Re: Searching OGONTZ-OGINZ, Massachusetts, USA #usa


Hallo Joel, 
Regarding your questions about David and Indie Ogontz:
- According to the 1900 census Indie was born in 1891 and not 1893.
- According to the 1930 census she and David Ogontz got married in 1929 or early 1930.

- I believe that this was David's second marriage - his first wife was, as you write,  Rebecca.  

- in the 1940 census David was listed living  alone, but married and not divorced.
- I couldn't find David's death date. Considering the fact that his name appears in city didirectori until late 1960, he most probably died during the 60s or early 70s in Massachusetts. Apparently both of them are burried in Massachusetts. 
I hope that all these will be helpful to you in some way. 
Giannis Daropoulos 


Re: Name changed in London before coming to US, searching for original name #names

Jill Anderson


if the name was changed officially” by deed poll” there will be a record of that in the London Gazette.

Jill Anderson

Re: Jewish Matzeva (Tombstone) Stonemasons? #slovakia

ellen fine

I found your search for stone mason guilds and training very interesting. This week a friend posted photos on his fb page of the stone cutters and 
craft guildsmen of Italian origin who lived in Barre, Vermont and created quite a community. They were not Jewish. However, a thought comes to mind that perhaps there were immigrant corners of immigrant Jewish people who were employed in the task in the making and engraving of graves stones and markers.  Would it be valuable to follow a path of these artisans in this country, Canada, England and France another countries to see if some of these families were multi generational and some came to North America to work in this profession here?
Incidentally, my friend was so moved to photograph some of the graves and memorials because the people buried underneath died during the last Pandemic, the Influenza Epidemic of 2018 and onwards, noting the beauty of the work and the tragedy of their deaths during a Pandemic
I hope these thoughts are helpful,
Ellen Fine

Expedited Death Certificate Order from Albany, NY #usa

Arnon Hershkovitz

Hello, Dear JG Colleagues,
I was wondering if anyone knows of an expedited way for obtaining copies of Death Certificates - for genealogical purposes - from Albany, NY. The DCs I need are from 1939 and 1964.
May hiring a local researcher help?
I did send a standard mail request about 5 months ago, however nothing arrived so far...
I know that everything is slower-than-usual these days due to the COVID situation, which makes my question more-than-usual relevant, as I have some urgency in these copies.
Arnon Hershkovitz

Claims Conference Online Publication of Belgium's Library Seizures Stolen by Nazis #announcements #holocaust

Jan Meisels Allen



The Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany (Claims Conference) and the World Jewish Restitution Organization (WJRO) announced the publication of Documenting Nazi Library Plunder in Occupied Belgium and Limited Postwar Retrieval. The publication features data about Belgian library collections stolen by the Nazis during World War II. Information about the contents of those collections is now available in digital format online for the first time. The library materials were taken from victims of the Holocaust more than 75 years ago by the Einsatzstab Reichsleiter Rosenberg (ERR)—the Nazi agency organized by Hitler’s ideological spokesman, Alfred Rosenberg. During its operations, the ERR deliberately and methodically identified private libraries of individuals and institutions that contained important cultural and historical knowledge, and plundered materials that were curated over many careers and lifetimes. From August 1940 to February 1943, the ERR conducted 150 library seizure operations across Belgium that included an estimated 250,000 – 300,000 volumes of books.


It’s a two-part publication and includes ERR wartime library seizure lists which document the looted collections’ content extensive charts naming all the victims, and combined data regarding the 150 ERR seizure operations.


The publication focuses on the private libraries in Belgium filled with collections of cultural knowledge that were confiscated from Jews, Masons, political elite, liberal professors, labor and socialist sources, and more, often with considerable archived materials (and sometimes art) that were shipped to Germany between the fall of 1940 and the summer of 1944. Large portions of the combined library loot were shipped to the former Soviet Union, where they remain today. Other portions were dispersed throughout Eastern Europe.


Part 1 of the publication, now issued online, is based on the ERR Belgian office files that surfaced in Kyiv in the 1990s, long hidden in Ukraine as part of the most extensive surviving collection of ERR records from Europe.


Part two focuses on the repatriation of libraries to Belgium after they were retrieved by Allied forces. Some were nationalized and sent to other countries, while others are featured in state or national libraries in Russian and Belarus - some dedicated to the Holocaust victims they were taken from.


