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Re: Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa

Sherri Bobish
 

Jeffrey,

There is no reason why a cemetery would have the name of a congregation.

However, the landsmanshaftn can be a source of further research.  You can check for NYC landsmanshaftn incorporation records.  I have obtained some, and they can provide more names to search, and some of the more wordy ones are quite interesting.
https://jgsny.org/?view=article&id=21:index-to-incorporations&catid=34

https://archives.cjh.org/repositories/3/resources/461

Also try YIVO's Landsmanshaftn Collection:
https://jgsny.org/searchable-databases/indexes-to-jewish-organizations/yivo-landsmanshaftn-collection

You may find more info on the landsmanshaftn by searching old digitized newspapers.  One free site to search is:
https://fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html

You may have to try different spellings, as the names of landsmanshaftn often got spelled in many different ways.

Also look at JGSNY's database here:
https://jgsny.org/searchable-databases/burial-society-databases/burialsoc-joodb
Many landsmanshaftn had plots in more than one cemetery.

Good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish


Re: Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa

Michele Lock
 

If your relatives died prior to 1949, their NYC death records are likely on FamilySearch.org. If you find the extracted record there, the image (front and back) of the actual death certificate will be available, for persons who know how to download the images. The folks at the Facebook Group 'New York City Genealogy' are able to get the images for those who request them, if a death record is found on FamilySearch.

On the images that I have, the funeral director's names are written, along with their address. If you can somehow locate those individuals, perhaps you can find out more about the congregation that your family members belonged to.

On the other hand - since funerals did not take place at synagogues, there might not be a reason to write such information down in any sort of record.

One other way to figure out what congregation your family belong to - on a marriage certificate, the name of the rabbi will be written. If your great grandparents had children who married in NYC, you might be able to get a rabbi's name that way, and then figure out the corresponding synagogue. The images of NYC marriage certificates I have show both the rabbi's name and address. A newspaper wedding announcement or an obituary might also help you out, though it is my understanding that these were not so common for NYC. 

--
Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus


Re: Need Assistance with Genealogy Databases - Not finding names #names #ukraine

Michele Lock
 

Likewise, Greenfield was most likely originally Grunfeld or Gruenfeld.

When your family members traveled to the US, they would have been listed on the ship passenger lists under their old surnames, and not the Americanized versions of them. The first names would most likely have been the Yiddish versions of their Hebrew names.
--
Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus


Re: Need Assistance with Genealogy Databases - Not finding names #names #ukraine

Sherri Bobish
 

Glenn,

What you have written here are nice family stories, but it is not documentation.  For instance, you write: 
"Solomon came to America as a translator; he returned to Russia to bring his wife and two children, Mike and Myer here in 1901."

However, you also write that Myer was born in 1903 in Russia.

I believe that Mike, Myer & their Mom arrived in NY in 1906.  Husband Solomon was not on the ship with them, so he apparently did not return to Russia to bring them here.

The names are:
Kuperschmidt, Golde, b. circa 1880
Kuperschmidt, Meier, b. circa 1905
Kuperschmidt, Meisch, b. circa 1903

Arriving May 22, 1906.

They are from "Bialyczerkow" which I believe may be
Bila Tserkva, Ukraine, which was in Kiev province prior to WW1.
https://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/community.php?usbgn=-1035624

They were bound for Golde's husband - S. Coopersmith in NY.

Manifest can be seen at:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9PT-XKRQ?i=46&cc=1368704&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJFC5-12N

Begin your research with what you know, and go back slowly generation by generation.  Document everything with vital records, census, ship manifests, naturalization papers, etc.  After doing all that you can begin to search for records from the town of origin.

For instance, the family is easily found on the 1925 NY State census, and Solomon Coopersmith's court of naturalization is filled in there.

