Re: Jewish "juniors" in Hungary mid-1800's #hungary #slovakia


I've found that the "rules" about naming children are really common customs that are used sometimes, but not always.  In addition to sons having the same name as a living relative, I've found that half brothers (same father, different mother) have the same names.  I haven't tracked down all the details yet, but it has happened often enough that I consider the Askenazi naming custom as just part of the evidence to be considered, not the final decision when evaluating the evidence.

Peggy Mosinger Freedman
Atlanta, GA

Looking for any information on BENJAMIN LYONS #unitedkingdom


Can't find any records for BENJAMIN LYONS apart from where he is recorded as the father of Lewis Lyons on a marriage certificate from 1838, the ceremony was held at the New Synagogue in the city of London. 

Felicia Schumer from Galacia #galicia


Searching for my grandmother’s sister Fela Schumer. #Galicia


Re: travel from Besarabia to Hamburg in 1905 #bessarabia

Yefim Kogan

Ricardo,  that is very good question, and many people asked it before.

There were many ways to get to Humburg,  and two of them you mentioned in your message were valid means of transportation in these years.
Also they could go by train.  The city in Romania Galats was connected with other European countries, and Ismail is not that far from Galats, only 60 miles.

The other way possible is thru Kishinev, although it is longer way to Kishinev,  but Kishinev was connected to European countries via Yassy.

I would think that the ship option from Ismail to some of European countries on Danube is more likely.
I never find any records of these travels,  only in people's stories I saw that some went to Odessa, etc.

All the best,

Re: US Naturalization questions (more or less general) #general #records


On 8/24/2020 7:09 AM, Rick Zeckel wrote:

Second question: I am seeking the naturalization papers of a number of
individuals who would have gone through the process in the 1910s and
1920s. I went to the National Archives website but they have a notice
that appears to say that as a result of current Covid-19 restrictions
they will not be responding to on-line requests for document copies. It
is not clear to me whether or not they will respond to requests for such
documents (by mail, by phone, by carrier pigeon, however). Does anyone
know whether they will provide the documents at all and, if so, how to
request them?
I would strongly suggest you file FOIA requests to get the records. You
can thus avoid the $65.00 fee for each record, which is going up to
$255.00 on, I believe, October 2nd. Go here:

Be sure to request the "A-File" for each person. It includes every
document your ancestors filled out since arrival in the USA, including
naturalization papers. The first two hours of research are free, as are
the first 100 pages. When you sign the papers you're agreeing to pay up
to $25.00 for time/pages over the above. I highly doubt that would happen.

Good Luck!
Jeri Friedman
Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Poland/Russia/Belarus); GEIST (?,Russia); GLICKMAN, KLUGMAN, STURMAN,
KAPLAN, ROTENBERG (Bilgoraj, Lublin, Poland/Russia); LIEB/LEIBOWITZ,
BLAU (Jassy/Iasi, Romania); GALINSKY, GELLIS, KRYNSKA (Suwalki,
Poland/Russia); KOPCIANSKY (?, Poland/Russia); GOLDSTEIN, SCHRAGER (?,
Romania); CYRULNIK (Suwalki, Poland/Russia and Kalvarija, Lithuania)

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

DNA Tests #dna

Michelle Sandler

I am the administrator of 9 DNA Tests.  The 9 family members tests were taken at FTDNA 10 - 6 years ago.  All have been transferred to MyHeritage.  They are all autosomal and either YDNA or MTDNA.  I just bought 2 kits on sale at Ancestry.  I plan to test myself and my husband first.  My husband is already in FTDNA and MyHeritage.  I have never tested before.  Besides FTDNA and MyHeritage where do I transfer them?   Is Gedmatch up and working again?
Michelle Sandler 
Westminster California   

Re: travel from Besarabia to Hamburg in 1905 #bessarabia

Jorge Sexer

Ricardo : I’m not sure there were any passenger ships along the Danube in 1905. Taking a ship from Odessa to Hamburg and then another one to Argentina seems unlikely.  But : they can very well have traveled somehow from Izmail to Odessa, or to Iasi or to an even closer place like Galatz (Gali). In 1905 there was already a railway line  from those places, northbound. I could imagine they traveled for say 12 hours to Kamenetz-Podolsk and from there, by cart again, to Brody, in Galicia.  My own grandparents came from Kamenetz to Argentina in 1889.   Jorge Sexer

Re: Sharing family tree information #general

Susan stone

Robert....I post photos of children but no one can see them if my tree is marked "private for living persons".  right?  Unless I send the tree to family and allow them to see living persons (check box).  
I have had several people recently who have found family members we had no  idea were even in our tree.  Very exciting but  a lot of work to dissect it all.  Especially family is married to another family and all are related to me!
Pretty soon there are a lot of people over the generations with the same name.  How can people see living people if you have those marked "private".?

