Date   

Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic Notice of Resignation #rabbinic

seforimlover
 

Due to differences of opinion, I am hereby submitting
my resignation as Coordinator of RavSIG, effective
immediately.

Yehuda Herskowitz


Ungvar cemetery. #hungary

mimisimon@...
 

Hello Hun-Siggers,
Would anyone know if Jews >from Ordarma, also known
as Jovra (now Storozhnitsa, Ukraine), would be buried
in the Ungvar (Uzhgorod) cemetery? I am interested
because of the mention of the Ungvar cemetery
register. Ordarma, to the best of my knowledge, was a
small village very close to Ungvar.
Regards,
Mimi (Weiss) Simon
Teaneck, NJ


WEISS - Ordarma, Hungary (Storozhnitsa, Ukraine); East
Pittsburgh, North Braddock, McKeesport, and Rankin, PA
ROTH - Olaszliszka, Hungary; Komloska, Hungary; Ft.
Wayne, Ind., East Pittsburgh and Braddock, PA
KLEIN - Keked, Hungary; Turtle Creek, PA
BLASS - Hungary; Youngstown and Sandusky, OH; Mt.
Lebanon, PA
GOLDBERGER - Hungary; Ft. Wayne, Ind.


Notice of Resignation #rabbinic

seforimlover
 

Due to differences of opinion, I am hereby submitting
my resignation as Coordinator of RavSIG, effective
immediately.

Yehuda Herskowitz


Hungary SIG #Hungary Ungvar cemetery. #hungary

mimisimon@...
 

Hello Hun-Siggers,
Would anyone know if Jews >from Ordarma, also known
as Jovra (now Storozhnitsa, Ukraine), would be buried
in the Ungvar (Uzhgorod) cemetery? I am interested
because of the mention of the Ungvar cemetery
register. Ordarma, to the best of my knowledge, was a
small village very close to Ungvar.
Regards,
Mimi (Weiss) Simon
Teaneck, NJ


WEISS - Ordarma, Hungary (Storozhnitsa, Ukraine); East
Pittsburgh, North Braddock, McKeesport, and Rankin, PA
ROTH - Olaszliszka, Hungary; Komloska, Hungary; Ft.
Wayne, Ind., East Pittsburgh and Braddock, PA
KLEIN - Keked, Hungary; Turtle Creek, PA
BLASS - Hungary; Youngstown and Sandusky, OH; Mt.
Lebanon, PA
GOLDBERGER - Hungary; Ft. Wayne, Ind.


Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola #hungary

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman <grosz_chai@...>
 

In respond to Gisselle's message below

Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita
Elemi Iskola
Miskolc
school in Miskolc, Hungary in the year 1932? Or do you
know anybody who
could have been enrolled at that time in this school?
I cannot confirm this but it is very likely that my
father's brother, who must've been 10/11 years old at
the time, was enrolled in the Jewish school in
Miskolc. Was there more than one school?

Do you have any school photographs of 1932 or earlier?
My father must've graduated >from the (Jewish)Gymnasium
(hisghschool equivalent I assume) in 1932. Do you or
anyone in the list have photographs of that time?

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman Springfield, NJ REsearching
Grosz/Miskolc/Tallya/Golop; Ilkovich/Kassa


Hungary SIG #Hungary Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola #hungary

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman <grosz_chai@...>
 

In respond to Gisselle's message below

Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita
Elemi Iskola
Miskolc
school in Miskolc, Hungary in the year 1932? Or do you
know anybody who
could have been enrolled at that time in this school?
I cannot confirm this but it is very likely that my
father's brother, who must've been 10/11 years old at
the time, was enrolled in the Jewish school in
Miskolc. Was there more than one school?

Do you have any school photographs of 1932 or earlier?
My father must've graduated >from the (Jewish)Gymnasium
(hisghschool equivalent I assume) in 1932. Do you or
anyone in the list have photographs of that time?

