son of Jeno WEISZ and Malvina PANETH, born after 1937 in Budapest #hungary


My father's first cousin Jeno Weisz (born 1908, Budapest) married Malvina Paneth (born 1913) and I have just discovered that they had a son. The son I believe emigrated to Israel around 1956 but came back around 1960. I don't know if he changed his family name. How can I look in the Budapest birth records for 1938 onwards (they don't seem to go this far), probably district 7 or 8, or how can I trace him entering Israel/coming back to Hungary. I would deeply appreciate any help. I have been looking for surviving branches of the family for the past 4 years or so. It is quite a breakthrough to find that Jeno had a child so I would really love to find him. Huge thanks. Emma Cole

Re: Need help, please, dating a Warsaw and a Liverpool studio photo of my great-grandmother #poland #unitedkingdom #photographs

Michele Lock

Now that I am taking another look at the photos, I notice in the second one that the sleeves are the style known as 'leg of mutton', which became popular in the 1890s. The fabric also looks to be seersucker, though an expert would be able to tell for sure.

In the first photo, the sleeves are 3/4 length (several inches above the wrist), but I don't know when these came into fashion, or went out of fashion, just as important. And she's holding a fan, which strikes me as being from a time earlier than the 1890s [To me, it just screams 'Civil War' and 'Gone with the Wind', but then the woman would be wearing a hoop skirt].

I also have thought that these might be two different women. The women look similar in terms of their lips/nose/eye color, but the first one is somewhat heavier, and has a slightly different look. I've thought that they might be sisters, but it is possible that they are mother and daughter, especially if the first photo is dated to the 1870s or so. 

If you really want an expert opinion, there is a person who runs a business called 'Sherlock Cohn' who specializes in dating photographs, particularly of Jewish families. It appears there is a fee for her to do this, but apparently she is very thorough.

Michele Lock
Alexandria, VA

Re: Heimatschein from Vienna #austria-czech


The interrelated words zuständig and Heimatschein come up frequently in vital records. Here is a paraphrase of the explanation from .
The Heimatschein was used in Austria in the years 1863-1939 . Each community was declared responsible for keeping a register of community members (homeland roll) and the issuing of the Heimatschein (certificate of residence rights) to each community member. The idea was that every Austrian citizen should have the right of residence in an Austrian community. With the right of residence came the right to undisturbed stay in the home town and the right to welfare in case of poverty. The right of residence could only be granted to a citizen in one community and was obtained by birth, marriage, admission to the home association, or public office. Most often, the right of residence was based on the principle of descent: legitimate children were granted the right of residence in the community in which the father had the right of residence at the time of their birth, and illegitimate children were granted the right of residence in the community in which the mother had the right of residence at the time of their birth. Through marriage, women gained the right of residence in the community in which the husband had the right of residence.
If in some record you see that the person P was zuständig nach X, that means that P had the right of residence in the town X. The word zuständig means “responsible”. It does not necessarily mean that P was born in that town or lived in that town. But most likely some ancestors came from that town.

Martin Tompa
Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Need help, please, dating a Warsaw and a Liverpool studio photo of my great-grandmother #poland #unitedkingdom #photographs

Barry Clarke

This is extremely useful, Michelle, and much appreciated. I will post the photographs on the Facebook group, as you suggest. The backstory to my great-grandmother is complicated, so dating the photos will help enormously. A new spanner in the works this morning is the suggestion from one person who replied privately that the photos are of two different women! That had not occurred to me, but it does seem feasible that the Warsaw photo could in fact be my great-great-grandmother (no other photos exist for me to compare with), and then the woman in the Liverpool photo (many years later) her daughter, my great-grandmother (I know for sure the Liverpool photo is her). Responses here, and a few privately, are split as to the age differences and even as to which photo is the younger! An observation is that in the Warsaw photo there is no ring and in the Liverpool photo there is. 

If you, or anyone else reading this, has an opinion on whether these are two photos of one woman or of two women, and what their ages at the time of the photos might be,I would appreciate hearing!

Again, Michelle, my thanks,

Barry Clarke

Re: Ladyzhyn (was how to find birth and death records in Ukraine #russia #ukraine# #russia #records



Either I made a typo or someone answering did. LADYZHYN does exist. "Ladyzhyn (Ukrainian: Ладижин, Polish: Ładyżyn) is a town of oblast significance in Vinnytsia Oblast, Ukraine. The population was 22,778 (2015 est.) “

Are there any records?


