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Re: Was it proper for a nephew to marry his aunt? #general

Ellen Slotoroff Zyroff
 

Nephew and aunt marriage is a clear Torah prohibition.

Leviticus 18: 11-13
עֶרְוַת אֲחוֹת־אָבִיךָ לֹא תְגַלֵּה שְׁאֵר אָבִיךָ הִוא׃ (ס)
Do not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s flesh.
עֶרְוַת אֲחוֹת־אִמְּךָ לֹא תְגַלֵּה כִּי־שְׁאֵר אִמְּךָ הִוא׃ (ס)
Do not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister; for she is your mother’s flesh.

Here's a summary with footnote links about forbidden sexual relationships in Judaism.

https://torah.org/learning/halacha-overview-chapter27/

This additional article, which talks about prohibited vs allowed relationships, includes mention of the irony of Karaite Jews, who say they reject oral law, but have made their own oral law.
https://www.thetorah.com/article/which-relatives-are-you-prohibited-from-marrying


Ellen Zyroff

On Monday, May 17, 2021, 07:23:16 PM PDT, Jeffrey Herrmann <jeffrey.herrmann@...> wrote:
 
 
My fourth great grandfather, Michel Herschel, (b. abt 1770) married his father’s sister, Rane Herschel, (b. abt 1755) in Hamburg. She was only four years younger than Michel’s father, Meyer Wolff Herschel. Michel and Rane had several children, at least two of whom were healthy enough to live to reasonably old age. Their youngest may have been born as early as 1786, although this date is uncertain.

Was a marriage between a nephew and an aunt permissible? Was it common?

Jeffrey Herrmann
New Rochelle, NY
Researching HERSCHELs of Hamburg, WOLFFs of Halle an der Saale.

--
ZOLOTOROV (Chernigov, Ukraine; Kiev, Ukraine); SLOTOROFF (Kiev, Ukraine); CHARKOVSKY or SHARKOVSKY(Ukraine); LEVINE (Ukraine and Minsk, Belarus);
GLUSKIN (Ukraine); LIMON (Berestechko, Volynia, Ukraine); TESLER (Horochiv, Volynia, Ukraine); ZYRO (Zabolativ, Ukraine) ; TAU (Zalolativ, Ukraine)
PISTERMAN (Ukraine); ROTH / ROT (Ataki, Bessarabia, Moldova); BLAUSTEIN (Chernigov, Ukraine or Minsk, Belarus)


Re: Hebrew translation on headstone #translation

fredelfruhman
 

You did not ask for a translation of the stone on the right.  However, since someone did translate it, I want to add the fact that Hillel's name is preceded by an abbreviation for the phrase "our teacher, the rabbi".  This indicates that he had rabbinic ordination, not necessarily that he was the rabbi of a congregation.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA


Mendl Vaysman from Zinkov Memorial Book #ukraine

Meryl Goldberg
 

I just received my copy of the Zinkov Memorial Book.  It in I found reference to a Mendl Vaysman who immigrated to Israel in 1922 and died there in 1956.  I'm trying to find any living relatives he might have.  My GGrandfather was Mendel Weisman who was originally from Zinkov but lived and worked in Proskurov.  He married my GGrandmother Mirka Ehrlichman (his 3rd wife) who was an orphan from Zinkov.  They emigrated with their 7 children to the US in 1912.  Mendel's parents were Moshe Vaisman and Sara Litsinger.  Thanks for any information you can give me.

Meryl Goldberg
Cave Creek, AZ


Re: Was it proper for a nephew to marry his aunt? #general

karen.silver@juno.com
 

Another interesting aspect of these marriages of an uncle to a niece is that they are illegal in most states.  My grandfather married my grandmother, his half niece, in 1919 in Providence, Rhode Island despite residing in the Bronx because there was and still is an exception in Rhode Island law for "any marriage which shall be solemized among the Jewish people within the degrees of affinity or cosanguinity allowed by their religion."
 
Karen Silver
New Jersey


Re: Painted Woods (North Dakota) Jewish Farming Settlement reunion video - #usa #announcements

tedepand@...
 

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 01:28 PM, yricklevy wrote:
I watched this and was fascinated by the family stories you told. Congratulations to all of you!
Ted Epand


Re: Translation of Polish shtetel names to Polish/English #translation #yiddish #poland

Alexander Sharon
 

Following Sally Bruckheimer post:

Many smaller shtetls names have been added to the latest edition (2002) of WOWW2 (Where Once We Walk). Since 2002 publication, hundreds of the additional smaller shtetls name have been added to JGFF site at 

JewishGen Family Finder - Search

Alexander Sharon


Re: USCIS Program With Marian Smith-Handout

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Marian Smith gave the program Researching USCIS Records to the Jewish Genealogical Society of the Conejo Valley and Ventura County  (JGSCV) on February 14 of this year. Her handout is on our website which is open to the public.  Go to: https://jgscv.org/meetings-prior.html and scroll to 2021-02-14  and you will be able to access Marian's handout -either print or download.