Susan Stone
Evanston, IL

Re: Sharing family tree information #general

Selma Sheridan

As a newbie researcher, I chanced upon an online family tree of a cousin's ancestors, set up by someone I didn't know.  I emailed the tree's owner, thanked him for all his work, and offered to send more information, to which he eagerly agreed.  Soon the tree correctly contained the details which I had provided, without  attribution; nor was any notice sent separately to me.  I emailed the owner to ask about his protocol in a situation such as this.  He replied defensively that he had "no obligation of any sort" to me - "after all, it's MY tree".  True, - but it seems that here was a "taker" with a sense of entitlement and perhaps poor manners as well.  Happily, all my other experiences with family tree researchers have been wonderful.
Selma Sheridan
Oswego NY


David Selig

Hi Jewishgenners

I live in Paris.
I seek information on the two following people :

bn. 10.05 1885,  d. 17.01.1931 Mannheim

Is it possible to discover, WHERE he was born?
He was a factory owner in Mannheim

He married my grandmother, Martha née OPPENHEIMER, who was born
26.11.1897, Bad Mergentheim, Germany
he was her first husband.

They had one son, my father, Martin SELIG bn. 11.06.1922
Helene WOLFF,
bn.  25.9. 1862, Koenigsberg.

She married Salomon BLUMENTHAL,
(bn.  Wormdit, 17.07.1861)

I know that Salomon lived until 1940, but have no knowledge of Helene's
She is not buried in Weissensee, and had died earlier.

Thanks for any help
Best wishes to all

Paris, France

Graves in Belz, Ukraine, Jewish cemetery? #rabbinic #ukraine #records

Miriam Bulwar David-Hay

The town of Belz, Ukraine (pre-WWII in Poland, pre-WWI in Galicia) is of course famous for being the seat of the Belzer hassidic rabbinical dynasty, and with the tombstones of the first, second and third Belzer rebbes and some of their close relatives preserved there, the otherwise dilapidated Jewish cemetery has apparently become a site of pilgrimage in recent decades. Many photos of the famous rebbes' graves are online, and some of these show quite a few OTHER tombstones in the background among the grass and weeds in the cemetery, but I can never find any information on those other not-so-famous graves, so I am wondering if anyone has documented or indexed them or knows of any site where they might be documented or indexed. 

I am asking because two of my great-grandparents lived and died in Belz before World War II, and it stands to reason that they would have been buried in that cemetery. There are no surviving Jewish BMD records for the town, so I am really desperate for any information! 

Thank you in advance to anyone who responds.

Yours Sincerely,
Miriam BULWAR David-Hay,
Raanana, Israel.

FYI, my late grandmother, Miriam BULWAR nee FRENKIEL, was born in Belz in 1910; her parents were Todres FRENKIEL, who was apparently a rabbi or a shochet who died around 1925-1930, and Rachel nee VERLIEBTER, who died in or shortly after childbirth, around 1912-1915.

Re: U.S. Appeals Court Rules Spanish Museum May Keep Nazi Looted Art #announcements #holocaust

Adam Cherson

Even more appreciation to Professor Lazerow for not only detailing the facts of the case, but for providing a meta-critique of the structure of the Euro-American legal system (and its lawyers). Not to belabor this much more there are a few observations I make on the Professor's anaylsis: 1) the doctrine of adverse possession, which is similar in effect to the statutes of limitations covering some crimes and some other unlawful behaviors,  includes the notion of being 'open and notorious'; this is to assure that anyone who might wish to contest the adverse ownership can actually find out who owns their property and then try to do something about it before the period expires. I don't know to what extent the Spanish prescription law includes these criteria, but if it does, I wonder whether the ownership(s) in this case ever reached that level of openness and notoriety, 2)  'the wrongdoer...absconds with the money': this is a key flaw in the system described by the Professor which when all the dust has settled serves to shield plunderous activity (and its beneficiaries) while inciting legal warfare between innocent parties seeking justice: the actual wrongdoer avoids responsibility entirely while at best one of the innocents may win a pyrrhic or costly victory, meanwhile society as a whole loses; I don't know to which ancient legal system we can attribute the shielding of plunder and illegality (all for the benefit of the wrongdoers, their 'fences', and some lawyers), but it seems to be a fundamental principle to the Euro-American legal system as we know it today. I suspect that the origin of this legal orientation stems from the influence of ancient nomadic, raiding cultures of the Eurasian steppes who sought to justify their economic 'take-over' legal model in the places they raided and plundered. Since Pissaro was of Danish-French descent and born in St. Thomas, perhaps after the innocents split the proceeds of sale, the painting should wind up on that Caribbean island for public enjoyment. When I look at the painting I am astonished by the fact that a small piece of canvas overlaid by some oil-based pigments and surrounded by a few timbers, no matter how expertly crafted, could actually be worth 30M$US on the auction block! But that is another subject.........

