Re: route from Cherkassy, Ukraine to Manchester, England #general

Harry Boonin

We, the DAVIDOVSKY family, are related to the Zolotorow family in Philadelphia; but I do not know the connection. The oldest family member we have knowledge of is Louis ZOLOTOROW, born August 15, 1875. He lived in Elizavetgrad and came to Philadelphia in 1898. The Davidovskys, Chaim BRONOVSKI, & Esther KUTCHER Nelkin, all from Elizavetgrad, noted on their manifest, that they were coming to join Louis ZOLOTOROW, a bookbinder in Philadelphia. From 1905 to 1936 the large ZOLOTOROW family lived at 705 Brown Street. They had a player piano in their living room.
(The only thing the DAVIDOVSKYS remember today about the ZOLOTOROWS is that player piano.)

Harry D. Boonin
Warrington, PA

Re: Translation of birth register #romania #austria-czech #translation

Jeremy Pacht

Sorry, hopefully the new attachment is more legible.
Jeremy Pacht
Wecker, Luxembourg

Re: Trying to understand conflicting information on the Yad Vashem Website #holocaust

Deborah Wiener

Hi there, did you find something in the list of  names that are filled out at yad Vashem? Sometimes that information is quite inaccurate as it might be filled out by a well-meaning person who doesn’t have their facts straight. If it’s via that, can you contact the informer and try to ascertain how/what they knew?

Good luck.


Melbourne Australia






search for Dr. Hugo LAEMMLE #germany #general

Hansmartin Unger

Dr.Dr.Laemmle has been a Jewish illusionist. he may lived mor or less in Munich but could not find him in an addressbook.
He later ha a business for the sale of linen cloth

Hansmartin Unger

Re: Trying to understand conflicting information on the Yad Vashem Website #holocaust


First of all check the source for the fact they perished in Auschwitz. The museum in Auschwitz has a list (far of being complete) of people that were in the camp. Pinkas Hanitzolim is a very reliable source, if they appear there, they should appear in others list from the post-war era in Poland or Arolsen archives. Sometime simple search in Google helps.

Re: Please help decipher German and Hebrew #translation

David Lewin

Can you t4ell me the Yiddish as you read it?  I am fluent in Hebrew.  My Email client (Eudora) has NO Hebrew
David Lewin

At 09:07 02/10/2021, ramot418@... wrote:
The "Hebrew" is actually Yiddish - a language which I don't know well enough to translate.

Steve Goldberg
Jerusalem, Israel

Re: Please help decipher German and Hebrew #translation


The "Hebrew" is actually Yiddish - a language which I don't know well enough to translate.

Steve Goldberg
Jerusalem, Israel

BMD civil registration in Galicia & Poland, FHL lookups #poland #records #galicia #ukraine

Family and DNA

Hello all. I've read here & in other genealogy groups that people often didn't declare birth/marriage/divorce/death with the civil government in Galicia & Poland etc. because the pricing was prohibitive, so all info was registered only religiously. Something like a marriage might be registered well afterwards for a paperwork reason -- impending illness/emigration for instance, explaining why I've see marriages of people in their 60s (who had kids in their 20s). And this is why birth records will say that a child is "illegitimate" because parents not civilly married. 

I have a few questions about this.

  • What was the cost of such a registration in Galicia & Congress Poland? 
  • Was it the same situation in "Russia"/Ukraine?
  • How did these costs compare to people's "net wealth" (or whatever you wanna call it)?
I found the 1880 birth in Krakow of a cousin's husband on JRI-Poland & after I got lost looking on the new Polish site, I tried familysearch, using the film # listed on JRIP. The film wasn't available for me to page through at home, so I requested the record via the new FHL lookup service. I got back not just a copy of the page but also a close-up (both JPGs) as well as a complete word-for-word translation (Word doc), amazing!!

In the nice explanatory notes after the translation it says "his parents were married only religiously, in a synagogue, not in the civil records office. The custom to avoid taxes when having many children." That last sentence surprised me -- after all, future kid births has nothing to do with marriage registration, so that's obviously wrong. But I assume this was just confused with the question of birth registration costs -- was it almost impossible in the first place (even for just one kid), or was it just super expensive?

I want to send a response thanking the service but also correcting this comment, but first i need to edumacate myself!


