Date   

Can Animals Commit a Murder? #translation #germany #names

Ralph Baer
 

Recently, someone asked what Hebrew name corresponds to Schia. I was going to post that a brother of my great-great-grandfather Moses GRÜNEBAUM had the name Scheier (pronounced very similarly to Schia) on his 1823 death record and the name Jesaias on the 1818 Musterliste (master list, census) for the town of Gambach in the present-day Wetteraukreis of Hessen, Germany. By the time I assembled the facts, essentially the same thing was posted by others, so I did not post it.
 
This, however, got me to think about Scheier GRÜNEBAUM’s death record which I had not done since a book about the former Gambach Jewish community of Gambach was published in 2014. The Mormon filming of the Darmstadt archives copy is available through Family Search at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS84-4SQN-V?i=825&cat=834214. My transcription is:
 
Sterb Protocoll über einen Juden
 
Im Jahr Eintausand Achthundert Dreÿ und Zwanzig den 21. Maj sind vor mir dem Burgermeister der Gemeinde Gambach Landrathsbezirk Hungen, beide Juden Moses Sewald und David Mejer beide von hier erschienen welche mir erklärt haben, daß Jude Kaufmann Grünebaum Sohn Namens Scheier Grünebaum welcher zwölf Jahr alt, den 20ten Maj, des Nachmittags um fünf Uhr, durch ein Paar Ochsen, welche derselbe von hier nach Steinbach habe führen wollen, dem vermuthen und überzeugen nach, durch dieselbe ermordert und das zwar zwischen Gambach und Holzheim in der hiesigen Grenze geschehen ist, und haben der Erklärenten dem gegenwärtigen Act nach dem solcher ihnen vorgelesen worden mit mir unterschrieben sowie auch der Vater des unglükten. 
 
Language changes in 200 years. That coupled with my admittedly incomplete knowledge of German causes me to wonder exactly what happened to Scheier. That is my question. It is clear that the 12-year-old Scheier was leading a pair of oxen on May 20, 1823 from Gambach to nearby Steinbach, and at the Gambach-Holzheim border, he met his demise. (For what it is worth, he would have been a couple of years older based upon his recorded age in 1818.) The verb form “ermordert” is used which I assume would now be ermordet. Does the record say that he was murdered by the oxen? One would not say in English that oxen murdered someone; one would say killed. Or does the preposition “durch” imply that an unknown person killed Scheier and used the oxen as their weapon?
--
Ralph N. Baer        RalphNBaer@...       Washington, DC


Re: Looking for a Jewish Genealogy DNA Book #dna

miri tur
 

https://www.amazon.com/Endogamy-One-Family-People/dp/1680340387
 
Israel Pickholtz in a Israeli expert on the Jewish DNA subject.
Miri Tur

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Can anyone help me figure out these names? #names #records #ukraine

Scott Rothstein
 

I recently got a copy of my great-grandparents' marriage certificate. It was issued in Manhattan in 1899, and as a bit of a treasure has their parents' names--something I hadn't been quite sure of before.

My problem is that I can't make them out; the document is clear but was written in script that could be interpreted several ways. I'm fairly sure of my great-grandmother's (Regina) parents' names though I'm a little surprised to see "Salomon" rather than "Solomon" and I'm only 90% sure her mother's surname is "Spandau," but for my great-great grandfather... I don't know. The birthplace for my great-grandfather is Sadagora (Bukowina), but they were of German derivation--or so we've always presumed. 

MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately


Can I localize anyway an ancestor who died on open sea? or the case of the missing shiplog #latinamerica #records

EDUARDO BALBACHAN
 

Can any of you please give me a pathway to elude the brickwall I've
found in my genealogic search?
All my family arrived to Argentina (entre Ríos, Basavilbaso) in 1894 in
a trip organized by the Jewish Colonization Association (JCA). They
departed from Odessa, but they were originally from Belz (Bessarabia).
Time ago, reading an argentine marriage certificate, I've learned that
my greatgrandfather, who was in that trip, died on open sea, but I don't
know anything else.
I have read (I don't know if it is true) that on that time, if anyone of
the passengers died on board, he or she were buried at the journey's
nearest port, or, if the ship was far away from any port, they simply
were thrown into the sea.

I assumed that such an important event ought to be noted down in the
steamer's shiplog, so I thought that If I could get on the shiplog, I
could solve my greatgrandfather's mistery

The following are the data I have up to now:

Surname and name: BALBACHAN MOSHE (MOISHE BEN HAIM)

Birthdate: Circa 1839

Hometown: Belz (Bessarabia)

He departed form Odessa with his own family (twelve persons) on board of
the ship "Bosforo" (october 5th, 1894, List XXIII JCA, Soroki II group).
They arrived to Genoa, where they had to change to the vessel "Manilla"
(both ships, Bosforo and Manilla owned to "Navigazione Generale
Italiana" company). The Manilla's route could probably be
Genoa-Nice-Marseilles-Barcelona-Santa Cruz de la Palma (Canarias)-Rio de
Janeiro-Sao Paulo-Montevideo-Buenos Aires where Balbachan family arrived
on november 11th,1894, but without Moshe.

