Hi everyone –

 

Over the last 10 years I have been researching my father's family, together with other family members.  We have successfully tracked down all the descendants of my great, great grandfather and their spouses – both living and deceased – and have located the graves of (almost) all the deceased.  However, we have yet to discover what happened to my great, great grandfather and where he is buried.  Here we hit a classic 'brick wall' and would appreciate any help we can get to track him down.

 

Here are the facts we know about him:

1.      His name is Nissen Sagan, son of Wulf, from the town of Veliuona (Velon) in the Kaunas (Kovno) area of Lithuania.

2.      He left the port of Hamburg, Germany, on February 25, 1894 aboard the ship S.S. Scandia bound for NYC, with his declared destination being Montreal, Canada.

3.      He traveled with his son, Wulf Goldberg (my great grandfather) and his granddaughter Gittel (Esther Bella) Goldberg (my great aunt, and Wulf's daughter), and they all landed at Ellis Island on March 21, 1894. All the above is well documented both in the Ellis Island and Hamburg port documents.

4.      Wulf and Esther Bella both arrived in Montreal shortly thereafter, where they made their new home.  Esther Bella was married 5 years later in Montreal, raised her family there and both she and her father Wulf are buried in Montreal cemeteries.

5.      Nissen's other 2 children, Sarah and Moses, had already settled in Montreal (together with their respective families) during the six years prior to his arrival at Ellis Island.

6.      However, we couldn't find any documentation of what happened to Nissen Sagan after he landed at Ellis Island – a complete 'brick wall'.  We found absolutely no evidence of him ever being in Montreal – both living or deceased.  We scoured all cemeteries in the Montreal area at the time and enlisted the help of the JGS of Montreal as well – absolutely nothing. We also checked Jewish cemeteries on the way from NYC to Montreal (upper NY state).

7.      We know that he had passed away by June 1895 at the latest, since a grandson of his (Moses' son) was born that month in Montreal and named after him. 

So….what happened to him?

I can think of only 2 possibilities – assuming he never made it to Montreal:

(a)   He died shortly after his arrival in NYC – the most likely scenario being he was quarantined for whatever reason.  Unfortunately, we couldn't find any on-line information of those who died in quarantine at that time.

(b)   He returned to Europe.  He had left his wife and daughter-in-law (Wulf's wife) behind together with some other grandchildren (Wulf's children).  However, all – except his wife – arrived in Montreal (via Boston) in December 1894. We have no evidence of his wife ever having traveled from Europe to North America.  However, it makes no sense to us that he would travel all the way to NYC/Montreal and then return almost immediately to Europe since it is obvious that his entire family planned to resettle in Canada.

Can anyone help us solve this mystery?

Thanks.

Steve Goldberg

Jerusalem, Israel (formerly from Montreal)

 

She lives in Ohio and or Florida, so there is no problem with DNA testing for her.  Yes the mamzer possibility is why the Chassidic (Haredi) Rabbinate has forbidden DNA testing for the purpose of finding relatives in Israel - but secular Jews find ways around it.

--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com

We are very sorry to hear about the passing of Jill Anderson,
President of LitvakSIG.

Jill was a key figure in the partnership established between LitvakSIG
and MyHeritage.

We extend our sympathy to her family, friends and all LitvakSIG members.

In the name of the entire MyHeritage team
Daniel Horowitz
Expert genealogist

Do you have Hebrew on her tombstone?  A Ketuba?  Either of these would give her Hebrew/Yiddish name as opposed to other possibilities (of which there are many).

