Re: King David Cemetery, Queens #usa

Diane Jacobs

Beth David like other cemetery databases is not always correct. I found a grave there and when I checked the online database this person was not there. I called their office and they did a card check, found him and added him into their database.

Diane Jacobs
PS: You can do an online search by name and also by society. By society, all those listed will come up. 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: goldnerjeff <goldner_jeff@...>
Date: 11/21/20 10:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [] King David Cemetery, Queens #usa

Did you call the cemetery office at Beth David? We found a number of relatives buried in NY cemeteries who did not show up in online searches.
Jeff Goldner
Researching Goldner, Singer, Neuman, Braun, Schwartz, Gluck, Reichfeld (Hungary/Slovakia); Adler, Roth, Ader (Galicia); Soltz/Shultz/Zuckerman/Zicherman (Vitebsk, maybe Lithuania)
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey

Re: King David Cemetery, Queens #usa

Peter Cohen

Another possibility is King Solomon Memorial Park in Clifton, New Jersey. Not in Queens, but over time, people's memories become faulty.
Peter Cohen

Re: King David Cemetery, Queens #usa

Sherri Bobish


If he confused the name of the society with the name of the cemetery, here are a few possibilities found at:

Beth Moses King David Lodge #26 FSI New York NY US  
Montefiore King David Abe Koser Benevolent Society Inc.        
Montefiore King David Abe Koser Inc.        
Mt. Hebron King David Association       Kaydee Association;Inc (guess same)
Mt. Hebron King David Lodge #26 FSI New York NY US  
Mt. Judah King David Abe Koser Benevolent Society Inc.        
Mt. Lebanon/New Mt. Lebanon (NJ) King David Lodge #431 IOOF (post)        
Riverside (Saddle Brook) King David Lodge #26 FSI New York NY US  
Washington (B'klyn) King David Lodge #26 FSI New York NY US

You can search some NYC area cemetery databases on-line at:
Some cemeteries allow search by name and/or society, and some by name only.


Sherri Bobish

Connecting The Dots-My Jewish Ancestry #israel #records #names #france


Let me start by saying that I have lots of questions about Jewish ancestry. My basic questions are how do I fit in and how do I "connect the dots" on those missing years between immigration and conversion (or Crypto Jewish culture)? I was brought "knowing" that I was a Sicilian (Mother) and French (Father) 2nd generation female. As an adult, I wanted to know more about my family so I started doing genealogy about 30 yrs ago. I focused on my husbands side until just recently. That's when it started to get interesting.

I found that my mother's Sicilian family had a hug falling out at the beginning of the 20th century which is why I don't know much about them.  I decided that it would be best to get a DNA test to see if that would help fill in the gaps. Well, it did yield some surprises. Apparently, besides being predominantly Sicilian and French, there is another small percentage being listed as other, which some sites list as Belgium while others list as Iberian peninsula area. Since I am still researching my Sicilian ancestors, i have not found the point of immigration but I have found that there are Jewish/Sicilian surnames/culture in our family. We have names like Catalano, Rubbino, Amato...which I am still researching. I have found  Crypto Jewish families with those surnames but have not yet "connected the dots". 

Additionally, on my father's side, I found that my 10th g grandmother has a surname of David. The David lineage can be traced back to King David, BCE. I have verification back to 1150 AD and then 590 AD-King David. The reason there are records from 590 was that Hanani David was an Exilarch of the Jews in Babylon that year. Being the big guy meant that he got his name in the annals of Jewish history I guess. Also, on my father's side, my 8th g grandmother is said to have come from Israel but I cannot find any verificattion. Perhaps the family was CryptoJewish...

In a nutshell, these are my questions:

  • How do I fit in-on both sides of my parentage, it appears that I have Jewish roots. Since I am at least 4 generations out on my mother's side and 8-10 generations out on my fathers, how does that affect my Jewish ancestry? I realize that there are different ways to look at "Jewishness".  I'm speaking purely ethnically/culturally. 
  • How do I "connect the dots"- What do I look for and what types of records do I look for to fill in the gaps in my research? For example. My 4th g grandmother on my mother's side was a Rubbino. She is no one's daughter in Sicily or Italy. I'm trying to expand my search but I don't know where to start. I only know her as someones wife and can prove that. No birth record or death record as of yet.

Well, any leads or suggestions are welcome. I am hoping that my Jewish ancestry can also become part of my heritage as well.

Connie Derosier Carter
Kissimmee, FL, Leominster, MA

Re: Hebrew translation request #translation


I'd like to bring two corrections to what was already translated. 

