Re: Finding a CNP (personal identity number) for a deceased person in Romania #romania

Theo Rafael

Hi Marlise,

CNP was first introduced by law in 1978 and it wasn't much in use until more recently in the last couple of decades. They couldn't have had a CNP therefore back then.

You don't really need to hire a notary, you can write to the appropriate Romanian office yourself. This has been discussed frequently in the relevant Facebook groups such as Jewishgen Romania and Romania Genealogy.

Theo Rafael

Researching direct ancestors (mid 1800's and on):
RAFAEL = Transylvania - Geoagiu /Algyogy / Vintu de Jos / Alvincz / Pui / Geoagiu de Sus / Felgyogy / etc
JOZSEF Transylvania Geoagiu /Algyogy 
KOHN = Transylvania - Macea Macsa / Arad
SPITZER / SPITZ = Transylvania - Petris, Pecska, Arad 
DEUTSCH / LOBL = Bacs Bodrog  - Kanizsa / Magyarkanizsa / OKanizsa, Hungary / Kanjiza Serbia
WEISZKOPF(Weisskopf) / WEINER =  Gyöngyös, Heves, Hungary

Re: Defining "townsmen" + explaining surname longevity #ukraine

Alan Shuchat

The word "townsman" is an attempt to translate into English the Russian word meshchanin (мещанин). This comes from the Russian mesto (место) meaning place, and is related to the Polish miasto, meaning town. In fact, the Yiddish word shtetl means a small town. The article explains the classification of all Russian subjects into social classes, or social estates, based on an 1832 law. Except for merchants (this class required a certain amount of wealth) and members of crafts guilds, a Jew was usually classified as an urban commoner, or meshchanin. This classification appeared in vital records, revision lists, internal passports, and other documents. 

Sometimes meshchanin is rendered as petit bourgeois. This might be because the Russian title of Molière's French play Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme is Meshchanin vo dvoryanstve, a meshchanin who wants to be a nobleman.
Alan Shuchat
Newton, MA

SHUKHAT (Talnoe, Simferopol, Sevastopol, Odessa, Balta (Abazovka), Pogrebishche)
VINOKUR (Talnoe), KURIS (Mogilev-Podolskiy, Ataki, Berdichev)
ZILBERMAN (Soroki, Kremenets), BIRNBAUM (Kamenets-Podolskiy)
KITAIGORODSKI (Zvenigorodka), EMER (Mogilev-Podolskiy)

This week's Yizkor book excerpt on the JewishGen Facebook page #yizkorbooks #poland #JewishGenUpdates

Bruce Drake

“There had never before been a war such as this, just as there had never been an evil and malicious power such as this…”
The chapter “Fortitude of Spirit” from the Yizkor book of Czestochowa (Poland) stood out to me this week because it captures, in the Jewish experience, what it takes to fight back against an overwhelming force, as is happening now in Ukraine.
The author, Yeshayahu [Szaja] Landau, writes of the Jews facing defeat and death: “Without being able to even dream of gaining freedom, they waged a desperate war not in order to attain victory, but for the sake of doing battle! Not in order to save themselves, but to save the honour of their People … The sons of Częstochowa were among those who marched in the path of the rebellion and resistance. Just a small number of audacious individuals, who rose up to revolt against the plot of extermination, stood boldly in front of the cruel enemy's fierce machine”.

Bruce Drake
Silver Spring, MD

Towns: Wojnilow, Kovel

Enhancements to the LitvakSIG All-Lithuania Database #lithuania #announcements

Russ Maurer

Users of the LitvakSIG All-Lithuania Database (ALD) may have noticed some recent changes. As we bring the ALD into alignment with behind-the-scenes technical changes at JewishGen, which hosts the ALD, we are taking the opportunity to make improvements and corrections to each component database of the ALD. We hope these changes will make for a better search experience. The recent changes are described below. Changes to the remaining ALD component databases
will follow in the future. These changes will also be seen in ALD data included in results of searches of certain JewishGen databases through a long-standing database sharing agreement.

