Re: Turkish or Sabbatean Jews and Jews from Salonika #general

David Harrison

Sherri and Robin
Why not use the correct name of Thessaloniki?  It might help.
David Harrison , England (who has been to Thessaloniki several times)

From: main@... <main@...> on behalf of Sherri Bobish <sherribob@...>
Sent: 20 February 2021 04:40
To: main@... <main@...>
Subject: Re: [] Turkish or Sabbatean Jews and Jews from Salonika #general


Have you checked if has vital or other types of records from those regions?


Sherri Bobish

Re: Ajfer Wasserzug #general

David Lewin

I do not understand.   I am searching for a  genealogy containing my Lucia Ajfer/Wasserzug who was murdered by the Nazis

David Lewin

At 16:42 20/02/2021, Robert Heuman wrote:
And almost all burials before 2013 are now in the international database for Jewish Cemeteries, if the individual was buried in any of the Toronto area cemeteries. I personally am now working on 2013 to the present for the last of the cemeteries that needs to be updated. That will give you the date of the funeral, place of death if that was known, and the company that did the funeral, which should aid in finding the death certificate. Death may have been outside Toronto, or even outside Canada, yet the burial would have been in Toronto or the 'GTA' as the Greater Toronto Area is known. The newest Jewish cemeteries for Toronto are all north of the city in York county, in the Vaughan area, yet are considered Toronto cemeteries. And there is actually a third funeral home, Hebrew Basic, that may have handled the funeral. - - and their web site lists all of the cemeteries.

Robert Heuman

On 2021-02-20 8:45:08 AM, rachel.steinhouse@... <rachel.steinhouse@...> wrote:

I have Wasserzug in my Margel family from Britain. 

I also live in Toronto and I saw that you are looking for a death certificate.  If the death was in the last 30 years or more, you can go onto the 2 burial sites, Benjamin’s park memorial Or Steeles Memorial and go into their archives. You could then request a death certificate.

Rachel Margel Steinhouse

Re: Looking for members of the Magentza/Magientze family of Suwalki, Poland #general #lithuania #poland


Many thanks to everyone that responded to my request. Read on to find out a very unexpected outcome to my search.

The Magience/Magiendzo Story and the tail of two cities (Suwalki and Marijampole)


For many decades I have been researching  Maria's, my wife's, Haskel/Goldstein/Gordon very large families of Suwalki, Marijampole and Vilkaviskis, areas that historically belonged to Germany, Poland, Lithuania and Russia.

I spent many hours researching the daunting stories that includes first and second world wars, mainly the one involving two Goldstein sisters that were born in Marijampole and then lived in Suwalki. One of the sisters, Sheina Goldstein, went to visit her aunt Sonia Haskel Gordon, that had separated from his husband Eliasz Gordon in Suwalki. Sonia had two sons, one of which was Yecheskel Gordon. Sheina fell in love and married a young man from San Petersburg by the last name Mielnik, a store owner in Suwalki. Soon after Helena (Lucy) was born to the young couple, and not long after that, Sheina fell ill with the Spanish flu (around 1918) and died. Her husband was so distraught by his loss that spent hours and hours at the grave of her beloved wife and soon after was also dead. Mary Libe Goldstein, mother of Sheina, had seen most of her many children leave for the USA. Only Moshe, Fanny, and little Mildred born in 1911 where with her in Marijampole. Fanny had papers and was ready to leave for America when she was asked by her mother to take care of Lucy and marry an older brother of her sister Sheina's husband, that went to Suwalki to carry on the business that his brother left. Fanny did not want, but ended up agreeing to the marriage. When Mary Liba's husband Chaim Shimon died in 1925 she left and joined her oldest daughter in New York, and Mildred went to Canada in 1926. Very soon after in 1929 Moshe, that was already married,  left Marijampole after graduating as a chemical engineer and Yeheskel Gordon left Suwalki also in 1929 for Argentina.

Lucy loved playing the piano and was brought up in Suwalki by her aunt Fanny, that had a daughter of her own called Malka. Lucy married a dentist and moved to Warsaw, and had a daughter. Lucy and her family,  Fanny and her family and Sonia were all murdered in the Holocaust.

While I was doing my decades long research something was always a mystery. According to my wife Maria, daughter of Yeheskel Gordon, her mother showed  pictures of Lucy and her cousin Malka growing up in Suwalki and always "heard" their family name was Magience. In all my research, that includes a recorded interview with Mildred Goldstein, I never found a reference to Magience. Notice there were at least three women (Lucy and her daughter, and Malka) that may have married a Magience.