Juliana Berland (France)


Re: Travel from Palestine early 1900s #general

Rose Feldman

From the little I have been able to find is that people traveling to the US did it in two stages.  There were ships that traveled around the Mediterranean and people traveled from Palestine to a port that was also visited by ships that sailed to the US.  I have not seen any lists of people leaving Palestine. Even during the British Mandate, we have yet to find lists of people leaving. 
Many of the companies that owned these ships no longer exist.  If you know the name of the company try looking for their archive. If you find it I would appreciate your letting me know.

Rose Feldman
Winner of 2017 IAJGS Award for Volunteer of the Year
Israel Genealogy Research Association
Help us index more records at

Keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general and Jewish and Israeli roots in particular with

Rose Feldman
Israel Genealogy Research Association
Winner of 2017 IAJGS Award for Volunteer of the Year

Death Dates Of Great Grandparents In Wysokie Mazowieckie Poland #poland


I'm trying to locate when my great grandparents Chain-Berek and Esther-Golda (Weinberg) BOBER passed away in Wysokie Mazowieckie, Poland which was before 1929. The JRI-Poland website for Wysokie Mazowieckie lists a Sorka and Aron BOBR from the 1840's who may be related since their father is listed as "Berek". Besides BOBR I tried the alternate surnames BOBAR, BUMBAR, and BUBAR in the JRI-Poland database but I still ran into a brick wall. Although there's no tombstones in the old Wysokie Mazowieckie Jewish Cemetery I wonder if the records exist from the cemetery? I also wonder if the records of the Wysokie Mazowieckie synagogue exist? 

Jerald A. Rothstein

Re: Need help identifying my maternal grandfather #dna


Richard A. Di Lorenzo

This made my body tremble .. And I feel a connection so strong but so strong in all this, that I could not explain it by this means .. I am willing to help you. I am new to this, but I have a lot of time to surf the networks, having an information base on the matter.
You can talk to me at my email if you wish. Meserich@...

Re: route from Cherkassy, Ukraine to Manchester, England #general

Ellen Slotoroff Zyroff

My father's first cousin told me that her mother told her that she (the mother, Chaike) and her younger brother (Ilya Anshul), with ship tickets/or perhaps vouchers paid for in the U.S. by their older sister (my grandmother), who was already settled for a good number of years in NJ, walked from Ukraine across Europe by night, until they reached Le Havre, the port from which their ship left on its route to the U.S. The reason (or perhaps one reason) they did it this way (also they, too, were very poor), according to my dad's cousin is that her mom and/or uncle feared danger en route by foot, since Chaike was a beautiful red-head young woman.

I've read that those who walked the long distances on their way out of Europe were known as "Fussgehers."

Ellen Slotoroff Zyroff

Searching: ZOLOTAROV; SLOTOROFF (Ukraine); LEVINE (Ukraine); ROTH/ROT/RUT (Bessarabia); PEISTERMAN (Bessarabia); ZYRO (Poland and Galicia); TAU?(Galicia);TESLER (Volynia) LIMON (Volynia); KRANTZ (Ukraine); BRAFMAN (Poland); EICHEN (Poland)

On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 09:11:24 AM PDT, <estherahr@...> wrote:

 I am interested in knowing what route my grandmother's family took when they went from Cherkassy, Ukraine to Manchester, England in the end of the 19-beginning of the 20
]century. They did not have too much money and lived in a poor nieghborhood in Manchester Thank you, ESTHER

Esther (Herschamn) Rechtschafner

ZOLOTOROV (Chernigov, Ukraine; Kiev, Ukraine);
SLOTOROFF (Kiev, Ukraine)
LEVINE (Ukraine and Minsk, Belarus);
GLUSKIN (Ukraine)
LIMON (Berestechko, Volynia, Ukraine)
TESLER (Horochiv, Volynia, Ukraine)
ZYRO (Zabolativ, Ukraine) 
TAU (Zalolativ, Ukraine)
ROTH / ROT (Ataki, Bessarabia, Moldova)
BLAUSTEIN (Chernigov, Ukraine or Minsk, Belarus)

(US) Supreme Court Agrees to Hear Museum Win in Nazi-Plundered Art #announcements #holocaust

