Re: Leonardo DaVinci's Family Tree Traced Through His DNA #dna

Sarah L Meyer

  I think it was a Y chromosome study and females do not have a Y chromosome.  The Y goes back farther than the autosomal.  I am sure that he did have female descendants, it is just that they can't be found with the study that was done (other than standard genealogy from the men who were identified.

Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania

Re: Leonardo DaVinci's Family Tree Traced Through His DNA #dna


Tanya Roland, I don't believe that it is possible to trace female descendants using Y-chromosome comparisons.  But my understanding of the science is imperfect at best.

Undoubtedly they would exist, but they would be very difficult (near-impossible?) to trace, I'd think.

Marc Stevens

Re: Leonardo DaVinci's Family Tree Traced Through His DNA #dna


No female descendants? How odd!

Tanya Roland

Re: Posting to an online group in Israel #israel

Angie Elfassi

photo recognition #photographs



            Can anyone provide information where I can download a reliable photo-recognition app, or get someone experienced to look at some photos I have that I need to prove are the same person?  thank you

Re: Etymology of the Rudman surname #names


According to Dr. Beider, the name means "husband of Ruda" in Yiddish.  There are some Ashkenazi last names that were formed as "husband of <female given name>".

Mike Vayser

Researching Susiowitsohn and Schliomowna #germany #usa

Kay Miller

Dear JewishGen:  I am in need of help regarding 2 names that I have researched, but have not been able to locate any information.  They are, SUSIOWITSOHN, namely Louis (in the US) Leiba Susiowitsohn Laufman and SCHLIOMOWNA,  Tsipora Schliomowna. Louis is known to have lived in Stettin, Germany, but I do not know where Tsiporah is from. I would welcome any suggestions as to any meaning of these names or where to find further information. I do use, but only find Louis Laufman. Thank you so much for any advice offered. 

Kay Miller, New Jersey, USA





Re: Translate needed #translation


The words are "ohne Beruf", which means that she did not have a profession.    (People on such documents were almost always identified by their profession, which would precede their name.  If the person did not have one, then you will see these two words after their name).
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA

Re: Help to read the father's name on this gravestone, please #translation

Madeleine Isenberg

I concur with David Dubin.  In findagrave, you can see a link to a son who died young.  He was named Harris DUDIS, with the Hebrew-Yiddish pair, צבי הירש.  One might then assume he was named for a grandfather.

Madeleine Isenberg
Beverly Hills, CA
Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLÜCKSMAN, STOTTER in various parts of Galicia, Poland
(Nowy Targ, Nowy Sanz, Wachsmund, Dembno, Lapuszna, Krakow, Ochotnica) who migrated into Kezmarok or
nearby towns in northern Slovakia and Czech Republic (i.e., those who lived/had businesses in Moravska Ostrava);
GOLDSTEIN in Sena or Szina, Szkaros and Kosice, Slovakia; Tolcsva and Tokaj, Hungary.
GOLDBERG, TARNOWSKI in Chmielnik and KHANISHKEVITCH in Kielce, Poland

Global Reach Without Airfare or Postage #announcements #events #records

Marguerite Kealey


Sunday. July11th   

1-3 pm PT

Zoom Meeting and Presentation

Global Reach Without Airfare or Postage


Jordan Auslander


Covid travel restrictions and the time and cost of traveling have limited genealogists’ access to many essential onsite records. Jordan Auslander will demonstrate how to utilize expanding international resources. Available free or by subscription, foreign documentation, directories, and indices are available from home, libraries, and archives.     However, if you  choose to travel, using his extensive remote research experiences, he will show  how to optimize on-site visits

Jordan Auslander is a New York based genealogical researcher, lecturer, and expert witness. Jordan has pursued cases across the United States, Europe, and Israel. He has translated, created, and published an index to vital records in the Slovak State Archive system, Genealogical Gazetteer of the Kingdom of Hungary. (and articles including the history and documentation of US participants in WW1),

His interest in family history grew while stuck with sorting through bales of material his paternal grandmother accumulated.  He joined the Jewish Genealogical Society of New York in 1988, serving on its board 1994-96; member of the Association of Professional Genealogists and The New York Genealogical & Biographical Society.

In order to register for the presentation go to our website Welcome to the San Diego Jewish Genealogy Website ( and follow the registration directions

Marguerite Kealey
San Diego Jewish Genealogical Society   Program Chair
San Diego

Tell the world about your JGS #announcements #jgs-iajgs


All JGS’s are invited to purchase an ad in the Digital Guidebook for this year’s IAJGS virtual conference to promote your organization and support IAJGS.  This digital publication in flipbook format combines information that would be in a printed daily planner and the Banquet program.  It will be available to all registrants at the conference and on line for one year after the conference.  It will also include ads from the conference sponsors, exhibitors, IAJGS supporters and any organizations that want to reach conference attendees.