The links for aforementioned may be obtained by going to:


To read more see:


Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Re: Help in figuring out a name #names


I believe it says Becher
Giannis Daropoulos 


Looking for Grieff family member from Lithuania that married a Gordon, Haskel or Oshman in Lithuania #lithuania #usa #poland #russia


I am looking to find  a relationship between Grieff ( with variations like Graf, Gref, Grif) and Haskel, Oshman or Gordon. The families lived in Suwalki, that was in Poland/Lithuania/Prussia/Kaliningrad-Russia. The DNA shows a relationship at the 2nd-3rd cousin level and so far no family tree shows any relationship.

Angel Kosfiszer
Richardson, Texas

Re: Kogan/Kagan #ukraine

Madeleine Isenberg

I'm not sure what the issues are in the Ukraine, but if it was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire at the time, often Jews would marry according to Jewish tradition (with a ketubah) and not civilly.  As a result, when children were born, they would not be registered under the father's name; they were noted as being unehelich or illegitimate and recorded with the mother's maiden name.  So if she happened to have been born a KOHEN/KOHAN/KOHN etc., the child would bear that name.

Some families did later undergo civil marriages and the names might then have reverted to the father's name, or not.

Madeleine Isenberg
Beverly Hills, CA
Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN, STOTTER in various parts of Galicia, Poland
(Nowy Targ, Nowy Sanz, Wachsmund, Dembno, Lapuszna, Krakow, Ochotnica) who migrated into Kezmarok or
nearby towns in northern Slovakia and Czech Republic (i.e., those who lived/had businesses in Moravska Ostrava);
GOLDSTEIN in Sena or Szina, Szkaros and Kosice, Slovakia; Tolcsva and Tokaj, Hungary.

Workshop: Researching Your Bessarabian and Transnistria Jewish Roots with #ukraine #JewishGenUpdates #bessarabia

Yefim Kogan

We invite you to attend free workshop presented by speakers Inna Vayner and Yefim Kogan

Workshop: Researching Your Bessarabian and Transnistria 

Jewish Roots with

SUNDAY, December 13, 2020
12:00 PM EST

In this participatory workshop, we will share how to best search the JewishGen databases, as well as Along the way, we will share histories, resources, data, and research tips to help each other research Jewish Genealogy in the region of the Bessarabia gubernia of the former Russian Empire (including parts of today's Moldova and Ukraine) as well as today's Transnistria region with sections of Kherson and Podolia gubernias. *Requires a JewishGen account and access to a computer.

About Inna Vayner & Yefim Kogan leaders and coordinators of Bessarabia group at JewishGen
Inna Vayner was born in Tiraspol, Moldova and immigrated with her family to the United States in 2002. Inna is co-Director of the JewishGen Bessarabia Research Division, and is also a professional genealogist and a founder of 

Yefim Kogan was born in Kishinev, Moldova. After immigrating from the USSR in 1989 he has engaged in extensive genealogical and historical research. Yefim is co-Director of the JewishGen Bessarabia Research Division - which he organized in 2011 - and continues to work on multiple projects and present at conferences. In 2012, he received a Master in Jewish Liberal Studies from Hebrew College Boston, with a focus on Jewish Cultural History.  

Advance Registration Required!

Please click the above link


After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about how to join the webinar.

Questions? Go to:

Re: Maryland cemetery search #usa

Friedman, H George lists his SSDI:

Name    Yehuda J. Barch
Birth    11 Jul 1935
Death    15 Sep 2002
Residence    1951-1952 Indiana

Also his Department of Veterans Affairs BIRLS Death File, 1850-2010
Name    Yehuda Barch
Birth    11 Jul 1935
Death    6 Sep 2002
Military  13 Jul 1956
Other    8 Jul 1959

I hope that's the person you're looking for.  Good luck.

George Friedman

Jewish Matzeva (Tombstone) Stonemasons? #slovakia

Madeleine Isenberg

Hi Everyone,

Over the years that I have been reading the engraved inscriptions on matzevot, I discovered that some stonemasons "signed" their works or maybe it was a form of advertising since it sometimes had an associated town where they had their workshops, or both.  I'm trying to focus on a time period of roughly 1800-World War II, and anywhere in the world.  (We know that in contemporary times, once someone provides the format of the lettering, anyone with the current power tools and templates, could do the work.)