Never the less I did a lot of research of the Magience family and found out they were a prominent family of Rabbis in Suwalki.. The head of the family, Benjamin, was also dayan (Jewish court) in Suwalki. He had three sons that moved to Israel, the USA and Chile. I contacted some of them giving them the information I had of the Haskel, Gordon and Goldstein families but the descendants could not tell me anything about their relationship to Magience.

And then, something happened that turned my Magience research upside down.

In cleaning up the many papers and photographs Maria has of her family, a simple note in Spanish written in Buenos Aires many years ago showed up. It read: "JOSE KALSTEIN'S SISTER MARRIED AN ITALIAN RABBI AND WENT TO CHILE".

Hearing the words RABBI and CHILE we looked at each other and smiled (well, I did!)

It did not take me long to find out that:

The Kalstein's were very good friends in Buenos Aires of Maria's father Yeheskel Gordon, and perhaps family from Suwalki, and

Luba Kalstein , Jose's sister. was the wife of Eliah Magiendzo, rabbi in Santiago, Chile.

Is it possible that there is still another link of the Magience to the Haskel, Goldstein, Gordon families through the three women that perished in the Holocaust?. Only time may tell.


Angel Kosfiszer

Richardson, Texas

Numbers on 1895 UK passenger list #unitedkingdom #general

Gail H. Marcus

Can someone explain the numbers that appear in the columns after "profession, occupation" on this passenger list?

Gail Marcus

DNA Matches - Most CentiMorgans or Largest Segment? #dna #education #poland #ukraine #galicia

Herbert Lazerow

    DNA matches are a combination of science and statistics.  Whenever statistics are involved, we are dealing with probabilities. The probability is that someone with whom you share a largest match of at least 35 cM is going to be related, but you will not always be able to prove it. That is because most of us who are descended from eastern European Jews cannot trace that descent back before our ancestors came to western Europe or North America, either because we do not know the town in which they lived in easern Europe, or because the records there were destroyed, or our ancestors neglected to register.
    Most genealogists have some cut-off below which they do not both with a match.  People have told me that they need a largest match block of 20 cMs plus a second block of at least 10 cMs to make the match worth investigating. I am likely to investigate any match of at least 25 cMs, but I recognize that at the end of the day, it is likely that we will say that the relationship has not been proven..
    Another check is to look for common matches. If we have common substantial matches with most people who have tested on one side of my family in addition to the match with me, I am interested; if someone matches one cousin out of 5 on my father's side and one cousin out of 4 on my mother's side, I am not so interested.
    Be aware that sometimes statistical  probability is just plain wrong. Most of my second cousins and second cousins once removed are in the 200-400 cM range on FamilyTree DNA, with a longest match in the 20 - 40 cM range. But I also have one known second cousin once removed where the match is 79/19.
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110 U.S.A.
(619)260-4597 office, (858)453-2388 cell, lazer@...
Author: Mastering Art Law (2d ed. Carolina Academic Press 2020)

Re: Understanding Vitals #ukraine #records


these records have no records to synagogue at all.  It was a state-appointed official, aka crown rabbi ( ), who was in charge of maintaining vital records.  All vital records from Jewish, Christian-Orthodox, Catholic, Muslim, etc officials were transferred to a newly established civil registration authorities around 1918-1920.  In Odessa that happened in 1919.
The additional dates you see in the records could have been when he requested an official transcript for some purpose, such as a University admission, internal passport, etc.

Mike Vayser

Florida sportscaster Rokeach of the Belz Dynasty #usa #general

Neil Rosenstein

Trying to make contact with the family of Gary Rokeach, the Florida
He was grandson of Rabbi R. Aryey Liebish Rokeach, Admur
Hrubieszow-New York, Tompkins Ave, Brooklyn, born in Hrubieszow on
March 18, 1889 and died on January 8, 1949.
Neil Rosenstein

Researching the family of Emil DAMMANN in Berlin #germany #holocaust


I'm researching the family of Emil Dammann (1871-1937) and his wife Agnes Mosheim Dammann (1886-1936). Emil was a private banker in Berlin (Emil Dammann & Co, established 1906) and eventually lived in a fine villa in the Grunewald neighborhood of Berlin (Wissmannstrasse 17). I have a good grip on the Mosheim line from Eldagsen, Germany, but have been unable to determine Emil's parents. Since he was a successful private banker, perhaps his family had done that before him. His wife Agnes was the daughter of a private banker in Eldagsen, and her mother, Adele, was a Dammann from Gehrden, so perhaps that is where Emil came from, though I have not been able to establish this. Their three sons, Egon, Guenther and Joachim, were all victims of the Holocaust in 1941 and 1942. The JewGen family tree for them lists another child, Lau, born before 1915, but I cannot confirm this (and it does not list Joachim). Any help on how to make progress would be appreciated!
Richard Hatch
Providence, Utah

