Date   

Seeking advice on 1800s Warsaw records #poland #records

Barry Clarke
 

My great-grandmother Molly's 1929 South African death notice states she was born in WARSAW.
Her son, my grandfather Samuel's UK 1921 census states he was born in WARSAW.
Earlier UK censuses state her daughter, Gertrude, was born in Russian Poland. I believe WARSAW.
I suspect too both of Molly's marriages were in WARSAW.

Yet, I have no idea how to verify any of this or where to ask for records: That is the guidance I am seeking.
 
The limited information I have: 
 
1. Molly's Polish family name was SZKLARKIEWICZ. Her Hebrew name was RACHEL MALKAH BAT MORDECHAI MATTITYAHU HALEVI. She was born in Warsaw around 1863.
Her anglicized name was MOLLY (MALA?) CLARKE. Her father was MATTHEW (MATEUSZ?). Her mother was ZLATA or SIMILAR. Her brother, MAX (MAKSYMILIAN?), was born
in Jedwabne, Lomza, in 1869.
 
2. Molly's son, my grandfather, we only ever knew as SAMUEL CLARKE. We don't have Polish or Hebrew names for him. He was born in Warsaw on 22 April 1881.
 
3. Samuel's father, Molly's first husband, was a STEIGLITZ (or SIMILAR). We don't know his FIRST NAME. We assume Molly and Steiglitz were married in Warsaw as Samuel
was born there. Steiglitz was in the army and died or was killed around the time Samuel was born, around 1881. We know absolutely nothing else about Steiglitz or any family he may have had.
 
4. Molly emigrated to the UK with baby Samuel, per family sometime between 1881 and 1883. (There are no passenger lists or immigration records in that era from European countries to the UK.) Aboard ship, Molly met JACOB CLARKE, Hebrew name YAAKOV BEN CHAIM ISRAEL, born in Losice, Siedlce. They married (see below). We know MOLLY anglicized SZKLARKIEWICZ to CLARKE because Molly's brother, Max, was known as MAX CLARKE. We know nothing about Jacob or any family of his, and we even wonder if he took the CLARKE name from Molly rather than it being his name too (doubt endogamy as they apparently had not known each other before meeting on the ship.) 
 
5. Molly and Jacob's UK marriage authorization and certificate show that they married in Dublin in 1890.
 
6. However, per UK censuses, their daughter, GERTRUDE, was born around 1887 in RUSSIAN POLAND, three years before their UK marriage. My theory is that Molly and Jacob went back for a while to Russian Poland in the mid to latter 1880s, probably had a religious marriage in Warsaw, where Molly gave birth to Gertrude, and when they returned to the UK they married again to have an official UK marriage record. The reason I believe this took place in Warsaw is that I found a Warsaw studio photo of a heavier Molly than I had seen in a later UK photo, and so I believe it was taken around the time of Gertrude's birth. An expert at interpreting old photos dated that Warsaw photo to have been taken around 1887/8, which ties in with that theory. The Majorkiewicz photographic studio at 3 Plac Krasinskich is a somewhat classy address but I don't have a clue as to what that might tell us. Jacob in the UK in the 1890s gave his profession on the marriage certificate as a general dealer and on his naturalization certificate as a draper. 
 
So, I am wondering if anyone out there has appropriate experience to tell me honestly and realistically what chance there is, AND HOW, to try and locate any Warsaw records relating to any of these births or marriages, or to discover anything more about the family at all. I have tried all the usual ancestry and Jewish genealogy websites.

Thank you,

Barry Clarke
Brit living in Florida. Gmail address: bbclarke98

SZKLARKIEWICZ changed to CLARKE from Warsaw, Jedwabne and the Lomza region
STEIGLITZ or SIMILAR, possibly from Warsaw, died or was killed around 1881

BARNETT supposedly BIENSTOCK OR SIMILAR, from Poland but not known where
NEUMARK changed to NEWMARK from Poznan
LEVINSON changed to BRAHAM from Kalisz
GOODMAN from Poland but not known where
ABRAHAMS from Poland but not known where
 


Re: Finding history in Glasgow, Scotland and tracing un-named relative #unitedkingdom

rv Kaplan
 

Migration in stages was very common at that time, with East European Jewish immigrants often moving around cities and towns in Britain and Ireland, before settling down, or
later moving on to the USA, Canada, South Africa etc. (Also happened a number of times in my family.) In Scotland, they could leave by ship from Glasgow.