Note that this is not an announcement of additional new data.

The following ALD component databases have been reworked so far:

1. Vilnius Household Registers replaces a previous database of the same name. The display has been tweaked and there have been a few minor corrections.

2. Applications for Passports and Personal IDs replaces the previous database called Lithuania Internal Passports, 1919-1940. The new title better reflects the content of the database, which consists of passport applications rather than the passports themselves, includes foreign as well as internal passport applications, and includes applications made to Polish and German authorities, not just Lithuanian. A new field, Country, has been added to every record to indicate whether the application was made in territory controlled by Lithuania, Poland, or Germany. Also, a field for a film link (to familysearch) has been added because much of the Kaunas city material has been scanned and is online. The display has been tweaked.

3. Evacuation, Exile, Return replaces the previous database called WWII Evacuees. In addition to the evacuees list, this database currently includes two other lists on the theme of wartime displacement. One is the list of Obeliai questionnaires, filled out by Jews returning to independent Lithuania following WWI exile (this list was previously part of the Lithuania Internal Passports database). The other is the list of Jews repressed during the first Soviet occupation
of Lithuania (previously included in the Revision List database, from which it will be removed when we turn our attention to that database). The display has been tweaked.

4. Lithuania Marriages and Divorces replaces a previous database of the same name. Several thousand duplicate records have been removed, and the film/image information needed to locate images of the original records has been checked and corrected as needed. The display has been tweaked.

Any comments or corrections can be emailed to me at vhrproject@...

Russ Maurer
Pepper Pike, OH
Records Acquisition & Translation Coordinator, LitvakSIG

Finding a CNP (personal identity number) for a deceased person in Romania #romania


I am trying to obtain death records for two people who died in Focsani, Romania.  I understand that I need to hire a notary for this purpose because the people died in 1956 and 1971.  A notary, whom I contacted, told me that I need the CNP (personal identity number) for these people as that is how records are filed.  My only thought on how to obtain these numbers is to contact the cemetery to see if the numbers are on file there.  Has anyone had experience finding the CNP?  Also, if anyone has a recommendation for a notary in Focsani, please let me know.

Thank you,
Marlise Gross
Cherry Hill, NJ

Israeli Record contents #records #israel


My great aunt, Esterika Yalomitziano (in Hebrew:  ילומיציאנו)   , maiden name: Siberdi, immigrated to Israel in 1948. She died in 1980. Would her immigration record contain information on if she was married before entering Israel, and her husbands' name? No relatives are available to give me that information. She was born in Romania in 1907.
Any help on how to find this information would be appreciated.

Karen Sanders
West Haven, CT

Portugal's Nationality Law - Does it all end in an auto-da-fe? #events #sephardic


Portugal introduced a law offering citizenship to Sephardim and people of
Sephardic origin in 2015. The Sephardic genealogy community has long had
concerns over the implementation of the law, but these were ignored. What
was supposedly intended as reparation has quickly turned into something much

Questions over the award of Portuguese citizenship to Roman Abramovich by
the Jewish Community of Porto have caught global attention, especially in
light of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. An apparent knee-jerk reaction by
the Portuguese government may reward those who abused the system and punish
those who have diligently followed the rules. It also favours the rich over
the poor.

This is a fast-evolving situation. The Sunday meeting is an opportunity to
bring everyone up to date and to compare notes. We shall invite a
spokesperson of the Portuguese Government, but cannot guarantee attendance.

This will be a members-only meeting. If you want to become a patron, please
sign up at and we shall send you the link
on Sunday.
The meeting is on Sunday 20 March 2022 at 12 noon in LA, 3pm NYC, 7pm
London, 8pm Paris/Amsterdam, and 9pm Jerusalem. The link is shared at our
Patreon page at:

If you missed last week's talk, Sephardic Traditions - What is different
about Portuguese Jews? with Yehonatan Elazar-DeMota, you can watch it at:

Best wishes,

David Mendoza and Ton Tielen
Sephardic World
Sephardic Genealogical Society

Re: Cohen/Feldmans in Washington, D.C. #lithuania #usa


You might want to post some full names and dates of the individuals you seek information on. Otherwise it's like looking for a COHEN in a haystack.

