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Re: Yiddish Name "Chalia" #names

l.a.m.buisman@...
 

I have a "Chala" in:

Married 22 Mar 1807 London, England, Great Synagogue, Isaac Schalraig, fathers name Hirsh SGL, married 22 Mar 1807 to Catherine Solomon, Hebrew name Chalah, fathers name Shlomeh (synagoguescribes website). In Lewin's "Great Synagogue Marriage Registers" Isaacs name is correctly transcribed as Schabracq, and Catherine Solomons' Hebrew name as Hilla b Shlomo.

Unproven, but possible, that the bride was a Dutch/German Saartje Salomons, Saartje a diminutive of Sara.

Loes Buisman
Amsterdam


Re: Yiddish Name "Chalia" #names

Jack Berger
 

There was a member of my paternal family whose name was Chaya Leah, but pronounced Cha’leah. I think the fusion of two names was not  uncommon to make pronunciation easier.

Regards
Jack Berger
Mahwah, NJ


Suggestions for tracing Hungarian Shoah survivors? #hungary #holocaust

Wendy Kalman
 

In tracing relatives of my husband, I found that, per Yad Vashem, two daughters in one family from Panyola, Hungary survived the Holocaust: Iren Weisz, b. 1928  (https://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?language=en&itemId=7831016&ind=1) and Ilona Weisz, b. 1930 (https://yvng.yadvashem.org/nameDetails.html?language=en&itemId=7827508&ind=1), while their parents Bela and Pepi (nee Klein) Weisz did not. I tried searching JewishGen in English plus Googled their names and dates in both Hebrew and English, but have not come up with anything I am sure about.

Yad Vashem does not show a scan of the source but says the info for each came from a "List of survivors, found in Official Archives in Hungary - Card file of names of survivors who returned to Hungary, prepared by DEGOB, 1945-1946." In 1946, they would've been 18 and 16.

I did see references online to their names on lists about Bergen Belsen, but without parents or Panyola mentioned (but other Hungarian towns) -- and with both listed as born 1929, I cannot know this is them -- and even it was, it still doesn't tell me where they went next. 

Would anyone have any suggestions to share on what my next steps should be to try to find out what happened to the sisters? TIA.

Thank you for any suggestions.

Regards,
Wendy Kalman
Acworth, GA
wendybkalman@...


Re: Help With Hebrew Gravestone Translation Please #translation

davidmdubin@...
 

 
The two letters likely stand for godfearing as others wrote. 
 
Here comes too much information:
 
The confusion is the abbreviation (acronym) י״ד
 
Malka misread it as הי״ד “god should avenge his blood.” השם ינקום דמו
I initially thought the initial letter was left off for whatever reason, leaving “his blood should be avenged” יינקם דמו
Others rightly say it’s “godfearing” ירא השם, changing the letter ה to ד as is often done. The phrase Is commonly spelled out at that point in inscriptions so that’s likely correct. 
 
Why the letter change?
1- the acronym י״ה spells out a name of god, a no-no
2- the letter ה has taken on quasi-holy status as a stand-in for god’s name, even though all “השם“ means is “the name”, so it’s often changed to similar-appearing ד. 

--
David Dubin
Teaneck, NJ


Re: Do you find the name Chaia/Chaja/Chaya instead of Chana, and vice versa, in English transliterated from Russian (cyrillic) hand written documents? #russia #names

joelbnovis@...
 

The name Chaia/Chaya et al. in Cyrillic, written as Хая, only has three letters.

The name Chana in Cyrillic, written as Хана, has four letters, as does Chasya (Хася), also a not-uncommon given name in late 19th-century Russia.  There is the possibility that the letter н /n/ would be elided or made difficult to read in the case of sloppy, hurried or very idiosyncratic penmanship, but otherwise the length of the written name should be visually discernible right away.

I could see two possible sources for this error:  the first would be a reading error on the part of the person transliterating or transcribing;  the second would be where other sources show a name as Chaia and the source in question shows Chana, possibly due to the recording clerk's disinterest or unfamiliarity with the name.  I have an example in my own family, where my great-grandmother Chasya's name was listed in an 1875 Kyiv family list as Chaia, alongside other similar errors.  This was a document likely compiled by a Russian not familiar with Jewish names who wrote what he thought he heard.

J. Novis
Longmeadow, MA
Researching NOVITSKIY (Kyiv Gubernia), OLSZTAJN (Łódź area), GEYMAN/HYMAN (Ashmyany), POMERANTZ (Kapyl', Navahrudak), POTASNIK/LEVY (who knows?)


