Date   

Re: Father and son sharing a name #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 2/14/2002 9:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
leah25@netvision.net.il writes:

<< One his tombstone he is called Abram Shmuel GRUZD. One of his sons was
also called Shmuel. That doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I know
European Jews were very careful no to name their children after the living
(certainly not father and son). BTW there seems to be another such case on
my Polish side (father and son named Sholom). >>
==That's a common misunderstanding. In Europe (especially Germany) before
the official adoption of family names, maale Jews were generally known in
civil records by the first name followed by the father's first name. So your
Abram Shmuel GRUZD. was actually Abram son of Shmuel. Very properly, he
named one of his sons in honor of his father Shmuel

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


Re: Father and son sharing a name #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 2/14/2002 10:45:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shlomie@shlomie.net writes:

<< one of them was Shmuel and the other
Shlemiel, or an other name similar. >>

No Jew, since Tzurishadai, named his son Shlemiel (Shlumiel) which
translates roughly as "will never succeed." (Actually, the sone of
Tzurishadai was the prince of one of the 12 tribes on the eve of the
invasion of Canaan).

Michael Bernet, New York


Re: NYC Obituaries, etc. #general

Howard Zakai
 

Genners,

Regarding the thread of NYC Obituaries, I had posted a message about the use
of the New York Times Index and the Personal Name Index for the late
nineteenth century to 1974, >from 1975 to 1996, and to 1999 as a supplement.
It is available at my college, Binghamton University in upstate New York.

I received several messages about a URL for this information. While one
could exist, I am not aware of it and all of my research with the Index has
been with the books. I just wanted to clarify.

Regards,

Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY


LIPCZYK from Bialystok #general

ROBERT WEISS
 

For many years I have been searching for records for my LIFSCHITZ family.
Family lore was that the name in Bialystok was something that sounded like
"lip-chuck". I always assumed that this was an American's interpretation of
the Polish spelling of the family name, e.g. LIPSZYC. After searching
through hundreds of LIPCZYC/LIFCZYC/LIFSZYC, etc records without ever
finding my ancestor Wigdor, I finally hit pay dirt--in the latest posting of
JRI-Poland.

Of the hundreds of records for similarly-sounding surnames mine popped
up--and guess what! My family was the only one that was spelled LIPCZYK
(sounds like "lip-chick". The moral is "Don't assume".

Is there any one else out there looking for LIPCZYKs?

Bob Weiss in Northridge, CA
RWeissJGS@aol.com


Searching for descendents of SCHER from Subotch/Subacius Lithuania #general

Chaim Luria <chaim@...>
 

Four members of the SCHER left Subotch/Subacius Lithuania in 1907 and 1908.
If any of their descendents have information on Subotch please contact me
privately.

Regards,

Chaim Luria
Jerusalem


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Father and son sharing a name #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 2/14/2002 9:56:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
leah25@netvision.net.il writes:

<< One his tombstone he is called Abram Shmuel GRUZD. One of his sons was
also called Shmuel. That doesn't make much sense to me. As far as I know
European Jews were very careful no to name their children after the living
(certainly not father and son). BTW there seems to be another such case on
my Polish side (father and son named Sholom). >>
==That's a common misunderstanding. In Europe (especially Germany) before
the official adoption of family names, maale Jews were generally known in
civil records by the first name followed by the father's first name. So your
Abram Shmuel GRUZD. was actually Abram son of Shmuel. Very properly, he
named one of his sons in honor of his father Shmuel

Michael Bernet, New York

WOLFF (Pfungstadt, Frankfurt/M, Koenigsberg, Amsterdam, N.Carolina); BERNET,
BERNERT, JONDORF(Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg); FEUCHTWANGER
(Schwabach, Hagenbach & Fuerth); KONIGSHOFER (anywhere); BERG, WOLF(F),
(Demmelsdorf & Zeckendorf); Shim`on GUTENSTEIN (Bad Homburg ca 1760);
FRENSDORF/ER (anywhere); MAINZER (Lorsch); anyone in Ermreuth or Floss;
GOLDSCHMIDT (B. Homburg, Hessdorf). ALTMANN (Silesia); TIMMENDORFER


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Father and son sharing a name #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 2/14/2002 10:45:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shlomie@shlomie.net writes:

<< one of them was Shmuel and the other
Shlemiel, or an other name similar. >>

No Jew, since Tzurishadai, named his son Shlemiel (Shlumiel) which
translates roughly as "will never succeed." (Actually, the sone of
Tzurishadai was the prince of one of the 12 tribes on the eve of the
invasion of Canaan).

Michael Bernet, New York


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: NYC Obituaries, etc. #general

Howard Zakai
 

Genners,

Regarding the thread of NYC Obituaries, I had posted a message about the use
of the New York Times Index and the Personal Name Index for the late
nineteenth century to 1974, >from 1975 to 1996, and to 1999 as a supplement.
It is available at my college, Binghamton University in upstate New York.

