Date   

Kravitz surname #belarus

David Kravitz <dkravitz@...>
 

I have received several requests >from other users about my background to
see if it matches with theirs. My family tree is registered with Dorot in
Tel Aviv (do they have an email address?), the FamilyTreeMaker and Jewishgen.

My greatgrandfather, Philip Kravitz, emigrated to England in 1891 with all
his family, >from Sislewich in Belarus, close to Minsk. I assume that both
his father, Abraham, and his grandfather, Emmanuel, were dead. I have a
complete family tree >from Philip downwards.

Philip had a sister, Bella Kravetz, who married Jacob Halprin and they had
three sons and two daughters. By 1934 Jacob had died and one son, Benjamin,
lived in London, England. Bella and her other children still lived in
Warsaw. At some time later, some or all had emigrated to the USA. Ben, born
1871, used to claim a relationship to Danny Kaye and had a picture of a
"Dina" in his apartment whom he called his niece. Hence my recent request
to locate Dina Kaye.

Ben had three daughters and one Edith (Ida) married Henry Lister and lived
in Enfield, Middlesex, England. They had a daughter called Josephine. Edith
was born around 1910. I have not been able to trace them at all and wonder
if they have emigrated.

If any of this matches any other genealogists, I would be grateful if they
made contact.

David Kravitz


Belarus SIG #Belarus Kravitz surname #belarus

David Kravitz <dkravitz@...>
 

I have received several requests >from other users about my background to
see if it matches with theirs. My family tree is registered with Dorot in
Tel Aviv (do they have an email address?), the FamilyTreeMaker and Jewishgen.

My greatgrandfather, Philip Kravitz, emigrated to England in 1891 with all
his family, >from Sislewich in Belarus, close to Minsk. I assume that both
his father, Abraham, and his grandfather, Emmanuel, were dead. I have a
complete family tree >from Philip downwards.

Philip had a sister, Bella Kravetz, who married Jacob Halprin and they had
three sons and two daughters. By 1934 Jacob had died and one son, Benjamin,
lived in London, England. Bella and her other children still lived in
Warsaw. At some time later, some or all had emigrated to the USA. Ben, born
1871, used to claim a relationship to Danny Kaye and had a picture of a
"Dina" in his apartment whom he called his niece. Hence my recent request
to locate Dina Kaye.

Ben had three daughters and one Edith (Ida) married Henry Lister and lived
in Enfield, Middlesex, England. They had a daughter called Josephine. Edith
was born around 1910. I have not been able to trace them at all and wonder
if they have emigrated.

If any of this matches any other genealogists, I would be grateful if they
made contact.

David Kravitz


Re: Minsk in Poland? #belarus

Corin Goodwin <corin@...>
 

Larry Gaum wrote:

Barbara Khait wrote:
My grandfather, born in Minsk Gubernia ca. 1869, referred
to his prior citizenship on his naturalization papers as "Polish."
If your grandfather was born in 1869, Minsk Guberniya was
under Russian Tzarist control. He was Russian, despite the
information he gave for his naturalization papers.The final
partition of Poland took place in 1795, and up until 1921,
Poland ceased to exist.
I believe many residents (and others) called it "Russian Poland", as did
my ancestors.

//Corin Barsily Goodwin
Cupertino, CA USA

BARSILA/BARZILY/BARZILOV -- Russia; Scotland; NYC
BASOK/BARSACH -- Orsha (Mogilev), Belarus; Scotland; NYC; Rhode Island
BRAUN -- Hungary; NYC ...WEISS -- Hungary; NYC; Middlesex, NJ
DU BOFF/MISTROFF -- Gorodische (Baronovich), Belarus; NYC & Long Island
KANEFSKY and RIVKIN -- Elizabetgrod, Ukraine; NYC
SIGAAR -- Amsterdam ...VAN SANTEN -- Amsterdam; NYC


Belarus SIG #Belarus Re: Minsk in Poland? #belarus

Corin Goodwin <corin@...>
 

Larry Gaum wrote:

Barbara Khait wrote:
My grandfather, born in Minsk Gubernia ca. 1869, referred
to his prior citizenship on his naturalization papers as "Polish."
If your grandfather was born in 1869, Minsk Guberniya was
under Russian Tzarist control. He was Russian, despite the
information he gave for his naturalization papers.The final
partition of Poland took place in 1795, and up until 1921,
Poland ceased to exist.
I believe many residents (and others) called it "Russian Poland", as did
my ancestors.

