Date   

Orange County California JGS Meeting on Sunday With Ellen Kowitt talking about Research in Jewish Ukraine #announcements

Michelle Sandler
 

Sunday at 10:00 am PDT the Orange County California Jewish Genealogy
Society is having their next meeting on Zoom. The speaker is Ellen
Kowitt talking about doing Jewish Genealogical Research in the
Ukraine. Registration is required at www.ocjgs.org. Registration is
free to OCJGS members and $5 for non members. All fees can be paid
for at our website www.ocjgs.org.

Michelle Sandler MLS
President OCJGS
Westminster, California


Re: Immigration via Hoboken? #usa

Joel Weintraub
 

I sent a short message to Laurie about the “port” of Hoboken.  Hoboken had docks for the Hamburg-America Line, and perhaps berthed other ships as well.  The port however should be the Port of New York... that is, Ellis Island.  The important part of the message is that the arrival was shown on the naturalization papers to be 1898.  She should check for the ship arrivals page at stevemorse.org to see if it actually did arrive on Sept. 12th, 1898.  Any arrival information before 1905, when immigration authorities had to certify ship arrival information on the Certificate of Arrival during the naturalization process  should be considered suspect.  I suggested to Laurie that she throw away her assumptions about the arrival information, and concentrate on Ellis Island arrivals.  However, if the person came on first or second class, those manifests from 1897 to 1902 are missing from Ellis Island.
Joel Weintraub
Dana Point, CA



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--
Joel Weintraub
Dana Point, CA


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Lee Jaffe
 

I  find Geni's accessibility to be two-edged sword, causing potentially more damage than it has benefits.  I've just found someone added 3 half-siblings – no names, no gender, not vital data – to my immediate tree.  It seems that their tree had me and my two brothers as my father's children but didn't have my mother's identity, so Geni registered them as different people.  It's too easy to add the wrong information and much harder to find and correct such mistakes.
--

Lee David Jaffe

Surnames / Towns:  Jaffe / Suchowola, Poland ; Stein (Sztejnsapir) / Bialystok and Rajgrod, Poland ; Joroff (Jaroff, Zarov) / Chernigov, Ukraine ; Schwartz (Schwarzman?, Schwarzstein?) / ? ;  Koshkin / Snovsk, Ukraine ; Rappoport / ? ; Braun / Wizajny, Suwalki, Poland,  Ludwinowski / Wizajny, Suwalki, Poland

 


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Adam Turner
 


It also retains history of changes, which is invaluable for sorting out errors, and ensuring a high level of accuracy.
This is all great as an aspirational goal for Geni curators, but as applied to 98% of actually existing Geni trees, it's risible. The vast majority of Geni users are unaware of/uninterested in how to do cleanup on others' Geni trees, and errors that are theoretically correctable end up persisting on the site forever, getting copied over and over into other people's trees on other sites, etc. While there are certainly a few large, well-manicured Geni trees out there, there is also a gigantic "long tail" of Geni trees (which includes most of the ones I routinely come across via search engines) that receive none of this curatorial attention, and it shows. Saying the equivalent of "stop telling people not to use Geni then, if lots more people use it it will get much more accurate!" comes off as...very wishful thinking at best.

Since kvetching about Geni has been done to death in this forum, I'll instead diss FindAGrave, which has even higher practical barriers to corrections than Geni. As far as I can tell, only the person who has claimed a FindAGrave memorial page can edit it - and there are some users who have claimed hundreds of thousands of them for the purpose of uploading all the photos of the stones they photograph. The part that drives me up the wall is that frequently, these FindAGrave power users contribute their own error-filled "research" to the memorial pages; by "research," I mean they appear to have spent about 5 seconds pasting the results of a search on Ancestry or FamilySearch into the memorial, without doing any double-checking whatsoever to be sure they've correctly matched these records with the grave they photographed. Then when you point out their obvious errors to them, half the time they snippily demand that you provide rigorous citations for your correction before they will apply it!

My point here is that it's very easy for sites reliant on user-generated content to slip into an eye-rolling equilibrium: one where the power users do virtually zero due diligence of their own to propagate very long-lasting errors, and then set the norms that everyone else, not they, 1) are the ones who should be responsible for performing the labor of cleaning up the mess they made; 2) also need to be held to a far higher data quality standard than they themselves used to originally make that mess.