All details on size, format and pricing can be found on the conference website;  go to exhibitors/ads and select “How to advertise” on the pull-down menu. This new format allows ads with hot links enabling you to showcase your web site and any other accomplishments you already have online.

Diane M. Jacobs
Sponsors and Exhibitors Liaison

Re: 1809 Baden Name Adoption Lists #germany #names


I have no knowledge regarding other transcriptions where Rosenthal omitted data, but Ralph Baer's question illustrates a point I emphasize all the time to researchers:  Never, ever, ever rely only on a transcription if you can possibly avoid it.  Most transcriptions do not include all information from the original, and you never know if a mistake or alteration was made during the transcription.  Always make an effort to find the original documents to compare and to see if they have additional data.

Janice M. Sellers
Gresham, Oregon
BRAININ (Courland), GORODETSKY (Bessarabia), MEKLER (Grodno), NOWICKI (Grodno)

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 1:49 PM Ralph Baer via <> wrote:
> What surprised me is that there is some information which Rosenthal did not transcribe. That is the age of each of the male children is listed in one of two columns: “Nach Urkunden” (according to documents) and “Nach ungefährer Angabe” (according to approximate information/declaration). As explained in a lengthy text which I also received, the former refers to circumcision records. It probably refers to Wimpels, not a Mohelbuch. Has anyone seen similar information from other places in Baden from 1809 which Rosenthal omitted?

Everything turns out all right in the end. If it's not all right, it's not the end.

1809 Baden Name Adoption Lists #germany #names

Ralph Baer

I recently obtained a copy of the original of the 1809 family name adoption lists for Ettlingen and Malsch in the present-day Landkreis Karlsruhe (Karlsruhe county) in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. I had first seen Berthold Rosenthal’s transcriptions of these lists at the Leo Baeck Institute (LBI) more than 40 year ago. His transcriptions are now accessible on-line using DigiBaeck from the LBI website. I have attached the page containing the five families who lived in Ettlingen as well as the first five families listed for Malsch out of a total of 19. That includes the family (#10) of my great-great-great-grandparents Marx Nathan and Schönle who adopted the name BÄR and their then-three-year-old son Lazarus who was my great-great-grandfather.
What surprised me is that there is some information which Rosenthal did not transcribe. That is the age of each of the male children is listed in one of two columns: “Nach Urkunden” (according to documents) and “Nach ungefährer Angabe” (according to approximate information/declaration). As explained in a lengthy text which I also received, the former refers to circumcision records. It probably refers to Wimpels, not a Mohelbuch. Has anyone seen similar information from other places in Baden from 1809 which Rosenthal omitted?
Ralph N. Baer        RalphNBaer@...       Washington, DC

Leonardo DaVinci's Family Tree Traced Through His DNA #dna

Jan Meisels Allen

Leonardo da Vinci's genealogy was recently traced confirming 21 generations over 600 years. The research also identified 14 male descendants living today. The investigation was conducted over a decade by Museo Ideale Leonardo da Vinci director Alessandro Vezzosi and Associazione Leonardo Da Vinci Heritage president Agnese Sabato.


The research was published in the journal Human Evolution entitled "The New Genealogical Tree of the Da Vinci Family for Leonardo's DNA”.  See:

The tree starts in 1331 with the progenitor of the family. From Leonardo 21 preceding generations and concludes with 14 confirmed descendants currently living.


Da Vinci family's Y chromosome passed down to its male descendants had been the same since the progenitor and throughout the 25 generations. Based on the study, the results from the comparison between the modern Y chromosomes and ancient chromosomes found from burial grounds of the da Vinci family are an evidence of uninterrupted family tree.

To read more see:



Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


looking for information about jewish families in Selesia, Germany 1900-1939 #germany