//Corin Barsily Goodwin
Cupertino, CA USA

BARSILA/BARZILY/BARZILOV -- Russia; Scotland; NYC
BASOK/BARSACH -- Orsha (Mogilev), Belarus; Scotland; NYC; Rhode Island
BRAUN -- Hungary; NYC ...WEISS -- Hungary; NYC; Middlesex, NJ
DU BOFF/MISTROFF -- Gorodische (Baronovich), Belarus; NYC & Long Island
KANEFSKY and RIVKIN -- Elizabetgrod, Ukraine; NYC
SIGAAR -- Amsterdam ...VAN SANTEN -- Amsterdam; NYC


Re: A Threatening Letter, A reasonable compromise #general

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

A similar discussion was held in this forum when the Family Tree
of The Jewish People was first announced. Specifically related
to issues of privacy of people still alive, the discussion
brought out several points, not the least of which "You can't
re-write history"

That someone was the child of a named person, grew up and
married, and had their own family.. cannot be changed. It is a
fact. But given the sensitivity of some people about their
ages, JewishGen came up with what we all believe is a
reasonable compromise.

For people born within the last 100 years where no death date is
shown, dates of birth and marriage would be removed. No message
lines which would show source data, social security numbers,
phone numbers and street address would be included.

Thus, we maintained the integrity of family relationships
without invasion of privacy. This might be a reasonable
solution to the problem being discussed. As genealogists what
we are really interested in is family connections....so why not
just leave it at that and not upset anyone by reporting their
personal data which has no bearing on the genealogy of the
family in the first place?

Carol Skydell
Chilmark MA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re: A Threatening Letter, A reasonable compromise #general

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

A similar discussion was held in this forum when the Family Tree
of The Jewish People was first announced. Specifically related
to issues of privacy of people still alive, the discussion
brought out several points, not the least of which "You can't
re-write history"

That someone was the child of a named person, grew up and
married, and had their own family.. cannot be changed. It is a
fact. But given the sensitivity of some people about their
ages, JewishGen came up with what we all believe is a
reasonable compromise.

For people born within the last 100 years where no death date is
shown, dates of birth and marriage would be removed. No message
lines which would show source data, social security numbers,
phone numbers and street address would be included.

Thus, we maintained the integrity of family relationships
without invasion of privacy. This might be a reasonable
solution to the problem being discussed. As genealogists what
we are really interested in is family connections....so why not
just leave it at that and not upset anyone by reporting their
personal data which has no bearing on the genealogy of the
family in the first place?

Carol Skydell
Chilmark MA


Re: A Threatening Letter #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

I suggest that the family tree include name,
birthday, and city. I delete ex-spouses'
names if people ask me to. Other than
that, only one name has been formally
hidded >from the tree: that of a murderer
now in jail.

It is, agree, quite a dilemma for us
family-tree writers!

Dan Kazez


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A Threatening Letter #general

Daniel Kazez <dkazez@...>
 

I suggest that the family tree include name,
birthday, and city. I delete ex-spouses'
names if people ask me to. Other than
that, only one name has been formally
hidded >from the tree: that of a murderer
now in jail.

It is, agree, quite a dilemma for us
family-tree writers!