Not so sure about the story of a ship from Hamburg stopping at a Scottish port.   I've never heard of weather causing an immigrant ship to make an unscheduled stop at a Scottish port. 
Wouldn't think they would be anywhere near Scotland and it was most likely that any stop would have been at an English port. 

Harvey Kaplan
Scottish Jewish Archives Centre
Glasgow

On Sat, 6 Aug 2022 at 16:54, <janllb@...> wrote:
Option B) happened in my LASTMAN and KUTNER families, in that a stop in the UK (Glasgow and London respectively) for several months to a couple of years to raise funds both for passage and for North American resettlement, was made (usually by the men immigrating ahead if their families). I assume North America was thought to be more desirable esp pre WWI due to friends and relatives already being here.
--
Jan Lastman, Toronto ON CANADA  janllb@...

Researching: LASTMAN/N HOLLAND=>Lublin early 1700s; mid-1800s=>POLAND: Łódź, Radom, Warsaw, Szydlowiec, Ostrowiec; GERMANY: Leipzig, Breslau. Married KLAJMAN, KAUFMAN, LEDERMAN, KAC, CUKIER, MANDELSBERG (to DAVIDSON), STROSBERG, WAJCHANDLER, KUTNER/KUTCHINSKY=> Toronto, Philadelphia, Rio de Janeiro pre/post WWI. Survivors=> France, Israel, Australia, Sweden, USA
 ———————————————————————————
Also researching: SINGER/ZYNGIER POLAND: Janow Poldaski=>Toronto, ?Columbus OH? pre WW1 married SCHAFER/SHAFIR UKRAINE: Linitz/Illinits=>Toronto, Detroit, NYC 
 ———————————————————————————
See also: Rapoport-Quint Tree
 https://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-69044942/rapoport-quint


Travelling from Bessarabia to Argentina #bessarabia

bubala8@...
 

I am trying to find some ancestry information via shipping lists.  However, I do not know where to start.  All I know is that my grandfather’s niece and her husband moved from Bessarabia, then Romania (now Moldova) to Buenos Aires, Argentina.  I presume this was some time after World War I or perhaps just before.  I know the name of her husband (Mordechai Vays) but nothing else.

 

My question is, when leaving Bessarabia to get to Buenos Aires, how would they have travelled, e.g. from which European port?  Would it be from a Spanish port such as Barcelona or Cadiz or could it be from Naples or Marseilles or would they have gone from a location nearer to Bessarabia?

 

I have inherited a family postcard from my grandfather.  On one side is writing which I have tried to get translated with minimal success regarding family details.  On the other side is a photo of the niece, her husband and their daughter.  This appears to have been taken professionally in Buenos Aires in the 1920s, from the clothing that the family are wearing, plus there is a postmark with the words “Buenos Aires” on it.

 

Any information about shipping lines that the family might have taken to reach Argentina at that time would be most appreciated. Thank you.

 

 

Sandra Wasserman

 


Romanian vital and school records #romania #records

Michael Sharp
 

Any ideas for decent databases for birth records,  etc for someone born in Bucharest in 1891, also for subsequent school matriculation.

Haven't been able to find much on JewishGen or Ancestry.

Thanks
--
Michael Sharp
Manchester UK
michael.sharp@...


Re: Finding history in Glasgow, Scotland and tracing un-named relative #unitedkingdom

janllb@...
 

Option B) happened in my LASTMAN and KUTNER families, in that a stop in the UK (Glasgow and London respectively) for several months to a couple of years to raise funds both for passage and for North American resettlement, was made (usually by the men immigrating ahead if their families). I assume North America was thought to be more desirable esp pre WWI due to friends and relatives already being here.
--
Jan Lastman, Toronto ON CANADA  janllb@...