Re: Do you find the name Chaia/Chaja/Chaya instead of Chana, and vice versa, in English transliterated from Russian (cyrillic) hand written documents? #russia #names

Michael Sharp
 

In the UK it may also have been a combination of largely uneducated border officials, etc and the heavy guttural accent of the immigrants. My great great grandmother Michle Chaya was recorded as Sara on her children's birth certificates in the UK 
--
Michael Sharp
Manchester UK
michael.sharp@...


Re: Yiddish Name "Chalia" #names

Jill Whitehead
 

I have a female ancestor Thalia or Talia (rather than Chalia) who was born in the 18th century in Vishtinetz (Yiddish) now Vistytis in Lithuania.  

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Re: Do you find the name Chaia/Chaja/Chaya instead of Chana, and vice versa, in English transliterated from Russian (cyrillic) hand written documents? #russia #names

Judith Singer
 

Yes. I have found Chaia/Chaja/Chaya frequently appear as Chana in transliterations. I do not know why this happens, but sloppiness on the part of the original recorder and human error by the original recorder, the person who did the transliteration, and if different, the person who input the data could each have caused the error. 

Judith Singer
researching Charney, Chernuski, and Charneliatze and variations of each in Lithuania


Re: Request for assistance with handwritten cyrillic birth records #latvia #translation

dprice dprice
 

42 Sept 7/Elul 21 Liepaja, Movshe ROT, Menukha nee FRYDBERG, daughter: Sheyne

73 3 LEWITMAN April 11/Nison 27, Movsha Abram ROT, Liepaja, Mnukha nee FEYNBLIKH, child: Simon

--
David Price researching PRAJS of Kielce/Bieliny; GORLICKI of Chmielnik; KUSZNER/BADASZ of Grodno, Belarus


Re: Do you find the name Chaia/Chaja/Chaya instead of Chana, and vice versa, in English transliterated from Russian (cyrillic) hand written documents? #russia #names

Russ Maurer
 

The theory doesn't hold up, because Chaya in Russian is not generally written Хаиа as the writer assumes. It is written Хая, which is not easily mistaken for Хана (Chana). The Russian letter я is transliterated as ya, ja, or ia depending on the transliteration system.

That said, it is certainly the case that many handwritten documents are messy to begin with, and their condition deteriorates with age. Ambiguities and mistakes in reading them are inevitable.

Russ Maurer
Pepper Pike, OH


Re: Yiddish Name "Chalia" #names

YY Bond
 

Has anyone ever come across the name "Chalia" for a woman?
 
The name was most likely a Yiddish name for a Jewish woman who was born in the Ukraine approximately 1850. Her maiden surname was Levine. 
 
I haven't found the name in Harkavy's 1925 list (or any of the other wonderful name resources on https://bloodandfrogs.com/names:)
 
The name was dictated to a clerk in NY on a death certificate as someone's mother's name.  It is possible the clerk misheard and mistranslated. 
 
There are some websites which say it is a Hebrew name but I am not sure if the aforementioned woman would have gone by a Hebrew name and it seems to be uncommon. I have never heard it in modern usage.
 
I thought perhaps it is some kind of merging of the name "Chaya Leah" ?
 
Thank you,
 
Yechezkel Bund


Request for assistance with handwritten cyrillic birth records #latvia #translation

pb@...
 

I wonder if I might request assistance with the translation of two birth records in Cyrillic from Liepaja (Libau in Courland).  One is copied here, and the other is attached as a pdf.

In both cases, it is only the record at the top of the column (surname Rot or Roth) that i am interested in.

Many thanks

Philip Baker (London)



Re: Translation of Hebrew on tombstone #translation

fredelfruhman
 

I am returning to apologize for my abrupt "corrections".  Those two items are the only ones that I am reading differently, and I should have been much more polite.

Please excuse my rudeness; it was unintentional.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA


Re: Translation of Hebrew on tombstone #translation

fredelfruhman
 

I have two corrections to the above reply.

The abbreviation that was read as "May G-d avenge his soul"  (which would be a three-letter abbreviation), is actually the two-letter abbreviation for "G-d fearing".  (G-d's name can be abbreviated as a Daled in addition to as a Hay).

His father's name was Aryeh.  It appears to read Ari, but a closer examination reveals an abbreviation mark, indicating that the last letter of the name was not engraved.  This is sometimes the custom, when spelling out a person's name in full would also be spelling out G-d's name at the end.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA


Re: Help With Hebrew Gravestone Translation Please #translation

Shlomo Katz
 

FIRST LINE: Died 23 Elul 692
SECOND LINE: Here is buried an elderly and G-d-fearing man R' Avraham son of
THIRD LINE: Aryeh Teitelbaum from Tschortkov

Note: The phrases "Here is buried" and "G-d-fearing" are both written as acronyms.