Dan Kazez


Re: h-sig digest: November 07, 1998 #hungary

Michael Hillinger <mhilling@...>
 

Subject: German names of Slovakia
From: melody gross <melody@gimby.save-net.co.il>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 10:16:16 +0200
X-Message-Number: 1



And--what are Uniats, a religion?
Uniats (Uniates) aka Greek Catholics aka Eastern Rite Catholics are
Catholics who follow (Christian) Orthodox ritual and practices, but
acknowledge the authority of the Pope. In pre WWI Hungary, most Ruthenes
(Ukrainians) were Uniates, as were some Slovaks (mostly in Saros & Zemplen
counties), some Romanians (mostly in Northern Transylvania), and some
Magyars. Historically, the Uniate movement (which also has adherents in
Eastern Galicia) date >from the Catholic Counter-Reformation of the 16th &
17th centuries.

The pre WWI counties with especially large Jewish populations (Bereg, Ung &
Maramaros) also had large Uniate populations, mostly Ruthene.
Michael G. Hillinger
mhilling@shore.net


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: h-sig digest: November 07, 1998 #hungary

Michael Hillinger <mhilling@...>
 

Subject: German names of Slovakia
From: melody gross <melody@gimby.save-net.co.il>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 10:16:16 +0200
X-Message-Number: 1



And--what are Uniats, a religion?
Uniats (Uniates) aka Greek Catholics aka Eastern Rite Catholics are
Catholics who follow (Christian) Orthodox ritual and practices, but
acknowledge the authority of the Pope. In pre WWI Hungary, most Ruthenes
(Ukrainians) were Uniates, as were some Slovaks (mostly in Saros & Zemplen
counties), some Romanians (mostly in Northern Transylvania), and some
Magyars. Historically, the Uniate movement (which also has adherents in
Eastern Galicia) date >from the Catholic Counter-Reformation of the 16th &
17th centuries.

The pre WWI counties with especially large Jewish populations (Bereg, Ung &
Maramaros) also had large Uniate populations, mostly Ruthene.
Michael G. Hillinger
mhilling@shore.net


Re: searching Hollender family #hungary

Lebn@...
 

Hi,
I know nothing about the family Hollander, but go to this site:
http://www.psk.co.at/report/index.html

It is the list of names for dormant accounts in Vienna. Go to "List of dormant
accounts,click it, go to alphabet "H", click it and scroll until you see
Hollander. There are two accounts with the Hungarian name "DEZSO" bet this was
a Hungarian Hollander living in Vienna or Hungary and depositing to this
account.
Eleanor Bien


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: searching Hollender family #hungary

Lebn@...
 

Hi,
I know nothing about the family Hollander, but go to this site:
http://www.psk.co.at/report/index.html

It is the list of names for dormant accounts in Vienna. Go to "List of dormant
accounts,click it, go to alphabet "H", click it and scroll until you see
Hollander. There are two accounts with the Hungarian name "DEZSO" bet this was
a Hungarian Hollander living in Vienna or Hungary and depositing to this
account.
Eleanor Bien


SIG mailing lists now archived #hungary

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

Hello H-SIG

All messages posted to this list since July 1998 are now being
archived and are searchable online. >from JewishGen's homepage
http://www.jewishgen.org, click on Databases and then select
The JewishGen SIG Lists message Archive - 1998

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations


Hungary SIG #Hungary SIG mailing lists now archived #hungary

Carol Skydell <skydell@...>
 

Hello H-SIG

All messages posted to this list since July 1998 are now being
archived and are searchable online. >from JewishGen's homepage
http://www.jewishgen.org, click on Databases and then select
The JewishGen SIG Lists message Archive - 1998

Carol Skydell
JewishGen Operations


Re: A Threatening Letter #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

I think I would object too if someone broadcast my address, telephone
number, and (in Britain) my National Insurance number, which is also used
by the Inland Revenue. I would not object if the person sending it out had
got my prior permission, preferably in writing. I certainly do not send out
to strangers any information about living people without the latter's
permission.

This is not only because of politeness and etiquette; nor is it a
reflection of the British obsesion with secrecy and privacy ('An
Englishman's home is his castle'); it is also to avoid attracting the
attention of conversionists and Holocaust-revisionists who send you their
material if they get hold of your address.