Researching: LASTMAN/N HOLLAND=>Lublin early 1700s; mid-1800s=>POLAND: Łódź, Radom, Warsaw, Szydlowiec, Ostrowiec; GERMANY: Leipzig, Breslau. Married KLAJMAN, KAUFMAN, LEDERMAN, KAC, CUKIER, MANDELSBERG (to DAVIDSON), STROSBERG, WAJCHANDLER, KUTNER/KUTCHINSKY=> Toronto, Philadelphia, Rio de Janeiro pre/post WWI. Survivors=> France, Israel, Australia, Sweden, USA
 ———————————————————————————
Also researching: SINGER/ZYNGIER POLAND: Janow Poldaski=>Toronto, ?Columbus OH? pre WW1 married SCHAFER/SHAFIR UKRAINE: Linitz/Illinits=>Toronto, Detroit, NYC 
 ———————————————————————————
See also: Rapoport-Quint Tree
 https://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-69044942/rapoport-quint


Re: Identifying name of town #belarus #names #translation

Howard Morris
 

Lee, nice detective work. Thanks.  I suppose  the name Kruglansky could have been changed to Krugloff?  .
I've  now looked on the JewishGen resources  for towns near Pirjatin that might match  the partially illegible "d" or "b"  town in the naturalization papers, but couldn't find any suspects.
"Derechn" in Belarus is a possible reading in the naturalization papers, and that is consistent with my family's belief that she came from Belarus and maybe Minsk there. But this is inconsistent with the evidence of Pirjatin,Ukraine per the ship manifest. I suppose she could have been born in one place and moved to another place, and used both place names.
Howard Morris
Needham, MA
howalt1@...


Re: Finding history in Glasgow, Scotland and tracing un-named relative #unitedkingdom

Susan J. Gordon
 

Hi again,

My husband remembers our story a little differently, and I think he's correct -

The Scottish Jews we met in Barbados said in the late 19th century, their ancestors set sail for the US from an European port - maybe Hamburg - and sailed west. But when a big storm arose, making the trip hazardous, the captain made an unexpected stop at a port in Scotland. He ordered everyone off the ship to wait out the storm. This took a few days, and that's when the ancestors of the couples we met decided to stay in Scotland (which, they said, some people thought was the US.)

Susan J. Gordon
New York
ZBARAZH - Bialazurker
SKALAT - Schoenhaut, Lempert
LVOV - Lempert

<<Hi and this is just a side-bar but... about 20+ years ago, my husband and I were vacationing in Barbados when we started chatting with a few couples with Scottish accents. When we mentioned that we were Jews, they said they were, too! Until then, we had never met or even known about Scottish Jews, but their "history" was - some time in the late 19th century, their Galician ancestors boarded a ship in England (probably Southhampton) heading to America. When the ship docked in a busy harbor, they got off (!) People spoke English and the travelers thought they had arrived in the New World. Somewhat later, they figured out that they had not crossed the Atlantic, but since they liked Scotland, they stayed there. >>


Translator Sends News of Brave Jewish Professor #ukraine #education

Laurence Broun
 

My friend Dmytro Aladko, translator for the Ukrainian language version of Yizkor Book of Mizoch, sends news of his colleague Maksym Gon. Professor Gon has produced materials commemorating the Shoah in Rivne and teaching that dark history to the current generation of Ukrainian youth. Gon's story is told in the following article in the Forward and shed's light on the Jewish community of Ukraine and the war.
https://forward.com/news/513172/jewish-ukrainian-professor-war/?fbclid=IwAR1mxnffkqscnjFJwYretu4rXLnwPWcKsaWbbFa4GQBN_t5d1-Oib4ePQik  


--
Larry (Itzik Leib) Broun
Washington, DC | USA
e-mail: Laurencebroun@...


Re: Warsaw Uprising and liberation of "Gęsiówka" concentration camp. #holocaust #poland

Frank Szmulowicz
 


Re: Pinchas Halevi Horowitz and Miriam Beyla Isserles #names

Judy
 

Hello for some reason these names were familiar and the data I have on them was sourced via:
The Freedmann files on Ancestry
Jewage web site
Loren family on Rootsweb.com

1. I have “Pinchas HaLevi (Bilof Rema) Horowitz” born ant 1490 Praha Bohemia, died 3 jan 1618 Krakow, Poland

married to
Miriam Baila Isserlis daughter of Rabbi Israel Joseph Isseries REMA and Malka bat Lipmann Elizer Shrentzel.