I have quite a list of such craftsmen, mostly in Slovakia, but some in nearby countries (Hungary, Croatia, Austria, Poland), from where people preferred to "import" their matzevot.

Unfortunately, I have not had much success if locating descendants of such craftsmen, or if I did, these descendants have no information about how such a mason gained his training, how well they supported their families.  I jokingly say, I have yet to find someone who wrote, "Memoirs of a Jewish Stonemason."

Here are a few questions and I will probably have more:

  1. Was such a monumental stonemason apprenticed to a guild? 
  2. Were Jews permitted to join such guilds?
    1. If so, when were they allowed to join?
  3. What additional Jewish knowledge did they need to ensure that inscriptions were grammatically correct?
  4. Did people by-pass a rabbinic authority and go directly to the stonemason?
    1. Some places might have had a Chevra Kadisha who approved of the proposed content and did they check the final product?
  5. What imagery did they use and what did they avoid?  (Some Sephardic stones had imagery not as constrained as Ashkenazi).  

Despite trying to research online and read many articles, it has been very difficult to pinpoint any useful details.

So, anyone out there -- any suggestions?
Madeleine Isenberg
Beverly Hills, CA
Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN, STOTTER in various parts of Galicia, Poland
(Nowy Targ, Nowy Sanz, Wachsmund, Dembno, Lapuszna, Krakow, Ochotnica) who migrated into Kezmarok or
nearby towns in northern Slovakia and Czech Republic (i.e., those who lived/had businesses in Moravska Ostrava);
GOLDSTEIN in Sena or Szina, Szkaros and Kosice, Slovakia; Tolcsva and Tokaj, Hungary.

Jewish Genealogical Society New York December 20 Meeting #announcements #jgs-iajgs

Phyllis Rosner

Jewish Genealogical Society NY Meeting
Sunday December 20, 2020 at 2 p.m.
Zoom Webinar

From Lithuania to Brooklyn: Preserving a Family Collection & History    

Speaker: Diana Korzenik

Brooklyn native Dr. Diana Korzenik first conceived of her book, Lithuania to Brooklyn, The Rabbi Daniel and Minnie Shapiro Family, as a way to preserve and document her collection of her maternal grandparents’ family objects now in New York’s Yeshiva University Museum. In that process she uncovered facts about the treasures  and the pains  of her grandparents' and parents’ lives, revelations that signal a departure from her family’s years of silence about the Old World, so familiar to many immigrant families.

Dr. Korzenik will first detail the process she followed in learning how to preserve her family collection. Then she will describe surprises in the stages of her construction of the family narrative. She begins with the family in Lithuania, fleshing out her grandfather’s Lithuanian rabbinic education, then turns toward rabbis’ debates about pros and cons of leaving, and challenges of getting to America. Once on New York’s Lower East Side and then in early 20th-century Brooklyn, both Rabbi and Rebbetzin Shapiro significantly contribute to Brooklyn’s Orthodox Jewish education and social services amidst the diverse pressures of Americanization.

Bonni-Dara Michaels, Collections Curator, Yeshiva University Museum, will speak briefly about the Museum’s acquisition policy and Dr. Korzenik’s donation of the Shapiro Family Collection.

Dr. Diana Korzenik, a writer and artist with paintings in museums as well as private collections, is professor emerita at Massachusetts College of Art. Her two prize-winning books, Drawn to Art: A Nineteenth-Century American Dream (1985) and Objects of American Art Education: Highlights from the Diana Korzenik Collection (2004), were based on collections she amassed for research, collections now, respectively, at the American Antiquarian Society and the Huntington Library. In addition to the Shapiro Family Collection, she created three additional research collections now held at the New England Historical Genealogical Society and two other institutions.

All are welcome; attendance is free, but registration is required:

Submitted by:
Phyllis Rosner
JGSNY VP Communications
New York, NY

Maryland cemetery search #usa

Trudy Barch

Hi everyone,


I have a father, Yehuda Barch that died in 2002 in Maryland and his son Russell Barch that died in 1996 in Maryland.   I do not know where they are buried therefore having a difficult time locating the cemetery name.   There are many cemeteries in that state that I don’t know where to start.   All suggestions where I should begin my search would be appreciated.