Harold Pollins

Oxford England

pollins@globalnet.co.uk
Further to Harold's note, in the UK tabloid Press phone numbers have been
printed of individuals with the implication that readers should phone the
individuals who have possibly done something to displease the newspaper.
There are always loonies or sad people who want to phone famous people for
innocent or malign reasons, so that it is fairly reasonable that the famous
person might wish to protect their privacy in this way. For that reason we
have postings in this group asking if we know how to contact this or that
famous actor. Whereas most of the postings are at the other end of the
scale most of the other postings are trying to locate a relative, ancestor
etc. Clearly actor X or actor Y is protecting their privacy. Now if you
were related to a famous actor, would you object if they requested that
their telephone number be withheld.

As to someone's date of birth I doubt that someone could prevent you
publishing this as the writer says this is a matter of public record. No
doubt you only have to give the source which is another publication or
public register and that would end the matter. Clearly the relative might
never speak to you again and might leave you out of their will. Presumably
you don't mind offending people when you decided to produce a family tree!

Clearly someone who makes such a big deal about "sensitive" information is
very sensitive about the information being published. I would have thought
that going over the top in this way would very much draw attention to their
sensitivity. It is clear that rich and powerful men often have more money
than sense. Most of us are not terribly keen on certain things affecting us
but we just have to grin and bear it.

I think that there is another point that the detailed genealogical info
that we are talking about is often used by banks and the such like to check
the bona fides of a customer eg maiden name of mother and other such
information. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that this
information could be used to perpetrate a fraud.

I am glad to say that in my large family that there have been no problems
about the information contained in the family tree.

We produce in the printed document which is circulated within the family:

Full name
Name of spouse
Date of birth
Date of marriage
If appropriate, date of death
Different towns of residence
Names of children

There is little on here that someone could object. I believe that the tree
has been used by children in the family for school projects.

Clearly when more personal information such as address, telephone number is
contained on the tree there is much less that you can do with the tree.
Quite rightly I don't want everyone knowing my address and phone number
even though it is in the phonebook.

Nick


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A Threatening Letter #general

Nick Landau <nick@...>
 

I think I would object too if someone broadcast my address, telephone
number, and (in Britain) my National Insurance number, which is also used
by the Inland Revenue. I would not object if the person sending it out had
got my prior permission, preferably in writing. I certainly do not send out
to strangers any information about living people without the latter's
permission.

This is not only because of politeness and etiquette; nor is it a
reflection of the British obsesion with secrecy and privacy ('An
Englishman's home is his castle'); it is also to avoid attracting the
attention of conversionists and Holocaust-revisionists who send you their
material if they get hold of your address.

Harold Pollins

Oxford England

pollins@globalnet.co.uk
Further to Harold's note, in the UK tabloid Press phone numbers have been
printed of individuals with the implication that readers should phone the
individuals who have possibly done something to displease the newspaper.
There are always loonies or sad people who want to phone famous people for
innocent or malign reasons, so that it is fairly reasonable that the famous
person might wish to protect their privacy in this way. For that reason we
have postings in this group asking if we know how to contact this or that
famous actor. Whereas most of the postings are at the other end of the
scale most of the other postings are trying to locate a relative, ancestor
etc. Clearly actor X or actor Y is protecting their privacy. Now if you
were related to a famous actor, would you object if they requested that
their telephone number be withheld.

As to someone's date of birth I doubt that someone could prevent you
publishing this as the writer says this is a matter of public record. No
doubt you only have to give the source which is another publication or
public register and that would end the matter. Clearly the relative might
never speak to you again and might leave you out of their will. Presumably
you don't mind offending people when you decided to produce a family tree!

Clearly someone who makes such a big deal about "sensitive" information is
very sensitive about the information being published. I would have thought
that going over the top in this way would very much draw attention to their
sensitivity. It is clear that rich and powerful men often have more money
than sense. Most of us are not terribly keen on certain things affecting us
but we just have to grin and bear it.

I think that there is another point that the detailed genealogical info
that we are talking about is often used by banks and the such like to check
the bona fides of a customer eg maiden name of mother and other such
information. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that this
information could be used to perpetrate a fraud.

