting to me.  My name Malakoff/Malakhov (Малакхов) comes from the Hebrew maloch (מלאך) which means angel. Maybe we are
related :).  Alternative version of the name was Malachowsky which sounds more Polish.
Bob Malakoff
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Help me find 1915 birth record from Harsány, Hungary #hungary


Unfortunately, like for most of what was Borsod county, the civil registers were only filmed up to 1908 from Harsány ( The other obstacle is that the current privacy law is so insanely badly written that archives are using 130 years as the cutoff for birth records, just so they don't inadvertently expose themselves to prosecution. Given that civil registration only started 125 years ago, one result of this is that civil birth records are not available at all from archives or registry offices. If you can show that you're direct family and that the person is deceased, then you can request an extract, but it's the classic chicken-and-egg: they won't do research for you, so you need to already know where/when the event happened in order to get the extract that might tell you where/when it happened.

I assume you've already tried the registry office in Harsány? I don't know what to suggest beyond that. I haven't actually interacted with a registry office in decades, so I don't really know what the current setup and situation is.

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