Elias Savada
Bethesda MD

Re: relocation in the North Pale in the late 19th century #belarus #lithuania

Joel Ratner

Take a look at my library at the Internet Archive. You'll find information on the Russian rail routes throughout the 19th C.
Joel Ratner
Newton, MA
Addeddate 2017-08-20 19:33:29 Identifier RoadsandRailwaysoftheRussianEmpire Identifier-ark ark:/13960/t4vj1mf76 Ocr ABBYY FineReader 11.0 Ppi 600 Scanner

Sent from Outlook

Re: Looking for Korn's #ukraine

Eleanor Lind

I know Korn in UK
Eleanor Lind

Re: Israel/ death certificate #israel #records


According to the following link:

an application for a death certificate may be lodged online by close relatives (spouse, children, grandchildren, parents, grandparents).

Anyone else with reason to apply must visit an Interior Ministry office in person and bring a letter of explanation.

Robert Hammer
Petah Tikva, Israel

Re: Help translating Hebrew for GOULD #translation

Odeda Zlotnick

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 04:59 PM, <binyaminkerman@...> wrote:
I think the idea of this is Leah Gittel ODELSMAN, nee GOLD.
Nothing indicates being named after anyone but it is definitely possible.
I agree.  In other words: there is nothing to translate about this text only transliteration to be done..
The text has 3 parts of  a name spelled in Hebrew, read right to left, an English word (born), and another name in Hebrew after the English word "born".
When presented it in a word processor in a left to right paragraph direction, this bi-linguat text  creates a mess.

Note that paragraph direction is not the same as paragraph justification --  I copied this image from my Word program, with a right to left paragraph first, and a then left to right on the bottom.

Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.

Re: Defining "townsmen" + explaining surname longevity #ukraine

Michele Lock

On the definition of the word 'townsman' - 

From this page on Jewishgen (, is the following explanation:
"One should be aware that according to the regulations of the Russian Empire, every Jew was assigned to an official community in the Pale of Settlement, and that registration usually followed him for life, even when he moved from one place to another. In some fortunate cases, however, the registration changed when the individual received the privilege of moving into the merchant class or became a professional (physician, artist, etc.)."
Once one was registered to a town (the official community), that was the place to which one 'belonged', where one had the right to reside permanently. This is what is meant when a genealogical record is found that describes someone as being either registered to a town, or being a townsman of a particular place. It does not mean that a person had a certain economic status. Even the poorest Jews were registered as townsmen to a particular Jewish community.

My experience with Jewishgen records is when an event took place in one town, when the person was actually registered to a different town, then a note was made about the original town of registration, such as the following for a birth of a child to David Sturisky in Dotnuva, Lithuania. A comment was made that the family was from Shadova (Seduva), some 40 miles away; this is due to the grandfather Yosel Sturisky originally being from Shadova, though by that time he had been living in Dotnuva for several decades. His son David also took on the same registration to Shadova, even though it is unlikely he ever lived there:

In my Lak/Lock family, the original registration was to the town of Plunge, Lithuania, apparently in the 1830s or earlier. This registration never changed, even as Lak family members moved to Telsiai, Zagare, Gruzdziai, and then finally Riga Latvia, and Tallinn Estonia, some 70 years later.

Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Rabinowitz in Papile, Lithuania and Riga, Latvia
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus

Re: how to obtain a microfilmed record #records

Russ Maurer

To Jan McDonald's questions:

1. Yes, -/- means the record wasn't microfilmed (at least at the time the translation was done).
2. The archival citation (NHABMinsk/2412/1/1, or whatever) is included, or should be, with every record. It has nothing to do with whether the record was microfilmed. It is essential information if, for example, one were to request a copy of the record from the archive.
3. You are correct that there should be no image number since there is no film. Looks to me like this is a misplaced page number, the letter v referring to the back side of a page. The page number refers to the pagination of the original document and is not the same as the image number, which refers to the film.

