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Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

Jesse Springer
 

Unfortunately we don't have that information from my dad's cousins on paternal side. My dad's cousin on maternal side tested and report no Ashkenazi results, so we concluded it had to be his father's side. Certainly would be helpful if we could obtain testing from paternal cousins though! My dad closely resembles his father and his paternal uncles, and so it seems highly unlikely that either my father or my grandfather were adopted. Also my father's nephew looks very much like my dad (more so than my dad's brother who is the father) and also resembles my grandmother in many ways, so that adds even more doubt to an adoption theory. 


On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:54 AM Paul Chirlin <pjchirlin@...> wrote:
Do all descendants of your great-grandfather all have similar Jewish DNA markers?  If they are only seen in one of his children's line it suggests differing parentage.   Is your father not DNA related to a known descendant?  
Paul


Re: Deciphering Manifest -- "Gachef"? #romania

Molly Staub
 

I had something similar happen regarding my father’s immigration. The family members wrote ”Servio,” which I couldn’t find. The late,  very knowledgeable Phyllis Kramer told me that immigrants sometimes wrote the name of the inn where they had stayed the night before. I later learned it apparently was another stop on their route to America.

 

Happy hunting,

 

Molly Arost Staub

E-mail staubmolly@...

 


Re: Lost relatives in New York #usa

Moishe Miller
 

Carol,
I have a twofold suggestion:
 
  • share the manifest for the 1907 arrival. It most likely gives name, relationship and address of a relative in the "old country" and the same for their destination in the US
  • use the https://www.familysearch.org/search/ website to search for marriages in New York, where the parent's name start with 
 
I looked up Kreine's arrival in 1907. It is the old manifest style, so there is no "old country" name/address. But, it does say she was going to her brother, Wolf Berkowsky, c/o Mr Salamon, at 82 East Broadway, in Manhattan. This sounds like it might be what you call, "Our known Kreine and Wolf".    
 
For anyone else that want a look, the 1907 ship manifest is here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JXXW-LY3
 
 
BTW, using sounds like on Stephen Morse's website, there is another arrival you might want to look at:
Burkowska, Karianna arriving in 1903, age 17, from Viczing. (SHIP NAME Rotterdam, ARRIVAL DATE February 14th, 1903, PORT OF DEPARTURE Rotterdam, Holland, line 9 of frame 288)
 
Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
JGFF # 3391


Maiden name of Great Grandmother #ukraine

Raylene Gurewich
 

I'm trying to find out the maiden name of my paternal great-grandmother who immigrated to Palestine from Proskurov (Khmelnytskyi) in 1925 with my Great Grandfather, Ya'acov Helfman and three of her sons, Israel, Nachman, and Moshe. Her first name was Chaya and she and Ya'acov had a small store in Tel Aviv/Yafo area. Chaya was born in 1868 and Ya'acov in 1865 according to census and voting records I found on the IGRA website.
Two of their sons (Samuel and Benjamin) immigrated to the U.S. Samuel settled in Texas and Benjamin married in New York and then moved to Michigan. I have located Benjamin's marriage certificate where he has the name of his mother as Chaika Viraly (Viraty), but that name cannot be verified in my research. Other U.S. documents I found didn't list a mother's maiden name at all for both brothers.
I'm hoping to find out her maiden name in Ukrainian documents, but don't have a clue where to look?


Seeking (Cohen) Bessie antecedents of Rosina Lhévinne (Netherlands) #russia

Judith Berlowitz
 

A friend from the Bessie family has asked me if I could connect the father of the immortal pianist Rosina Lhévinne, "Jacques" Bessie, with my friend's family, known diamond merchants in the Netherlands - surname Cohen Bessie. All I have been able to find is that "Jacques" was born about 1844, probably in Amsterdam, studied for a time at the Sorbonne, and settled in Russia where he married Maria Katch (or Katz), who died fairly young. Their daughter Sophie was born in 1873 and daughter Rosina in 1880. Jacques's information appears on ships' manifests with his children and grandchildren in their travels to various countries, including the US. I have searched Dutch sites such as WieWasWie, using the given name "Jacob" but have not found anything conclusive, except for a tantalizing possibility: https://www.wiewaswie.nl/nl/detail/37555239. Will appreciate any leads.
Judith Berlowitz, San Francisco
PS: Why no #netherlands tag?
 
WIEWASWIE.NL


Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

Jesse Springer
 

Thanks Adam! I appreciate you sharing your experience and insight with me. My brother took an AncestryDNA and it reported ~16% Ashkenazi. Two sister took 23andMe and it reported ~16% for one and ~8% for the other. So we are still fairly confident there was an Ashkenazi ancestor based on these reports. As far as how long ago this was or how accurate these percentage guesses are, we'll never be quite certain unless we find out who was Ashkenazi in our family tree. 


On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 9:29 AM Adam Turner <adam.d.turner@...> wrote:
I am not familiar with MorleyDNA, and so I can't comment on how it is predicting your father's haplogroup based on his autosomal data. But I would be very wary about taking MyHeritageDNA's ethnicity analysis at face value, even with a couple of non-randomly-selected Jewish DNA matches as "corroboration."