My grandfather Sigmund Louis Silber was born in Pryzemyl, Poland and died in Victoria Australia. There are many Silber there and would love to find out more information if anyone has any documents etc. I have a lot of Silber but unfortunately that because of the Holocaust I am unsure of what happened to some of the family members

hope this is of help
Judith Levron
Australia


Re: Minsk - historic city street names #belarus

Michael Paul
 

Hi Daniel,

Here's a couple of options from a friend in the Jewish Families from Belarus Circa 1330-1945 Facebook group. He sent me 3+ page street list which I've attached. 

Site orda.of.by have interesting service with four maps at screen (old+new)
And he mentioned the groups/myminskhistory on FB and you may find someone to help.
And the book "All Minsk. 1911" available at FamilySearch, there are all streets and crossroads. But the book in Russian
Good luck,
Michael Paul


Immigration/Emigration records sought #records

ebachert@...
 

In the 1920s, Paul Seidner born in Hungary and Johanna Klein born in Romania sailed from Europe to Havana, Cuba, at a time when there was a large influx of Jews into the island. It is rumored they may have been married on the ship. They stayed in Havana where they raised a family until the Castro revolution prompted them to move to the United States where they eventually passed. I've been trying to find their dates of immigration into Havana. The web site Cubagenweb is in the process of transcribing passenger lists for online lookup but they've not gone beyond 1900 and it's a slow process.

I don't know from what European port they sailed. I'd like to know of resources, preferably online, where I might be able to find sailing in/out information. I've already searched Ellis Island records to see if they came through New York and, although there are people on there that match their names, the other data indicate it is not them. I've not found information on Ancestry, Family Search, etc. 

Does anyone have ideas for where else I may look for this information?  Maybe it's easier if I can find out the ports where they may have sailed out of?

Eugenia Bachert
New Jersey, USA


can anybody make sense of this document? it uses Hebrew characters, but what does it say. #israel #sephardic #translation

kosfiszer8@...
 

Can anybody tell me the contents of the document. It may be a document from the Jews of Spain or Portugal, or their descendants.

--

Angel Kosfiszer

Richardson, Texas


Bessarabia Group progress report for the month of July, 2022 #bessarabia #ukraine #JewishGenUpdates #records

Yefim Kogan
 

Dear friends, researchers, 

Here is an update for the Bessarabia SIG projects for the month of July 2022.   

See also at What's New at Bessarabia website.

Bessarabian Databases. Updates:

    • Revision Lists, plan to upload to JewishGen in December of 2022. We have records from following towns: Kishinev, Khotin, Brichany, Lipkany, Skulyany, Ataki, Akkerman, Kiliya, and others. See the progress.

  • Vital Records, upload in December of 2022. There are records from Soroki uezd birth records for several years, Kishinev Death records for several years.


Bessarabia SIG Winter Symposium:

  • History, Genealogy, Culture. 13-15 December 2022. The Bessarabia Special Interest Group (Bessarabia SIG) and JewishGen invite you to participate in a Virtual Winter Symposium, a series of live, online presentations to run from December 13 through 15, 2022.
    Sessions will explore historical experiences of our ancestors in Bessarabia, assist your family research, and expand your understanding and appreciation of their culture.

    You will meet presenters from Canada, Germany, France, Brazil, Moldova, Ukraine, the United States, and perhaps others. Presentations will delve into ideas and issues that are relevant not only to Bessarabia but also to other regions.

    If you would like to present a talk during the Symposium, please submit a proposal no later than September 1, 2022, to Yefim Kogan at yefimk@...

    The detailed schedule is going to be added in the end of September.

If you have questions about our group/website, please do not hesitate to email me.

Shabbat Shalom,
Yefim Kogan
JewishGen Bessarabia SIG Leader and Coordinator


Re: Jewish Convertions to Catholic in Austria before and during WW2 #austria-czech

David S STERN
 

A friend and former colleague did a great deal of research on Jewish conversions in Austria during the Nazi period.  Though she never completed the book project, she can answer many questions.  I'll be happy to put you in touch with her if you will private message me.