Zalman Kotzin, in California #lithuania

Ted Kotzin

I am looking for Zalman Kotzin, son of Moishe-Beer and grandson of Todres.  He seems to have been here in California around 1920, but it may have bee earlie4r or later.  Note the names; our family, as is common, hase several people with the same name.


Ted Kotzin

Torrance CA



Sent from Mail for Windows 10


Additional Kiev Jewish metrical books posted to Ukrainian Archives website #ukraine #russia

Ted Gostin

This is an update to my post from last November 6, listing the Jewish metrical books (birth, marriage and death records) for Kiev city digitized by the Central State Historical Archives of Ukraine in Kiev that go beyond the books digitized by Alex Krakovsky.  Alex's page of Kiev city vital records can currently be found at:

The Ukrainian Archives had previously digitized the Jewish vital records up to 1901.  They have now posted additional books up through 1912.  The full list of Kiev Jewish metrical books digitized by the Ukrainian Archives can be found at:  These include the following books not found on Alex's website.  

Kiev Jewish births 1902 - book 2

Kiev Jewish births 1903

Kiev Jewish births 1905

Kiev Jewish births 1906

Kiev Jewish births 1911 - books 1 & 2

Kiev Jewish births 1912 - books 1 & 2

Kiev Jewish marriages 1904

Kiev Jewish marriages 1908 - books 1 & 2

Kiev Jewish marriages 1910 - books 1 & 2

Kiev Jewish marriages 1912 - books 1 & 2

Kiev Jewish deaths 1907

Kiev Jewish deaths 1912 - books 1 & 2

As with the previous message, several things should be noted.  First, the item numbers  (sprava numbers in Alex's page) are not the same on Alex's website and the Archives website.  It appears that the books were renumbered when the archives began doing their own scans, and so the "sprava" ("delo" in Russian) numbers are no longer the same as those on Alex's website.  The images, however, are of the same books listed on Alex's website, just with different "sprava" numbers.

Second, while Alex's scans are in the format of one large PDF file with images of all pages of one book, the Ukrainian Archives scans are in the format of one PDF scan per page.  This makes it very difficult to quickly download a full year's book.  The book can be reviewed page by page online, however, rather quickly with a fast internet connection, and the scans are of very high resolution.  They are in grayscale, though, as opposed to the color scans often found on Alex's website.  

Finally, while I haven't listed them here, the divorce books have also been digitized.

With the books now digitized on these two websites, researchers of Jewish families in Kiev now have access to all surviving Jewish birth, marriage, divorce and death records from Kiev city between 1863 and 1912.  Since so many Jewish Ukrainian families had family that ended up in Kiev at one time or another, this is a great book to Jewish researchers.

Ted Gostin
Sherman Oaks, CA

Seeking records for Szepes Co. #slovakia


I am researching a KLAUS family who lived in various locations in Szepes County, Hungary, including Jurgow, Hunfalu/Huncovce and possibly Poprad and Kesmark from at least the 1830s to the 1880s. I feel that I have mined all the records from JG and LDS at this point, including the 1848 Jewish census. I understand that the 1869 census did not cover all Szepes Co. Jewish communities (e.g., Poprad). Does anyone have any suggestions where else records for Szepes county may be found? Is there anything new on or off line that is available? Any crowdsourcing ideas? "I hate to think I am at a dead end rather than a brick wall!"
Alisa Klaus
Santa Cruz, CA, USA

New Gesher Galicia Webinar From Jennifer Mendelsohn: Working Through Issues With Ashkenazi Jewish DNA #announcements #galicia #dna #education

Steven Turner

Dear Friends,

We at Gesher Galicia are thrilled to present for our members an exciting presentation by Ms. Jennifer Mendelsohn, one of the true all-stars on the genealogy circuit today,

Jennifer is just an example of some of the talent we have within our membership. She is a proud Galitzianer with two grandparents from the province with connections to the city of Krakow and the towns of Bolechow and Sniatyn. Jennifer is a seasoned journalist and ghostwriter whose work has appeared in numerous local and national publications including The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time, People, Slate, and USA Today.

