Date   

addendum to Language in Kassa/Kosice #hungary

Rakoff125
 

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Oh yeah, I just read Tom V.'s contribution. I remember also that My GM said
my Gt Gt GM spoke Slovakian to the peasants. They lived in Kassa since the
1870s. I too got the sense that Yiddish was not a 'player' in the household.
My grandmother and her brothers born in 1897 and 1898 all called themselves
Hungarian Jews. When they came to New York with their parents in 1907 they
lived in a number of places in the Yorkville [or is it Yorktown?] area of
NYC,....the east 80s and uptown. There seemed to be a meaningful Hungarian
presence there. I recall attending a family party at a traditional Hungarian
night club around 86th St....I'll never forget the fabulous violins!
Linda Rakoff
Newton, MA


Hungary SIG #Hungary addendum to Language in Kassa/Kosice #hungary

Rakoff125
 

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Oh yeah, I just read Tom V.'s contribution. I remember also that My GM said
my Gt Gt GM spoke Slovakian to the peasants. They lived in Kassa since the
1870s. I too got the sense that Yiddish was not a 'player' in the household.
My grandmother and her brothers born in 1897 and 1898 all called themselves
Hungarian Jews. When they came to New York with their parents in 1907 they
lived in a number of places in the Yorkville [or is it Yorktown?] area of
NYC,....the east 80s and uptown. There seemed to be a meaningful Hungarian
presence there. I recall attending a family party at a traditional Hungarian
night club around 86th St....I'll never forget the fabulous violins!
Linda Rakoff
Newton, MA


Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Re: Yiddish in Hungary #hungary

Herb Meyers <herbiem@...>
 

My father came >from Maramaros County, the part that is now Ukraine. The
language of his family was Yiddish although he knew a little Hungarian.
My mother came >from Bereg County. Her primary language was Hungarian
but she knew a little Yiddish. Both my mother's and father's family were
Orthodox. After they married in the U.S. the both became proficient in
each other's language as well as in English.

Researching:

MEYEROWITZ/MAJEROVIC: Lipsha, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
BERMAN: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Botrad/Botragy, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
CHAIMOWITZ/HAYFER: Dragovo/Drahiv/Kovesliget, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
SOLOMON: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)

Herb Meyers
Boulder, CO
herbiem@mindspring.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kelemen <m.kel@home.com>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: Yiddish in Hungary


I have found that my Hungarian relatives
do not for the most part speak Yiddish.

Whatever my father knows he learned
here. The son of the rabbi >from his town,
does speak Yiddish. So orthodoxy might
have been the key factor.

Avrumy Heschel mentioned that his interviews
were for the "YIVO Zamler Project").

Would they be interested in any of our
interviews with our relatives?

Michael Kelemen


This SIG (h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
To post a message to this mailing list please address it to
<h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>

Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/ , and remember
the
H-SIG message archives at
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Re: h-sig: translation, please #hungary

Victor Feintuch <victor@...>
 

Maybe he was a sopher - a Hebrew scribe. The sofer writes Tefillin, Mezuzos
and Torahs.
Victor

-----Original Message-----
From: tom klein [mailto:tom_klein@tvo.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:33 AM
To: Hungarian SIG
Cc: Faith Gardner
Subject: Re: h-sig: translation, please
Importance: Low


the closest i can guess is "suszter", which means "shoemaker" or "cobbler".

regards,

....... tom klein, toronto

"Faith Gardner" <ragfhg@earthlink.net> wrote:

fg>>> Yesterday in the 1869 Census, I found my great-grandmother's
fg>>> brother but was unable to make a copy and scan it in. His
fg>>> occupation is listed as what appears to be:
fg>>> "supher" There were no accent marks. Because the initial
fg>>> consonant was difficult to read, I have tried using others
fg>>> besides the "s", such as "f", but cannot find anything like it in
fg>>> my dictionary.
fg>>>
fg>>> I'm hoping that somebody can help me with a translation.