The JewishGen templates for tsarist vital records do not have a place to put the page number. I'm not surprised that the translator thought to put it in the image field since the image field was otherwise vacant in this case. The better place to put it, and we sometimes do this with LitvakSIG records, is at the end of the archival citation, e.g., NHABMinsk/2412/1/1/14v.

Russ Maurer
Pepper Pike Ohio
Records Acquisition & Translation coordinator, LitvakSIG

Re: relocation in the North Pale in the late 19th century #belarus #lithuania

Adam Cherson

I've heard about Jewish Agricultural Colonies for northern Pale Jews going to the Black Sea area earlier in the 19th, but not as late as 1880: Maybe this activity persisted into the 1880s? And possibly some of those who migrated south later returned north (no green thumb: this could be my ggf's story I suppose) and when they did they were known as being from Kherson? BTW Good point about the trains. Now I have to find out whether feasible train lines connecting Odessa with Vilna existed in the 19th Century and when that started being feasible.
Adam Cherson

Re: I have never seen this before on a headstone #translation #general


Although a not very common given name in the 1800's, "Bas Tzion" is a biblical one. It is written in 19 places in the various of books of the Naviim & Kesuvim (Prophets & Scripture), including Melachim II: 19:21, Yeshayahu 10:32, 16:1, 37:22, 52:2,  Yirmiyahu 4;31, 6:2, 6:23, Michah 4:8, 4:10, Tzefania 3:14, Zechariah 2:14, 9:9, & Eichah 2:1, 2:4, 2:8, 2:13, 2:18 & 4:22. 
. It literally means "Daughter of Zion," & is a profound reference to the Jewish people in exile & to the destroyed Temple Mount in Jerusalem ("Har Bas Tzion," Yeshayahu 16:1)

Shimon Sporn of Beit Shemesh, Israel

Researcher # 57380

Perl, Margolies, Itzkowitz, Lehrer families from Kisvarda, Fenyeslitke, Ustilug,

Leher- Rozenberg families of Hrubieszów Galicia Edmondton, London

Sporn, Abraham families of Marosorozfalu, Rusii Munti, Saszreghin

Re: Cohen/Feldmans in Washington, D.C. #lithuania #usa

Laurence Broun

I have no idea if they could help, but you might want to try  info@...
Larry (Itzik Leib) Broun
Washington, DC | USA
e-mail: Laurencebroun@...

Re: Looking for Korn's #ukraine

David Syner

Hi Sandy 

I have Korn in my family tree. 9 siblings of YIHESKEL / YEHESKEL PLOP KORN and wife: FAIGA FEIGE DVORAH YANKELOVNA OR JANKELOWA
I only know 4 of there names. Esther Korn, Bracha Korn, Hunah Korn ( i was told all died in the War), and NAFTULE / NAFTAK “NATHAN” (who is my 1 cousin 4r)-(b. Warsaw, Poland)

He enter the USA though Galveston, Texas 1911 moved from TX to St. Louis and started a school. Yiddish teacher. moved to Chicago. Meet his wife Rachel "Rose" Motel/Motyl from GOSTINEN or Gostin, POLAND
 and raise his 2 daughter Phyllis and Selma in Detroit, Michigan (naturaltizan in NJ) 

ring any bells?