Jan Meisels Allen
President, JGSCV




Re: Was it proper for a nephew to marry his aunt? #general

Joel weiner
 

I have a relative who was living in the USA and who went back to Germany in 1925. He wanted to bring out several adult relatives, including his orphaned niece, who was 15. He was 40. They wouldn't allow her to leave.
 
So he married her, and she was then allowed to leave. They remained married for >40 years, and had three children.


German Citizenship: Germany, Holocaust #germany #holocaust

Lande
 

Several indexes identifying all those who were stripped of their German citizenship 1933-1945 have been available for many years, for example in K.G.Saur’s Die Ausbürgerung deurscher Staatsangehöriger.  However, researchers often appear to have had difficulty in accessing this information.  For those still seeking this information, I would be happy to check for any specific names, but please include given as well as family names.
 
Peter Lande
Washington, D.C.


Atlantic Park Hostel for transmigrants, England 1922-1931 #unitedkingdom #general

lee.desty@...
 

Hi - I'm a retired ex BBC TV News Editor in the UK researching the Atlantic Park Hostel for transmigrants which operated at Eastleigh in
England between 1922 and 1931. Some US newspapers called it  "England's Ellis Island ".
Around 900 mostly Russian Jews were stranded there in 1923 due to quota changes under US Immigration Law. Thousands more Jews were stranded in other European ports and were helped by HIAS and other Jewish support groups.
Some sailed the Atlantic but were sent back from Ellis Island  to Southampton because the Russian quota was found to be full.
Some Russians had to wait in England for up to 7 years to get into America. Those that didn't make opted to go to Canada, Argentina , South Africa or 
Palestine instead. Many who did eventually get admitted to America went to live the family or relatives in New York , Philadelphia and Chicago and became naturalised American citizens. There was even an "Atlantic Park Club of New York" in the 1930s  where Jewish emigrants who stayed there held  reunions. If you know of a family descendant who stayed at Atlantic Park Hostel in England , I'd love to hear from you.
Thank you
Lee Desty , Southampton,UK
lee.desty@...


Re: Translation of Polish shtetel names to Polish/English #translation #yiddish #poland

Alexander Sharon
 

1 Aleksandrów Kujawski and Aleksandrow Łódzki in Poland, and Aleksandriya, Wołyń region, Ukraine
2. Droyanov - Trayanov (Polish: Trajanów), Zhitomir area, Wołyń region, Ukraine
3. Pomoza - Pomoryany (Polish: Pomorzany), Zlochev, Tarnopol region, Ukraine
4. Hanovak - Hajnowka, Białystok region, Poland

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, AB


Re: Was it proper for a nephew to marry his aunt? #general

Sally Bruckheimer
 

In Jewish law, an uncle may marry his niece, but an aunt may not marry her nephew. What people actually did is something else, sometimes.

My 2nd ggrandfather married his niece after his first wife died. His 4 sons left for America around the same time.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ


Re: USCIS Documents #records

David Harrison
 

The rules in Britain have been somewhat different and I expect that they differ elsewhere, but in a similar timeframe.  My Grandfather came to these shores in the late 1800s but did not apply for British citizen ship until about 1912.  On the document is shown his name and all the children but not his wife (who was included as being part of him.  I learnt this while searching the records some years ago.  It seems that as a result, she needed to apply for citizenship in her own within a year of his death. I doubt that she or the children knew this.  The fact that he died in May 1943 and she died in April 1944 which saved her (and the family) having this problem.  My other grandparents were both born here and did not have this problem.  I was lucky to be able to ask this question of a member of staff at The National Archive, he had to ask another member of staff.  Also, the Married Womans' Property Act did not cover this situation.

David Harrison,  Birmingham, England


From: main@... <main@...> on behalf of Howard Aronoff <howard6276@...>
Sent: 18 May 2021 14:22
To: main@... <main@...>
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] USCIS Documents #records
 

RE: GRANDMOTHERS NATURALIZATION; this may be useful: https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1998/summer/women-and-naturalization-1.html

From above link:

New laws of the mid-1800s opened an era when a woman's ability to naturalize became dependent upon her marital status. The act of February 10, 1855, was designed to benefit immigrant women. Under that act, "[a]ny woman who is now or may hereafter be married to a citizen of the United States, and who might herself be lawfully naturalized, shall be deemed a citizen."

Later in the above link:

Happily, Congress was at work and on September 22, 1922, passed the Married Women's Act, also known as the Cable Act. This 1922 law finally gave each woman a nationality of her own. No marriage since that date has granted U.S. citizenship to any alien woman nor taken it from any U.S.-born women who married an alien eligible to naturalization.(11) Under the new law women became eligible to naturalize on (almost) the same terms as men. The only difference concerned those women whose husbands had already naturalized. If her husband was a citizen, the wife did not need to file a declaration of intention. She could initiate naturalization proceedings with a petition alone (one-paper naturalization). A woman whose husband remained an alien had to start at the beginning, with a declaration of intention. It is important to note that women who lost citizenship by marriage and regained it under Cable Act naturalization provisions could file in any naturalization court--regardless of her residence.(12)

Both of my Grandmothers were listed on my Grandfather's naturalization papers which were filed in 1915 and 1916. I believe that my Grandmothers never applied directly but that when my Grandfathers petitions were honored, they, as listed spouses, automatically became citizens. 