--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com

CORRECTION - Minna/Minnie Rose Glickman born 1896 Vilna, Lithuania * died 1987 Boston, MA USA
~ Carla Ashton-Cohen

In 1900 my grandfather, Albert Isaacs,  travelled from  Manchester, UK,  to Kimberley to make his fortune in the diamond mines.  Unfortunately that didn't happen. He stayed with his Aunt and Uncle, as his Uncle was a manager of one of the mines.    A family diary describes his 2 month stay in Africa.  Bad health meant that he had to search for another job, and at some stage he went to Aliway North to work for Mr. Levy, a Jewish shop owner,  before  returning to Manchester more or less penniless.   I have more details from the diary if anyone is interested.  
Kathryn Berman

Jewish Genealogical Society NY Webinar
Wednesday Oct. 6, 2021 at 7 p.m. EDT

I read the first entry a Krämmer (misspelling of Krämer) = shopkeeper, owner of a small store selling all sorts of things, not necessary food;
the second entry is Schänker, the owner of a pub.
Here is the scan in better resolution:


--
Andreas Schwab, Montreal, Canada
MODERATOR NOTE: This is in response to a previous question regarding an occupation

Even if you attended my IAJS presentation, there is a lot new for you on October 10.
You can now search the following:            
      901 individual Holocaust Collections from 659 Towns!

The Holocaust Collection includes both survivor and victim name lists.

Also different from the IAJGS lecture, there are 37 new slides with new info and images.

To request a Zoom link, please complete this short form: which can also be found on the Meetings webpage.

Members of JGSSN can attend for free.  Non-members can pay $5.00 on the Donate webpage and complete the short form.

 

Miriam Weiner

Secaucus, NJ

Thanks to all who have responded.  Some of you have pointed out the photos I uploaded are scarcely legible.  I haven‘t been able to figure out the source of the problem yet, I think it may have something to do with a recent update on my computer.

I have received two decipherments with translation from individuals who contacted me directly — I was able to send them a high resolution pic by email — and since the two individuals gave me precisely the same information I think my question can be regarded as resolved.

Thanks again for your help!
--
Jeremy Pacht
Wecker, Luxembourg
Jeremy.pacht@...

Thank you for notifying us Carol.  Many of us have worked alongside Jill over the years and this is very sad news.
May her memory be for a blessing.
Joyaa ANTARES
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

the royal government has received a petition by the Polish Jewish glazier Chest Itzig, to get permission to work as a glazier journeyman (not sure how it is called in English - he has not yet passed an examination to become a master glazier).
Strasburg (today Brodnica in Poland, then a county administration in West Prussia, including for the town of Gollub, today Golub), 16 may 1834

the yiddish note is probably the answer - 'von die Regierung erlap...' permitted by the government

Reuven Mohr
Israel

At 09:43 30/09/2021, Jeremy Pacht wrote:

Hello,

I am writing to ask if anyone can translate for me the occupation of Israel PACHT that is stated on the birth record of his daughter Rachel, on the attached page from the birth register.   Rachel's entry is the first on the page.

I would also greatly appreciate a translation of the father's occupation for the second entry on the page (pertaining to Abraham PISTINER, father of Chana Feige), since this is the occupation given for Israel PECHT on earlier birth records in the same register.  The word reoccurs in the third entry from the bottom of the page, as the occupation of Sara’s father Abraham LÖF.

In case this helps with deciphering, the records are in German and from the Kimpolung 1859-1877 birth register.  Kimpolung (now Campulung Moldovenesc, Romania) was a village in the mountainous south western part of the Austrian crown land known as the Bukovina.

Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

Jeremy PACHT
Wecker, Luxembourg
_._,_._,_

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I read the record as
Chaskel    Israel Pachl    Ester Schieba    Rachel Tikin  

David Lewin
London

Search & Unite attempt to help locate people who, despite the passage of so many years since World War II, may still exist "out there".
We also assist in the process of re-possession of property in the Czech Republic and Israel.
See our Web pages at https://remember.org/unite/

Thanks for the helpful info about the FHL lookup service!

How did these costs compare to people's "net wealth" (or whatever you wanna call it)?

Most of our ancestors in Galicia and the Pale of Settlement were so poor that I would wanna call it abject poverty.  Some of them barely had enough money to feed their children let alone pay for any regisration....



--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.

The 10groschen postage stamp on the card was issued in 1929.


Tom Beer
Melbourne, Australia