Ruth Chernia
Toronto, Canada
searching for
TSCHERNIA of Copenhagen, Denmark, & Genichesk, Kherson Oblast, Ukraine
SHLAMOWITZ/SZLAMOWICZ/LANDAU of London, England, Lodz & Jezow, Poland
ROSENFELD of Raków, Kielce, Poland
SHKOLNIK/TICKER of Ladyzhyn & Bershad, Vinnytsia, Ukraine
Ruth Chernia
Toronto, Canada
searching for
TSCHERNIA of Copenhagen, Denmark, & Genichesk, Kherson Oblast, Ukraine
SHLAMOWITZ/SZLAMOWICZ/BIRENCWEIG of London, England; Lodz & Jezow, Poland
SEIDLER/ZAJDLER/LANDAU of Lodz & Sulejow, Poland
ROSENFELD of Raków, Kielce, Poland
SHKOLNIK/TICK[ER] of Ladyzhyn & Bershad, Vinnytsia, Ukraine

Re: University of Oxford senior candidate exam - please explain #general #unitedkingdom


Hallo Larry

Please see the link below re: the history of school examinations:

 I refer you to para. 1 of the above which indicates
'' The first regular examinations under examination boards took place for boys only in 1858 as a result of schools approaching Oxford and Cambridge universities for local means of assessment. Girls did not take school exams until 1867 monitored by Cambridge, and Oxford started from 1870.''

Rebecca born 1852 and based on the above I believe she could have sat the Oxford Local Assessment in or around 1870 when she was aged under 18 years and a schoolgirl.  

The reverse of the Certificate (if you have the original) should show all the subjects which the girls took then - see paragraph 4 of the attached link.  

Two thoughts come to my mind:
1.  I infer that her parents/carers were mindful of her obvious academic abilities and were willing to support and encourage Rebecca in her education post 16.  How wonderful.  Did Rebecca progress to university?

2.  Rebecca's certificate and the signposted link together form a social and educational history which highlight inter alia:  
- the development of the UK education system; 
- higher education for women;
- class system (still prevalent even today); and 
- the history of those times in terms of the academic subjects required for entry to university.

Also we must note that, since medieval times,  Oxford Uni has been linked with the Church.  

I trust this is helpful for  you.  

Malka Flekier
London, UK

Re: University of Oxford senior candidate exam - please explain #general #unitedkingdom

Peter Lobbenberg

Hi Larry, 

Sadly, it doesn't follow that passing the Senior Candidate exam would have defined Rebecca as a student at the University of Oxford.  Apparently the Senior exam was for under-18s, and the Junior exam for under-15s.  So these would have been early precursors of what we in the UK now call A levels and GCSE respectively, both part of the General Certificate of Education.  (It seems A levels would broadly correspond, in US terms, to a grade 12 high school diploma - although I may be mistaken here, I'm not familiar with the US system.)  Those who passed the Senior Exam were given the title "Associate in Arts".

There are fuller narratives here:,-A-History.pdf  

and here: 

Peter Lobbenberg, London

Re: Adoption Lwow, Poland #dna #poland #galicia

Yehuda Berman

Have you searched for baptismal records of your mother in her town of birth? It seems unlikely that before the Second World War Jewish parents would have given up their child for adoption to non-Jews. Could her parents have converted to Catholicism before her birth? Is it possible that she was born Jewish and changed her identity during the Second World War and kept that identity after the war? 
Yehuda Berman

Re: How to find UKRAINE birth and marriage records - Kitai Family in Zdolbunow and Rovno #ukraine #records #russia


thank you very much Ellen!
I am still searching
I will be glad to let you know if I find what I am looking for: Records from Zdolnubnow near Rivne. 

Hag Sukot Sameach!
thank you again

Looking for living relatives of Judel EPPEL from Riga (Latvia) #latvia

luciana gandelman

Dear Genners,
I am doing research on the Eppel family from Riga (Latvia). They were originally from Lithuania and had a permit to live in Riga between 1870 and WWII.
I am trying to locate living relatives of two brothers who were my great-grandfather's nephews so I can understand what happened to this side of the family. 
They were sons of: Israel-David EPPEL and Haja EPPEL
1) Judel EPPEL, born in Riga on October 11 of 1923. He died in Riga in 1984.
2) Leiser EPPEL, born in Riga on February 16 of 1921. He supposed migrated to Venezuela probably after WWII.
I would also appreciate any information about them and what happened to them between WWI and WWII.
Thank you in advance
best regards
Luciana Gandelman
EPPEL family - Riga (Latvia) and Laukuva (Lithuania)
ABRAMOWITSCH family - Riga (Latvia) and Anyksciai (Lithuania) 
GANDELMAN family - Trinca (Bessarabia)
Luciana Gandelman DHIST-ICHS Universidade Federal Rural do Rio de Janeiro - UFRRJ