dori jungmann

Dear madam, dear sir, Shalom!
my name is Dori Jungmann, i am from Jerusalem, and i am looking for my ancestors of the Jungmann family. it is hard for me to concentrate because i was angered in the 67 war in Jerusalem, so i appologise if i make any mistakes. my grandfather, Wilhelm Jungmann was born in a small town named MINKEN in east Selesia. Wilhelm Jungmann had 6-8 brother and at least 2 sisters. i myself am 76 years old and my injury makes me hard to concentrate so i hope you forgive me for my mistakes. my grandmother was born in Breslau to her parents  family Cohen or cohn. i forgot some details but my father Helmut Yehuda Jungmann left germany in 1933, and came as CHALUZ, pioneer to Emek Hayarden, Moshava Kineret. he volunteered to the british army together with 1500 Ereziaraelim called Mitnadvey ha Yeshuv, and became a POW, together with all the regiment in Kalamata Greece. i dont know where to get any information about my family and for long time i was thinking to write to you, may be you can halp me. i saw about 10 years ago the name Jungmann in Berlin, in the telefone book of 1928 Parmacy Jungmann, it is my grandfathers brother and his son. please, halp me to search the family in Selesia, in Minken, Brieg, Breslau. i will be very happy to get any segnificant information about my lost family.
with best regards and wishes, and thanks for any halp
Dori Jungmann, 24 Habrosh, Har Adar (near Jerusalem) my phone: 972-546-242-961

בלי וירוסים.

Dear Madam' dear Sir, my name is Dori Jungmann' i am from Israel' and i tried to contact you to become a member in the jewish geneologies group. my knowlage in the computer is very week' and hrd to work with my left hand' i have a serius angery from the 1967 war but i do whant to become a member and to make an interesting chart of my family for the coming generation!!!
i got a massage from the Mormons inYuta' that they have information' but as you understand' i appritiate what they offered but still they are not my people and i m not sure what they whant/so please' halp me to be a member and to reserch the roots of my family.
my mother comes from Pinsk Beloruss' her name is Haya Sima Serchuq' her parenta are: Sander Alexander' mother was Bella or Belka and the second name was Eisenberg or Greenberg . My father was born in Wansen near Breslau to the father named Wilhelm youngmann who rose in Minken KRISE Olau, his mothe Gretrud Jungmann born Cohn or Kohen
please let me know how much do i need to pay and how to move the money' and what to do for looking for my roots.thank you very much for you atention and hope to have a good comunication with you
Shabat ShalomDori Jungmann' Har-Adar' Habrosh 24, 9083600 972-546-242-961

SAIONZ family in Havertown, Pennsylvania, USA #poland #russia #usa

David Ziants

Some of my paternal ancestors were from the small town of Narewka (Narifka), which was somewhere in between Bielsk and Bialystok, and I found a 1940 ship manifest of what seems to be my family name from this town sailing to Pennsylvania, USA. The name on this manifest is spelled ZAJACZYJ and we see 17 year old Sarah made it over leaving her mother Feiga there and she was joining her brother, Simcha of the same family name. There were very few holocaust survivors from Narewka, so it would be great if Feige managed to survive. I know about the Narewka KehillaLinks page run by my cousin (through my paternal grandmother), but there is know mention of landsman who immigrated to that part of the USA.

Do not know whether Sarah married, thus she probably would not be under this family name but her husbands. In any case I searched Jewishgen database and found SAIONZ family in Havertown there (many seemed to have died on 9th Av - known to be a sad day in the Jewish calendar  - but most of us don't necessarily die on that day so either there was a specific tragedy in that community on that date or the date was written because it is sad???)

In any case, I would very much like to make contact with either relatives of family from there, and also with anyone active in the community who is able to look up archives etc. Is there anyone here, able to help with contacts?


David Ziants

Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel

Etymology of the Rudman surname #names

BJ Rudman

My great grandfather Zalman Rudman emigrated from Zaslav in what is now Ukraine in 1894. I would like to know the etymology of the Rudman surname. I believe he pronounced it “Roodman”. I have consulted “A Dictionary of Jewish Surnames from the Russian Empire” by Alexander Beider but did not find it very helpful. Any information or suggestions would be very much appreciated.
BJ Rudman

Re: Yizkor Book Report for April 2021 #yizkorbooks #JewishGenUpdates

David Harrison

Is there is a kind UK member of this discussion group who has a PayPal account, which I do not have and which seems to be required rather than a normal bank card?  I would dearly like to purchase a copy of this book because my grandfather left Kalisz before 1896 (when my father was born in Berlin in that year).  I understand that his mother and the rest of the family stayed behind and this book might help my further searches by giving me some of their given names.  If there is such a member, can they please privately email me and then we can agree a payment system. 

 Yours hopefully

David Harrison, Birmingham, England


New Yizkor Books in Print

I am pleased to report that the Yizkor Book in Print Project had an extremely productive month with three new books becoming available:



Re: Posting to an online group in Israel #israel

Myra Fournier

Maybe you could start a JewishGen Israel SIG.

Myra Fournier
Bedford, MA

Kishinev Passport translation from Russian to English #translation


I've posted the passport records in Russian for our great great grandfather  for which we request a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...
Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.
Thank you very much.
dalya danish for the Loupa descendants

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