The second name of the groom is Tzvi. 
The date mentioned is on the back of the document  relating maybe to when a copy of the original document was done. This does not seem to be an original ketubah, since it is lacking signatures. 

Inside the document, the date of the wedding is written as Wednesday 2nd Kislev 5662= November 13 1901 . 
Additionally the ketubah has the name of the place of the wedding, that I read as Harkhov, maybe referring to a place in Ukraine. 
Does this fit in the family story?

At the end of the ketuba, the names of the two witnesses are mentioned :
Abraham followed by a name I am not sure of and by the position of the witness as cantor of the local community. 
Abraham son of the deceased rabbi Aharon. 

Best regards  

Laurent Kassel 
Moreshet, Israel 

Re: Young Galician boys forced labor for Russian army during FIRST World War #galicia

Andrea Tzadik

ubject: Re: Young Galician boys forced labor for Russian army during FIRST World War #galicia
My Grandfather was 16 when the Russians came through and destroyed his Shtetle of Knyhnicze Ukraine.
They took all the men and boys from their Shtetle as well as those of the surrounding towns to Russia
to workcamps. They took his Grandfather, a Rabbi, 61 years old, and his cousin who was 6 years old.
They made them all walk to Kiev and from there they put them on trains to the workcamps.
In 1917 they came back to Tarnow where they stayed until 1918 when they were allowed to return to their
Andrea Tzadik

Re: Margolioth/Margulies rabbinic family from Galicia #rabbinic #galicia

Marion Bank

I don't know if this is helpful but there is a rabbinic family tree that can be found at and goes back to Posen in the 1500's. It does not go beyond the mid 1800's.
In my mother's family tree I have Rabbi Samuel Hirsch Margulis (1858-1922). He was chief Rabbi in Florence, Italy, and there is a lot of information about him. My mother actually met him on a number of occasions in Berlin, where she lived.
I would be interested in finding out if there is any relationship between him and the people that you are researching. Apparently the name of Rabbi Samuel's ancestors was spelled Margolioth, but I have no names other than his wife, Recha Rosenthal Margulies, my mother's aunt.
Marion Bank
Corte Madera, CA

Re: King David Cemetery, Queens #usa


Did you call the cemetery office at Beth David? We found a number of relatives buried in NY cemeteries who did not show up in online searches.
Jeff Goldner
Researching Goldner, Singer, Neuman, Braun, Schwartz, Gluck, Reichfeld (Hungary/Slovakia); Adler, Roth, Ader (Galicia); Soltz/Shultz/Zuckerman/Zicherman (Vitebsk, maybe Lithuania)

Re: King David Cemetery, Queens #usa


It might be Beth David which is just over the city line in Elmont, Nassau County.

Jessica Schein

looking for information regarding a French cousin - Frédérique ( or Frédéric ) Sternberg #france #records

Aline Petzold

Hello All:
 I am looking for information about my father's oldest brother's child, Frédérique, or Frédéric Sternberg.  I know that my father's oldest brother, Daniel ( aka Nilou) Sternberg was born in Stefanesti or Botosani Romania in1898.  I know that he emigrated to France  and was naturalized in 1947.  I also know that he married a French girl, Denise Gratienne Levallois.  I know that they had a son or daughter Frédéric/que  in the mid or late 1950s.  I would love to find more details about this family, i.e. the date of Daniel and Gratienne's marriage,  if Daniel and Gratienne died in France ( and if so where and when) and lastly, whether their child was a son or daughter and when the child was born.  I have tried to find this information in the French Archives, but they are difficult to navigate ( even with my fluent knowledge of French) since I have no idea of the arrondissment they lived in.  I am hoping to be able to contact my French cousin if he/she is still living.
Thanks for your help.
Aline Petzold
St. Paul MN

Tombstone photo request #romania

Daniel Horowitz

I am in need of a tombstone picture from the New Jewish Cemetery in Bucharest, Romania (Giurgiuli Cemetery, Giurgiuli St. 162)
I have the exact location of the burial. Contact me privately.

Many thanks in advance
Daniel Horowitz

Stanley Diamonds lecture of DNA assisted genealogy #dna


It would be wonderful if Stanley would allow us to read  a transcript of his lecture.

It is very difficult to catch anything in real time from USA to Israel, because it means being up at strange brain free hours of our night.

As one of his many admirers I would really love to learn some more from him.

Ros Romem



Re: Stanley Diamond lecture on DNA-assisted discoveries #dna #poland

Victoria Barkoff

The Stanley Diamond lecture on DNA-assisted discoveries is open to all. It will be on Monday, November 23 at 7:30 PM Eastern time. Link to the live stream:
If all goes well, there should be a recording of the presentation on the JGS-Montreal You Tube channel within a day or two. Same link.