Re: University of Oxford senior candidate exam - please explain #general #unitedkingdom

Tina Isaacs

I don't know if you're interested in reading (or skimming) a 65 pager from Oxford on the senior candidate exam, but here's a link:

The most relevant bit, I think, is:
SENIOR EXAMINATION 1858-1922 The Senior examination was originally for boys under the age of 18; in 1867, girls were allowed to sit the examination for the first time. In 1888, the age limit was removed. To pass the Senior examination it was necessary to pass a preliminary examination for which a certificate was not awarded. Successful candidates in the Senior examination were entitled to be called an ‘Oxford Associate in Arts’; this title is mentioned in the first regulations and Annual Report, 1858 (see also the volume by TD Acland, 1858, LE 171). Senior Examination results can be found in LE 93. (pg 3)

Tina Isaacs

Re: University of Oxford senior candidate exam - please explain #general #unitedkingdom


I’ve just done a quick search and it would seem that this exam took place at an earlier age and level than a university degree:
 The title of Associate in Arts, introduced by the University of Oxford in 1857 and sometimes referred to as the degree of Associate in Arts, predates the Durham degree. However, it was an examination for "those who are not members of the university" and who were under the age of 18; as such it was at the level of a high school qualification rather than a modern associate degree. Examinations were held in English, languages, mathematics, science, drawing and music, with the title being conferred on those who students who passed any two (as long as the two were not drawing and music)”

Further information from Oxford University:,-A-History.pdf

None of which detracts from how wonderful it is to learn about your relative’s document, and it must have been an unusual achievement at that time.  

Ruth Silman, England 

Re: Lacova in Lithuania #lithuania

luciana gandelman

Hi there,
It could also be Laukuva (Telschen district, Kovno province, Lithuania). Sometimes it appears as Lavkovo on the documents.
My great-grand-father's family was from Laukuva. Their surname is Eppel.
Good luck with your search
Luciana Gandelman
EPPEL family - Riga (Latvia) and Laukuva (Lithuania)
ABRAMOWITSCH family - Riga (Latvia) - Anyksciai (Lithuania) 

Re: How to find UKRAINE birth and marriage records #ukraine #records #russia


Hi Deborah, My grandmother's family were Zaslavskys, from Genischesk eventually, before leaving for China in the 1920s sometime. Could they have been in any way connected with the town Zaslav? Or would their second name have come about historically quite separately?
Thank you,
Jane Beckerman

Finding Out You Lost Your Citizenship #events

Carl Kaplan

My great aunt was born in New York in 1897. She married a non-naturalized immigrant in 1919. The family story is that she found out she lost her citizenship when she went to vote in 1920 (her husband subsequently naturalized, including her and child, in 1922 before the Cable Act was approved). Is that how she would have learned of the loss of her citizenship?
Carl Kaplan

KAPLAN Minsk, Belarus
EDELSON, EDINBURG Kovno, Lithuania

Re: Researcher in Belarus #belarus


I agree with Jonathan Sher's and Sally Horn's recommendation.  I also have used Yuri Dorn  (jhrg@...) and have had very good results.  I did not need an Apostille.

Anthony Rabin
London, UK

Re: How to find UKRAINE birth and marriage records #ukraine #records #russia


Hello Gary 
Could you please give me a link to that revision list for the town of Rowno-Rivne? 
I am looking for records related to the Kitai Family in the area of Rowno and Zdolbunow.

Meir Bnaya
Hos Hasharon

Re: University of Oxford senior candidate exam - please explain #general #unitedkingdom

Alan Cohen

Wow. I think 1870 was the first year women were allowed to be students at Oxford, although only as external ones. They had to wait another 50 years before they were allowed to obtain a degree, so Rebecca must have been perhaps the first Jewish women to be accepted as a student. It's worth following up in more detail

Alan Cohen

Re: Printing records I find on JRI-Poland #records #poland #translation

Nicole Heymans

If the record is on the Polish Archives site (szukaj....) there's a "download" link below the image.

Nicole Heymans, near Brussels, Belgium

Re: Ukmerge/ Vilkomir , Lithuania birth records #lithuania #records

Susie Adani

Thanks so much Russ! Does that mean that records for 1895-1922 don't exist or that they are still lying around in an archive in Ukmerge?

Susie Adani

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