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On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:17 PM, Jx. Gx. wrote:
the guy doesn't want to get up from his comfortable chair and search through dusty old burial folders in storage. Its easier for him to look at his computer database that has minimal information. Is there any legal recourse in getting recalcitrant cemetery officials to do their job and help relatives with the information they needIt's not "their job". Their job is to bury the recently deceased and to care for the older graves. Any assistance they provide to researchers is a courtesy, not an entitlement, and not likely to be forthcoming when the requester has an attitude problem or insults them.
Camarillo, California, USA
Gail H. Marcus
Don't know if I've just been lucky, but I usually find the cemetery staff remarkably helpful. At times, they have gone to their archives and called me back. Or, when they couldn't find something, they suggested alternatives to check (name variants, nearby cemeteries, etc.). More than once, it's helped me identify a relative. Maybe it is the person or the time of day. Or just a lucky chance.
I should, however, note that I've never asked for the congregation. And I've never had anyone offer me the name of a congregation, so I don't know if the real issue is that they don't save this kind of information. And I can say that privacy rules have made them more reluctant to give exact home addresses or names of next of kin, especially for burials in the last 50 years. However, they will verify a name or address if I ask.
But overall, I have been very impressed at how helpful they have been, when, after all, these kinds of questions are a distraction from their main business.
Jewish Community Center of Greater Ann Arbor
Sunday May 30, 2020 at 7:30 p.m. EDT
Speaker: Jennifer Mendelsohn
Jennifer Mendelsohn will share her heartwarming stories of the reunions resulting from her research and how she was able to solve many genealogy mysteries.
Jennifer’s work has appeared in The New York Times, People, The Washington Post, and Slate. She also administers and frequently contributes to facebook’s the Jewish DNA for Genetic Genealogy and Family Research. Her presentations on how to research your family and DNA testing are popular with beginning and expert genealogists alike .A question and answer session will follow the presentation.
All are welcome; attendance is free. Click here on the 30th at 7:30 pm to join the program.
Host of Conversations
Ann Arbor, Michigan
A. E. Jordan
From: Jx. Gx. <mrme1914@...>
I contacted the NYC cemetery where my ggf and ggm are buried and asked if they could check the burial file for my ggf and tell me the name of the congregation that he belong to because I'm certain it would be included in the actual original folder. The guy refused to give me that information.
I have done a lot of work at the NYC area cemeteries and the level of cooperation varies greatly between cemetery and even the individual you are dealing with, and of curse the day. However, I think from my experience people way over estimate the amount of information the cemeteries have in their files. Pre-pandemic I had the opportunity with my work to "go behind the wall" so to speak at some of the offices. Recently for one of the research cases I was working on when I got to the grave it was a double stone for husband and wife but no one had ever had the wife's information completed after death so it only had her name. We needed more information so I decided to write the office, not call, and explained only in basic terms that I needed to document the grave and could they send me the file or something. I expected a letter but instead they also sent a copy of the individual's burial card.
Based on a lot of hours spent working with cemeteries I believe they know the name of the person, age, who made the arrangements or who was considered "responsible" for the grave in the sense of a contact for care.Some record where the person died and that is about it. If there was a contract for the purchase of the plot or grave they have that and a lot of them have notations if or when a stone was set. They mostly record the date of burial versus date of death.
Cemeteries for the most part have the contract for the grave if it was purchased from them and not via the society. They have the burial permit (different than the death certificate) and that's about it. They are going to know the name of the funeral home although that often does not get transferred into their files either.
They do not collect voluminous amounts of details about the deceased person ... they have no need for it. Basically they need to know what grave to open, when it will be used and the permission to do the burial.
I have seen into those "magic" files and they just are not a complete as people hope. Add in the number of years and the information that survives declines further.
The older cemeteries have one other tool that hey do not publicize which is the burial books. They are strictly by date or some also have them by society plot. In those cases they are nothing more than name, date and location. One of the cemeteries I work with at least in the old days occasionally made notes specifically if someone was removed from their grave in the burial book. I was looking for a grave last Sunday at that cemetery and could not find it and the office after checking the computer went and pulled the burial book and it showed the person was removed and they had the date and where the person was transferred.
Specifically in response to the individual question ,,, why would the cemetery have collected the name of the person's congregation if it was different than the burial society? Who would they have kept that all these years later? They simply do not need those type of details to do their business. A better question might be if they know anything or have any details or contacts for the burial society. That might lead to the congregation if there was a connect but a lot of the societies were independent social organizations. Often if you find they are still in business at all, the society is maintained by the oldest member out of a shoe box or a ledger book and not much else.