David STERN
Tampa, FL   USA
dstern@...

Moderator note: please reply privately


Re: Consanguinity and stillbirths #general

EdrieAnne Broughton
 

This is not just in Jewish families.  My great great grandparents were double first cousins when they married in 1861.  This was 1 marriage of five marriages over a ten year period.  Four sisters and one brother married four brothers and one sister.  Their parents were one set of siblings and one set of 1st cousins, once removed.  In this case they had moved from the far north of Maine to the 'frontier' of Pennsylvania with a newly minted Methodist circuit rider.  This family had had previous cousin marriages for several generations back to 1776.  When you wanted to marry inside a 'new' religion sometimes you had to marry a cousin, marry outside your religion or not marry at all.  Not much of a choice really.  I have similar experience in several Quaker lines in the other branch of my family.  These families had a higher incidence of stillbirths, and early childhood deaths but it had more to do with TB coming back with soldiers of the Civil War and rigors of the frontier than genetic diseases rising to the front.  Makes DNA analysis a real adventure.  
EdrieAnne Broughton
Vacaville, California


Re: Translation and transcription request - German #translation #germany #austria-czech

fredelfruhman
 

Are you familiar with jewishgen's wonderful ViewMate feature?

You can post images of each separate page, up to 5 images per week.

I think that you are more likely to receive responses if each page is posted separately.

Here is a link with instructions:  https://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/topost.asp 
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA

Moderator note: We actually prefer that several ViewMart requests be in a single post in order to keep the number of messages into a member's inbox at a minimum.


This week's Yizkor book excerpt on the JewishGen Facebook page #JewishGenUpdates #yizkorbooks

Bruce Drake
 

“Jews and Christians — The Relationship between Neighbors” from the Yizkor book of Edineţ (Moldova) describes a kind of peaceful co-existence that lasted for a time between the two communities, although it was always an uneasy one for the Jews. For the Christians, it was another story: “When a Jew, whether a young boy or an adult wandered into the Christian quarter, he did not feel at ease. On the other hand, the Christians felt quite fine among the Jews.”
Part of the balance derived from what each side provided for the other. The food produced by the Christian farmers was a key element in the economy and Christians did a variety of tasks for the Jews. A Christian was postman; he was the one who heated the oven in the winter Sabbath early mornings in the Jewish homes; he was the guard of the Jewish cemetery; he would guard the memorial candles lit in the courtyards on Shabbat and the Jewish holidays; he was the cowherd for the herd of cows. As for the Christians, they had to come to the Jews to acquire clothing, shoes, haberdashery, baked goods, tobacco, and alcoholic drinks.
But this state of affairs was not to last because of the jealousy the Christians felt over the wealth, and the lifestyle of the Jews. “Many of them harbored evil plans in their hearts and waited for the day when they would be able to have a pogrom and steal all the Jewish possessions.”

--
Bruce Drake
Silver Spring, MD

Researching: DRACH, EBERT, KIMMEL, ZLOTNICK
Towns: Wojnilow, Kovel


Re: Consanguinity and stillbirths #general

Sarah L Meyer
 

Jews not only accept but condone first cousin marriages.  Last week's Parsha  Massei, which concludes the book of numbers ends with the discussion of the 5 daughters of Zelophaphad.  Their father died in the Wilderness and they had no brother.  They asked Moses for his share of inheritance in the land of Israel.  This was granted but male members of the tribe said that the land would pass out of the tribe if they married out of the tribe. during the Jubilee.  The conclusion was they must marry within the tribe.  The conclusion was that they married their father's brother's sons!   So they married their first cousins - and from that day forward Jews have married first cousins.  I have some of this in my family - similar to what others have seen but not a lot.  My mother told me that her father (my Zeidi) wanted me to marry my first cousin.  Fortunately - we did not.  
--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com


ViewMate translation request - Polish #translation

Joan
 

Hi,
I've posted a vital record in Polish for which I need a translation. It is on ViewMate at the following address ...

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM99454

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thank you very much.
Joan Silverman

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