Good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish


Re: What does the abbreviation "MZ" or "M3" mean in the Creed column of the 1897 Russian census? #translation #russia #records

Jules Levin
 

The Russian government was not adverse to having official subdivisions
within minority groups [after all, Russians themselves were officially
subdivided by class].  For example, in the annuals published in
Lithuania on the local ethnogeography, there are 3 official Jewish
religions:  Hasidim, Misnagdim, and Karaites.  [The orphanage organized
by the Vilna Gaon also included the Karaim as a Jewish branch.]  By 1897
there existed a Russophone wealthy community that built the Choral
Synagogues in the large cities, including St. Petersburg.  They used a
bilingual siddur--Russian and Hebrew.  There were Jewish newspapers
published in Russian.  It was a peculiarly Russian Reform movement. 
"Mosaic Law" might be referring to membership in such a synagogue.  
Russia had no tolerance for unofficial splinter groups, especially if
they originated in the Orthodox Church. Evangelical Christian sects were
never tolerated and were treated worse than the Jews.

Jules Levin, Los Angeles


On 5/21/2021 8:43 AM, ben.zitomer@... wrote:
Thank you for that explanation, Ilya. Do you know why only the first
four Volodarsky family members were listed with "Moses' Law", while
the the other four members were listed as Jewish with the notation
"Iud/Yud"? What is the difference between "M3" and "Iud"? I've gone
through thousands of census pages, and this is the only record I've
seen that used the abbreviation "M3".

Thank you,
Ben Zitomer
ben.zitomer@...


Isaac Luria genealogy #general

Peter Cohen
 

Is anyone aware of credible trees regarding the ancestry or descendants of Isaac Luria (1534 - 1572)?  I have seen multiple trees that have him as the son of Solomon Luria, the Maharshal (1510 - 1573 or 74).  That seems unlikely. Biographies of Isaac Luria say his father died when Isaac was a child and Solomon Luria died after Isaac died. In addition, Isaac was born, lived and died in Jerusalem, Safed and Egypt, and Solomon was born and died in Poland.

I ask because I recently found a picture of the 1887 gravestone in Vilna of a relative (Zlata Hinda Luria Rotkovitz) that says she is descended from Isaac Luria.  I don't know if any of Isaac Luria's descendants ever lived in Eastern Europe.

Peter Cohen
California


Re: Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa

Robert Hanna
 

I would try the cemetery one more time.  You might get a different person who will be more helpful (if they even have the information).  You might also try the Center for Jewish History in NYC.  They may have information on the burial society that is more extensive.

Robert Hanna
NYC


Re: Plagai, Lithuania - I'm lookin' for it, You got it? #lithuania #poland

Peter Lobbenberg
 

Hi Arthur, It's Plégai for sure.  See https://www.centropa.org/photo/berl-plager-his-wife-beile-plager-and-their-friend 
(14km SE of Shakki/Šaklai)

Best wishes
Peter Lobbenberg, London
peterlob@... 


Re: Online list of emigrants from Germany - translation #germany

Peter Lobbenberg
 

https://apertus.rlp.de/

Peter Lobbenberg, London, UK


Re: Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa

David Harrison
 

I have read many letters in this series.  It seems that your systems in the USA are very different to the systems in these islands and elsewhere in Europe for which I have searched.  Always historic records of BMD are kept nationally.  In various towns cemeteries are owned by (groups of) Synagogues or the town or a church etc.  If I am searching in any area of which I have no local knowledge, I contact the local Information Office for advice on where to search.  If I am lucky in the UK, there may be a Local History Society .   More than once, if searching in person, the owner of the B&B might know which person would have the knowledge, in one case her mother, who came over the following evening and told us much about the family of the great grandparents.  In another a member of the local history society did a pile of research in their files going back a couple of hundred years for a very small fee.  In Europe, archivists have trolled through their records.  The big problem is Victorian Railway Engineers who in one case drove a line through a graveyard which then became the town wharf and now houses the Registrar Office for BMD and Civil marriages are made there..  But in old graves there may be just a plot without a stone, but the town has a record of the plot.