The location in the process that collects the information is the funeral home. They have a role in the death certificate. They act as the go between setting up the burial. They have contact with usually family members. They often arrange for the burial notice or the obit. Of course the first challenge is finding the name of the funeral home, the second does it still exist, and the third being the age of the record. I have found a lot of them to be very cooperative if I can find them and the records still exist. I have gotten them to read details off to me on the phone or I ask questions such as I say I assume such and such was the next of kin and they confirm. If you can not find the grave they can be a great source to find the burial. I always ask them did they arrange an obit and if it is in the file they know where and when it ran.
As for the last question about legal resource .... this is not a public institution where you can use FOIA. It is a private business. You have to remember they get inundated with phone calls from people doing genealogy. A letter saying you are trying to resolve family matters (don't say genealogy) might get a response but don't assume they have kept detailed information on the person's life.
I am looking for Plagai, Lithuania. The nearest I can find is Plunge, Lithuania and Plagai is NOT one of the alternate spellings. It was supposed to be in the state of Suvalk, Russia or Poland (in the late 1800's). I have a relative who was born in Shakki (now Sakiai, Lithuania. I found Suvalk (now Suwalki, Poland) and Shakki. I found this reference on Lith Births to Plagi vil, Zyple area, Wladyslavow, Suwalki.
Please help me find Plagai, Lithuania. I have researched JewishGen Town Finder, the Gazetteer, and Google for Plagai. The family lore says that when the Jews of the area were force to take surnames, my ancestors surname became Plager. Sorta like Moses ben Chaim Plager! And the surname Plagar was off and recreating! So where is my hometown?
Thanks in advance!
Jewish Genealogy SIG of Naples/Collier Co FL
Join our FB page at Jewish Genealogy SIG: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hellojewishgen
Charlotte (Lotte) Friedmann from Breslau #germany
Lotte (Charlotte) Friedmann from Breslau, Germany (now Wroclaw, Poland) came to Scotland in the 1930s and we know that in 1937, she was employed as an ‘English correspondent’ by a company in Aberdeen. She lived at the time with a Mrs Benson. In February 1940, the Aberdeen Press & Journal reported that Lotte Friedmann was convener of the Aberdeen Refugee Centre. In 1943, there is an account of Lotte giving a political talk to the Aberdeen Housewives' Association. But what became of Lotte after the war? Did she stay in the area? Does anyone have any knowledge of this lady?
In 1999, Charlotte Friedmann of Ramat HaSharon in Israel submitted a Page of Testimony to Yad VaShem about her father-in-law, Louis Friedmann from Breslau. Perhaps Charlotte or someone who knows her may read this posting.
Scottish Jewish Archives Centre
Re: Translate two Hebrew words #translation
There is little doubt that the reference on your tombstone is to a word that means monument. It appears in The Book of Malachim II (King 2), Chapter 23.
An adequate English translation would be:
Then he said: 'What monument (Tsiyun) is that which I see' And the men of the city told him: 'It is the sepulcher of the man of G-d, who came from Judah…'
Also note, the word Zion (as in Zionism) is in Hebrew pronounced as Tsi’on (the last syllable ~as “on” in pion), while the Hebrew pronunciation of the word for monument (with the same Hebrew consonants, but different vowels) is pronounced Tsi’un (the last syllable ~as “oon” in saloon).
Re: Why Would Patronyms be Used Well After Formal Last Names Were Required?: Michalowicz vs. Leurie #names
Quite a few members of my family reverted back to patronymic names in the UK after having been given surnames they did not like in the old country. Some who went from UK to US, or direct from old country to USA also did the same. It is not uncommon. I also have examples of both the given surname and the patronymic being used at the same time.
Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK
To find a name or a place in the list, first go the the APERTUS search page:
Enter the name or place or any other search item.
Click on "Landeshauptarchiv Koblenz"
Click on "Auswanderer"
Most entries will be at Bestand 441 or Bestand 442, but it is worth going through all Bestand numbers and all the other archives.
You can narrow the search by putting several terms into the search box. For example, if you search for "Mayer Chicago", you will get 12 results.
The link I provided recently is for the Hessen archives, which is independend of the Rheinland-Pflalz archives and will give you more results so you should search in both data bases. For Hessen the search page is https://arcinsys.hessen.de/arcinsys/einfachesuche.action
"Mayer Chicago" will provide 14 hits.
