Re: Looking for info about Russian emigres who returned to fight for the Bolsheviks in 1917 #records #russia #canada #usa


A fascinating story.  I am not an expert in this area but I have to think records from the Red Army at that time were (a) not so good (b) hard to find. and (c) still secret, so I don't like your chances; but will be hopeful to see what you may turn up.
Robert Roth
Kingston NY

Re: Ancestry's Drastic Changes Dash Hopes of Finding Connections #dna


I thought i was the only one fighting for the loss of the 6-7.9 cM. i complained the day the notice came out and shared with some others. Many were thankful and a few tried to tell me it was just noise. I know it is not because i have a line on my non-Jewish side that i can trace back 10 generations. One day I saw a surname in a distant match and she had a larger tree. i could follow her tree to meet exactly where they were supposed to....6th cousins.  I was stunned because originally i understood that these results were unreliable.  

Fast forward. I had made a couple more matches similarly but my Jewish lines were harder to prove due to paper trails before North America being harder to document. But wait there is more. We all know that Jewish Genealogy is a special search requiring a some basic understandings of endogamy, name changes, migration patterns, geographical name changes, generic terms like 'Russia' Or 'Austria' which could mean Belarus or Hungary.  

Because i have both adoption in one generation and an NPE at the next, I do not have the luxury of starting with the myself and going backwards. Most genealogist presume that inductive reasoning is the principal method of searching. This technique worked fine on other lines because i had data to fill in.  On my Jewish line i had nothing.  I could not use inductive reasoning.  I had to find clues and even that was not good enough.  Yes I had experience in breaking down other really tough walls in my other research but still i had the luxury of moving up the tree. 

So for those of us who have missing parents or grandparents identities through the holocaust, NPE's or adoption, this methodology will not work. You may get lucky and have a breakthrough but it will not be because you had information available to you about missing tree members. 

In these cases we have to parachute into the top of the tree and start climbing our way down. if the top of the tree is shaved off, we are stuck in limbo.  But after reading the support of people who wrote in, it is not just people with my issues but there is a broader range of researchers who realize the additional information that is stored in the distant past. 

I know not everyone agrees. I have had people who told me that this was 'just noise'.  Noise may be at the 1 to 2% level and it is a nice buzz word but i once thought that there was little reliability at this level and through evidence I found on my own, I have changed my position. I was wrong. In the last few weeks when my wrists got sore and my eyes blurred while i spent hours per day documenting as many distant matches as i physically could, I learned something I have not been able to find in my closer matches. I was able to separate my great grandparents and figure out that my Great Grandmother was Litvak and my Great Grandfather was Galician. That was a huge breakthrough and i could color code it.

Secondly i was able to find an entire line that could be documented to a closer cousin hence strengthen the jump to my tree.  I am still breaking down the wall and i know if i still had the 6 to 7.9 cM i would have a better chance at resolution. DNA has helped me determine a surname I am seeking. I was looking for the wrong name in the wrong place for years before DNA.  Closer DNA matches allowed this discovery. 

I am in support of all those who want to have the DNA reinstated.  I believe it was the contract we agreed upon for submitting DNA though they say these agreements can be changed on their part at any time. A one way street. It can't hurt those who do not care so it is a non issue. Maybe there could be an opportunity for those who do not care for it to have an off button so their 6-8 cM matches are not downloaded to their account. I would not have an issue with that. 

I hope we can fight to get the information back. You made some difference because they did delay the deletion by at least four weeks at one point. It was not adequate for me to cover all the areas i was trying to save.

No voice is acceptance. One voice is heard, many voices are answered. (one way or another).

Susan Gardner

Re: Paul STRANSKY Vienna to Paris #austria-czech #france

David Choukroun

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 05:05 PM, Daniela Torsh wrote:
Dear Daniela, 
I have made a small mistake, the date of the decree is 8 October 1946 - not 13.

please find below the decree number 51755 x 38   (the last digits stand for 1938)

last step is to request to the (French) Archives Nationales the physical access to the file

David Choukroun



Re: Photo for language identification #photographs #translation


Not to beat a dead horse :~), but I have some thoughts on other people's replies ....

Pisztráng is indeed Hungarian for "trout".