David Harrison
Birmingham, England


From: main@... <main@...> on behalf of A. E. Jordan via groups.jewishgen.org <aejordan=aol.com@...>
Sent: 21 May 2021 12:51
To: mrme1914@... <mrme1914@...>; main@... <main@...>
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jx. Gx. <mrme1914@...>
I contacted the NYC cemetery where my ggf and ggm are buried and asked if they could check the burial file for my ggf and tell me the name of the congregation that he belong to because I'm certain it would be included in the actual original folder. The guy refused to give me that information.


I have done a lot of work at the NYC area cemeteries and the level of cooperation varies greatly between cemetery and even the individual you are dealing with, and of curse the day. However, I think from my experience people way over estimate the amount of information the cemeteries have in their files. Pre-pandemic I had the opportunity with my work to "go behind the wall" so to speak at some of the offices. Recently for one of the research cases I was working on when I got to the grave it was a double stone for husband and wife but no one had ever had the wife's information completed after death so it only had her name. We needed more information so I decided to write the office, not call, and explained only in basic terms that I needed to document the grave and could they send me the file or something. I expected a letter but instead they also sent a copy of the individual's burial card.

Based on a lot of hours spent working with cemeteries I believe they know the name of the person, age, who made the arrangements or who was considered "responsible" for the grave in the sense of a contact for care.Some record where the person died and that is about it. If there was a contract for the purchase of the plot or grave they have that and a lot of them have notations if or when a stone was set. They mostly record the date of burial versus date of death.

Cemeteries for the most part have the contract for the grave if it was purchased from them and not via the society. They have the burial permit (different than the death certificate) and that's about it. They are going to know the name of the funeral home although that often does not get transferred into their files either.

They do not collect voluminous amounts of details about the deceased person ... they have no need for it. Basically they need to know what grave to open, when it will be used and the permission to do the burial.

I have seen into those "magic" files and they just are not a complete as people hope. Add in the number of years and the information that survives declines further.

The older cemeteries have one other tool that hey do not publicize which is the burial books. They are strictly by date or some also have them by society plot. In those cases they are nothing more than name, date and location. One of the cemeteries I work with at least in the old days occasionally made notes specifically if someone was removed from their grave in the burial book. I was looking for a grave last Sunday at that cemetery and could not find it and the office after checking the computer went and pulled the burial book and it showed the person was removed and they had the date and where the person was transferred.

Specifically in response to the individual question ,,, why would the cemetery have collected the name of the person's congregation if it was different than the burial society? Who would they have kept that all these years later?  They simply do not need those type of details to do their business. A better question might be if they know anything or have any details or contacts for the burial society. That might lead to the congregation if there was a connect but a lot of the societies were independent social organizations. Often if you find they are still in business at all, the society is maintained by the oldest member out of a shoe box or a ledger book and not much else.

The location in the process that collects the information is the funeral home. They have a role in the death certificate. They act as the go between setting up the burial. They have contact with usually family members. They often arrange for the burial notice or the obit. Of course the first challenge is finding the name of the funeral home, the second does it still exist, and the third being the age of the record. I have found a lot of them to be very cooperative if I can find them and the records still exist. I have gotten them to read details off to me on the phone or I ask questions such as I say I assume such and such was the next of kin and they confirm. If you can not find the grave they can be a great source to find the burial. I always ask them did they arrange an obit and if it is in the file they know where and when it ran.

As for the last question about legal resource .... this is not a public institution where you can use FOIA. It is a private business. You have to remember they get inundated with phone calls from people doing genealogy. A letter saying you are trying to resolve family matters (don't say genealogy) might get a response but don't assume they have kept detailed information on the person's life.

Allan Jordan
New York







Re: Charlotte (Lotte) Friedmann from Breslau #germany

sfalkjd@...
 