Shlomo Katz


Re: Translation of Hebrew on tombstone #translation

Shlomo Katz
 

The traditional abbreviation of "May G-d avenge is soul" is הי"ד.
Simply י"ד is more likely to be "Yerei Hashem" / "G-d-fearing."
Since the tombstone says he was elderly, there is no reason to think he died as a martyr in 1932.

Shlomo Katz


Re: Do you find the name Chaia/Chaja/Chaya instead of Chana, and vice versa, in English transliterated from Russian (cyrillic) hand written documents? #russia #names

Odeda Zlotnick
 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 05:41 PM, <kosfiszer8@...> wrote:
My theory on why this is happening is that while in Latin and Hebrew hand written characters n, i ,y and j are substantially different graphs,
This is an incorrect theory as far as Hebrew is concerned.  


All it takes is a little bit of sloppiness, a bad nib on your fountain pen or feather, or a bad scan - and the middle characters in red can be mistaken for each other. 



--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.


Re: Do you find the name Chaia/Chaja/Chaya instead of Chana, and vice versa, in English transliterated from Russian (cyrillic) hand written documents? #russia #names

Miriam Bulwar David-Hay
 

Actually, this is true in Polish too. Often the letter n is written cursively “upside down” so it looks like a u or an i, making it hard to see whether the name is Chana or Chaia.

Also faced the same issue with the male names Icek and Josek. Because of the way the first letters are written, it can sometimes be hard to tell which name it’s supposed to be. 

All the best,
Miriam Bulwar David-Hay,
Raanana, Israel.
Professional journalist, writer, editor, proofreader.
Professional translator (Hebrew/Yiddish to English).
Certified guide, Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial and Museum.
Email: miriambdh@...

Researching: BULWA/BULWAR (Rawa Mazowiecka, Lodz, Paris); FRENKIEL/FRENKEL, FERLIPTER/VERLIEBTER (Belz); KALUSZYNER, KUSMIERSKI, KASZKIET, KUZKA, JABLONKA, RZETELNY, WROBEL (Kaluszyn, Lodz); KRYSKA/KRYSZKA, CHABIELSKI/HABELSKI (Sieradz, Lodz); LICHTENSZTAJN (Kiernozia, Wyszogrod, Lodz); ROZENBERG (Przedborz, Lodz); WAKS (Nowe Miasto nad Pilica, Lodz); PELCMAN, STORCZ (Rawa Mazowiecka); SOBEL (Paris); SAPIR/SZAFIR (Wyszogrod).  


Re: Translation of Hebrew on tombstone #translation

kassells@...
 

Good morning, 

Thank you for this interesting translation. I'd like to add a few comments. 

The date of 23 Elul 5692 corresponds to September 24 1932.

The name of the city from which the deceased gentleman originated from is called in Polish Czortków. Between both world war this city was in Poland. Now it is in Ukraine and is called Chortkiv. See this quote from WikipediaChortkiv (UkrainianЧортківPolishCzortkówYiddishטשאָרטקאָוו Chortkov)

This brings a general comment for transliteration from Yiddish. In this case, as in many situations, the letter Aleph is used to express the voyel o.

Finally, I am not sure of the reading "G-d avenge his soul". This traditionally expressed as a three-letter abbreviation H"YD placed AFTER  the name of the deceased person. Here I read two letters only YD that I propose to elucidate as G-d fearing. It fliws better also with the text.

Best regards, 

Laurent Kassel 
Moreshet, Israel 


Omer Bartov Interviews With Gesher Galicia President Steven S. Turner #ukraine #galicia #poland

Steven Turner
 

Gesher Galicia is happy to announce that we have uploaded the videos of the interview between the eminent historian Omer Bartov and GG President Steven S. Turner to our YouTube Channel. The topic of the interview was his books, "Erased: Vanishing Traces of Jewish Galicia in Present-Day Ukraine," and "Voices on War and Genocide: Three Accounts of the World Wars in a Galician Town."
The interview is in 2 parts.
Part 1 - "Erased" & WWI
Part 2 - WWII & the Holocaust
We are also excited to announce that Dr. Bartov has agreed to sit for another interview with Dr. Turner on his just released book "Tales from the Borderlands: Making and Unmaking the Galician Past." Watch for the announcement when that interview will be uploaded to the Members Portal exclusively for GG members.
Shavuah tov,
Steven S. Turner

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