Viviana Grosz-Gluckman Springfield, NJ REsearching
Grosz/Miskolc/Tallya/Golop; Ilkovich/Kassa


Re: Budapest January 15 1945 #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

I was in Budapest during the period referred to in the h-sig note. I lived=
=20
in a Swedish-protected building, close enough to the Danube River to see=20
the bloody ice-floes on the river and even the nyilas (Hungarian Nazi)=20
thugs driving groups of people down to the river bank. I cannot identify=
=20
any individuals since I was careful not to be found too close to any of=20
these activities. I did go into the city center during late December=20
1944, looking for members of my family who lived on Terez Korut and during=
=20
this escapade I was almost arrested by a gendarme. While the gendarme and=
=20
I were talking in the middle of Terez Korut I glanced at the open gate of a=
=20
house behind which there were many people milling around. They looked like=
=20
people who have been arrested, under guard. The gendarme let me go and I=20
got away. Moments later I found out that the family members I was looking=
=20
for had been taken away in a truck several nights before, and I never found=
=20
them again. I got back to my building and soon after this, probably in=20
the first week of January 1945, I escaped towards the Russian line, a few=20
blocks away, and survived to tell this story. The Pest side of the city=20
was cleared of Germans by Jan. 8, l945. The fighting in Buda went on for=20
weeks. As far as I know, January 15 has no special significance, at least=
=20
not to me.

At 02:00 PM 7/18/2004, bodziony@... wrote:
Dear Genners,

Is anyone of you contemporary witness and survivor of the massacres=
executed
by the Hungarian nyilas troops in Budapest by the time of January 15 1945,
or could someone tell me where I can do some research on what happened on
that day?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some=
Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van =D6n=F6k k=F6z=F6tt olyan tanuja es tulel=F6je a Budapesten 1945 januar=
15.-en a
nyilasok altal t=F6rtent =F6ld=F6klesnek? Vagy megmondhatna valaki hol=
kutathatnek
az ezen a napon t=F6rtentek utan?

Thank you very much,

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Please tell us where you are located. It will help to=20
identify resources that could help with your research.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Budapest January 15 1945 #hungary

Patricia J Weisshaus <patjw28@...>
 

I was in Budapest during the period referred to in the h-sig note. I lived=
=20
in a Swedish-protected building, close enough to the Danube River to see=20
the bloody ice-floes on the river and even the nyilas (Hungarian Nazi)=20
thugs driving groups of people down to the river bank. I cannot identify=
=20
any individuals since I was careful not to be found too close to any of=20
these activities. I did go into the city center during late December=20
1944, looking for members of my family who lived on Terez Korut and during=
=20
this escapade I was almost arrested by a gendarme. While the gendarme and=
=20
I were talking in the middle of Terez Korut I glanced at the open gate of a=
=20
house behind which there were many people milling around. They looked like=
=20
people who have been arrested, under guard. The gendarme let me go and I=20
got away. Moments later I found out that the family members I was looking=
=20
for had been taken away in a truck several nights before, and I never found=
=20
them again. I got back to my building and soon after this, probably in=20
the first week of January 1945, I escaped towards the Russian line, a few=20
blocks away, and survived to tell this story. The Pest side of the city=20
was cleared of Germans by Jan. 8, l945. The fighting in Buda went on for=20
weeks. As far as I know, January 15 has no special significance, at least=
=20
not to me.

At 02:00 PM 7/18/2004, bodziony@... wrote:
Dear Genners,

Is anyone of you contemporary witness and survivor of the massacres=
executed
by the Hungarian nyilas troops in Budapest by the time of January 15 1945,
or could someone tell me where I can do some research on what happened on
that day?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some=
Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van =D6n=F6k k=F6z=F6tt olyan tanuja es tulel=F6je a Budapesten 1945 januar=
15.-en a
nyilasok altal t=F6rtent =F6ld=F6klesnek? Vagy megmondhatna valaki hol=
kutathatnek
az ezen a napon t=F6rtentek utan?

Thank you very much,

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Please tell us where you are located. It will help to=20
identify resources that could help with your research.


*re: Newbie for Hungary #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello Jeff,

The answer for the places you are searching was already given by the moderator. As for the family names you are looking for, they certainly were written in Hungarian the same way you spelled them. Maybe "Riederman" would be spelled "Riderman". "Ornstein" is probably correct but keep in mind that the English 's' in Hungarian is spelled 'sz' and only the English 'sh' is spelled as 's'. But that means that "Ornstein" was the Hungarian correct spelling.

The problem is that after about 1870, in an attempt to assimilate, many (and I stress the word *many*) Jewish Hungarian families *Hungarized* their names. And the changes were *really drastic*. An example: a family previously called "Hellschein" became "Takacs" (== forger). Or a "Kohn" could become "Kovacsos" and so on. Thus it could well be that you won't find your folks unless you discover such family name changes.