I received several messages about a URL for this information. While one
could exist, I am not aware of it and all of my research with the Index has
been with the books. I just wanted to clarify.

Regards,

Howie Zakai
Staten Island, NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen LIPCZYK from Bialystok #general

ROBERT WEISS
 

For many years I have been searching for records for my LIFSCHITZ family.
Family lore was that the name in Bialystok was something that sounded like
"lip-chuck". I always assumed that this was an American's interpretation of
the Polish spelling of the family name, e.g. LIPSZYC. After searching
through hundreds of LIPCZYC/LIFCZYC/LIFSZYC, etc records without ever
finding my ancestor Wigdor, I finally hit pay dirt--in the latest posting of
JRI-Poland.

Of the hundreds of records for similarly-sounding surnames mine popped
up--and guess what! My family was the only one that was spelled LIPCZYK
(sounds like "lip-chick". The moral is "Don't assume".

Is there any one else out there looking for LIPCZYKs?

Bob Weiss in Northridge, CA
RWeissJGS@aol.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching for descendents of SCHER from Subotch/Subacius Lithuania #general

Chaim Luria <chaim@...>
 

Four members of the SCHER left Subotch/Subacius Lithuania in 1907 and 1908.
If any of their descendents have information on Subotch please contact me
privately.

Regards,

Chaim Luria
Jerusalem


Re: Translation help requested #galicia

Brock Bierman <repbrock@...>
 

I am looking for some help with research in Hungary, can anyone in Hungary
provide that service

thanks

Brock Bierman

Moderator VK: Please respond directly to Brock if you have suggestions.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Translation help requested #hungary

Brock Bierman <repbrock@...>
 

I am looking for some help with research in Hungary, can anyone in Hungary
provide that service

thanks

Brock Bierman

Moderator VK: Please respond directly to Brock if you have suggestions.


Re: Names #belarus

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

Thanks, Dolph... a quick look at the second of these sites gave me my
Zsani...which Americanized became Jennie!
Faith Gardner
NH


[Original Message]
From: Dolph Klein <kledolph@acpub.duke.edu>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: 2/15/02 2:44:39 AM
Subject: Re: Names

Here are two sites that might help in interpreting names and matching
their

equivalents.
http://www.20000-names.com/
http://www.fam.aust.com/topolcsany/names/
Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Names #hungary

Faith Gardner <ragfhg@...>
 

Thanks, Dolph... a quick look at the second of these sites gave me my
Zsani...which Americanized became Jennie!
Faith Gardner
NH


[Original Message]
From: Dolph Klein <kledolph@acpub.duke.edu>
To: Hungarian SIG <h-sig@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: 2/15/02 2:44:39 AM
Subject: Re: Names

Here are two sites that might help in interpreting names and matching
their

equivalents.
http://www.20000-names.com/
http://www.fam.aust.com/topolcsany/names/
Dolph Klein
Chapel Hill, NC


Re: NAME EQUIVALENTS #hungary

tom klein <tom_klein@...>
 

i always thought "fani" was short for "stefania".

....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: I found the Fani=Fradel, Freida combination in the Sziget Pinkas. All this proves, once again, is that although some combinations are more common than others, people picked the names they liked.

"Alex Miller" <AMiller@strategicanalysis.com> wrote:

Hello Friends,

What are the equivalent formal names of the following: Betti Netti
Jetti Sali Zali Rezi Fani
[snip!]

Moderator VK: Here are a few suggestions.
[snip!]

Fani--Fradel, Frieda


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: NAME EQUIVALENTS #hungary

tom klein <tom_klein@...>
 

i always thought "fani" was short for "stefania".

....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: I found the Fani=Fradel, Freida combination in the Sziget Pinkas. All this proves, once again, is that although some combinations are more common than others, people picked the names they liked.

"Alex Miller" <AMiller@strategicanalysis.com> wrote:

Hello Friends,

What are the equivalent formal names of the following: Betti Netti
Jetti Sali Zali Rezi Fani
[snip!]

Moderator VK: Here are a few suggestions.
[snip!]

Fani--Fradel, Frieda


Re: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

unfortunately, jewishgen's databases aren't very good at hungarian material (d-m soundex searches don't seem to understand hungarian orthography very well), and the given names database isn't any better.

it failed my very first test, "geza", which is a fairly common hungarian name, as well as "zoli", "pista", "bozsi", "rozsi", "janos", lacko", "aladar", "arpad", and of course, "tamas". (it's too late at night to be creative, so i just pulled a couple of familiar names >from amongst the cobwebs...) and yes, jews did have plenty of these non-biblical names.

as for the ones that are represented, "miksa" is given as translating to the yiddish "miksa" (not much help here), and without the english equivalent "maximillian", which i would have expected. likewise, "jeno" shows a yiddish equivalent of "yenne" (?), but doesn't give an english equivalent of "eugene", which i would have expected. the listing for "lajos" lists "layosh" as the hebrew and yiddish names, which doesn't seem right to me, at least not based on my experience. (in my case, "lajos" was "shlomo" in hebrew, and "simon" was "yehoshiyahu", to use just my two gfs for example.)

it would seem to me that this database was created by and for the "usual polish/russian" crowd. sigh...