DNA has the potential to be an essential and exciting genealogical tool. But many Eastern European Jewish testers find their DNA results completely Overwhelming and unnavigable. Based on the popular 2017 Medium piece that has garnered more than 100,000 views, this talk will help those with Ashkenazi heritage learn to make sense of their DNA results. We'll cover why our match lists are so large, (hello, endogamy!) why all our matches seem to match each other (endogamy, again!), and how to spot the meaningful matches and separate them from the faux ones. Using real-life examples of DNA success, you'll learn techniques that will help you learn to work effectively with DNA to expand your tree.

Please make sure you are logged into Gesher Galicia before clicking the link and understand that this presentation is pre-recorded for you to watch at your convenience.

You must be a member of Gesher Galicia to be able to access the webinars and other resources in the Members Portal. Please click on the link below to join or renew your membership to be able to view this presentation.

For more information on how to work with Ashkenazi Jewish DNA please see the tutorials in the December 2020 edition of The Galitzianer.

If you are unable to access the Members Portal, send your inquiries to: membership@...

Please email Gesher Galicia at info@... with any questions or comments.

We hope that you are enjoying this series that is just another benefit of your Gesher Galicia membership. Please stay tuned because we have a very exciting lineup of presenters to follow.

Dr. Steven S. Turner
President, Gesher Galicia 

Re: Divorce records #usa

A. E. Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara G. <bwgarrard@...>
Does anyone know whether you can get any information about divorce records from NY City without going to NYC? My grandparents divorced over 100 years ago.  If so is there a phone number since I can't find anything online.

Divorces were by borough not NYC as a whole so you need to know where it took place. A lot of divorces were done outside New York because they were easier to get in some places versus New York.

If it was in New York City, it is borough dependent if the file still exists. You would have to hire a researcher to go to the record room I believe. In Manhattan the files are stored off site and while it is not impossible to get the files it takes patience and frequent followups. A lot of the Brooklyn records are missing or were destroyed in a warehouse fire a few years ago. In Brooklyn I have been able to go to the courthouse and look at the microfiche of the index to find the case but they are filed by date and then name so it takes some hunting. Then they would let you see the minutes which in effect is an index of the case also on the microfiche. Then you have to go to the sub basement record room to request the file.

Problem is that most of the court houses are closed to the public due to the pandemic and it is unclear when they might reopen. Some of the record rooms are permitting researchers by appointment in very limited numbers.

Allan Jordan

DNA Matches - Most CentiMorgans or Largest Segment? #dna #education #poland #ukraine #galicia

Richard Cooper

As an experienced researcher but a newbie to DNA, I'm struggling with interpreting the results.
I did the basic autosomal test with Ancestry and uploaded my data to GEDmatch and MyHeritage for maximum coverage. I've matched the DNA of 13 other second and third cousins whom I knew already, and their matches fit the standard pattern.
So far, so good. But I've also found 70 or so people with whom I have no known connection and no shared surname, going back to when surnames were made mandatory for Eastern European Jews (c.1800), who share with me either more than 100cM of DNA or one segment longer than 35cM. That's more than many of my third cousins!
I know that because we Ashkenazi Jews are an endogamous population I may share a total amount of DNA with someone with whom I have no single recent common ancestor, but many repeated strands which might not converge later than perhaps 20 or more generations ago. But my question is this: does one shared segment of (say) 35 to 50 cM mean that we are almost certainly fifth cousins or closer? Or is it again just an indicator of endogamy?
Ric Cooper
Midhurst, UK
MILLET, ENGELBERG, BLUMENKEHL, SUSSWEIN, WACKS & PITERZIL from Tarnow, Dabrowa Tarnowska and Lezajsk
YAROSHEVSKY, SHAPOCHNIKOW & GRANITUR from Odessa and Zlatopol/Novomirgorod
LEWINSTEIN from Berdichev

Hebrew translation for headstone #poland #translation

Stephanie Shushan

I would like a translation of the Hebrew inscription on this headstone. 