Until here all right, but... (always there exists a "but"):

1) The "Navigazione Generale Italiana" company doesn't exist anymore and
I don't know where to get the Manilla's shiplog between october-november
1894

2) Another source of information could be the ship's manifiests in each
of the route's ports, but, once again, how can I get these pieces of
information?

3) This is a long shot, but who knows? In this trip to Buenos Aires
there were 224 passengers on board of the Manilla. A death on board is a
quite important event just to forget easily, so perhaps in any of these
families could have been any comment transmitted from father to son and
so on...but how can I get in contact with thousands of descendants from
those original 224 passengers?

All help you can give to me, will be welcome!

Thank you very much

Eduardo Luis BALBACHAN

Buenos Aires, Argentina

Researching BALBACHAN


Re: Naturalization Index / Search #usa #records

davidkmahler@...
 

And a related question: the last name is Pnieczek, born in Krakow (I think), though I've seen very few if any hits on that name in most databases.

What alternate spellings might make sense in Polish or other local languages? 

David Mahler
California


Naturalization Index / Search #usa #records

davidkmahler@...
 

Hi All,

I found the following index record for naturalization: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XKGP-CWY

Could someone explain how I would use this information to find the actual Declaration/Petition?

Thank you (and Happy Passover!),

David Mahler
California


Re: Late birth registrations #poland #records

Mike Coleman
 

Hello Michael,

Registration of births became compulsory in England and Wales only in 1875.

 

Mike Coleman   London (formerly Borehamwood) U.K.


(Ukraine) Ukraine Website 1917-1924 Database #announcements #records #ukraine

Jan Meisels Allen
 

 

 

The website, Ukraine in 1917-1924, says more than 200,000 people were combatants in the Ukrainian armies (Armed forces of the Central Council, the Army of the Ukrainian People's Republic, the Army of the Ukrainian State). The website has documented more than 16,000 people who were involved in the fight for Ukraine's independence. According to various estimates, documents containing approximately 30-40 thousand names of Ukrainian soldiers are available in Ukrainian and foreign archives. theoretically, It is possible, therefore, to establish the names of 15-20% of the personnel of Ukrainian troops for the period 1917-1924.

 

The database has been compiled from various sources since 2008. The unit of account of the database is not a document, but a person. Therefore, one name may contain information collected from one or more sources (sometimes up to 10).

 

The database provides the following information on participants: name, unit of service, rank, birthdate, birth place, death date, cause of death, place of death and place of burial. Information varies for each person, naturally.

 

While the website is in English, and can be searched in English, the information  is in Ukrainian when you click on the brown name so you may need to use Google translate  https://translate.google.com/  or Deep L translator https://www.deepl.com/en/translator

 

To view the website, go to: http://www.db.geroika.org.ua/en/home.html

 

Thank you to Vera Miller and her blog, Find Lost Russian and Ukrainian Families for sharing this information.

 

Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee

 

 


Re: Need help researching family with son declared dead for marrying a gentile #austria-czech #records

Barbara Zimmer
 

Cechova is simply the female form of the surname.  

This is not clear -- was Nohel his given name or his surname?   

Barbara Zimmer
Virginia 

 

 


Re: Late birth registrations #poland #records

Adelle Gloger
 

My paternal grandmother, Sarah Golde Lorber, was born in Tarnopol in 1873. Her birth was not officially registered until 1891 before she married so that she could use her father's last name and that her birth would then be legitimate.
Also, her parents, Joseph Lorber & Rivke Kasten, registered their marriage with the civil authorities at the same time.
 
Adelle Weintraub Gloger
Cleveland, Ohio
agloger@...


Need help researching family with son declared dead for marrying a gentile #austria-czech #records

Richard Nohel
 

Hello, I am new to this group format and could not figure out how to initiate my own message to start with. I recently learned that my great-great grandparents who had 11 children, actually had a twelfth who was "declared dead" by the family for marrying a gentile. He would have been born between 1845-1860 in Bohemia (I believe the family lived in Mcely). The only thing I know is that he changed his name from Nohel to Cech. His wife may have been Cechova. I am wondering how I could possibly research this to determine if there are any living descendants as I would imagine there should be some record of a legal name change either with a government entity or a Jewish temple archive. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Richard Nohel


Re: Looking for a Jewish Genealogy DNA Book #dna

peggyfreedman@...
 