I am glad to say that in my large family that there have been no problems
about the information contained in the family tree.

We produce in the printed document which is circulated within the family:

Full name
Name of spouse
Date of birth
Date of marriage
If appropriate, date of death
Different towns of residence
Names of children

There is little on here that someone could object. I believe that the tree
has been used by children in the family for school projects.

Clearly when more personal information such as address, telephone number is
contained on the tree there is much less that you can do with the tree.
Quite rightly I don't want everyone knowing my address and phone number
even though it is in the phonebook.

Nick


Re: A Threatening Letter #general

David Kravitz <dkravitz@...>
 

Citizens of the European Community should note the Data Protection Act
1998, effective on the mainland October 1998 and in the UK in 2Q99. It
deals with distribution of information outside the UK as well. The main
changes >from previous Acts is to expand data protection to pieces of paper
as well as computer storage. As a general rule, only distribute a limited
amount of data about a living person such as their place in a family tree.
Even this might need to be registered with the DP registrar. I will keep
you posted.

At 11:35 08/11/98 -0000, Harold Pollins wrote:

<snip>

I think I would object too if someone broadcast my address, telephone
number, and (in Britain) my National Insurance number, which is also used
by the Inland Revenue.
<snip>

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted. We note that Mr Pollins
tried to correct his inclusion of the National Insurance number in the
above referenced post, but the post as quoted had already been released.
Please make sure your posts reflect what you really want to say. We
don't have time to make corrections of this sort routinely. :-)}


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A Threatening Letter #general

David Kravitz <dkravitz@...>
 

Citizens of the European Community should note the Data Protection Act
1998, effective on the mainland October 1998 and in the UK in 2Q99. It
deals with distribution of information outside the UK as well. The main
changes >from previous Acts is to expand data protection to pieces of paper
as well as computer storage. As a general rule, only distribute a limited
amount of data about a living person such as their place in a family tree.
Even this might need to be registered with the DP registrar. I will keep
you posted.

At 11:35 08/11/98 -0000, Harold Pollins wrote:

<snip>

I think I would object too if someone broadcast my address, telephone
number, and (in Britain) my National Insurance number, which is also used
by the Inland Revenue.
<snip>

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted. We note that Mr Pollins
tried to correct his inclusion of the National Insurance number in the
above referenced post, but the post as quoted had already been released.
Please make sure your posts reflect what you really want to say. We
don't have time to make corrections of this sort routinely. :-)}


Re: A Threatening Letter #general

Corin Goodwin <corin@...>
 

Perhaps other genealogists have faced this problem.
I type up family chronologies and relay them to the
family members and to others related to them. This
material includes birth dates, addresses, and tele-
phone numbers of living persons, as well as the so-
cial security numbers of the deceased. My material
in this case was all based on public sources, but a
recipient hit the roof anyway.
<snip>
David,

This has come up in my family as well, but not due to mental illness or
senility or any amount of money. Everyone has their own ideas about what
constitutes privacy, and even when something is a matter of public
record, they may not appreciate seeing it directly in their face or
anyone else's. They are entitled to their opinions, and their feelings
are absolutely valid and worthy of consideration.

I do think you need to find a way to be sensitive to other people's
concerns. Perhaps you can remove the information requested >from your
distribution list -- why not? It won't hurt anyone to remove it, but
apparently it does hurt someone in some way by not removing it. OK, so
it won't be *complete*, but you'll still have the information available
if you need it, and if someone else requests it, then you can send it
privately.

Here's one example >from my family: One of my grandmothers has been
married many times, including twice to the same man and two other times
to men who abusive. She has done a number of things that I know she
regrets or prefers not to discuss. What I have done is included only two
of her marriages -- my grandfather (the only one she had children with)
and her last husband (who was a wonderful man) -- and the rest are noted
elsewhere. I can include them when she passes away if I think it's
necessary, or just keep them in writing for future generations who are
interested. I think that most people have had times in their lives that
they would rather forget, and we can do them the kindness of respecting
that.