While it is an unrelated language, Hungarian shares quite a bit of stray vocabulary with its Slavic neighbors. Many of these words are food-related: káposzta (cabbage), kolbász (sausage), cseresznye (sweet cherry), kása (porridge), mák (poppy seed), rák (crab), szalonna (bacon), vacsora (supper).

The crossbar on the Z is simply how that letter is written, I think to differentiate from the number 2.

Given the color photograph, the price has to be in forints, but I haven't been able to find a currency converter for the 1950s-60s. (Circa 1980 you got about 33 forints to the dollar, which would make for some very expensive fish.)

Julia Szent-Györgyi
./\ /\

Re: Paul STRANSKY Vienna to Paris #austria-czech #france

David Choukroun

Dear Daniela, 

a quick look at the "Journal Officiel de la République Française" under is saying that there is a Naturalisation file  (date of the decree 13 october 1946)

a recent update of the online resources is now allowing to search for the decree number.  

with the decree number, you can ask for the File itself (the process is a little bit complicated).

within this file, you may have further information about the move from Vienna to Paris and most of the time after 1936, a picture will be included (not guarantee !) 

David Choukroun



Re: Good news for French research: 1931-1948 naturalization decrees online #announcements #france #records


My grand uncle Simon Taganski survived in Paris.  Some of my uncles visited him when WWII was over.  Would love to know how he survived as well.

Iris Folkson

Re: Polish town Cewck or Cewek #poland

Alexander Sharon

This is most probably place Cewkow (Tsevkuv) in Cieszanow district. There are two entries for this location in JGFF database.
This town had 2,700 residents, including 135 Jewish souls registered during 1921 census

Alexander Sharon
JGFF editor

Re: Ancestry's Drastic Changes Dash Hopes of Finding Connections #dna

Jill Whitehead

Personally I do not find small segments of any use whatsoever, as they go so far back in time that they are unreliable, and give faulty results. It is the 20cm plus which are the key to finding recent ancestors. Unfortunately Ancestry only records total cm length and not individual chromosome cm length so their data has to be uploaded to Gedmatch or another supplier like  FTDNA, 23andme,MyHeritage to get this information. 

However, I agree 20cm could be seen as a high cut off - I would prefer say 15 cm, but this would need to go hand in hand with Ancestry giving its customers individual chromosome lengths like all the other suppliers.  

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK

Re: Photo for language identification #photographs #translation

JONES Etienne H.L.F.

Hello Neilan !
By entering the word with its exact spelling in GOOGLE Translation (do you know? always first to try, doesn't always give the solution), it is identified as being Hungarian (Magyar), and indeed also means trout (according to the head these are no herrings !). However, a bit strange anyway because Hungarian differs very widely from Slavic or Latin languages ​​(belongs to Finno-Ugric group of languages, of far-Asian origin). But maybe it is one of those slightly international words borrowed into  traditional Hungarian.
However, I could not find the z with a horizontal line, it is not part of the classic Magyar alphabet, so it is probably not a truel diacritical mark modifying the value of z but a mark of aesthetics (in French, in the  past, we also wrote the capital Z with a horizontal line, so I learned at school !).
If you knew the date of the photo, we could perhaps still confirm the thing with the price : 2000 . . which currency ?
I hope I have not been wrong with my explanations . . 

Kind regards,
Etienne JONES

Re: Postcard or Travel Document - Can you make anything of this? #translation

Dr.Josef ASH

just addition:
it may mean not "8th klass...", but
"8-years ... college",
Josef ASH

Re: Obtaining original records from Kaunas Regional Archives #lithuania #records


I’ve also been trying to contact them without success. The email address must have changed.
Kathryn Berman

Re: Photo for language identification #photographs #translation


This (apparently Hungarian) Wikipedia article (for "trout") has the same basic spelling ("pisztrang" -- with an accent mark over the "a") :áng .

Good Luck.

Ethan Kent
New York, NY.