Good luck
Tom

At 01:00 -0500 18.07.2004, H-SIG digest wrote:
Subject: Newbie for Hungary
From: "Jeff Malka" <malkajef@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:32:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12

I am at the start of my Hungary research and would like some advice. I am
researching the

RIEDERMAN family of Turia Remete (near Perecin and Uzhorod) and the

ORNSTEIN/ORENSTEIN family of Komoroew (near Szerednye).

Both villages were Hungarian at the beginning of the 20th century and these
families spoke Magyar and listed themselves as Hungarian. Does JewishGen
have useful databases for these shtetlach? Anything useful I should look for
at the Mormons? I unfortunately cannot read Hungarian and one of my early
tasks would obviously need to be to find out what "Riederman" and "Ornstein"
look like when written in Hungarian registers.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated especially where the archives for
these 2 towns would be located.

Thank you.

Jeff Malka
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hungary SIG #Hungary *re: Newbie for Hungary #hungary

Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@...>
 

Hello Jeff,

The answer for the places you are searching was already given by the moderator. As for the family names you are looking for, they certainly were written in Hungarian the same way you spelled them. Maybe "Riederman" would be spelled "Riderman". "Ornstein" is probably correct but keep in mind that the English 's' in Hungarian is spelled 'sz' and only the English 'sh' is spelled as 's'. But that means that "Ornstein" was the Hungarian correct spelling.

The problem is that after about 1870, in an attempt to assimilate, many (and I stress the word *many*) Jewish Hungarian families *Hungarized* their names. And the changes were *really drastic*. An example: a family previously called "Hellschein" became "Takacs" (== forger). Or a "Kohn" could become "Kovacsos" and so on. Thus it could well be that you won't find your folks unless you discover such family name changes.

Good luck
Tom

At 01:00 -0500 18.07.2004, H-SIG digest wrote:
Subject: Newbie for Hungary
From: "Jeff Malka" <malkajef@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:32:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12

I am at the start of my Hungary research and would like some advice. I am
researching the

RIEDERMAN family of Turia Remete (near Perecin and Uzhorod) and the

ORNSTEIN/ORENSTEIN family of Komoroew (near Szerednye).

Both villages were Hungarian at the beginning of the 20th century and these
families spoke Magyar and listed themselves as Hungarian. Does JewishGen
have useful databases for these shtetlach? Anything useful I should look for
at the Mormons? I unfortunately cannot read Hungarian and one of my early
tasks would obviously need to be to find out what "Riederman" and "Ornstein"
look like when written in Hungarian registers.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated especially where the archives for
these 2 towns would be located.

Thank you.

Jeff Malka
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Tom Venetianer <mailto:tom.vene@...>
Sao Paulo - Brazil


Hessisch Lichtenau #hungary

Giselle Bodziony
 

Dear Genners,

Hessisch Lichtenau was a camp which belonged to the concentration camp of
Buchenwald. Does anyone know where I can search for victims and survivors of
that camp in Hessisch Lichtenau?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Hessisch Lichtenau tabor a Buchenwald halaltaborhoz tartozott. Tudja-e
valaki, hol lehet a Hessisch Lichtenau tabor aldozatai es tulelöi utan
kutatni?

I thank you very much for your help.

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Have you checked the JewishGen Holocaust database at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/ ? You can search on names or places.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Hessisch Lichtenau #hungary

Giselle Bodziony
 

Dear Genners,

Hessisch Lichtenau was a camp which belonged to the concentration camp of
Buchenwald. Does anyone know where I can search for victims and survivors of
that camp in Hessisch Lichtenau?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Hessisch Lichtenau tabor a Buchenwald halaltaborhoz tartozott. Tudja-e
valaki, hol lehet a Hessisch Lichtenau tabor aldozatai es tulelöi utan
kutatni?

I thank you very much for your help.

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Have you checked the JewishGen Holocaust database at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/ ? You can search on names or places.


Budapest January 15 1945 #hungary

Giselle Bodziony
 

Dear Genners,

Is anyone of you contemporary witness and survivor of the massacres executed
by the Hungarian nyilas troops in Budapest by the time of January 15 1945,
or could someone tell me where I can do some research on what happened on
that day?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van Önök között olyan tanuja es tulelöje a Budapesten 1945 januar 15.-en a
nyilasok altal törtent öldöklesnek? Vagy megmondhatna valaki hol kutathatnek
az ezen a napon törtentek utan?