As for identifying information such as Social Security numbers and
telephone numbers of living people, I think it makes perfect sense to
request that they not be included if someone finds them upsetting. You
can at least make the effort to forge a compromise. Perhaps, as I said,
if someone wants a phone number, they can contact you directly. In this
age of electronic information and stolen identities, I think people
should have a right to request some level of privacy. This person has
asked you twice to stop doing something that they find upsetting and
intrusive; perhaps you can accommodate them rather than standing on
principle. Isn't one goal of genealogy to bring families together?

//Corin Barsily Goodwin
Cupertino, CA USA

BARSILA/BARZILY/BARZILOV -- Russia; Scotland; NYC
BASOK/BARSACH -- Orsha (Mogilev), Belarus; Scotland; NYC; Rhode Island
BRAUN -- Hungary; NYC ...WEISS -- Hungary; NYC; Middlesex, NJ
DU BOFF/MISTROFF -- Gorodische (Baronovich), Belarus; NYC & Long Island
KANEFSKY and RIVKIN -- Elizabetgrod, Ukraine; NYC
SIGAAR -- Amsterdam ...VAN SANTEN -- Amsterdam; NYC

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: A Threatening Letter #general

Corin Goodwin <corin@...>
 

Perhaps other genealogists have faced this problem.
I type up family chronologies and relay them to the
family members and to others related to them. This
material includes birth dates, addresses, and tele-
phone numbers of living persons, as well as the so-
cial security numbers of the deceased. My material
in this case was all based on public sources, but a
recipient hit the roof anyway.
<snip>
David,

This has come up in my family as well, but not due to mental illness or
senility or any amount of money. Everyone has their own ideas about what
constitutes privacy, and even when something is a matter of public
record, they may not appreciate seeing it directly in their face or
anyone else's. They are entitled to their opinions, and their feelings
are absolutely valid and worthy of consideration.

I do think you need to find a way to be sensitive to other people's
concerns. Perhaps you can remove the information requested >from your
distribution list -- why not? It won't hurt anyone to remove it, but
apparently it does hurt someone in some way by not removing it. OK, so
it won't be *complete*, but you'll still have the information available
if you need it, and if someone else requests it, then you can send it
privately.

Here's one example >from my family: One of my grandmothers has been
married many times, including twice to the same man and two other times
to men who abusive. She has done a number of things that I know she
regrets or prefers not to discuss. What I have done is included only two
of her marriages -- my grandfather (the only one she had children with)
and her last husband (who was a wonderful man) -- and the rest are noted
elsewhere. I can include them when she passes away if I think it's
necessary, or just keep them in writing for future generations who are
interested. I think that most people have had times in their lives that
they would rather forget, and we can do them the kindness of respecting
that.

As for identifying information such as Social Security numbers and
telephone numbers of living people, I think it makes perfect sense to
request that they not be included if someone finds them upsetting. You
can at least make the effort to forge a compromise. Perhaps, as I said,
if someone wants a phone number, they can contact you directly. In this
age of electronic information and stolen identities, I think people
should have a right to request some level of privacy. This person has
asked you twice to stop doing something that they find upsetting and
intrusive; perhaps you can accommodate them rather than standing on
principle. Isn't one goal of genealogy to bring families together?

//Corin Barsily Goodwin
Cupertino, CA USA

BARSILA/BARZILY/BARZILOV -- Russia; Scotland; NYC
BASOK/BARSACH -- Orsha (Mogilev), Belarus; Scotland; NYC; Rhode Island
BRAUN -- Hungary; NYC ...WEISS -- Hungary; NYC; Middlesex, NJ
DU BOFF/MISTROFF -- Gorodische (Baronovich), Belarus; NYC & Long Island
KANEFSKY and RIVKIN -- Elizabetgrod, Ukraine; NYC
SIGAAR -- Amsterdam ...VAN SANTEN -- Amsterdam; NYC

MODERATOR NOTE: Excessive quotes deleted.