My ethnicity as MHDNA estimates it is 88% Ashkenazi Jewish, 7% Finnish, and 5% "West Asian - Mizrahi Jewish." The same data run through AncestryDNA, which has a much larger user base to draw on for its reference samples, comes out as 100% "European Jewish."

My late grandfather's DNA test has even bigger discrepancies: per AncestryDNA, he is 99% European Jewish and 1% non-Jewish Eastern European. per MHDNA, he is...75% Ashkenazi, 15% "Italian", 1% Baltic, and 8% Sephardic Jewish. It makes very little sense to me how my grandfather could supposedly have 23% Southern European ancestry, yet my own DNA actually ended up with zero of whatever markers are supposedly typical of these ethnic groups. Much more likely to me is that MHDNA's ethnicity analysis isn't worth the pixels it's printed on, and whatever reference samples they are using to power this feature of the product are probably small enough that lots of customers' results end up with quite a bit of nonsense.


Re: Deportation from U.S. ports back to Eastern Europe #general

Sherri Bobish
 


Judi,

I see they landed on April 6, 1940.  The 1940 U.S. census was April 1st.  If they had arrived a few days earlier than you might find them on the census. 

I'm glad that these two girls were able to make it to safety.

I see an Alex HIRSCHFELD on the 1940 census at 3055 33rd.  Wife Ethel, children Vivian and Pearl.  Is this the right family?  If so, than the girls you found arriving on April 6th are the ones you have been searching for.

Regards,

Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ


Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

Jesse Springer
 

"Keep in mind that all admixture reports from all companies are still at the level of "for entertainment value only" -- and MyHeritage is the absolute clown of the bunch. They predict ancestry that is ridiculously false for basically everyone. (For me, it's Swedish; for my cousin, it's British Isles. Both of us actually have all of our ancestors squarely in the Carpathian Basin.)

Ashkenazi genetics is endogamous enough that it's pretty confidently identifiable, even by MyHeritage, but the percentages they report can be wildly different from other companies. When it comes to something like "West Asian", all bets are off: neither the reference populations nor the customer base have even remotely enough representatives from this area to come to any definitive conclusions.

What it comes down to is that despite what all the DNA companies would have you believe, geography is not genetic.

Julia"

Julia, thanks for your input! That's very  insightful. As far as confidence in the Ashkenazi DNA goes, it might help to know that my brother took an AncestryDNA test and it reported an estimated 16% Ashkenazi, while my two sisters took 23andMe and it reported 16% Ashkenazi for one sister, and 8% for the other. I'm not sure how accurate the percentages go, but that many people in my family all getting similar Ashkenazi results does seem to indicate there was an Ashkenazi ancestor. 

I took a MyHeritage test and my Ashkenazi estimate was 6.6%. It also reported an estimated 9% North African & 2.9% West Asian.... 

When I filter DNA matches to show people in the database whose results include "North African," one of the closest matches based on segment length is a man named Avi Cohen, and there is another with a name written in Hebrew. These are the same individuals that are matched to my father's account when using the "West Asian" filter, so I chalked up my "North African" to be the same as the "West Asian" category that they estimated in my father's report. And since the names of the DNA segment matches are Avi Cohen and another in Hebrew, we assume it's from a common Jewish ancestor. 

Anyways... you're right, though. These tests are not always accurate so it's hard to conclude anything with certainty.  

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 11:53 AM JPmiaou via groups.jewishgen.org <JPmiaou=yahoo.com@...> wrote:
Keep in mind that all admixture reports from all companies are still at the level of "for entertainment value only" -- and MyHeritage is the absolute clown of the bunch. They predict ancestry that is ridiculously false for basically everyone. (For me, it's Swedish; for my cousin, it's British Isles. Both of us actually have all of our ancestors squarely in the Carpathian Basin.)

Ashkenazi genetics is endogamous enough that it's pretty confidently identifiable, even by MyHeritage, but the percentages they report can be wildly different from other companies. When it comes to something like "West Asian", all bets are off: neither the reference populations nor the customer base have even remotely enough representatives from this area to come to any definitive conclusions.

What it comes down to is that despite what all the DNA companies would have you believe, geography is not genetic.

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


Re: are there benefits of the My Heritage site over Ancestry #general

JPmiaou@...
 

Every historical record match that I've seen on MyHeritage (or more accurately, glimpsed through the paywall) has been from FamilySearch, which is free. MH is not actually a repository, but a data aggregator: a specialized search engine. Since much of its material comes from otherwise free sites, this results in countless instances of attempting to charge money for freely-available data.

One thing I find especially annoying on MH is that they make no distinction between historical records and user-submitted conclusions. They present tree matches in exactly the same format and wording as record matches.

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


help with ged/dna #dna

 

I have a problem I have 17% European Jewish DNA , only one is my grandfather possibility He was born in Via Austria  his mother left him at the border to Hungary and He had a note pined on saying his name Lipot or Leopold and mothers name

 Apollonia .He grow up in a orphanage , have nothing else .

At gedmatch  I see lot of Jewish names  Kit A490637 (*Borveto)

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

Sally Bruckheimer
 

Do all descendants of your great-grandfather all have similar Jewish DNA markers?  If they are only seen in one of his children's line it suggests differing parentage.