Wyloga, Meir Eliezer

Stephanie Shushan

Researching: Wyloge, Shushansky, Wolheim, Rosenthaltz

Re: Connection between HOROWITZ and ABRAMOWITZ families-Novarodok/Hartford, Ct. #usa


We have corresponded previously on the Abramowitz side of the family, but I am not sure if I ever mentioned that New Haven also has a Jewish historical society.  There were several synagogues within a short distance of each other in New Haven in the early part of the 20th century and before. 
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Cluj Romania Jewish Community Asks NY Auction House Not to Sell Burial Registry #holocaust #romania

Jan Meisels Allen



The Jewish community of Cluj, Romania and the World Jewish Restitution Organization (  has asked US Brooklyn-NY based  auction house Kestenbaum & Company to halt the sale of a 19th century handwritten burial registry that it believes was stolen during the Holocaust. The memorial register is a record of Jewish burials in the city between 1836 and 1899. Bidding of the registry was scheduled for 18 February along with 16 other documents. The register is known as the Pinkas Klali D’Chevra Kadisha. The register is written in Hebrew and Yiddish. “Given the historically delicate nature of the items that are entrusted to us to handle, we take the matter of title to be one of the utmost importance,” Daniel Kestenbaum, the founding chairman of the auction house, wrote in an email. “Consequently, in respect to recently acquired information, manuscripts were withdrawn from our February Judaica auction.” The seller has agreed to discuss the matter further with the restitution organization, he said. It is valued between $5,000 and $7,000 USD.


Zoltan Tibori Szabo, the director of the Institute for Holocaust and Genocide Studies at the University of Cluj, said he is counting on the consignor’s good will. If made available to researchers, the newly discovered register will provide scholars with the names of the ancestors of those who were deported, he said.


The register was spotted online by a genealogy researcher, Robert Schwartz, president of the Jewish Community of Cluj. Schwartz is a Holocaust survivor from Cluj.  The Jewish community of Cluj currently has about 350  members and they argued in their letter that the registry was “illegally appropriated by unidentified persons”.  The community argues that because it was stolen, it “falls under the provisions of the 1947 Paris Peace Treaty and the 2009 Terezin Declaration”.


Besides its historical and artistic value, Schwartz is convinced the register would help in the task of reconstructing the past of a community that saw most of its archives destroyed or pillaged during the Holocaust.


This would fall under the 1947 Paris Peace Treaty and the 2009 Terezin Declaration, which was signed by 46 states including the US, Romania and Hungary, under whose administration Cluj was during most of WWII, the treaties provide for the restitution to their rightful owners of goods illegally appropriated by states or their citizens.  “According to the aforementioned peace treaty, they should be returned to the ‘community of survivors’, in this case, the Jewish Community of Cluj,” the letter from the community says.


The city of Cluj-Napoca – known as Kloyzenburg in Yiddish, Klausenburg in German, and Kolozsvár in Hungarian, was home to more than 16,000 Jews before 1944, when 18,000 Jews from the city and its surroundings were deported and most of them killed at the Auschwitz death camp.

Today, Cluj is the fourth-largest city in Romania.


Schwartz is an eminent chemist. He also asked the auction house to halt the sale of a similar register of the births and deaths of Jews from nearby Oradea.  In his letter to Kestenbaum and Co. he said, “private institutions like Kestenbaum have “a responsibility to make certain that claims to recover Nazi-confiscated property are resolved expeditiously” and cited international agreements on returning Nazi-looted cultural property and Holocaust-era assets.


To read more see:


Thank you to several Jewish genealogists who forwarded the article to me for sharing.


Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Canadian researcher needed to order 1927 naturalization record for Leib ZAROW (ZAROVSKY) #canada



I need the help of a Canadian researcher to order a naturalization record for a relative of mine: Leib ZAROW (ZAROVSKY) of Winnipeg, naturalized May 26, 1927. He was born in 1888 and died in 1959. 

I live in the U.S., and naturalization records can only be requested by Canadian citizens.


Thank you,

Ben Zitomer


Is there a SIG that covers Zakroczym? Later records not online. #poland

Stanley Diamond

 Although our online records currently end at 1905, JRI-Poland has also fully extracted the
vital records of Zakroczym up to 1920.  This constitutes an additional 1700 record entries.
To learn how to access these records, please write to zakroczym@....

Stanley Diamond, M.S.M.  (Montreal, 514-484-0100)
Executive Director, Jewish Records Indexing - Poland, Inc.

Is there a SIG that covers Zakroczym? #poland
From: relly800@...
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:58:22 EST
I could not find a FB SIG for Zakroczym and wonder if there is a group for descendants of the town.

Relly Coleman

Re: Is there a SIG that covers Zakroczym? #poland

Chuck Weinstein

JRI-Poland ( covers this town.

Chuck Weinstein

9781 - 9800 of 665672