How were Hungary censuses conducted? #hungary

Dan Rottenberg

This is a request for insight into how the Hungary censuses of 1848, 1857 and 1869 were conducted. Was the information gathered over days, weeks, months?
The question is relevant to me as I wrestle with a strange discovery. In the 1848 census for Sebeskellemes (aka Kellemes), a village on the outskirts of Eperjes (now Presov), it appears that the same woman is listed in two separate households and two different marital situations. To wit:
— Household #448 lists Sali Tannenbaum as a widow living with her mother and five children, the youngest of whom are named Jakab (born 1840) and Mozes Tannenbaum (1846).
— But Household #431 lists a Sali Klein living in her grandmother's house with her husband Lipot Jolesz. This same Lipot and Sali Jolesz are listed in the 1857 Kellemes census with three children of their own plus two sons of Sali from a prior marriage: Jakab Tannenbaum (born 1840) and Moritz Tannenbaum (1846).
In a village as small as Kellemes, it seems unlikely that there would be two sets of brothers name Jabak and Moses Tanenbaum, both born in 1840 & 1846 to a mother named Sali. So  Sali Tannenbaum and Sali Klein Jolesz must be the same person. But how could she be listed in 2 different houses and marital situations in the 1848 census?
My best guess is that Sali Tanenbaum musty have been the widowed head of her own household when the first census taker came around; and by the time a later census taker came by (perhaps weeks or months later), she had married Lipot Jolesz and moved into her grandmother's house with him. Is there any other explanation? Thanks for any insight you can provide!
Dan Rottenberg
Philadelphia PA

This week's Yizkor book excerpt on the JewishGen Facebook page #belarus #JewishGenUpdates #yizkorbooks

Bruce Drake

“Only stories are left, memories, nostalgia and a heart torn in infinite grief.”
“Only Memories Are Left” from the Yizkor book of Dokshitz (Dokshytsy) in Belarus is one of the most beautiful, evocative descriptions of life in the shtetl I have read, so I didn’t try to shorten it as I do with some very long chapters. Everything is here: town life, descriptions of the countryside, the work people do, the challenges they face, the cheder, and the celebrations of holidays. There are also accounts of those who chose to leave for America or to make Aliyah to Eretz Israel, and the emotions that these decisions stirred, knowing that they would remember Dokshitz forever.

Bruce Drake
Silver Spring, MD

Towns: Wojnilow, Kovel

Re: Seeking photo in Northampton, Mass #photographs #usa

Lin Mor

May I suggest you also contact the public library in Northampton where there may be items in their archives related to your cousins' business? BTW, Northampton is a lovely town. 

Linda Cohen Morzillo
Saratoga Springs, NY

Re: Looking for Mischeleivch family #lithuania

Robert Weinberg

How about: "Mishelevich M.D. Ph.D." <david@...>
Bob Weinberg

Re: how to post a query on Viewmate #general

Sam Eneman


It could be a number of different things. When JewishGen is back online, please submit the form on the ViewMate Help page:
and I will be happy to help you.


Sam Eneman
ViewMate Moderator

Re: Searching for Heyman family in Latvia and Montevideo, Uruguay #latinamerica


I am searching for information on my Grandmother Dora Felsman’s family.
I suggest you join Tracing the Tribe group on FB and post there, but you need to specify all the names and surnames to be able to help you.

Shosh Eizenshtein, Toronto 

Re: Need Help With DNA Puzzle #dna


Endogamy is probably the answer. Almost all  Ashkenazi jews are related ; they descend from 350 people back 600 or 800 years.

Claire Weill

Re: Seeking photo in Northampton, Mass #photographs #usa

Phyllis Eckstein

Hi Lauri,
I live in Northampton.  I’d be glad to take the photos.  I will get to to it during the week
Phyllis Eckstein

Re: Need Help With DNA Puzzle #dna

Adam Turner

DNA matching (especially as run through the AncestryDNA phasing algorithm) can produce some weird outliers, so a 124 cM match being 4C1R doesn't sound impossible to me. (Maybe you just happen to have two or three long blocks of shared DNA with Jodie that have been conserved to an unusual degree across the generations separating you, and these are keeping your match numbers significantly higher than most matches who are your 4C1R.) 

That said, 124 cM certainly is a higher amount of shared DNA than I've generally seen for a relationship in that range. In addition to cousin-marriage scenarios, I might look into the possibility that you are double cousins - if, say, Jacov Mordechai Galinsky and Isaac Galinsky's wives were themselves closely related to one another, that could also be inflating your match numbers. I match a number of 3C1R on AncestryDNA in the 100-150 cM range; most of these are actually double 3C1R to me, as my gg-grandfather's sister ended up marrying my gg-grandmother's brother.

Most of my regular 3C1R seem to have fewer and longer matching segments than those who are double 3C1R - a quick check suggests that the regular 3C1R usually have 5-7 matching segments, while the double 3C1R have 7-12 matching segments. So a 124 cM/9 segment match doesn't sound outside the realm of possibility if you actually have a double-cousin relationship to Jodie.