This SIG (h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
To post a message to this mailing list please address it to
<h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>

Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/ , and remember the
H-SIG message archives at
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Hungary SIG #Hungary Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Yiddish in Hungary #hungary

Herb Meyers <herbiem@...>
 

My father came >from Maramaros County, the part that is now Ukraine. The
language of his family was Yiddish although he knew a little Hungarian.
My mother came >from Bereg County. Her primary language was Hungarian
but she knew a little Yiddish. Both my mother's and father's family were
Orthodox. After they married in the U.S. the both became proficient in
each other's language as well as in English.

Researching:

MEYEROWITZ/MAJEROVIC: Lipsha, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
BERMAN: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Botrad/Botragy, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
CHAIMOWITZ/HAYFER: Dragovo/Drahiv/Kovesliget, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)
SOLOMON: Mezokaszony/Kosoni, Ukraine (formerly Hungary)

Herb Meyers
Boulder, CO
herbiem@mindspring.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kelemen <m.kel@home.com>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: Yiddish in Hungary


I have found that my Hungarian relatives
do not for the most part speak Yiddish.

Whatever my father knows he learned
here. The son of the rabbi >from his town,
does speak Yiddish. So orthodoxy might
have been the key factor.

Avrumy Heschel mentioned that his interviews
were for the "YIVO Zamler Project").

Would they be interested in any of our
interviews with our relatives?

Michael Kelemen


This SIG (h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
To post a message to this mailing list please address it to
<h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>

Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/ , and remember
the
H-SIG message archives at
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: h-sig: translation, please #hungary

Victor Feintuch <victor@...>
 

Maybe he was a sopher - a Hebrew scribe. The sofer writes Tefillin, Mezuzos
and Torahs.
Victor

-----Original Message-----
From: tom klein [mailto:tom_klein@tvo.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:33 AM
To: Hungarian SIG
Cc: Faith Gardner
Subject: Re: h-sig: translation, please
Importance: Low


the closest i can guess is "suszter", which means "shoemaker" or "cobbler".

regards,

....... tom klein, toronto

"Faith Gardner" <ragfhg@earthlink.net> wrote:

fg>>> Yesterday in the 1869 Census, I found my great-grandmother's
fg>>> brother but was unable to make a copy and scan it in. His
fg>>> occupation is listed as what appears to be:
fg>>> "supher" There were no accent marks. Because the initial
fg>>> consonant was difficult to read, I have tried using others
fg>>> besides the "s", such as "f", but cannot find anything like it in
fg>>> my dictionary.
fg>>>
fg>>> I'm hoping that somebody can help me with a translation.

This SIG (h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
To post a message to this mailing list please address it to
<h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>

Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/ , and remember the
H-SIG message archives at
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary Kosher H-SIG and Jiddish #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

It seems that tastes are quite different, to be quite honest I preferred
H-SIG as it was in the earlier time, when beside strict genealogy, there
were also some discussion or information of Holocaust, kitchen or
recipes and other and the opinion of the moderator were as separate
contributions and not as comments added to contributions of the members,
but tastes are different. The question is, is it possible to satisfy
both sides by having a
glatt kosher genealogy as well as a bit treffe ones too by marking them
in the subject line, so that it can be filtered out by the majority of
the browser, so the pure genealogists are not offended by trivial
messages. I believe there are no Forum for Hungarian Holocaust related
themes or information. It started sometimes on the ?Magyar Zsido Home
page but in my opinion it was everything but not satisfying.

There were several contributions regarding Yiddish language. I  don't
doubt that many communities with a high rate of the Jewish population
and with professions where you didn't have to deal with non Jews,
Yiddish was important and the language to speak, but as sales or
tradesman with a dominantly not Jewish clientele or a student in
gymnasium you had to speak in Hungary after Trianon
Hungarian. Nobody I knew >from my Mother or Father's family spoke
Yiddish, not even - if I am correct - my aunt who emigrated with her
husband in 1934 to Israel and as I heard they were quite unhappy because
their Ivrit was also very poor. In my hometown with about 50000
inhabitants the Neolog community counted around 1250 the orthodox some
800 persons. A friend >from an orthodox family mentioned (he visited the
gymnasium), that they spoke at
home Hungarian only. It might have been different in smaller orthodox
oriented communities. The only time I missed Yiddish was in
Auschwitz/Birkenau, where as late comers to the sufferings we were not
fully accepted by the earlier inmates - the Hungarian (non
religious) Jews represented the lowest level of the hierarchy -, the
religious ones - even >from Hungary - were better accepted.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Re: * don't throw the first stone #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

Yes, maybe, but isn't all this wonderful e-mail about language, culture,
history, even cooking, particularly when it's accompanied by very human
personal family stories, even more human and scintillating...and more,
importantly, related to Hungarian genealogy and family history. Wonderful
e-mails...making up for the lack of them just a few days ago!