Howard Aronoff
Boynton Beach FL
howard6276@...


Re: USCIS Documents #records

Myrna Waters
 

I recently heard a presentation on this subject given by Marian Smith to the JGSSN (JGS of Southern Nevada) via Zoom.  She is retired after 30 years working for the USCIS.  Perhaps you can contact the group or go to their website and see if you can contact her directly.  There was a handout along with the presentation that shows which records can be found at the various locations for such records, depending on when the immigration was and when the paperwork to become a US citizen was filed.  Good luck to you.
--
Myrna (Slatnick) Waters
NJ/NY/FL USA

Researching:  SLEPACK (or similar)Belarus/Bialystok area; SLATNICK/SLOTNIK (or similar) Minsk/Puchovichi area of Russia from 1905/1914 to NY & Newark,NJ and Canada;  KURZMANN Jaslo, Poland and Drohobych, Ukraine area (both formerly in what was the Galician area of Austria prior to WWI), KURTZMAN in NY/Bronx and NJ/Newark from 1905/1910, SADOWSKY (or similar) from Belarus area of Russia/Bialystok 19th century to Newark,NJ 1905 or after.


Re: Response to query: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #names

Elynn Boss
 

I have one great grandfather that took the first name of Sam - his Hebrew name was Sheftel.

I have another great grandfather that also took the name of Sam even though his older brother had taken that name also.  He was naturalized under Sam (as was his older brother), but later changed his name to Joshua which was close to his Yiddish name of Gesua.  His Polish name was Osvey. 

As Sally stated - Sam was very popular.
--
Elynn Boss
Frisco, Texas, United States
bossgen_1@...
Searching: Abrahams (New York); Gichtin/Gechtin/Gertin (Buffalo, New York and Canada); Dreishpoon (New York, Russia, France), Danovitch/Daynes (New York, Massachusetts, Poland/Russia) and associated branches.


Re: Dora Cohon nee Azarin #ukraine

Sherri Bobish
 

Beth,

Ekaterinoslav is today Dnipro, Ukraine.
https://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/community.php?usbgn=-1037865

Have you searched for records at:
JewishGen Ukraine Database
https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Ukraine/

Try a soundex search on surnames.  Names get spelled in variant ways in these records.

Good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish


Re: Response to query: What would likely be the Jewish name for Samuel Black? #names

Myrna Waters
 

My family came from a small town about 35 mi. SE of Minsk.  Two of the sons became Sam's in the USA. 
Their names on the ship manifest list were Schmerel and Schlajme.  
--
Myrna (Slatnick) Waters
NJ/NY/FL USA

Researching:  SLEPACK (or similar)Belarus/Bialystok area; SLATNICK/SLOTNIK (or similar) Minsk/Puchovichi area of Russia from 1905/1914 to NY & Newark,NJ and Canada;  KURZMANN Jaslo, Poland and Drohobych, Ukraine area (both formerly in what was the Galician area of Austria prior to WWI), KURTZMAN in NY/Bronx and NJ/Newark from 1905/1910, SADOWSKY (or similar) from Belarus area of Russia/Bialystok 19th century to Newark,NJ 1905 or after.


Re: Help Identifying Town Name on Dec of Intention #galicia

Sherri Bobish
 

Sheri,

I agree with Lee that it reads "a widower."

Did they marry in The U.S., or prior to arriving here?  If they were married before coming to The U.S. than they possibly came from either the same or nearby towns.

Have you found their passenger manifest(s)?

Do you know what town ggf was born?  You can search for town records at:  https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/

Good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish


Re: Was it proper for a nephew to marry his aunt? #general

David Goldman
 

Hi, Jeffrey. Given the context and time involved back in the 18th century, assuming the couple married religiously as well as civilly, it is unlikely that the actual relationship was that of an aunt and a nephew since such a marriage is forbidden under religious law (halacha). In all likelihood either the groom or bride was a step-relative or adopted child, which would mean the marriage would be permissible under halacha.  Thus Michel must have been an adopted or step-son to Meyer, or alternatively, Rane was an adopted or step-sister of Meyer.  This seems more likely given the fact that Rane was significantly older than Michel and would have been considered to be an "old maid." It would be quite common to try to marry off an "old maid" to anyone just so she could be married. Thus it would suggest that Rane must have been a stepsister or adopted/foster sister of Meyer.
David Goldman
NYC


Re: Was it proper for a nephew to marry his aunt? #general

jbonline1111@...
 

Re Vivian Cohen's comment: a friend of mine is married to a man who is 10-15 years younger than she. They have two children from their union, both of whom are adults now. It's uncommon but it occurs now and I don't doubt it occasionally occurred in prior centuries for various reasons.  
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

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