Adam Turner

Re: Need Help With DNA Puzzle #dna


I can top your match. On MyHeritage I have a 4th cousin once removed and we share 164.5 cM across 10 segments,
with the longest being 44.1 cM. According to to MH we should be second cousins or second cousins once removed.

We both have detailed trees going back to our mutual ancestors, born in the early 1800s and all we have been able to conclude from this high match score is that we have other mutual relatives that we don't know about. I see such multiple relationships on my trees.
Stephen Schmideg
Melbourne, Australia

Looking for Bruce Freed #usa #general

Sharon Ann Dror

Looking for a cousin Bruce Freed - born in New York.
Does anyone know how to reach Bruce Freed? He lived in Chicago, IL.
Mother Anna nee Siporin and Father Bernard Freed. Divorced and both deceased.
He has a sister Laurie Freed born May 23, 1941 in Brooklyn, NY.
He went to Tilden High School in Brooklyn, NY in 1963
Laurie also went to Tilden High School in 1958
I have information on Anna, Bernard and Laurie's whereabouts. Anna is buried in Los Angeles and remarried to a Doyle. Laurie lives in Los Angeles, her 2nd husband Milton Klorman passed away in 2019. She doesnt want anything to do with the family tree project.
It is only BRUCE that I want to find. What became of him?
Thanks in advance.

Sharon Ann Dror

Need Help With DNA Puzzle #dna


Hello Cousins,

I have a DNA puzzle that I hope you can help me solve. I have changed
the first names of living relatives to protect their privacy.

I was checking my new DNA matches on Ancestry, when I came across a
woman who Ancestry claimed is a 2nd to 3rd cousin. Jodie and I share
124 cM across 9 segments, the longest being 38 cM. She had a tree, so I
checked it out.

After finding our common ancestor, I discovered we're not 2nd or 3rd
cousins, but 4th cousins once removed. Jodie's maternal 2nd great
grandmother was Nasha (nee Galinsky) Zametsky. Nasha was the daughter
of Jacov Mordechai Galinsky. Jacov was the brother of Isaac Galinsky.
Isaac was my great grandfather (Joseph) Nathan Gellis' (Galinsky) father.

Now Ron Gellis is my 2nd cousin once removed. He is descended from
Nathan's brother Abraham. Ron and I share 121 cM across 7 segments,
with the longest being 31 cM. Sally Gellis is Ron's daughter and my 3rd
cousin. We share 53 cM across 4 segments, with the longest being 31 cM.
Peter Nathanson is also descended from Abraham and is my 3rd cousin.
We share 44 cM across 8 segments, with the longest being 13 cM.

These all make sense to me, but not the 124 cM that I share with Jodie.
How can we be such distant cousins sharing so much DNA?

Now I know DNA can be recombined and passed down in odd ways, but this
just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like DNA is coming from
someplace it shouldn't have.

Now one of Jacov's sons, Schmaya (Meyer), married his first cousin,
Goldie Gellis (Nathan's sister). I would imagine there'd be a double
dose of DNA there! I find no evidence of that sort of thing occurring
with Nasha.

Anyone have any ideas?

Jeri Friedman
Port Saint Lucie, Florida
KAPLAN, ROTENBERG (Bilgoraj, Lublin, Poland/Russia); LIEB/LEIBOWITZ, BLAU (Jassy/Iasi, Romania); GALINSKY, GELLIS (Suwalki, Poland/Russia);
(?, Poland/Russia); GOLDSTEIN, SCHRAGER (?, Romania); CYRULNIK (Suwalki, Poland/Russia and Kalvarija, Lithuania)

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

Seeking photo in Northampton, Mass #photographs #usa

Laurie Budgar

From approximately 1940-1979, siblings Louis and Leonard Budgor -- my first cousins twice removed -- ran Budgor Pharmacy at 1 Market St. in Northampton, Mass. The site of the business is now a coffee shop called The Roost. (See attached photo that I found online some time ago but failed to record where I found it -- perhaps the business's Facebook page.) At the time, I got in touch with the owners of the business, who told me they had many more photos of the original pharmacy on display at the business.

If anyone lives in the area, I would greatly appreciate photos of the current business, as well as any of the photos or other memorabilia they have on display. 

Many thanks!
Laurie Budgar
Longmont, CO


how to post a query on Viewmate #general

Toby Glickman

I have a JPG scan of a news article in Yiddish I would like translated.  I thought I had posted it via ViewMate to the Discussion Board but it never appeared.

Can you tell me what I did wrong and how to correct it?

Thank you
Toby Glickman

Re: Autosomal DNA Information for European Jews which is Not Being Revealed #dna

Michele Lock

From Ancestry DNA, I have also had matches with persons who have forebears 3-4 generations back who came from towns within 50 or so miles of my known forebears. Typically these are matches around 100 cM, with the longest segment about 20 cM, and average segment length 9-12 or so. And yet - no known common family members or common surnames. I chalk this up to endogamy and/or the common ancestor being a woman 3-4 generations back for whom we have no records, or for whom we do not know her married name, so we can't identify her descendants. For instance, according to the 1834 Revision list for Plunge, Lithuania, my great great grandfather Aron Lak had three sisters named Sheita, Judes, and Miriam. And that's all I know about them; I've never located any marriage or death records for them, unlike records for three Lak brothers in the same household. Yet these women would have passed their DNA on now through several generations, and I suspect they and other women of their time in my family are contributing to these types of DNA matches.