Herbert Lazerow

   The Supreme Court will not directly decide the issue of return of the painting.  The grant of certiorari is to decide whether a trial court, in a case where jurisdiction is based on the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, should use the federal choice of law rule, which in this case chose Spanish law, or the choice of law rule for the state in which the court sits, which in this case would be the California rule.  If the court choses the federal rule, the case is over.  If the court chooses the California rule, the case goes back to the trial court to decide how the California choice of law rule would be applied. It might decide that the California choice of law rule would also select Spanish law, or it might decide that the California choice of law rule selects California law.
Herbert Lazerow
Professor of Law, University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110
Author: Mastering Art Law (Carolina Academic Press, 2d ed. 2020)

Re: route from Cherkassy, Ukraine to Manchester, England #general


My great grandmother, 2 great uncles and a cousin left Kaminetz Podolsk (Ukraine) in 1913.  They travelled by horse and cart over the nearby border into Austria.  They then went by train in a goods type wagon to Vienna.  From Vienna they travelled to Bremen and from there by boat to London.  From London they caught a train to Manchester to be reunited with with my grandfather and another great uncle who had made the journey a few years previously.  

Ruth Bloomfield

Need help identifying my maternal grandfather #dna

Richard A. Di Lorenzo


I am looking to hire someone to help me find out just who my maternal grandfather was. Here’s a summary:


My sisters and I are in our 70s; and, based on DNA analysis, we are each about 50% Jewish.  Until we were in our 20s we thought we were were 100% Italian. That’s when our mother learned, and notified us, that she had been given away as an infant/baby! A Mrs. Pinto took her in and raised her as a daughter - on the upper east side of Manhattan - this would be 1915. Mrs. Pinto already had a daughter, Theresa, 10. 


Theresa kept a few of the letters that my mother’s birth guardians independently sent to Mrs. Pinto - asking about my mother’s welfare. Based on these letters, which I now possess, and a brief oral history that Theresa ultimately provided to her own daughter Geri: my mother’s birth guardians were a Jewish woman named Anna and an Italian immigrant named Raffaele Beneduce. 


Based on DNA analysis, my father’s grand-niece has no Jewish blood, so I believe my father had no Jewish blood. Thus, my mother must have been 100% Jewish, meaning both of her birth parents were 100% Jewish. I am quite confident Anna was 100% Jewish; two of my 100% Jewish second cousins are her grandnephews, but they have very little info about her.


And, based on DNA analysis, Raffaele’s grand nephew has no Jewish blood, so I believe Raffaele had no Jewish blood.  My conclusion is that Raffaele could not have been my mother’s birth father.


I need help in finding out who my maternal grandfather was. Did he have other children? Where, when, how did he die? Where is he buried?  I would also like to answer the same questions about my maternal grandmother Anna. I have reason to believe Anna, besides NYC, lived briefly in Akron, Ohio; and in Tuxedo, NY; and in Philadelphia; but that she was born in Minsk, Russia.


In I have many many Jewish Matches.  In I have more than 16,000 Jewish Matches! But I don’t know how to “mine the gold” - to figure out who my maternal grandfather was. Who can help me? I am willing to pay. I now reside in Beavercreek, Ohio and Naples, FL.


Richard A. Di Lorenzo

Re: Seattle Passenger List #general

Michele Lock

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 02:49 PM, Trudy Barch wrote:

This is one of the more interesting passenger ship lists I've ever seen.

The first page is here:

I think the 'Debarred quota (July 31, 1923) might refer to the immigration quotas that had gone into effect, that reduced the number of immigrants from certain countries. Though these weren't as restrictive as those that went into effect after 1924. Next the 'something on appeal' to me looks like 'adm on appeal' or admitted on appeal, so the family must have appealed the first decision and been allowed to enter the US. The later dates might have something to do with applying for citizenship, though I'm not certain.

You can try flipping through the images of the ship list pages, backwards to the first sheet and forward to the last page, to see if there is any other information about this family.

If you go to the second page of this ship list (next image), it says the family is going to Clara's father in Chicago. In column 18, it asks if she's ever been in the US before, and it says yes, then it's typed the year 1917 (though possibly 1905 is written above). 

In the 1930 census, Clara says in column 22 that she immigrated in the year 1905 to the US. The two children born in Japan say they immigrated to the US in 1924.

Did you know that Clara had been in the US before 1923? 

Have you tried looking for an arrival for Clara and her father around 1905 (+/- 3 years or so)? Or looked for the 1910 and 1920 census records for her father in Chicago, to see what those say?