Thank you very much,

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Please tell us where you are located. It will help to identify resources that could help with your research.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Budapest January 15 1945 #hungary

Giselle Bodziony
 

Dear Genners,

Is anyone of you contemporary witness and survivor of the massacres executed
by the Hungarian nyilas troops in Budapest by the time of January 15 1945,
or could someone tell me where I can do some research on what happened on
that day?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van Önök között olyan tanuja es tulelöje a Budapesten 1945 januar 15.-en a
nyilasok altal törtent öldöklesnek? Vagy megmondhatna valaki hol kutathatnek
az ezen a napon törtentek utan?

Thank you very much,

Giselle Bodziony

Moderator: Please tell us where you are located. It will help to identify resources that could help with your research.


Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola Miskolc #hungary

Giselle Bodziony
 

Dear Genners,

Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola Miskolc
school in Miskolc, Hungary in the year 1932? Or do you know anybody who
could have been enrolled at that time in this school?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van Önök között valaki aki 1932-be lett az Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi
Iskola-ba Miskolcon beiratva? Vagy tud valaki Önök között valakit aki ebben
az evben ebbe az iskolaba be lett iratva?


Thank you very much for your help,

Giselle Bodziony


Hungary SIG #Hungary Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola Miskolc #hungary

Giselle Bodziony
 

Dear Genners,

Was anyone of you enrolled in the Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi Iskola Miskolc
school in Miskolc, Hungary in the year 1932? Or do you know anybody who
could have been enrolled at that time in this school?

I would like to write the same text in Hungarian too, because some Hungarian
readers in this mailinglist might have limited knowledge of English:

Van Önök között valaki aki 1932-be lett az Erzsebet Izraelita Elemi
Iskola-ba Miskolcon beiratva? Vagy tud valaki Önök között valakit aki ebben
az evben ebbe az iskolaba be lett iratva?


Thank you very much for your help,

Giselle Bodziony


Vicki Blum Vigil Inquiry Re Budapest Address #hungary

John J Kovacs <j.kovacs@...>
 

I am responding to Vicki Blum's inquiry about where
some Budapest addresses are located and how they could
help her in learning about her grandfather. According
to my reading the addresses given are both located on
Sziv utca in the Sixth (VI)District of Budapest called
Terez Varos where the Nyugati Palyaudvar (Western RR
station) is located. I don't know how the addresses
could help her to know more about the grandfather but
here some possiblities:
1. If Blum grandfather lived with Dr. Busch he
probably had to be registered with the police and
those records should give more information about him.

2. If say Mrs Busch was a teacher of GG Blum and the
school where she worked could be found >from police or
other records then the school may (but unlikely) have
records of the GG. (This is a very long shot)

By the way Frank is Feri or could be Ferencz in
Hungarian. But I notice that a brother is called
Ferencz. Are we really sure that GG was an orphan?
Perhaps a very close reading of the letters referred
to could give more clues about the family.
John Kovacs
Michigan


Hungary SIG #Hungary Vicki Blum Vigil Inquiry Re Budapest Address #hungary

John J Kovacs <j.kovacs@...>
 

I am responding to Vicki Blum's inquiry about where
some Budapest addresses are located and how they could
help her in learning about her grandfather. According
to my reading the addresses given are both located on
Sziv utca in the Sixth (VI)District of Budapest called
Terez Varos where the Nyugati Palyaudvar (Western RR
station) is located. I don't know how the addresses
could help her to know more about the grandfather but
here some possiblities:
1. If Blum grandfather lived with Dr. Busch he
probably had to be registered with the police and
those records should give more information about him.

2. If say Mrs Busch was a teacher of GG Blum and the
school where she worked could be found >from police or
other records then the school may (but unlikely) have
records of the GG. (This is a very long shot)

By the way Frank is Feri or could be Ferencz in
Hungarian. But I notice that a brother is called
Ferencz. Are we really sure that GG was an orphan?
Perhaps a very close reading of the letters referred
to could give more clues about the family.
John Kovacs
Michigan


Introduction #hungary

Alex W. Magocsi Jr. <alexander.magocsi@...>
 

I have been lurking here for a short period and now it is time to
introduce myself, or really, my interests.
I have been conducting family history research for approx. 5 years.

My paternal Grandparents, who met and married in the US, were both from
Hungary. My Grandmother, Hani Grosz was born in Nyirbator, my
Grandfather, Stephen (Isvan) Magocsi, was born in Gyulaj-Jovancza.

Last year I visited Gyulaj-Jovancza and was able to examine the church
registration books (Roman Catholic) wherein my Grandfather's birth, and
his parent's births, were recorded. This was quite an accomplishment
since I do not speak Hungarian.