Adam Cherson

Re: US Naturalization questions (more or less general)#usa#general#records

Barbara Ellman

Rick posed a number of questions on Naturalizations in the US.
1. A woman marrying a naturalized citizen in 1921 would have become naturalized as a result of that marriage.  This changed shortly after this date.  There will not be any naturalization papers on this naturalization.  There is no indication of where these people lived.  If they lived in New York City, you can check the 1924 Voter Roll which is available online thru Reclaim the Records and Ancestry. Or the 1925 NY census might have a notation.
2.If you seek naturalization records from the US government, these are held by the USCIS and you will have to go through their Genealogy program to make the request.  The charges for this service are hefty and will be increasing significantly on October 2. See  
I would suggest that before doing this you make every attempt to locate the papers using the available resources.  If you can locate the numbers and dates of the naturalization from a website such as Ancestry, you may be able to get the copy of the naturalization through a search of records on FamilySearch.  The records are only partial indexed on FamilySearch, but they have the films of many of the naturalizations and have been digitizing them.
3.  After mid-1906, the entry into the US is verified and a Certificate of Arrival was issued and is attached to the naturalization papers. Prior to this the information was not often verified.  I have one instance where my great-aunt's naturalization papers says that she arrived on a "German ship" in a year.
Ancestry has in its wisdom only indexed the Detained Aliens page for those listed on it.  However, you can use the information on the Detained Aliens page to locate the original manifest page. This page includes the Group# and line# of the passenger's location on the regular manifest.  By paging backwards through the manifest to the appropriate Group page - Group numbers will be located at the top of the manifest page.
4.  To my knowledge, Ancestry is the only genealogy site with Baltimore manifests at this time.  MyHeritage recently added Boston manifests.  Sometimes when trying to locate manifests, if you can't locate their arrival in the US, you might find the manifest for the person leaving Europe such as from England or Hamburg.  Also try searching using Steve Morse's One-Step tool at
Barbara Ellman

Barbara Ellman
Secaucus NJ USA
ELLMAN, COIRA, MAIDMAN - Minkovtsy, Ukraine
KAGLE, FASS - Ulanow, Poland

Jewish "juniors" in Hungary mid-1800's #hungary #slovakia


Sephardim do name children after relatives who are still living, so that could provide an explanation for any father-son sharings of a given name.
Yale Zussman

Re: Multiple (male) given names and Russian patronymics #general #names

Shelley Mitchell

“Russia,” in earlier days was the broad name used to cover numerous areas which today are separate nations. I can only speak of my experiences.

When I went to bury my aunt, all the paperwork from the old country said her name was Beyla Pesia. Knowing of an earlier child name Beyla, and the tradition of hiding that name with a second name, her name should gave been Pesia Beyla It wasn’t until I translated her headstone did I find the proper order of names. A lot about names comes from who supplied the information. 

As for different surnames, there are multiple reasons. One is that when a census was taken, a person’s name was changed depending on what household they were in at the time. Based on geography, the two surnames might reflect the surnames of the two parents. 

So much depends on date and location. 

Shelly Mitchell

Re: Genealogy research leads to discovery of cousins thought to have died in the Holocaust #holocaust


PS: I neglected to mention that I learned about my family's losses in the Holocaust from Eva. Until then, I accepted the story that "we didn't lose family in the Holocaust because we all were safely here in America by the 1930's." I think my relatives really believed it, until Eva told us what had happened. In Budapest, she bravely forged documents, hid many Jews, and even stole ID papers from a Nazi officer's desk.... I wrote about this in BECAUSE OF EVA: A Jewish Genealogical Journey.


Re: Viewmate Translation Request - Russian #translation #poland



In Russian:


Состоялось в городе Лублин 13-го (25-го) октября 1874 года в 6 часов вечера. Явились евреи Тобиаш Либерман, рабочий, 42-х лет и Яков Дизекман, рабочий, 54-х лет, оба жители города Люблин и объявили, что сего числа,  в городе Люблин, в 8 часов утра, в доме под номером 637, умер Шая-Хеицель (возможно) Вайсблех, 6-и месяцев от роду, родившегося в городе Люблин, сына Вольфа и Шандли, супругов Вайсблех. По настоящему удостоверяю о кончине Шаи-Хеицеля Вачсблеха.  Акт сей присутствующим прочитан и ими подписан.