Re: Photo for language identification #photographs #translation

Rodney Eisfelder

According to google translate,
pisztráng is hungarian for trout. The Polish word is pstrąg

I hope this helps,
Rodney Eisfelder
Melbourne, Australia

Re: What port when leaving Europe #hungary

Peninah Zilberman

Hamburg, Germany was a popular harbour

Fundatia Tarbut Sighet
+40 74 414 5351

Re: Photo for language identification #photographs #translation

David Barrett


David Barrett

Re: Obtaining original records from Kaunas Regional Archives #lithuania #records

Carol Hoffman

You can find all of the information and correct address at LitvakSIG

Carol Hoffman

Re: Paul STRANSKY Vienna to Paris #austria-czech #france

David Lewin

At 23:21 03/09/2020, Daniela Torsh wrote:
I'm searching for any information about a distant cousin Paul STRANSKY. He
was born in Vienna 1905 to Else and Emil and somehow managed to leave
Austria and ended up living and working in Paris by 1946. He married a
French woman Catherine and they had two sons Patrice born 1948 and
Michel-Frederic born 1949.
Paul died in 1985 in France.
I am especially interested in the period between him leaving Vienna and
arriving in Paris. I assume he may have been in a camp somewhere?
Daniela Torsh
Sydney, Australia
you have a list of all Austrian departments
I have often got answers from mag mag 8 - the Vienna state archive

David Lewin

Re: Ancestry's Drastic Changes Dash Hopes of Finding Connections #dna

Dahn Cukier

A few words about computers.

All the former "matches" are still on the computers as are all
non matches. Unless a person has demanded their DNA be removed,
Ancestry should not be removing any results.

We, the users, see only the data deemed relevant to us. I do not see
any of my uncle's wife's relatives, but did find an 5-8th cousin in
common, or so say statistics.

Since Ancestry removed the ability to jump from page to page, I
have not seen as many matches. I tried to scroll down when the new
display first came out about a year ago, but after an hour, I was
no where near the 150,000 matches I saw before the display change.

I would appreciate Ancestry supplying a utility to request a spreadsheet of
matches as MyHeritage does/did in batch form. "Batch" means it is produced during
slow hours and a file is prepared for the user by request that can be downloaded.

With so much endogamy, the results on any database are less than perfect.
I have access to 7 direct relatives raw data DNA at Ancestry. When a new
1st-3rd cousin shows up, I always look at he person from my mother's data,
my father's brother's data and my sister's data. If only I am a
relative, it is most likely a false positive. By looking at 2nd cousins data,
I can find if the person is related to my mother's father or mother, or
my father's father or mother.

As I write this, I begin to suspect that Ancestry may not be so much about
genealogy as connecting living people. As families started to move around
more and more beginning in the 1960s many have lost touch with
2nd generation relatives. While I knew my aunts and uncles, I have never met
many of their 1st cousins.

Dani Cukier
Cukier/Zucker/Zukrowicz, Brif/Brieff, Sklawir/etc. Lisoecki/Lisobitki/etc.

When you start to read readin,
how do you know the fellow that
wrote the readin,
wrote the readin right?

Festus Hagen
Long Branch Saloon
Dodge City, Kansas

On Friday, September 4, 2020, 05:27:02 AM GMT+3, Teewinot <teewinot13@...> wrote:

I beg to differ. In all my shared matches until about 7 days ago, I had
matches down to 6.0 cM. So did my cousins I've been working with. If
we didn't, we wouldn't have found some of the links between us. I also
wouldn't have found other critical matches in the shared DNA.

I know what shared matches are. I've been using them for the past two
years, since I tested.

I'm a retired medical professional and know about DNA, genetics and
inheritance. In more distant relationships, DNA is more a guide, not an
absolute. Due to the way DNA is inherited, you can have two siblings
with vastly different DNA inheritance from even great great
grandparents. Also, the estimation of relationship can often be way
off. Someone with 8.0 cM could be as close as a 4th cousin or as
distant as an 8th cousin. It all depends on how the DNA was
inherited/passed down. (Ancestry had two of my 1st cousins once removed
listed as 3rd to 4th cousins.)

I paid for the data I was given (down to 6.0 cM). I did not in the
least appreciate it being taken from me without even asking me. I
worked feverishly for the last week to save as many matches as I could
below 8.0 cM. Obviously, everyone else was, too, because the servers
were sluggish, crashing constantly, and even going down completely for
two hours at a time. They hadn't been prior to that. On Sept. 1st,
they were back to normal. I managed to save just under 7,500 matches.
I dread to think of all the valuable data I lost in the matches I
couldn't save.