On the other hand, it is through Ancestry DNA that I've been able to discover an unknown sister to a great grandmother, an unknown sister to a great great grandmother, and figure out the married name of a known sister of a great grandfather.
Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus

Re: Autosomal DNA Information for European Jews which is Not Being Revealed #dna

Adam Turner

I have found numerous cases of this - people with ancestors from the same ancestral towns (or very close by), but who I have so far been unable to trace.

But I don't think it's really because there's meaningful information about geographic regions that the testing companies aren't making available to us. The "regions" that each company has created are just a function of various SNPs that are atypically common in particular populations. Perhaps the companies could make the regions a bit more granular than they are already, but that doesn't really tell us very much that a little research on a given match won't turn up anyway. It's interesting to know that a match came from the same sub-population as I did, but it's not particularly useful in a genealogical sense.

Instead, I suspect these cases of same town/significant match/no known connection fall into one of the following categories:

  • These people are actually your cousins in the 5th-7th cousin range, and the connection is simply too far back to trace with the available sources. If you were born in the 1950s, assuming about a 25-year age gap between generations, your fifth cousins will stem from branches that diverged from yours around the 1820s - right around the cusp of the era of surname adoption. Although autosomal testing will not register many (even most) of your 6th cousins as matches, this is counterbalanced by the fact that each generation you go back, you have an exponentially greater number of cousins - increasing the likelihood that you'll come across one with a DNA test.
  • The same thing as above, except even further back - people in the 8th-10th cousin range or even more distant. Since you have a huge number of cousins in this range, at least a handful of them will be outlier cases that share unusually high amounts of DNA with you, relative to most cousins in this range.
(The most distant of these outlier cases who I've come across so far on AncestryDNA is a probable 5C1R of mine. After being run through TIMBER and whatever else Ancestry uses to do its thing, the system gives her match numbers as a total match of 47 cM across 7 segments, unweighted shared DNA 70 cM, longest matching segment 12 cM. Generally, I would interpret a 47 cM match on AncestryDNA as a signal of a possible third or fourth cousin and a 12 cM longest block as too short to be anything meaningful, and write this match off as probably just endogamy - but subsequent research suggests that she is likely an outlier case with an unusually high amount of matching DNA for such a distant relationship: she is descended from a man born in the 1810s who I suspect was my gggg-grandfather's brother, and AncestryDNA is somehow registering a significant total match for her...even though it registers no match between me and her father, who also tested, and who is my probable 4C2R.)

Adam Turner

Searching for Heyman family in Latvia and Montevideo, Uruguay #latinamerica



I am searching for information on my Grandmother Dora Felsman’s family.  She was born Dora Heyman (Heiman) in Friedrichstadt, later Juanjelgava, Latvia in 1900. 

Two of her sisters emigrated to Montevideo, Uruguay.  Her sister Ruth never married and her other sister married in Uruguay and had 3 daughters, including twin girls.


Hannah Berkowitz

Westchester County, New York

Searching SubCarpathia,  Felsohidegpatak (Vysny Studeny), Irshava (Ilosva) and Uzhorod (Ungar),  and Latvia

Looking for Mischeleivch family #lithuania


Looking for Mischelevich family from Lithuania
Ronald I. Kaplan
Atlanta, Georgia

Looking for Schwamm family #ukraine


Looking for Schwamm family from Podwolocheskayy and Skalat in Galicia now Ukraine, with family also in Danzig, Holland, New York
Ronald I. Kaplan
Atlanta, Georgia

Autosomal DNA Information for European Jews which is Not Being Revealed #dna

Ralph Baer

I have taken autosomal DNA tests from both FTDNA and Ancestry. Like probably all others descended from central and eastern Europe Jews, my results exhibit a very large amount of endogamy. If I eliminate the known relatives (up to fourth or fifth cousins) who have taken these tests and look at only those who include some ancestral information, I still see that a lot of the closest predicted relatives have ancestors from the same general area where mine lived (southern and far western Germany). In a few such cases, I have been able to compare information with these people back through at least at least a half dozen generations e.g., the late Arthur Obermayer who was my closest predicted FTDNA match when I took that test, and there has been no indication of a likely common ancestor.
This indicates to me that if the DNA companies would divide European Jewry into several geographic regions, we could learn more. Although it is nice to know that I am 100% European Jewish. I suspect that there is additional information which we are not seeing.
What I would like to know is if others, especially those whose ancestors did not originate in southern and western Germany, also have significantly more of their highest matches from the same region as their ancestors came from than would be predicated purely by chance.
Ralph N. Baer        RalphNBaer@...       Washington, DC

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