Other emigrant data bases are:
Bremerhaven emigrants: https://www.deutsche-auswanderer-datenbank.de/index.php?id=535&L=1 (click on "Online")
Migra Base: http://www.wgff-migrabase.de/suchen.php
Here is a list (in German) of German emigration data bases.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I had a "due to privacy", about taking photos
of graves. Email was no help but I sent a printed
letter and a reply that matches the British policy.
No movies, stills are fine.
I did NOT include a phone number or email address.
When refusing information is more trouble than supply,
it can work.
When you start to read readin,
how do you know the fellow that
wrote the readin,
wrote the readin right?
Long Branch Saloon
Dodge City, Kansas
On Thursday, May 20, 2021, 11:17:54 PM GMT+3, Jx. Gx. <mrme1914@...> wrote:
I contacted the NYC cemetery where my ggf and ggm are buried and asked if they could check the burial file for my ggf and tell me the name of the congregation that he belong to because I'm certain it would be included in the actual original folder. The guy refused to give me that information. All he kept repeating is that its "against our protocol" to release any information beyond the name of the burial society. That bit of information is worthless because the society's name is already mounted on the entry gate to the cemetery section where my ggf is buried. It seems to me the guy doesn't want to get up from his comfortable chair and search through dusty old burial folders in storage. Its easier for him to look at his computer database that has minimal information. Is there any legal recourse in getting recalcitrant cemetery officials to do their job and help relatives with the information they need?
Re: Where can I find Lodz Court records for 1949 #lodz
I am also very interested in how to contact the court of justice in Lodz as I am looking for the reasons for a court decision dating back to 1922.
Thank you for your help.--
Which cemetery in New York?
There still are some cemeteries which have not yet computerized their card files (including the one near Philadelphia where I have a gm, 2 g-gms, a g-g-gm, and other relatives; fortunately, the office personnel there were quite accommodating when I made a personal visit some years ago).
Ken Ryesky, Petach Tikva, Israel kenneth.ryesky@...
RAISKY/REISKY, ARONOV, SHKOLNIK(OV), AEROV; Gomel, Belarus
GERTZIG, BRODSKY; Yelizavetgrad, Ukraine
BRODSKY, VASILESKY; Odessa, Ukraine
IZRAELSON, ARSHENOV; Yevpatoriya, Ukraine (Crimea)
Re: Birth Records For Leurie Michalowitz #records
On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 09:13 AM, Shelley Mitchell wrote:
Tiraspol in Moldava. ...Dubassary, RussiaUntil early 20th century Dubossary was a shtetl in the Tiraspol uezd, Tiraspol being the uezd capital in the Kherson governorate. These towns, which are 40 mi apart, are now part of Moldova, although technically in the breakaway region of Transnistria.
In addition to Renee's comment about "Kevguberna" being a broken phone version of Kiev gubernia (governorate, province, etc), I'd like to add that the last name Coopersmith is likely not the original name. Perhaps, it was changed in the US from something like Kupershmid/Kupershmit/Kupershmidt. Zaslovsky was likely Zaslavsky.
The town, you refer to as Tative and Teteve, sounds like Tetiev, which was part of Tarashcha uezd in Kiev governorate from 1795 until 1922. Belaya Tserkov is about half way between Tetiev and Kiev, 45-50 mi each direction.
Also, Odessa doesn't have an Ostrova suburb.
This coming Sunday, May 23, 2021, the Phoenix Jewish Genealogy Group will present Suzanne Kelting Myers and her talk: "From Bourbon to Blue Jeans: Bavarian Jews and Their Influence on American Culture."
This virtual presentation is free of charge and open to all. To register, go to: https://www.azjhs.org/from-bourbon-to-blue-jeans
"From Bourbon to Blues Jeans: Bavarian Jews and Their Influence on American Culture” will begin with an overview of Jewish immigration to the United States: Sephardic Jews prior to 1800; the German-speaking Jews in the 19th century (post-1813 and post-1848); and the Eastern European wave between 1880 and 1920. Pressures from cultural and legal events in Bavaria, especially those relating to the Napoleonic Era, and to a lesser extent those relating to the German revolutions of 1848-1849, and how they affected the status of Jews in the region will be discussed. The patterns of immigration, the conditions required to travel, and the ports of arrival in the United States by individuals and families will be reviewed. Jewish men who settled in the United States were identified by the state not by their religious affiliation but by their race (white) and therefore had all the rights that other white males in society held: citizenship, voting rights, and land-owning. How this distinction supported their ability to flourish economically and to fully participate in civic life was significant.