Victoria Barkoff

Re: King David Cemetery, Queens #usa

Adam Turner

It it possible that they confused the name of the cemetery with the name of the burial society in whose section they are buried within a larger cemetery? My ancestors are buried in the Crown of David Sick and Benevolent Association section of Mount Zion Cemetery in Queens; it appears this burial society also purchased sections of other Queens cemeteries (Montefiore, Mount Carmel, etc.).

Adam Turner 

Re: Volunteer cememtery project from home #records

Ed Vogel

I would be happy to help with this project.  I'm currently unemployed and have plenty of time.  I'm very familiar with spreadsheets and have done gravestones previously.  My Hebrew is good enough for simple inscriptions and I'm familiar with the Jewishgen "Reading Hebrew Tombstones" web page.


Ed Vogel

Re: Records for Ellis Island deportations #records

Mary Henderson

Hi, Marian and group!

Marian - thank you so much for going to such effort, and detailing your efforts for us, regarding the deportation of Ettel and Riwke Rand!  I so appreciate your efforts and also letting the group know what your methodology is.  This has been a really interesting case to work on - I've learned a lot.  One interesting tidbit is that Ettel and Riwke were, of course, both deported, but Ettel Rand turned right around and hopped back on the same ship she was deported on, for it's next trip back to NYC, where she was admitted to the US through Ellis Island.

I was able to get the file numbers for Ettel and Riwke Rand and now have a request in to NARA to see if the records still exist.  I'll keep the group posted on what transpires from my request. 

But here's a golden nugget - I got the file numbers - at no cost! - by emailing the USCIS History Office and Library:

They were super helpful - they sent me the note card on the case with the file number and also told me the Records Group number, and Entry number that would allow NARA to find the records, if they exist.  The person that sent me this said they had had a "discussion" about this in their office, and that they would like me to let them know if I find anything further - so they really took an interest in this - and it really made my day.  So I think the  USCIS History Office and Library can be a really valuable resource, and might help us avoid the high costs of doing a USCIS search, at least perhaps in certain circumstances.  

Mary Henderson


Re: Records for Ellis Island deportations #records


There was good news for Ethel Rand. Upon her return to Rotterdam on the Statendam she quickly re-booked passage to New York on the same ship. She arrived at Ellis Island as Ittel Rand on Feb 6, 1908  The manifest shows her as having been in NY in December, 1907. This time she faced the BSI for LPC.  She was admitted at 1:45 on the same day.

David Rosen
Boston, MA

On 11/20/2020 2:30 PM, Marian via wrote:
I’ve been thinking about your question for a long time, wondering how to answer in a simple way.  This is my long-winded attempt:
Several of the replies below have good information that helps.  For example, David stressed the importance of examining the List of Aliens Held for Special Inquiry to look for clues, and includes the caveat that “only a few BSI hearing records survive.”  That is true.  Only cases where the decision of the Board of Special Inquiry was appealed survive.
But when I went to look at the BSI List for your Ettel and Riwke Rand, I saw a big clue—a stamp (upside down) saying “HOLD ON APPEAL.”  So there was an appeal in their case.  If that file survives it should be at the National Archives in Washington, DC.  But it cannot be requested without a file number.
Another reply came from Wendy, who was able to obtain just such a file from NARA after obtaining information from USCIS.  My guess is USCIS searched their internal index upon Wendy’s request and replied by providing her the file number needed for NARA to locate the file.  But can we find Ettel Rand’s file number without asking USCIS?  In many cases, yes.
First, I searched the INS Subject Correspondence index 1906-1957 (T458), now searchable by name on here.  I searched by name (Rand, R*nd, etc.) and found nothing.  I was unable to search on the cause of exclusion (health condition) because we didn’t know what ailed her/them.  I searched the ship name (RYNDAM, RJINDAM, etc.) and learned the first card for that ship is dated May 1908.  So your Rand case seems to be too early for the INS Subject Index/T458.
So second, I searched the INS Name Index ca. 1893-1932, which actually dates ca. 1898-1903 with some as late as 1911.  This index is made of two parts (two indexes, really) and ONE part is digitized and searchable in the NARA online catalog here.  But again, I could not find any reference to Ettel or Riwke Rand.  [The other half/other index is digitized and being indexed by NARA staff, who are working hard.  Perhaps those cards cover the time period you need?  Time will tell.]
Not giving up, I went back to the December 1907 RYNDAM passenger list, specifically to the BSI lists at the end, and looked for other passengers who were deported or might have had an appeal.  Usually, if I can find a few other cases from the same ship I can find at least one of those names in the INS Subject Index or the Name Index (both discussed above).  The reason I do so is because all the appeal cases from New York (or any other port) were forwarded in batches (or bunches) to Washington, DC.  In Washington, INS typically assigned all the files in a batch with consecutive numbers.  Thus if I can find another case from that day I can identify a file number very close to the one I seek.  Usually.
In this case I could not find any of the names of deported passengers from the RYNDAM.  So I searched for ships before and after, first from the same day, then a day before and day after.  Still no luck.  What I learned is there is a gap in the indices from late 1907 to early 1908.  I do not know why.  I assume the files are there but are not indexed by anything publicly available.
There is a good chance USCIS could find the reference in their Master Index and provide you the needed number.  Sadly that means a USCIS Genealogy Program Index Search Request ($65).  If you submit a request to USCIS, include a note or comment that you especially want them to look for “an archives card.”
Marian Smith
p.s.  I did have one other idea, but it would not provide the needed appeal file number.  Correspondence FROM Ellis Island from 1903 to 1912 survives (tissue copies) at NARA in Washington, DC, catalog record here.  It is filed chronologically with many letters outgoing each day, including the cover letters transmitting appeals to Washington.  The first hearing in Ettel’s case was Dec 11th, something was withdrawn Dec. 17th, and deportation took place Jan 7th.  Searching these would require starting at December 11, 1907 and reading forward (for maybe a week?) looking for the letter naming Ettel Rand.  The letter itself would be boilerplate and, as I said, would not provide the file number needed.  But it would give a good idea of the date when the file was opened in Washington (1 or 2 days after the date of the Ellis Island letter).