Thank you,   Trudy Barch,  FLorida

Rabbi Jacob DOLGINOS- N.Y.C. early 20th cent. #rabbinic #usa

Yonatan Ben-Ari

I have a picture of my late father-in-law, Rabbi Moshe (Morris) JERUSHALMY
with a scribble stating the name Rabbi Dolginos. I understand that
there was a Rabbi Jacob DOLGINOS who served during the early part of
the 20th cent. in NYC and I would like to identify the people in the

If there are relatives of Rabbi Dolginos on this forum please contact me.


Yoni Ben-Ari, Jerusalem

SALMENSON/SCHNEERSON, BERSE Piet Retief #southafrica


My grandfather Israel Herman Salmenson born 1877 in Kaunas apparently changed his name from Schneerson on arrival. Although I have documentation of his South African life (nationalization, marriage & death) I am unable to to confirm his name was Schneerson and cannot find any information prior to arriving in SA. In 1909 he married Jeanie (Shaina) Berse born in Rokiskis 1881.
Herman Salmenson

Help in figuring out a name #names


On Line 8 Column 11, I cannot figure out the name of Levy Teitler's brother.  It looks like Prechel, but that does not seem to be a Yiddish or Hebrew name?  Any thoughts?
Martin Kaplan

Searching OGONTZ-OGINZ, Massachusetts, USA #usa

Scooby Doo

Dear Fellow Genners,

Never underestimate the value of Newspapers in helping with your "Brick Walls".
I have been searching various branches of my Welsh Jewish Family that settled in the USA in the mid 1880's
I have managed to track down the descendants of 5 siblings, but couldn't get any further with one of the siblings, who appears as Inder|Inde|Hinda in various documents.
When I asked a granddaughter of one of Inder's siblings if she knew of any of her grandmother's siblings, she said she didn't know any of them but when I mentioned the name, Hinda/Inder, she said that name did sound familiar, but that's all she could tell me.
This week I found an online newspaper Obituary for one of the siblings, Harry Bertell ( Born Henry Bertelesteine) (Most family members went by Bertlestein/Bertelstein), who died on 31 October 1967 in Kenneth City, Florioda.
The Obituary mentions he was originally from Massachusetts.
It also mentions a sister named Indie Ogontz of Boston as a surviving member of his family.
So I finally found her married surname.
I used online directories and discovered that she was married to a David Ogontz and they lived in Boston, MA.
I found a death date online for Indie|Inde: 5 November 1972, Boston, MA. (She was born on 3 September 1893, Hyde Park, MA, USA)
I have found online records for a David Jacob Ogontz, who was married to a Rebecca and they had a few kids. They also appeared to have lived in Massachusetts at some stage as well
I don't know whether this is the same David Ogontz who married my relative or not.
Indie/Inde could well have been a second wife, but dates and timings of certain records appear to discount this.
On David Jacob Ogontz's WWII Draft Card- he notes the person who will always know his address as Isaac OGINZ of cambridge, MA.
This strongly suggests that Ogontz & Oginz are variations of the same surname and that David & Isaac were somehow related.
I have found no marriage details for Indie & David , no death certificate for either of them nor have I found any references as to where they might have been buried/cremated?
I have also found no references to any kids they might have had, but I have a feeling they didn't have any kids.
I would be most grateful if anyone can add any further information about this couple: where they might be buried, if they had any kids or  even knowledge of any extended family who might be able to help me further.
Happy Chanukah
Dr Joel Levy, London UK.