Harvey:  Do you have any indication whether the Charlotte FRIEDMANN in Scotland was married?

I ask because the Charlotte FRIEDMANN who was still alive and Ramat HaSharon in 1999 was born Charlotte HEPNER and married FRIEDMANN.  Her parents were Ismar HEPNER (1889-ca.1943) and Else REICHENBACH (1892-ca.1943).   If the woman in Scotland was single, she would not be the one who left the UK for Israel.

All the best,
Stephen FALK
Point Roberts, WA, USA
sfalkjd@...


Re: Plagai, Lithuania - I'm lookin' for it, You got it? #lithuania #poland

Peter Lobbenberg
 

Hi Arthur

Among others I found the following, just in case any of them help!:

Plégai, 14km SE of Šaklai 
Plokščiai - less than 20km NE of Šakiai, and Pelučiai - just across the river, less than 10km further as the crow flies, albeit a long way by road
Pagiai - 104km north of Šakiai
Also Pagégiai, Pagiriai, Plonénas, and - this one's in Poland, 35km SE of Suwałki - Płaska.

Good luck!
Peter Lobbenberg, London, UK
peterlob@...




Family from Roman Romania #romania

Ruth West
 

My Great grandmother was visiting Milwaukee during the 1910 census.  Her name was recorded as Denah Saragat.  i have seen the last name speddel several ways.
She was from Roman, Romania. If any one has thoughts about where I could look for the family information please email me ruthbwest@...
She may have had relatives that ended up in Paris.  
 
 
Thank you Ruth Berk West


Re: Where can I find Lodz Court records for 1949 #lodz

Lewis, Megan
 

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has the Lodz Sąd Grodzki (Municipal Court) court files for cases involving declaring someone dead for the years 1946-1950.  The catalog record for this collection is at https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn562578.  The finding aid for this collection, which you can access by clicking on the finding aid button, lists the names of the people involved.  The finding aid is in Polish so you need to be mindful on the Polish declensions that change the ending of names. We have Sąd Grodzki records from over 25 cities in towns in Poland.  Researchers can search our Collections Search catalog at https://collections.ushmm.org.

Cannot help with the 1922 records, sorry. You might want to check the website of the Lodz branch of the Polish National Archives to see if they have the court records.

Megan Lewis
USHMM


Re: What does the abbreviation "MZ" or "M3" mean in the Creed column of the 1897 Russian census? #translation #russia #records

ben.zitomer@...
 

Thank you for that explanation, Ilya. Do you know why only the first four Volodarsky family members were listed with "Moses' Law", while the the other four members were listed as Jewish with the notation "Iud/Yud"? What is the difference between "M3" and "Iud"? I've gone through thousands of census pages, and this is the only record I've seen that used the abbreviation "M3". 

Thank you,
Ben Zitomer
ben.zitomer@...


This week's Yizkor book excerpt on the JewishGen Facebook page #yizkorbooks #belarus #JewishGenUpdates

Bruce Drake
 

In 1933, a circus passed through Glubokie (Hlybokaye) in Belarus and one of the performers, an unprepossessing man who struck townspeople as a ” poor, dejected outcast” stayed behind.
No one could imagine that this poor, dejected, outcast who was nicknamed “Tzirkovetz” (one who is part of a circus) could possibly be a German spy.
But by the end of the summer of 1939, before the German attack on Poland, the results of his undercover work began to make themselves felt. In 1941, he showed up as part of the German Civil Administration “But he was no longer the downcast, pitiful, lonely character, but outfitted in genuine German, sparkling new Fascist uniform. He now looked like a authentic Hitlerite hangman.”
“The German Spy Vitvitzki” from the Glubokie Yizkor book is an account of the increasingly vicious role he played under the Nazis. “Whatever happened to him, this bloody German spy will remain in the memory of the few surviving Jews of Glubokie and the surrounding area, as a symbol of the hateful, freakish reptile, who carried with him death, destruction and annihilation…”
 

--
Bruce Drake
Silver Spring, MD

Researching: DRACH, EBERT, KIMMEL, ZLOTNICK
Towns: Wojnilow, Kovel


Re: Explanation of the name #names

Stephen Weinstein
 

This is the type of question to which a private reply would normally be appropriate, but the answer indicates you may be unwittingly researching a famous family of more general interest.