Every child inherits 50% of DNA from each parent, but each is a random assortment of the parent's DNA. So you and a sibling only share 25%. That is why organ transplant Dr. look at parents or children first for a good match.

So all descendants of a great-grandparent will not have the same Jewish DNA markers. There are a lot of markers checked, so DNA testing will probably find some, but not all the same.

Sally Bruckheimer
Molecular Biologist who knew this in high school
Princeton, NJ


Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

Jesse Springer
 

Interesting! Certainly helpful to know. Thanks! 


On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:53 AM C Chaykin <cchaykin@...> wrote:
A note about DNA results... Two Jewish great grandparents may yield results similar to one Jewish grandparent, in terms of percentages of Jewish ancestry. (Ditto for four great great grandparents, etc.)


Re: DNA tests for genealogy in Israel #dna

JPmiaou@...
 

23 and Me says it ships to Israel: https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000145307-What-Countries-Do-You-Ship-To-

Like Ancestry, 23 and Me does not take uploads from other companies, but unlike Ancestry, they do report (basic) Y- and mitochondrial haplogroups. They also have a reasonably large portion of their customer base with Ashkenazi ancestry, and they have a complex algorithm for sorting such matches beyond the basic centimorgans or percentages (which can be misleading for endogamous populations).

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

Jesse Springer
 

Wow, that's incredible! Thank you so much for sharing that story--it inspires me to keep searching. Is there a way to contact the Jewish Museum in Dublin to see if they could offer any insight? 


On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 10:44 AM <2gag4u@...> wrote:
This may not be of any direct assistance but I wanted to offer a parallel example of Jew's melding into Irish Catholic society. While working in San Francisco I was introduced to a woman whose name is Yvonne O'Connor. She had 12 siblings and fell right in the middle by age. After a number of years of close friendship she told me a story about her last trip home to Dublin. To her great surprise she found an old photo in the coal shed of her grandfather. He was known as "Altman the Salt man". After some cajoling with her extended family some things became clearer to her. There were certain burial traditions that the extended family followed that clearly were not Catholic. There was one older member of thee family that would not eat pork. A member or two would not travel on the sabbath.

Eventually she was reconciled to the fact that she was Jewish. Please keep in mind that this was a Catholic girl that had to dig deep into Irish history and eventually found family names in Synagogue records. She imparted to me that "Altman the Salt man" was a character in one of James Joyce's novel "Ulysses". She is now the director of the Jewish Museum in Dublin. She speaks many languages, is well traveled and knows much about Jewish history on the "Isle". If you are inclined she might have something to offer.

There is a significant Jewish world in Scotland and it is not uncommon for people to adopt culture and unintentionally lose some family history. Good Luck!


Re: Is this name the same? #names

Sherri Bobish
 


MaryAnn,

You asked:  "Is the name MOVSHA another name for Moses?"

Yes, it is.  Moses, Movsha, Moishe, and other variations.

Hope this helps,

Sherri Bobish
Princeton, NJ


Re: Is this name the same? #names

Dr.Josef ASH
 

O, yes
as well as Moshe, Moishe, Moisej, Misha, Musa...


Re: Using DNA matches to find Jewish ancestors #dna

JPmiaou@...
 

Keep in mind that all admixture reports from all companies are still at the level of "for entertainment value only" -- and MyHeritage is the absolute clown of the bunch. They predict ancestry that is ridiculously false for basically everyone. (For me, it's Swedish; for my cousin, it's British Isles. Both of us actually have all of our ancestors squarely in the Carpathian Basin.)

Ashkenazi genetics is endogamous enough that it's pretty confidently identifiable, even by MyHeritage, but the percentages they report can be wildly different from other companies. When it comes to something like "West Asian", all bets are off: neither the reference populations nor the customer base have even remotely enough representatives from this area to come to any definitive conclusions.

What it comes down to is that despite what all the DNA companies would have you believe, geography is not genetic.

Julia
./\ /\
.>*.*<


Re: Looking for 19thC marriage record in NYC(?) #usa #austria-czech

Sally Bruckheimer
 

Although I said there weren't a lot of marriage licenses before 1900 in NYC, which is correct, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. 2 sets of my ggrandparents married in 1870, and both have marriage records.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


Re: Use of "ben Avraham" on a headstone #general

Jeff Lieberman
 

Thanks, Sherri. I've been able to confirm that I have the correct birth record. I know he didn't have a good childhood, and he didn't like to talk about his birth family, so it's possible that my family never knew his father's name. (His mother died a few days after he was born from a postpartum infection, his father remarried, and, apparently, he felt rejected by his father & stepmother after they had a son of their own.) His marriage application only adds to the confusion since he listed his parents as Harry & Pearl, which wasn't true. Given the circumstances, it's possible that he avoided any mention of his parents or their actual names.


Re: IAJGS Conference Announcement #jgs-iajgs #education #events #announcements

Chuck Weinstein
 

They will be available when the Conference starts.  If you are registered, you will receive further information just before the Conference begins.  

Chuck Weinstein