Re: Mandselshteyn - Starokonstantinov #ukraine #names #records


From Starokonstantinov 1834, 1850, 1858 censuses

1834 DAZhO 118-14-268
ID * Name * Relationship * Previous age * Current Age
764 * Mandelshteyn Khaim s.o. Itsko * head * 39 * 1825
764 * Mandelshteyn Leya * wife * - * 40
764 * Mandelshteyn Itsek * son * 15 * 33
764 * Mandelshteyn Khaya * Itsek's wife * - 30
764 * Mandelshteyn Malya * daughter * - * 12
764 * Mandelshteyn Avrum * son * - * 16
764 * Mandelshteyn Ester-Deyra [2 middle characters are unclear, but probably should be Dvoyra] * Avrum's wife * - * 16
764 * Mandelshteyn Mikhel * son * - * 14
764 * Mandelshteyn Moyshe * son * - * ? [possibly 8]
764 * Mandelshteyn Zus * son * 10 [in 1816] * died in 1827
764 * Mandelshteyn Barukh * son * 2.5 * died in 1824
1850 DAZhO 118-14-276
ID * Name * Relationship * Previous age * Current Age
323 * Mandelshteyn Itsko s.o. Khaim * head * 33 * 49
323 * Mandelshteyn Khaya * wife * - * 46
323 * Mandelshteyn Abramko * brother * 16 * 32
323 * Mandelshteyn Basya * SIL (Abramko's wife) * - * 25
323 * Mandelshteyn Itsko * nephew (Abram's son) * - * 14
323 * Mandelshteyn Khaya * niece (Abram's daughter) * - * 1/2
323 * Mandelshteyn Moshko * brother * 8 * sent to military in 1839
323 * Mandelshteyn Mikhel * brother * 14 * currently not present
323 * Mandelshteyn Ester * SIL (Mikhel's wife) * - * 30
323 * Mandelshteyn Srul * nephew (Mikhel's son) * - * currently not present
763 * Mandelshteyn Mikhel * - * 14 * 27
763 * Mandelshteyn Srul * son * - * 7
Itsko is also mentioned on the errata page with the note saying that instead of indicating his age as 4, they wrote 14.
1858 DAZhO 118-14-293
ID * Name * Relationship * Previous age * Current Age
498 * Mandelshteyn Itsko s.o. Khaim * head * 49 * died in 1852
498 * Mandelshteyn Abramko * brother * 32 * 40
498 * Mandelshteyn Basya * SIL * - * 33
498 * Mandelshteyn Itsko * nephew (son of Abramko) * 4 * 12
498 * Mandelshteyn Khaya * niece * - * 8.5
498 * Mandelshteyn Reyzya * niece * - * 4
498 * Mandelshteyn Khantsya * niece * - * 3
498 * Mandelshteyn Khasya * niece * - * 1
914 * Mandelshteyn Mekhel s.o. Khaim * head * 30 * 38
914 * Mandelshteyn Ester * wife * - 38
914 * Mandelshteyn Srul * son * 7 * 15

Mike Vayser

Memories of Migration: Between Personal and Collective Experience - Webinar, Sunday, December 27, 11:00 AM EST #announcements #events #education

N. Kotz

Join the AFHU and the Jewish Geneology Society of Greater Washington (JGSGW) for Memories of Migration: Between Personal and Collective Experience on Sunday, December 27 at 11:00 AM EST.

The large-scale migration of Jews across continents and oceans is one of the most characteristic features of the modern Jewish narrative. What do we now know about the reasons and the circumstances that guided millions of Jewish migrants around the globe? What has been the role of the United States, its Jewish community, and other countries around the world in these migrations?

Please join American Friends of the Hebrew University for a presentation and Q & A by Stephen S. Wise Professor of American Jewish History and Institutions at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and chair of the Department of Jewish History and Contemporary Jewry, Eli Lederhendler.

Registration is required. Visit for more information and to register.

Nancy Kotz
VP for Communicaitons, JGSGW

Re: tens of thousands members "family trees" in Ancestry #announcements #general #education


I have found about a dozen of these for my own extended  family on Ancestry.  They are called Family Groups. 

From Google:
Definition A family group record is created to show at least the names of the husband, wife, and children of a family. Most family group records also show birth, marriage, and death information, additional spouses (if any) of the parents, and children's spouses.

The family group records I have seen usually include the source of a particular piece of information.  You can see if the source is as good as the one you have. If it is better than yours you have gained something.  My experience is that the family group record has something like an immigration date taken from a census while I have the ship's manifest itself.  Rather than being disturbed, I offer to send the person a link to the document. 

David Rosen
Boston, MA

On 12/8/2020 10:44 AM, Teewinot wrote:
Hi Angel,

Have you come across "family trees" in Ancestry with tens of thousands
of members that are not a tree but what looks a collection of disjointed
small family trees? They seem to be related to DNA investigations. Any
idea why anybody would do this?
Yes, I have. They have my close family members, but have them married
to people who are not my family. And best of all, it says we're not
even a DNA match! I have no idea what that's all about, but I find it

Jeri Friedman
Port Saint Lucie, Florida

4741 - 4760 of 658037