Zalmanson means "son of Zalman".

Reb Yosef Bunim Wallis married the daughter of Reb Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev

You're probably looking at one of their descendants, and someone with the inherited surname Wallis and who was from the place Berditchev.

What's really fascinating, or at least of more general interest, is the marriages between this family and the Lubavitch-Chabad dynasty.

Take a look, for example, at

http://www.berdichev.org/shabbos_story.html

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1007604/jewish/A-Brief-Biography.htm

Or just Google some of the names -- there's a ton of information out there, some of it true, most of it legend.


On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:17 PM, <hsalmenson@...> wrote:
Yekutiel Zalman of Berdichev Wallis
1: There does not appear to be a last name, I am researching the last name Zalmanson. From what I can ascertain Yekutial Zalman was the father of Levi Yitzhak Zalmanson.
2: I understand that he was from Berdichev but am not sure what the Wallis represents. In some parts of the tree the last name of Wallis does appear

 
--
Stephen Weinstein
Camarillo, California, USA
stephenweinstein@...


Re: Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa

Stephen Weinstein
 

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:17 PM, Jx. Gx. wrote:
the guy doesn't want to get up from his comfortable chair and search through dusty old burial folders in storage.  Its easier for him to look at his computer database that has minimal information.  Is there any legal recourse in getting recalcitrant cemetery officials to do their job and help relatives with the information they need
It's not "their job".  Their job is to bury the recently deceased and to care for the older graves.  Any assistance they provide to researchers is a courtesy, not an entitlement, and not likely to be forthcoming when the requester has an attitude problem or insults them.

 
--
Stephen Weinstein
Camarillo, California, USA
stephenweinstein@...


Re: Uncooperative Cemetery Personnel #usa

Gail H. Marcus
 

Don't know if I've just been lucky, but I usually find the cemetery staff remarkably helpful.  At times, they have gone to their archives and called me back.  Or, when they couldn't find something, they suggested alternatives to check (name variants, nearby cemeteries, etc.).  More than once, it's helped me identify a relative.  Maybe it is the person or the time of day.  Or just a lucky chance.

I should, however, note that I've never asked for the congregation.  And I've never had anyone offer me the name of a congregation, so I don't know if the real issue is that they don't save this kind of information.  And I can say that privacy rules have made them more reluctant to give exact home addresses or names of next of kin, especially for burials in the last 50 years.  However, they will verify a name or address if I ask. 

But overall, I have been very impressed at how helpful they have been, when, after all, these kinds of questions are a distraction from their main business.

Gail Marcus
Bethesda, MD


Reuniting holocaust survivor’s missing families #holocaust #education

cnmnnewman@...
 

Jewish Community Center of Greater Ann Arbor

Sunday May 30, 2020 at 7:30 p.m. EDT

Zoom Webinar

Speaker: Jennifer Mendelsohn


Jennifer Mendelsohn will share her heartwarming stories of the reunions resulting from her research and how she was able to solve many genealogy mysteries.


Jennifer’s work has appeared in The New York Times, People, The Washington Post, and Slate.  She also administers and frequently contributes to facebook’s the Jewish DNA for Genetic Genealogy and Family Research. Her presentations on how to research your family and DNA testing are popular with beginning and expert genealogists alike .A question and answer session will follow the presentation.    

 

All are welcome; attendance is free. Click here on the 30th at 7:30 pm to join the program. 

 

Submitted by:

Chuck Newman

Host of Conversations

Ann Arbor, Michigan

 

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