I personally believe that Ancestry has done all this because they can't
handle the storage of the massive amount of data that is being generated
as more and more people get tested. I also personally believe that what
Ancestry did was disgraceful and just plain bad business. I have never,
in all my years, seen a business take away something from a customer
that they had paid for. If Ancestry wanted to make changes, they should
have started with the new customers as of Sept. 1st, and left alone all
the data of customers who had paid for the service before that date.
They've just made it far harder now to trace links between families.

I had a long talk with someone in the corporate HQ today. He agreed
with me, and is going to look into returning all matches to the shared
DNA. As for the data below 8.0 cM, it's all been dumped. So now it's
just wait and see.

Jeri Friedman

On 9/3/2020 5:54 PM, Adam Turner wrote:

Only the 8.0 cM cutoff is a recent change. The bit about the shared
matches was never announced because it is how AncestryDNA has /always/
worked, at least since I tested.

Your /main match list/ (the screen you are brought to when you click
"DNA matches", which shows all of your matches) showed, and continues to
show, all matches: everyone from "close family", "2nd-3rd cousins,"
"4th-6th cousins" (3500+ cM down to 20.0 cM) to "Distant Cousins" aka
"5th-8th cousins" (20.0 cM down to 8.0 cM). The change that AncestryDNA
made in August is that the cutoff used to go down to 6 cM, and they took
out all matches between 6.0 and 8.0 cM.

The /shared matches tab/ is what you're brought to when you click on the
profile of one of your matches, and are trying to triangulate the
results and see /other /people who match /both/ you and that match. This
section has /always/ had a cutoff of 20.0 cM; you cannot drill past 20.0
cM from this tab within a match's profile. But you could, and still can,
see matches from 8-20 cM in your main match list.

There's an interesting debate to be had on whether revising the cutoff
from 6 cM to 8 cM was beneficial for users (apparently, until 2016, it
used to go down as low as 5 cM), as well as the degree to which some of
these changes are really motivated by the desire to improve accuracy, as
opposed to AncestryDNA's engineers demanding this from within because
their job of running a gigantic match database while minimizing bugs is
hard. (Seen the "our backend servers are overtaxed at the moment"
message lately? I know I have.) But they didn't take 8-20 cM matches out
of Shared Matches; they were never there in the first place.

Adam Turner
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

Re: Postcard or Travel Document - Can you make anything of this? #translation

Dr.Josef ASH

It is Russian. and this is some official document
on the photo:
"Shmul Lejb LIPMAN
(I certify) the manual
sign and indentity..."
on the other side
"...of Shmul-Lejb
LIPMAN f.(ormer)
of entrusted me
8th kl(ass) of Commercial college of G.Z.
t(own) Kamenets-Pod(olsky)
June 4 1913. #263
acting as the Director
real council of State
I didn't succeed to read the stamp and the hidden behind word
Josef ASH

Re: Ancestry's Drastic Changes Dash Hopes of Finding Connections #dna

Adam Turner

I think I come down somewhere in the middle on the value of these small-segment matches and autosomal DNA research generally. DNA doesn't show how you're connected - but finding patterns among my matches in AncestryDNA has definitely been hugely useful for identifying groups of people who, after these leads are followed up with traditional research, turn out to be in distantly-related branches (those of the siblings of my ggg-grandparents) that can then be joined to my tree.

That said, have the matches below 10 cM or so been vital for accomplishing this? Not especially, in my experience. They're more like gravy: usually, the only way I ever find promising matches in this range in the first place is by using the search bar to mine my match list for a name/surname/ancestral town that I already know is associated with my family. Then, I can compare them to a group I've previously identified - which mostly contains matches above 20 cM. If I turn up a cluster of 9 people among my matches who are all associated with the Greenstein family of Anatevka, and Joe Kloppenberg in that cluster who matches me at 7.2 cM turns out to also have some match to 12 of my known cousins, that is decent supplemental info to have as I investigate the cluster further. But I have yet to come across a case where I would never have been able to identify that cluster of people if it weren't for the people in it who have the most marginal matches to me.

Adam Turner

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