Suzanne Kelting Myers, D.O. is fascinated by the immigration of Jewish immigrants during the 19th century and how they became involved in various vocations, especially those in the American West. She uses her anthropology perspective as an approach to genealogy, her teaching background to communicate and educate, and her medical training to integrate science (including DNA) into her research. She is the editor of Tidbits, the newsletter for the West Valley Genealogical Society in Youngtown, and has been involved with the San Francisco Bay Area Jewish Genealogical Society’s project to transcribe all Jewish burial records in the Bay Area.
Taking up genealogy seriously about 15 years ago, she has traveled to four European countries and more than a dozen states to pursue her family’s history. She has completed Boston University’s certificate program and is an alumnus of the ProGen study group. Her educational opportunities to genealogical institutes have been facilitated by a ProGenealogist scholarship in 2020 and the Donn Devine scholarship in 2021.
She is the owner of Expedition Genealogy and is Adjunct Faculty at Midwestern University in the College of Osteopathic Medicine.
Emily Garber, Chair
Phoenix Jewish Genealogy Group
a committee of the Arizona Jewish Historical Society
Re: Online list of emigrants from Germany - translation #germany
How can this database be accessed?
Sunday June 13th 10:00 am Pacific Time, Gill Bardage on DNA
Sunday July 25th 10:00 am Pacific Time, Megan Lewis on Doing Research
in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Sunday August 22nd 10:00 am Pacific Time, Serafima Velkovic on Doing
Research Online at Yad Vashem
Sunday September 19th 10:00 am Pacific Time, Greg Nelson on Procuring
records from Eastern Europe for the Family History Library in Salt
Sunday October 24th 10:00 am Pacific Time, Arthur Kurzweil on the
History of Jewish Genealogy
Sunday November 21st 10:00 am Pacific Time, Aaron Ginsburg on Finding
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Michael Moritz (New York)
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The Orange County California Jewish Genealogy Society May meeting with
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Michelle Sandler MLS
Glenn Mantel <glennmantel@...> asked his Coopersmith, Nierenberg, Zaslovsky, Greenfield, Birnbaum, Satz and Mantel relatives.
It's important to learn what you can about immigrants from their U.S. records before attempting to search in Europe. There are so many sources to turn to for more information -- vital and cemetery records, immigration and naturalization records, censuses, draft records, etc. etc.
Two of the sources that would be helpful to your search:
1) The online databases that exist for a number of New York area Jewish cemeteries. Searching on these sites will often lead you to additional relatives. It will also show you the societies on whose grounds these relatives are buried -- often clues to place of origin. So, for example...
o Solomon and Golda (Gussie) Coopersmith can be found on the Mount Zion Cemetery site (http://www.mountzioncemetery.com/search.asp?type=interment), on the grounds of Congregation Agudath Achim Misode Lovon. A number of Nierenbergs are also buried in that section, and a Nurenberg.
According to the JGSNY's Burial Society Database (https://jgsny.org/searchable-databases/burial-society-databases), this society (or synagogue?) was associated with the town that's now Bila Tserkva, Ukraine -- https://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/community.php?usbgn=-1035624 . This town is about 50 miles from Kiev and was once located within Kiev Gubernia (province) -- hence the references you have found to "Kevguberna" and the like.
o Wellwood Cemetery's site (http://wellwoodcemetery.com/search/) lists, in addition to Meyer, these Coopersmiths buried on the grounds of Congregation United Brethren of Sodah Loven: Michael, William, and Louis (his brothers?) and Anna (a sister-in-law?). Also in the section: Rose Rappaport (Meyer's sister?). This organization is also associated with Bila Tserkva.
o Mount Ararat Cemetery's online listings (http://www.mountararatcemetery.com/search.asp) include the adjacent graves of Bertha and Michael Birnbaum, who died in 1977 and 2004. They appear to be in a private plot.
o The Mount Hebron Cemetery site (https://www.mounthebroncemetery.com/#search) shows that Julius Greenfield is buried very near Etta -- perhaps his wife. They also are in a private plot, not on society grounds.
2) Also, since I'm JRI-Poland's town leader for Mielec, some comments on Michael Birnbaum....
Indeed, his U.S. WWII draft card says that he was born in Mielec in 1913.
No Jewish vital records survive for Mielec -- just a relatively small number of civil records that reference vital events. But Jewish Records Indexing - Poland (JRI-Poland.org) has a large collection of army draft registrations for Mielec, including what appears to be Michael's -- Meilech Birnbaum, son of Abraham Chaim Birnbaum and Schifra Thaler. These parents' names match those on Michael's Social Security record on Ancestry.
For information on more recent Mielec records, please contact me directly.
Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills NY