Подпись Подпись Подпись Подпись


Translate into English:


It took place in the city of Lublin on the 13th (25th) October 1874 at 6 pm. The Jews Tobiash Lieberman, a worker, 42 years old, and Jacob Dizekman, a worker, 54 years old, both residents of the city of Lublin, appeared and announced that on this day, in the city of Lublin, at 8 o'clock in the morning, at house number 637, had died Shaya-Heitzel (possibly) Weisblech, 6 months old, born in the city of Lublin, the son of Wolf and Shandla, the Weisblechs. I am truly certifying the death of Shai-Heizel Wachsbleh. This act was read and signed by those present.




Signature Signature Signature Signature

Re: Viewmate Translation Request - Russian #translation #poland



In Russian:


Состоялось в городе Лублин 13-го (25-го) октября 1874 года в 10 часов вечера. Явился еврей Вольф Вайсблех, жестянщик, житель города Люблин, 45-и лет.  В присутствии свидетелей Тобиасша Либермана, рабочего, 42-х лет и Якова Дизекмана, рабочего, 54-х лет, оба жители города Люблин и предъявили нам младенца мужского пола, который родился в городе Люблин 5-го (17-го) марта сего года в 3 часа дня, в доме под номером 637, от законной жены Шандли урожденной Фриш, 32-и лет.  Младенцу при обрезании было дано имя Шая-Хеицель (возможно). Позднее объявление не оправдано.  Акт сей присутствующим прочитан и кроме объявляющего неграмотного, ими подписан.


Подпись Подпись Подпись Подпись


Translate into English:


It took place in the city of Lublin on the 13th (25th) October 1874 at 10 pm. The Jew Wolf Weisblech, a tinsmith, a resident of the city of Lublin, 45 years old, appeared. In the presence of witnesses Tobiash Lieberman, a worker, 42 years old, and Jacob Dizekman, a worker, 54 years old, both residents of the city of Lublin and presented us with a male baby who was born in the city of Lublin on March 5 (17) of this year at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, in house number 637, from Shandley's legal wife, nee Frisch, 32 years old. During circumcision, the baby was given the name Shaya-Kheitsel (possibly). The later announcement is not justified. This act was read to those present and, apart from the declaring illiterate, they signed.


Signature Signature Signature Signature

Translation (or just transcription) from old German handwriting from 1834 revision list #translation


The attached text is from the 1834 revision list and has data on my gr-gr-grandfather Elias (Elihu) Seligson (b.abt 1808), who was registered in Tukums but probably resided in Liepaja. I would appreciate a translation of the text.

Many thanks,
David Seligson
Arceu, France

US Naturalization questions (more or less general) #general #records

Rick Zeckel

First question: My wife's grandmother came to the US in or around 1915 when she was less than 18 years old (the story is she lied about her age to get here). Her parents did not come with her, but I don't know if any other family member did. She married my wife's grandfather in 1921. The grandfather had come to this country years earlier and had already been naturalized. Census data from later years indicate that she was a naturalized citizen. Is it logical to assume that since her parents were not there to include her in a naturalization process that she would have had to become naturalized herself (as opposed to being naturalized by inclusion with someone else's petition)? 

Second question: I am seeking the naturalization papers of a number of individuals who would have gone through the process in the 1910s and 1920s. I went to the National Archives website but they have a notice that appears to say that as a result of current Covid-19 restrictions they will not be responding to on-line requests for document copies. It is not clear to me whether or not they will respond to requests for such documents (by mail, by phone, by carrier pigeon, however). Does anyone know whether they will provide the documents at all and, if so, how to request them?

Third question: On some Naturalization papers I do have they designate the ship, port, and date of their arrival in this country. Often times I can see copies of the manifests from the various genealogy sites (Ancestry, Family Search, MyHeritage, etc.) to see what information they supplied (some of which is not available from other sources) and whether they may have traveled with other members of the family. I have also, from time to time, found the information using the Ellis Island database. I know that the information on the Naturalization papers, at least in terms of dates, is not always accurate, but typically the port of entry is. In some cases, however, I have been unable to locate such information. In one case I found a listing of Detained Aliens which were not included on the manifest itself and, probably as a result, was not listed in the database. Is that typical? If so, how can I find such listings for other ships?

Last question: Other than the genealogy sites and the Ellis Island database, are there other databases one could look at to try and obtain copies of manifests? A number of my wife's relatives entered the country through Baltimore but are not included in the genealogy site databases and, short of rummaging through the various microfilm archives (which are terribly disorganized), I don't know how to find that information.

Rick Zeckel
13919 Springmill Ponds Circle
Carmel, Indiana  46032

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