David Syner
Los Angeles, CA
cell 310-801-2279


Family website

SINER / ZINNER / ZINER New YorkBialystok

SCHMALTZ / SCHMALZ/SZMALZ New York, Luna, Grodno, Stoll, Rudman, Carbella ;Russia ( Grodno is now Hrodna, Belarus ) SCHULTZ TENN, AVES, Russia  POUSNER / POSNER, New York,Russia BERLIN Detroit BELENKY / BIELINKA / BELLINSKY Libau, Latvia , Mohilew  NEWMAN Detroit NEIMAN / NUONAW/ PENICA / PENITZ Krasosielc, Poland, Warshaw  MELTZERDetroit, Katrinslove or Poltavia or Gatrinslove (sp), Russia, or Yekahnislaw or Ekaterinoslau (Ekaterinoslav is now Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine) DEITCH, Russia   RACHATAN/RACHIDSON /RUSICHAU / RUSICHAN / KrasechanDwinsk,Russia ( Dwinsk is Daugavpils, Latvia) BELIAK/ BIELAK / BELAK Toronta, CanadaBreslaw, Slobotka,  Riga, Dwinsk, Israel SALOWEI / SALWAY / SOLOWEY London, Polotska YANKELOVNAJanklow Markova, Poland, Warsaw, NAPOVISKA, Russia

Re: Looking for Korn's #ukraine

Sherri Bobish


I have KORN in my family from Ustrzyki Dolne and Lutowiska in Galicia (today Poland.)

In 1894 Rachel KORN & her 6 small children immigrated from Ustrzyki Dolne to Toronto where the father awaited them.

In 1900 Chaje Feige KORN immigrated from Lutowiska, and was bound for her b-i-l  A. HIRSCH in NYC.
In 1910 Freida KORN (daughter of Rosie (?) BEER & Hersch KORN immigrated from Lutowiska and was bound for her Uncle Sam HAUSNER in NYC.  Freida KORN married Harry FREIDES (from Ustrzyki Dolne)  and lived in Manhattan & Brooklyn.

In 1920 Ewa KORN immigrated from Lutowiska to NYC.  She left behind Simon KORN in Lutowiska & was bound for her b-i-l in NYC Benjamin LIEBERMAN.
Good luck in your search,

Sherri Bobish

RATOWSKY / CHAIMSON (Ariogala, Lith.)
LEFFENFELD / FINK / KALTER (Daliowa & Jasliska, Pol.)
BOJDA / BLEIWEISS (Tarnow & Tarnobrzeg, Pol.)
WALTZMAN / WALZMAN (Ustrzyki Dolne, Pol.)
LEVY (Tyrawa Woloska, Pol.)
SOLON / SOLAN / SOKOLSKY (Grodek, Bialystok, Pol.)

From Sharkovshchina to Shkuntiki #lithuania

Marilyn Robinson

On 7/07/18, Ralph Salinger posted questions "for a friend" regarding the above topic and concerning members of the IUDIN family: Mendel Pinkus & Shimon/Sam YUDIN. The note was #272715. 
These individuals were my family---Pinkus was Mendel's father, Shimon was Mendel's grandson & Shimon (Sam) was my paternal grandfather.
I would like to contact Ralph or his "friend":
1. How would I make contact?
2. I would like answers to the questions posed by Ralph (I don't see any responses).

Here is a copy of Ralph's post:
Dear Readers,
I am posting this for a friend

Looking at the All Lithuania Revision List Database (Pt. 2) (Family List,
1888), my gggrandfather, Mendel Pinkus IUDIN, is listed as living in the
Shkuntiki village, Igumen area, Disna, Vilnius. [Family List,
LVIA/681/17/1103] Under the "Comments" section it notes that he was
"registered in Sharkov JC, lived in the village >from 1868".
1. What does the "JC" stand for?
2.Does this mean that Mendel moved >from Sharkovshchina to Shkuntiki, but
the registry wasn't updated to the new location? My grandfather (Mendel's
grandson), Shimon/Sam YUDIN, said that he came >from Sharkovshchina [this is about 9.5 miles >from Shkuntiki, unless he was referring to the district & not the village].
3. What registry does this refer to? Does it still exist? Is the original
page available online?
Thank you,
Marilyn Yudien Robinson

Searching Yudin/Iudin/Judin--Belarus, Rajchman/Reichman, Taflowicz, Zolna, Rajnglas/Reinglass, Josko--Tomaszow Mazwieki & Lodz

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