Appreciatively,

Faith


[Original Message]
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: 4/4/01 1:43:58 AM
Subject: * don't throw the first stone

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

<quote>
>| Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:10:27 -0500
>| Subject: H-jewish cooking
>|
>| Can anyone in our wonderful world-wide community give me
the title of a
>| good Hungarian-Jewish cookbook (in English)?? Good food is
definitely part
>| of our heritage, and while we probably all have
hand-written recipes, my
>| daughters are eager to have a real cook book. Sincerely,
>|
>|
>| mod. several months ago we had a scintalling discussion
about Hungarian cooking. You can find the
>| messages for that discussion in the H-sig archives on our
web page www.Jewishgen.org/Hungary.LS
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

This SIG (h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
To post a message to this mailing list please address it to
<h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>

Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/ , and remember the
H-SIG message archives at
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Re: * don't throw the first stone #hungary

farran <farran@...>
 

Bill Farran wrote:

I have a copy of a Jewish-Hungarian cookbook by Zoriaca Herbst-Krausz call "Old Jewish
Dishes" published Ii believe by Corvina(?) . It was printed in Hungary in 1991 by Kner
Printing House , Bekescsaba. It is full of old rcipes.


Hungary SIG #Hungary RE: * don't throw the first stone #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

Yes, maybe, but isn't all this wonderful e-mail about language, culture,
history, even cooking, particularly when it's accompanied by very human
personal family stories, even more human and scintillating...and more,
importantly, related to Hungarian genealogy and family history. Wonderful
e-mails...making up for the lack of them just a few days ago!

Appreciatively,

Faith


[Original Message]
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: 4/4/01 1:43:58 AM
Subject: * don't throw the first stone

To all who wish a strictly kosher H-sig, don't be so quick to throw
the stones on me. This was a thread which circulated recently on this
forum. I feel it very much pertinent, actually this is what makes
this forum more human. Please notice that our dear moderator called
the discussion, which was totally out of the subject of genealogy,
"scintillating".

Ease up folks :-)

<quote>
>| Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:10:27 -0500
>| Subject: H-jewish cooking
>|
>| Can anyone in our wonderful world-wide community give me
the title of a
>| good Hungarian-Jewish cookbook (in English)?? Good food is
definitely part
>| of our heritage, and while we probably all have
hand-written recipes, my
>| daughters are eager to have a real cook book. Sincerely,
>|
>|
>| mod. several months ago we had a scintalling discussion
about Hungarian cooking. You can find the
>| messages for that discussion in the H-sig archives on our
web page www.Jewishgen.org/Hungary.LS
--
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@uol.com.br>
Sao Paulo - Brazil

This SIG (h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org) is hosted by
JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
Visit our home page at http://www.jewishgen.org
To post a message to this mailing list please address it to
<h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>

Visit our website at http://www.jewishgen.org/hungary/ , and remember the
H-SIG message archives at
http://www.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.isa?jg~jgsys~sigspop


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: * don't throw the first stone #hungary

farran <farran@...>
 

Bill Farran wrote:

I have a copy of a Jewish-Hungarian cookbook by Zoriaca Herbst-Krausz call "Old Jewish
Dishes" published Ii believe by Corvina(?) . It was printed in Hungary in 1991 by Kner
Printing House , Bekescsaba. It is full of old rcipes.


Re: Muszikas and Pesach #hungary

PGergay@...
 

In a message dated 4/3/01 10:25:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
korman3@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< but if the wine
is sweet, we skip the sugar or honey. >>

Dear Debbi,

You are obviously a woman with high and discerning standards; because, in my
humble opinion, this is the way it should be done---and this is the way it
was done generally by Jews who were, either German-speaking, or inhabiting
the Carpathian basin (but not by those who lived to the North and East of the
basin ---I suppose they have had a "sweet tooth"...)