Re: Margolioth/Margulies rabbinic family from Galicia #rabbinic #galicia

Dan Rottenberg

The only connection  I can think of between Perlmutter and Margolioth is this: The name Margolioth/Margulies comes from the Hebrew word margalith, which comes from the Greek word for pearl. Several scholarly books says the name indicates descent from a woman named Pearl or some variation. Indeed, the Margolioth rabbinic dynasty is traced back to a 15th-century couple named Moses and Margala Marmonda. Their son, Jacob Margolioth of Nuremberg (1420?-1492?), was the first to bear the Margolioth surname. Presumably he took it as a tribute to his mother, Margala, who might also have been known as Pearl.
Dan Rottenberg
Philadelphia PA USA

Can anyone help me identify this couple from FERRAMONTI INTERNMENT CAMP ITALY 1943? #austria-czech #germany #hungary #israel #slovakia


Hello Genners

While editing my late father's book about his experiences in the Italian internment camp Ferramonti di Tarsia, I came across many references to and photos of the couple in the photos attached. What I know is that the woman was German speaking, the man was from Zagreb. He was considerably older than her and diabetic and they were childless. When many internees fled the camp after it was mistakenly hit by friendly fire in July 1943, my father and this couple escaped to an Albanian village in the hills. They returned to the camp a couple of months later when the allies liberated the camp in September 1943. The couple apparently went to Bari in Puglia to await a ship to take them to Israel maybe? I have no idea. My father gave them the fictitious names of Arnold and Su Springer but I have reason to believe her name began with the letter M which I have found on the back of several of her photos. I have a lock of her hair but I am told it is not possible to get a DNA test as there is no follicle and the hair is old...what a shame...I do love a good detective story but I am running out of time. 

If anyone recognises them or the story please let me know...I have many more photos of the lady but not of her husband.
Thank you so much!

Yolanda Ropschitz-Bentham

Re: Vital records from Bessarabia. #bessarabia #records

Yefim Kogan

Hello Steve,  I am addressing this to the whole group, because I am getting similar questions.

In order to find out what towns/year of data we have translated and loaded to JewishGen databases, the best is to get to the Introductory pages for that database.  In case of Steve's question, it is Bessarabia Vital records.  When you do a search, you can see all the databases, including Bessarabia Vital records, with the Introductory pages for the set you searching.  Here is a direct link for this Introductory pages database:   but again,  the links to Introductory pages you can easily get
It is clear from it, that we have birth records not only for Kishinev, but also Beltsy, Bendery, Novoselitsa and a number of smaller places, like Kaushany, Romanovka. Gancheshty, etc. etc.

If you follow our latest discoveries, we acquired many sets of records from Bessarabia, and soon will start uploading completed sets.  We have now about 3,000+ records from Bendery and Bendery uezd, several hundred from Soroki uezd, and more.

Same you find with any other databases, like Bessarabia Revision Lists, etc.

All the best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Yefim Kogan

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