This year I visited Nyirbator with no particular goal other than to get
a feel of the area, to make contact with someone in a local Synagogue
and to perhaps locate a Jewish Cemetery in Nyirbator. Hani Grosz was a
Jew who left Hungary in the early 1900s. Naively I thought I might be
able to discover the burial sites(s) of her parents, Samuel Grosz and
Karolina Grosz, ne Greif.

Locating the cemetery was actually quite easy and once we found the
keeper of the key, my wife and I were able to enter it. It is in
reasonably good shape, however there are stones that need some
rehabilitation and there are some, perhaps many, that are completely
overgrown.
(Upon my return to the US, I have learned that this cemetery is on the
2004 project list of the Heritage Foundation for Preservation of Jewish
Cemeteries. Perhaps they have already begun their work).

Since I do not speak or read Hebrew and 99% of the stones are inscribed
in that language, there was no point in trying to locate specific burial
sites.

I also visited the office of the Synagogue in Nyiregyhaza to see if they
had any records that could be of interests. They do not but recommended
that I contact the archives of the county located in Nyiregyhaza.
I put that off for another trip.

I of course told the people at the office that I had visited the
cemetery in Nyirbator and I asked them if they knew of any effort to
restore and preserve local Jewish cemeteries. The young man answered
that he knew of none and this concerns me. I would think, if a cemetery
is listed for rehabilitation, that the local Synagogue would have been
informed. This does not appear to be the case. Comments welcome.

Regards

Alex Magocsi
York, Maine

Researching:
Magocsi Gyulaj-Jovancza, Tolna County
Grosz Nyirbator, Nyirgyulaj, Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg County
Greif Tulcik, Slovakia; New York City

Moderator: Welcome! H-SIG subscribers can be very helpful but JewishGen has other resources as well. Make sure to check the JewishGen Family Finder and the Family Tree of the Jewish People as well as our fabulous All Hungary Database (AHD).


Hungary SIG #Hungary Introduction #hungary

Alex W. Magocsi Jr. <alexander.magocsi@...>
 

I have been lurking here for a short period and now it is time to
introduce myself, or really, my interests.
I have been conducting family history research for approx. 5 years.

My paternal Grandparents, who met and married in the US, were both from
Hungary. My Grandmother, Hani Grosz was born in Nyirbator, my
Grandfather, Stephen (Isvan) Magocsi, was born in Gyulaj-Jovancza.

Last year I visited Gyulaj-Jovancza and was able to examine the church
registration books (Roman Catholic) wherein my Grandfather's birth, and
his parent's births, were recorded. This was quite an accomplishment
since I do not speak Hungarian.

This year I visited Nyirbator with no particular goal other than to get
a feel of the area, to make contact with someone in a local Synagogue
and to perhaps locate a Jewish Cemetery in Nyirbator. Hani Grosz was a
Jew who left Hungary in the early 1900s. Naively I thought I might be
able to discover the burial sites(s) of her parents, Samuel Grosz and
Karolina Grosz, ne Greif.

Locating the cemetery was actually quite easy and once we found the
keeper of the key, my wife and I were able to enter it. It is in
reasonably good shape, however there are stones that need some
rehabilitation and there are some, perhaps many, that are completely
overgrown.
(Upon my return to the US, I have learned that this cemetery is on the
2004 project list of the Heritage Foundation for Preservation of Jewish
Cemeteries. Perhaps they have already begun their work).

Since I do not speak or read Hebrew and 99% of the stones are inscribed
in that language, there was no point in trying to locate specific burial
sites.

I also visited the office of the Synagogue in Nyiregyhaza to see if they
had any records that could be of interests. They do not but recommended
that I contact the archives of the county located in Nyiregyhaza.
I put that off for another trip.

I of course told the people at the office that I had visited the
cemetery in Nyirbator and I asked them if they knew of any effort to
restore and preserve local Jewish cemeteries. The young man answered
that he knew of none and this concerns me. I would think, if a cemetery
is listed for rehabilitation, that the local Synagogue would have been
informed. This does not appear to be the case. Comments welcome.

Regards

Alex Magocsi
York, Maine

Researching:
Magocsi Gyulaj-Jovancza, Tolna County
Grosz Nyirbator, Nyirgyulaj, Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg County
Greif Tulcik, Slovakia; New York City

Moderator: Welcome! H-SIG subscribers can be very helpful but JewishGen has other resources as well. Make sure to check the JewishGen Family Finder and the Family Tree of the Jewish People as well as our fabulous All Hungary Database (AHD).