I think that you will have better luck with blogs than with a book because the field is changing so rapidly.  I know that Lara Diamond started a project to come up with statistics about shared cMs and relationships a couple of years ago.  Her blog is at:
Lara's Jewnealogy (larasgenealogy.blogspot.com)

I know that there are several others, hope that other people will add them here.

Peggy Mosinger Freedman
Atlanta, GA USA


translation needed from Hebrew on a tombstone #translation

Deborah Friedman
 

I am requesting translation from the Hebrew, of this tombstone.  It is not a high resolution photo...so may be an issue. 

Thank you very much

Deborah Friedman

Walnut Creek, CA

dsfaec@...

 

Searching for: FRIEDMAN (KOPAIGOROD UKRAINE), SHULMAN/SCHULMAN (KOPAIGOROD UKRAINE), SPECTOR, GOLOGORSKY, KANSTERIN/KANSTEROOM, LIPSON (JERUSALEM), ZASLER (JERUSALEM, ZASLOW), LEVY, GRATZ/GRATCH, EISENSTEIN (DROHITCHIN), BENIOFF (KIEV AREA), SILBERMANN/SILVERMAN (ZEIL GERMANY), DINKELSPIEL(BADEN, GERMANY), MAIER, WIEDERQUIST, HOROWITZ (KIEV AREA), HESS (NEW ORLEANS), SANGER (NEW ORLEANS AND ALSACE), MAROZ (Ignatovka, Ukraine).


Re: Nurflus-Grinberg family: FRANCE #france #general

charles.rapoport@...
 

Alle the  french Naturalisation  files could be found on the ARCHIVES NATIONALES (France). You can log in by Internet. With the Covid there are now somme problems...
Best regards,
Jeannette Rapoport
France


Re: Location of vital records for Ulics #hungary

Peter Absolon
 

Ulics records were kept in Szinna (Snina) books, but these have been lost/destroyed during ww2.
Only civil records starting October 1895 exist for the town.

Peter Absolon


KRANTZOV, KRANZOW #ukraine

kranser@...
 

My grandfather, Jankel Krantzov immigrated from the Ukraine to the US in 1906. He was met at Ellis Island by a brother or brother-in-law, Moishe Kranzow who preceded him.  Seeking information on Moishe or others in the family.

Leonard Kranser
Dana Point, CA


Re: My Grandmother JABLONSKI from Pruzani #belarus #russia

DALE ZEIDMAN
 

Hi Marilyn,
I read your post with interest. I think there's a possibility that we might be related through my grandmother, Gussie Jablow, who immigrated to the U.S. around 1897 from Minsk, Belarus. The name Jablow has been used by my great grandfather in the U.S. since the 1870s. I have been told by experts that the name couldn't have been Jablow in Belarus and was more likely something like Jablonski or another similar name, but I've been unable to track her and her family using various combinations of other Jablow-like spellings. I also believe that the family was originally from Poland or Lithuania, but I haven't any proof of that -- just a gut feeling.
My DNA is on Ancestry and My Heritage, but I didn't find a match for you and me. Do you have DNA on either of those sites? I'd like to look further to see if any names on your tree/s match names on my Ancestry or My Heritage tree. Is that possible?
Be well and safe.
Dale Zeidman
New York, New York

Bukantz - Lithuania
Jablow/Jablonski - Belarus
Magen/Magadenko - Ukraine
Zeidman/Zaitchik - Ukraine


Re: Location of vital records for Ulics #hungary

Moishe Miller
 

Hello,
You do not offer more detail about what towns your "Ulics" may be near. It sounds like you know where it is.
Perhaps this is the location and some detail:
https://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/settlements/SL_Ulic.htm
If so, records may be in Presov.
--

Moishe Miller
Brooklyn, NY
moishe.miller@...
JGFF #3391


Re: Unknown language #general #translation

kosfiszer8@...
 


-- It could be translated of the last day of Sloshim (30 days of mourning and of not shaving?), or leaving a town by the name Shloshim?

Angel Kosfiszer

Richardson, Texas


Re: My Grandmother JABLONSKI from Pruzani #belarus #russia

Sherri Bobish
 

Marilyn,

I suggest searching the Ellis Island manifests at:
https://stevemorse.org/ellis2/ellisgold.html

The following type of search produced interesting results.
Surname starts with J  (be sure to tick off the circle that says "starts with or is"
Town name sounds like Pruzani (be sure to tick off the circle that says "sounds like"

These are just a few of the results that seem pertinent to your search.  There are many others.

Jablonskaja (Beila, Chaim, Joseph) from Prushany
Jablonski (Chanetke, Chawe) from Prusany
Jablonski (David, Dime B) from Pruzan

As you can see, both the surname and the town can appear with variant spellings.

Hope this helps,

Sherri Bobish

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