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: Tom is correct that Esterson's database doesn't work very well for Hungarian names. I recommend the list by Jared Seuss at <http://www.horlacher.org/Hungary/Names.htm>

Subject: Given Names Database
From: Vivian Kahn <VKahn@kmort.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:21:57 -0800
X-Message-Number: 6

For more information on the secular and legal versions of Jewish
names, check out Gerald Esterson's Given Names Data Base at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/>

Using the search feature I was able to find out, for example, that
Netti is a nickname for Netta and that other Yiddish forms of this
name are Nettchen and Nettel.


Re: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

i don't know for certain, but which operating system and which language is tom venetianer using on his computer?

some non-english systems may need extra characters (in addition to standard ascii), and there is no single standard for encoding those extra characters, which can cause confusion and problems.

there may be a preference somewhere to force messages to be sent as plain ascii, but that would have to be set on a case-by-case basis for each different user's configuration - not a fun task, and probably well outside the scope of this list.

a modest suggestion to the moderator: please "bounce" such messages back to the sender whenever you notice them. the senders are the ones best able to fix the message, plus this may encourage them to fix the root of the problem, by finding and changing the appropriate option.


....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: * long shot (correction From: Tom Venetianer
<tom.vene@uol.com.br> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:41:44 -0200
X-Message-Number: 4

It beats me why the JewishGen server "translated" the capital 'F'
into =46. So here are the corrections of the list I sent yesterday:

=46ISCH is FISCH =46elso:zsolcsa is Felso:zsolcsa and =46add is Fadd

Thanks

Moderator VK: This is not an uncommon problem. Can anyone explain?


Re: Hungarian counties #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

the short explanation is that "budapest" is really a city made up of two different cities, originally, "buda" and "pest", separated by the danube river. i believe there was an old jewish community in "obuda", but most of the modern development was in "pest", and people have made the distinction between the two.

the locals usually refer to "pest", except when speaking to foreigners, etc.

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Subject: Re: Hungarian counties From: Chaim Frenkel
<chaimf@pobox.com> Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:16:52 -0500 X-Message-Number:
11

I've also gotten a bit confused about town names. But seeing so many
town names pass by, I've come to the conclusion that the County name
(Megye in Hun.?) or very common prefixes either appended or dropped
from the name.
This makes me occasionally try both versions of a name when searching
on any of the online maps.

Would someone explain, Budapest being refered to as Pest?=20

(As in "he's a Pesti" or "he moved up to Pest")

Chaim Frenkel Brooklyn, NY chaimf@pobox.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Fwd: h-sig digest: February 14, 2002 #hungary

tom klein <bossman@...>
 

unfortunately, jewishgen's databases aren't very good at hungarian material (d-m soundex searches don't seem to understand hungarian orthography very well), and the given names database isn't any better.

it failed my very first test, "geza", which is a fairly common hungarian name, as well as "zoli", "pista", "bozsi", "rozsi", "janos", lacko", "aladar", "arpad", and of course, "tamas". (it's too late at night to be creative, so i just pulled a couple of familiar names >from amongst the cobwebs...) and yes, jews did have plenty of these non-biblical names.

as for the ones that are represented, "miksa" is given as translating to the yiddish "miksa" (not much help here), and without the english equivalent "maximillian", which i would have expected. likewise, "jeno" shows a yiddish equivalent of "yenne" (?), but doesn't give an english equivalent of "eugene", which i would have expected. the listing for "lajos" lists "layosh" as the hebrew and yiddish names, which doesn't seem right to me, at least not based on my experience. (in my case, "lajos" was "shlomo" in hebrew, and "simon" was "yehoshiyahu", to use just my two gfs for example.)

it would seem to me that this database was created by and for the "usual polish/russian" crowd. sigh...

regards,


....... tom klein, toronto

Moderator VK: Tom is correct that Esterson's database doesn't work very well for Hungarian names. I recommend the list by Jared Seuss at <http://www.horlacher.org/Hungary/Names.htm>

Subject: Given Names Database
From: Vivian Kahn <VKahn@kmort.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:21:57 -0800
X-Message-Number: 6

For more information on the secular and legal versions of Jewish
names, check out Gerald Esterson's Given Names Data Base at
<http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/>

Using the search feature I was able to find out, for example, that
Netti is a nickname for Netta and that other Yiddish forms of this
name are Nettchen and Nettel.