The other records you can look for are naturalization papers for the two children. Those might shed light on when they entered the US.

Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus

(US) Supreme Court Agrees to Hear Museum Win in Nazi-Plundered Art #announcements #holocaust

Jan Meisels Allen


I have been advised that I posted the incorrect Pissarro painting to my original posting. The painting above is the correct Rue Saint-Honoré in the Afternoon. Effect of Rain - Pissarro, Camille. Museo Nacional Thyssen-Bornemisza.

The New York Times article originally mentioned is no longer posted. Instead for more information see:


Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Pubic Records Access Monitoring Committee

From: Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:17 AM
To: IAJGS Leadership Forum <leadership@...>
Subject: (US) Supreme Court Agrees to Hear Museum Win in Nazi-Plundered Art





The United States Supreme Court has agreed to review a Ninth Circuit decision that affirmed a lower court’s judgement that a Spanish Museum did not break that country’s laws by acquiring a Camille Pissarro painting stolen by the Nazis.  The case was originally posted about  to this forum in August 2020.


The petition may be read at:


The painting is, "La Rue St. Honoré, effet de Soleil, Après-Midi, 1898,” (Rue Saint-Honoré, Afternoon, Rain Effect,) an oil-on-canvas work of a rain-swept Paris street that Pissarro painted as he gazed at the scene from his hotel window.


Lilly Cassirer’s father-in-law bought it directly from Pissarro’s art dealer and left it to her and her husband when he died. In 1939, she traded it to the Nazis in exchange for exit visas for herself, her husband and her grandson, who eventually settled in the U.S. Her great-grandson, David Cassirer of San Diego, has continued the litigation since his father's death.


Neither Cassirer's heirs nor Spain's Thyssen-Bornemisza Museum dispute the painting's early history.


What's at issue all these years later is whether Baron Hans Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza made any serious effort to determine the painting was looted art when he acquired it from a New York gallery owner for $275,000 in 1976.  Also in question is whether the Spanish curators did their due diligence in tracing its provenance when a Spanish nonprofit foundation acquired it and hundreds of other paintings from the baron's collection in 1992 and created the Madrid museum that bears his name.


Lilly Cassirer’s heirs say she spent years trying to recover the painting before concluding it was lost and accepting $13,000 in reparations from the German government in 1958.


It wasn’t until 1999 that her grandson, Claude, who had vividly recalled seeing it hanging in the family's German home, discovered it in the Madrid museum. After Spain refused to hand it over, he sued.

To read more see:



Jan Meisels Allen

Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Jews and hot air ballooning #general

Jonathan Myers

Appreciate this info from everyone. Really interesting about Albert Samama-Chikly and the more recent Firefly Balloons. Once I can figure out how to use Jewish Gen to best effect I may well follow up individually. I'm also not an expert at finding census or similar material - still learning. So if anyone knows where I can find - or might even be able to provide - a historical document that shows the Weinlings (or just Aloys Casamir Frederick Weinling) were Jewish, I'd be grateful.
Jonathan Myers

Travel from Palestine early 1900s #general

Carol Reisman

My grandfather left Palestine around 1916 and eventually sailed to the US from Cherbourg France.
What is the most likely route he could have taken to reach Europe, and do any passenger records exist for passengers leaving from Yaffo or other port in the early 1900s.

In a newspaper clipping I have from Havatzelet late 1890’s another relative sailed from Yaffo to Alexandria Egypt. Any possible records exist from that time?

Thank you
Carol Reisman

Re: 1897 All Empire Russian Census #russia


There is an excellent article about "The 1st National Census of the Russian Empire" by Thomas Edlund in the Fall/Winter 1999 Issue of the FEEFHS Journal (Federation of Eastern European Family History Societies).
The bottom line is that the focus of the census was to collect statistics.  After the statistics were collected, many returns were destroyed, but not all of the returns. Twenty years ago, returns were being found in all sorts of local archives.

When Howard Margol and I worked on the remaining 1897 All Russia Census for Lithuania, we were told that about 10% of the records were preserved for future statistical analysis.  All of those records have been transliterated, indexed, and entered into the Lithuanian databases on JewishGen.  

Previous posters have mentioned work in other areas of the former Russian Empire.  The best thing to do is figure out the likely places that your family came from, then research those places to see what records are available.

Peggy Mosinger Freedman

7441 - 7460 of 669642