Adam Turner


Re: Baden Germany 1687-1730 R. Seligmann of Hüffenhardt Mohel Book Transcription #germany

Alex Calzareth
 

As a correction to my earlier post, the transcription was prepared  in 1932/33 by Samuel Jeselsohn, not his son Sigmund. Additionally, Samuel Jeselsohn had a  copy of the Neckarbischofsheim Jewish vital records for 1811 - 1870 prepared which can be viewed at https://www.nli.org.il/en/manuscripts/NNL_ALEPH997007685352605171/NLI#$FL135956650 . Although other copies of these records exist, this copy is typewritten and therefore easier to use.

Alex Calzareth


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Laurie Sosna
 

The issue I have with genealogical cross-pollination is when trees contain some information that i know to be correct, but much of it is wrong and that gets repeated across hundreds of trees. This isn't just confined to one site.

I have worked hard for 30 years to be diligent, accurate and documented. I started a private tree on Ancestry which only contains names of people I can document. There are no names with “no sources” or only with hints from other trees. I know who every person is, how they connect to me. I’ve always taken care to make sure the documents I attach are the correct person. If I’m not sure, I’ll add it to my notes to research more. Ancestry has helped me immeasurably to locate documents that I would not have been able to find on my own.

I decided to make my tree public, in the hope that people might contact me with new information. Then I started getting hints to trees with completely incorrect documents: naturalization records from a state where the person never lived; grave records in a state the person never lived; incorrect birthplace; children’s names with no sources, parent’s names I know to be wrong.  Those trees also contained link to my tree.

Those incorrect trees then became the source for other trees that propagate the incorrect information. Just because someone has thousands of names in their tree does not make them more reliable than someone who has several hundred. People don’t link at the tree with the most sources, or even look to see what those sources are.  When you have a very common last name, it is even easier to get things wrong.

I made my tree private again. Unfortunately, the barn door of misinformation has been blown off the hinges and it can’t be fixed. I can’t reasonably be expected to contact each tree owner and fix the cascade of incorrect information.

It hurts me very deeply to see my work mixed in with those who just seem to be collecting names. Every name in my tree is precious, every document I find helps them come alive. Each document chronicles that they lived in that place at that time, what they did, how they lived. My family is full of tailors, plumbers, shoemakers, shopkeepers. They sold insurance, owned gas stations and delis. They weren’t famous, though some of their descendants are. Documenting their lives connects me to an experience that I cannot live myself but I can reconstruct to honor them.

Laurie Sosna
San Francisco, CA
SOSNA: Ivonivka (near Yampil), Mogilev
GOIKHMAN: Rascov, Mogilev
LEVIN: Vilna, Dnipro
GOLDBLOOM: Ostroweic, Radom, Poland
KOBB: Ukmerge
FRIEDSON: Ukmerge


LAPL is looking for an expert to present a beginning Jewish genealogy session (online) #education

Julie Huffman
 

Hi, there,

I'm the genealogy librarian at the Los Angeles Public Library, and I've been asked time and again to facilitate a presentation on beginning Jewish genealogy (the challenges, the resources, etc.).  So, I'm reaching out to the JewishGen community to see if anyone might be interested!
 
I have a monthly genealogy program called Genealogy Garage that has been very well attended ever since I switched to the online format (LAPL broadcasts it live on its Facebook and YouTube channels).  Here is a link to our Armenian Genealogy program that took place last Saturday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qgRhtKTrO0
 
It normally occurs on the third Saturday of the month, but I'm happy to reschedule for Friday (or any other day) due to the Sabbath.  Ideally, I'm looking for someone who might be able to do it in July or August.  Our sessions are usually 1 - 1.5 hours long, with questions & answers from the audience.  I'd love to be able to keep the recorded version of the presentation live on our website for future referrals.
 
Oh, and, I don't have any money to pay our presenters--but the exposure is dynamite!  ☺
 
Thanks for any consideration, and feel free to respond to me directly at jhuffman@....
 
Cheers,
 
Julie Huffman, Genealogy Librarian
Los Angeles Public Library
630 W. Fifth St., Los Angeles, CA 90071
213-228-7413
jhuffman@...


Needing help in deciphering the name of a place #poland #lodz

relly800@...
 