It is also obvious that you have excellent tastes/standards in music, too...
Clearly you are not of the school which claims that you have to be of a
certain ethnic heritage to play certain musical pieces well----and >from the
heart... In this country, this has been a matter of a sharp divergence of
opinion, ever since the 19th century, with some folks claiming that you had
to be a Negro (the term used then) to be able to play jazz well. In the 20th
century this argument was, unfortunately, revived with the successful film
in the seventies "The Sting." What gave the impetus to the controversy here
was the contention that the "Ragtime" music in it was also "ripped-off" by
white people. Well, my point is that when a non-Jewish childhood friend of
mine gave me a cassette of Marta Sebestyen and Muzsikas (in this case "z"
comes before the"s" ---sorry, Debbi) performing traditional Hungarian-Jewish
pieces (in Hungarian), I was so moved by the phrasing and pristine beauty of
the songs that it did not even occur to me that none of the performers
happened to be Jewish... (Although the jury is still out as to who can sing
"Szol a Kakas Mar" more mesmerizingly, Marta Sebestyen or Louis
Schonfeld....:-(
Unfortunately, I cannot finish on a happy note. Hungary today, which as a
relatively new democratic country still tries to find its way to treat its
minorities in a fair and civilized manner by according them dignity and
opportunities, still gets lost in adopting those Western principles which are
known here as "diversity." For instance, music teachers are encouraged to
assign to students the preparation and performing of pieces at their
graduation concert, which are in accordance with their ethnic background.
Thus, Gypsy students are usually given one of three famous Gypsy concertos,
Jews are normally assigned Bruch's Kol Nidre---and most
ridiculously----children of Hungary's rapidly increasing Chinese minority are
asked to play a piece of famous Chinese music about the Yang-Tse river (a
favorite of Chairman Mao, whose China the parents of these children
left....). This is, of course, "political correctness" of the worst kind...
My point is that I see a kinship between those who say that you have to be
black to play jazz or ragtime and those who feel that you have to be Jewish
to play Bruch's Kol Nidre. (By the way, Bruch was a non-Jewish German...)
Well, Debbi, you made me meander again....On the other hand, I hope that I
did not embarrass you with my compliments, either. As Mark Twain once said:
"Give me a good compliment and I can live off it for three months." So,
please do not expect a compliment >from me for another three months. I hope
you now feel relieved!

Regards,

Peter A. Gerry
San Francisco, CA


Re: H-sig: language & music #hungary

PGergay@...
 

In a message dated 4/3/01 10:28:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ragfhg@earthlink.net writes:

<<
Did "Jewish" for "mother tongue" mean Hebrew or Yiddish to the census
takers in 1920? Would she have spoken one of them, or was that an
automatic response to "Jewish" on the part of the census taker?
As far as illiteracy, that probably means illiterate in English. At the
time she grew up in Hungary, would she have received any kind of education
at all, or was that only for boys?

Any answers will be helpful...I find this all fascinating. I admire that
very brave woman so much for the life she lived...her descendants have
certainly gone farther and wider than she could have possibly dreamed.

Thanks,

Faith
N.H. >>

Dear Faith,
Before I answer you, let me say that I found your closing sentence
eloquent, moving and felt that it reflects a great deal of understanding on
your part !

Now to your 4 questions/sentences:

First question: No, but please understand that the American
censustaker was probably unfamiliar with any of the foreign languages she
spoke....
Second question-first part: Possibly. (Certainly she could have
understood a smattering of Hebrew; but this is, of course, far >from
"speaking it".)
Second question-second part: Most likely; there are plenty of examples
of this everywhere; in fact, it has a literature of its own.
Third Statement: ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I have written on this subject
extensively---including on this forum-----so, I do not think that I need to
repeat myself.
Fourth question: Very,very unlikely! (What you may have in mind
applies to Jews living in countries other than the Austro-Hungarian Empire).

Regards,

Peter A. Gergay
San Francisco,CA