Need help deciphering name of a place my mother z"l mentioned as an area that my FELD family were from. 
It sounds like Brest Kuyav and might be in the Wloclawek/Dobrzyn nad Wisla area.
Any ideas as to which place this might be? 
Help would be appreciated,
Relly Coleman
FELD Dobrzyn nad Wisla, Zakroczym
WARSZAWSKI


Translation Request Hungarian Cursive Viewmate #translation

Barbara Stack
 

Friends,

I have posted a 3-page document, likely a letter, in cursive Hungarian on Viewmate. This document comes from a soon-to-be 99-year-old cousin’s family and I have no idea what it might hold. Any help will be much appreciated and would be a great birthday gift!

 

First page: notations in top left and top right might carry many clues

 

Second page: continuation. Seems to be a letter

 

Third page: has what may be an address, signature, and postal seal.

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM93208

 

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM93209

 

 

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM93210

 

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Barbara Toby Stack

USA


Re: Immigration via Hoboken? #usa

Diane Jacobs
 

Try. Go to stevemorse.org
And in the first section of passenger manifests 
click on The Ships List.
Plunk in the name of the ship and the month and year it arrived . If your sailing comes up,
Then you can go through each manifest page to find the entry you want.

Hope this helps . 
Diane Jacobs


On Apr 22, 2021, at 1:59 PM, laurie.budgar@... wrote:

I just received my great-granduncle's naturalization records. They indicate he immigrated through the port of Hoboken on 12 Sep 1898 on the ship Frederick der Grosse. I've never heard of immigrating through this port, but apparently it did happen in this time frame. Still, I'm stumped as to where to find his passenger manifest. I've looked on Ancestry and Family Search as well as the NARA website, but have not found any records for this port. Does anyone know where I might access them? Thanks in advance!

Laurie Budgar
Longmont, CO, USA

--
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Max Heffler
 

Using geni allows me to keep a single evergreen tree up-to-date and along with MyHeritage and Ancestry and DNA testing, I have been able to find relatives I never would have otherwise. I would never have thought I could connect to a 6th great-grandfather. Collaboration is the only way. It is easy to keep my geni tree up-to-date and correct it as mistakes are found. It is not easy to keep my MyHeritage and Ancestry trees up to date. I use them mostly for matching to improve my geni tree, which is getting more correct as time goes by. The public nature allows people to alert me to issues I was not aware of - the kinds of issues that would not have been found in my siloed trees on MyHeritage and Ancestry.

Max Heffler
Houston, TX


From: main@... <main@...> on behalf of jbonline1111 via groups.jewishgen.org <jbonline1111=gmail.com@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 12:14 PM
To: main@... <main@...>
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general
 
I don't have a public tree at any of the mentioned sites, though I have considered it.  The comments here have convinced me to keep my tree private other than on JewishGen.  Luckily for me, my cousin's husband works on our shared tree and even parts of the tree not shared from time to time and shares info with me.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

--

Max Heffler
Houston, TX
max@...
HEFFLER(Ukraine)/TIRAS(Poland)/WASSEMAN(Lithuania)/MOORE(Poland)/ZLOT(Lithuania)
GORENSTEIN(Ukraine)/FLEISCHMAN(Latvia)/GOLDEN(Lithuania)


Re: Immigration via Hoboken? #usa

Susan&David
 

See if the records are here:
U.S., Atlantic Ports Arriving and Departing Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1873 and 1893 - 1959
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/8758/

David Rosen
Boston, AM


On 4/22/2021 12:54 PM, laurie.budgar@... wrote:
I just received my great-granduncle's naturalization records. They indicate he immigrated through the port of Hoboken on 12 Sep 1898 on the ship Frederick der Grosse. I've never heard of immigrating through this port, but apparently it did happen in this time frame. Still, I'm stumped as to where to find his passenger manifest. I've looked on Ancestry and Family Search as well as the NARA website, but have not found any records for this port. Does anyone know where I might access them? Thanks in advance!

Laurie Budgar
Longmont, CO, USA


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Peter Straus
 

There’s clearly nothing that can effectively be done about this problem, and it’s not likely to get better.  The one response I know is to train users to be very cautious about accepting any information as true that does not include appropriate source documentation.  Let me add that references to other trees does not in and of itself constitute documentation given the amount of misinformation propagated from one to multiple trees; I’m sure we all have stories about that phenomenon.

--peter straus  

  San Francisco


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

jbonline1111@...
 

I don't have a public tree at any of the mentioned sites, though I have considered it.  The comments here have convinced me to keep my tree private other than on JewishGen.  Luckily for me, my cousin's husband works on our shared tree and even parts of the tree not shared from time to time and shares info with me.
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


Immigration via Hoboken? #usa

Laurie Budgar
 

I just received my great-granduncle's naturalization records. They indicate he immigrated through the port of Hoboken on 12 Sep 1898 on the ship Frederick der Grosse. I've never heard of immigrating through this port, but apparently it did happen in this time frame. Still, I'm stumped as to where to find his passenger manifest. I've looked on Ancestry and Family Search as well as the NARA website, but have not found any records for this port. Does anyone know where I might access them? Thanks in advance!

Laurie Budgar
Longmont, CO, USA


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Martyn Woolf
 

Alan Ehrlich is absolutely right about GENI. It is wrong to describe it as a genealogical site because its information is so often wrong. It is a very good site to discover “Mishpochah”.  If I want to know my second cousin’s ex-wife’s grand-ma, I would use GENI. For anything serious, I would not.

 

Martyn Woolf

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

E. Randol Schoenberg
 

With regard to fixing mistakes on Geni, if the profile managers do not respond, go to the Discussions page at https://www.geni.com/discussions and the first one listed should be "ATTENTION Curators, please assist.” Try asking for help there. You can also write directly to me or one of the other volunteer Jewish genealogy curators. See https://www.geni.com/projects/Jewish-Genealogy-Curators/13122

The goal of Geni is to have one, single tree for everyone, as accurate as possible. So everyone wants to get those mistakes fixed. If you cannot do it yourself, just ask for help.

Randy Schoenberg
Los Angeles, CA


Re: Emigration from Russian Empire to Canada #courland #lithuania #belarus #ukraine #russia

itencorinne@...
 

Hi

Maybe you know this sources already, but maybe they are interesting for others too.

Passengers Manifests / Border Crossings are online on Library and Archives Canada and/or familysearch.
Canadian Censuslists are online on Library and Archives Canada until 1921 and 1926 (Prairie Provinces).
Birth/Marriage/Death Records for Ontario are online on familysearch.

Regards
Corinne Iten
Switzerland


Re: Wrong people on family trees on genealogy sites #general

Deb Katz
 

I share the frustrations expressed but here is my perspective.  My tree at GENI allows me to get notices about new possible connections and comments upon existing ones...I don't "use" it as my main reference tree and thus I am not horrified if someone alters it. (In a few instances, I just altered it back!)  The tree I rely on personally for myself is Ancestry (where I periodically download it to my hard-drive as a back-up) and that one can't be messed with by anyone else.  As for folks who erroneously copy from it and attach sections to their trees, I write them a short note at ancestry (click on their name when you come across their tree) explaining why the connection is impossible.  If they ignore me...it's really their loss---I don't worry about serious genealogists (people with significant trees) glossing over my tree because it differs with another. In the end, I get more benefit from trees on Geni and Ancestry etc. than the "privacy/security" of not having them is worth.

Finally, when viewing the trees of others and deciding about "absorbing" later generations they have that I don't, in addition to records etc.---including looking people up in the Jewish Encyclopedia or in Jewishgen databases etc.--- I use common sense.  If the names and flow seem logical but dates are off, I will adjust dates (ca)...if dates are ok but names/flow seem off, I just don't add them to my tree or I include (SPECULATIVE) as part of the surname....this is particularly true when a somewhat famous person (rabbi for instance) has a zillion children...obviously folks are just adding an ancestor as a child so they can be descended from that rabbi! Oy veh.  Usually an internet search on the rabbi's name and dates gives enough clues as to which children and locations are believable and which are not.  And what I'm usually interested in just the one or two children that clearly connect to my lines so there's no need to add the siblings until and unless they become relevant.
--
Deb
aka Debra Katz
Pacific Beach CA USA
dnadeb@...


Re: The woman's name of ZETA #names

Victor Weisskopf
 

I grew up in University City, MO, USA, a suburb of St Louis with a large Jewish population. One of my classmates in the l950s was a girl named Zeta Zlepper. Yes.
In those days, pupils were arranged alphabetically in the classrooms, so the W's and Z's would be close by. She's a lovely person, married now many years, with a last name closer to the front of the alphabet.  
--
Vic Weisskopf
Deerfield, IL USA
Weisskopf, Kober, Marx, Lazarus
lionel681@...

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