Date   

Re: "menye" #hungary

Ervin Varga <ervera@...>
 

Menye = his/her daughter-in-law.
Vera Varga
Princeton NJ

Robert Hanscom wrote:

I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of the
city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals who have
been residing in particular households who are listed as "menye".
<snip>


Re: "menye" #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

common hungarian usage (today) is definitely "his daughter-in-law" (the "e" on the end is a possessive suffix, in keeping with the grammar of the rest of the entry).


....... tom klein, toronto

Robert Hanscom <rodihan@juno.com> write:

I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of
the city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals
who have been residing in particular households who are listed as
"menye". Here are some examples:
[snip!]


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: "menye" #hungary

Ervin Varga <ervera@...>
 

Menye = his/her daughter-in-law.
Vera Varga
Princeton NJ

Robert Hanscom wrote:

I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of the
city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals who have
been residing in particular households who are listed as "menye".
<snip>


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: "menye" #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

common hungarian usage (today) is definitely "his daughter-in-law" (the "e" on the end is a possessive suffix, in keeping with the grammar of the rest of the entry).


....... tom klein, toronto

Robert Hanscom <rodihan@juno.com> write:

I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of
the city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals
who have been residing in particular households who are listed as
"menye". Here are some examples:
[snip!]


Re: Join the Discussion!< #hungary

Sheldon Pivnik <sipivnik@...>
 

For Maureen T Brown,

I too have always enjoyed your helpful & thoughtful comments and have been
a "Lurker" for 4 Yrs. Please don"t allow yourself to accept slights as
anything personal. You are one of the people I read who make my membership
worthwhile.

Carole Pivnik, Miami, Fl.

Researching: SOLOMON---Vienna,, Budapest,Galaz-Romania
GRITCZER ---Krakow
1876,Kezmarok,Huncovce(Hunfalu)Slovakia,Upper East Side, NYC,
MORRISON--Md,- Galuz, Romania =

PIVNIK, Saul-Minsk, Russia


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re:Join the Discussion!< #hungary

Sheldon Pivnik <sipivnik@...>
 

For Maureen T Brown,

I too have always enjoyed your helpful & thoughtful comments and have been
a "Lurker" for 4 Yrs. Please don"t allow yourself to accept slights as
anything personal. You are one of the people I read who make my membership
worthwhile.

Carole Pivnik, Miami, Fl.

Researching: SOLOMON---Vienna,, Budapest,Galaz-Romania
GRITCZER ---Krakow
1876,Kezmarok,Huncovce(Hunfalu)Slovakia,Upper East Side, NYC,
MORRISON--Md,- Galuz, Romania =

PIVNIK, Saul-Minsk, Russia


Re: "menye" #hungary

Robert Neu
 

Menye simply means daughter in law.
Robert

--- Robert Hanscom <rodihan@juno.com> wrote:
I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of
the
city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals who
have
been residing in particular households who are listed as "menye".
<snip>>


Has anyone seen
this
word before and provide me some insight as to its meaning? Thanks
for
your help...

Robert Hanscom
Andover, Massachusetts

Researching (all in Trencin County): TAUBER, TESCHNER, ZERKOWITZ,
KOHN,
FRANKL-KOHN, LAZAR, WILHELM, POPPER, KNOPFELMACHER, SCHLESINGER


Part II May 2004 Visit to Bihor County #hungary

FbandJd@...
 

Dear Fellow Researchers,

With the help of a map I bought at a rest stop/gas station in Hungary of Transylvania our guides were able to find the Jewish cemetery in Ermihalyvfalva/Valea lui Mihai.

After locating the caretaker and telling him the surnames we were searching for we were able to locate several gravestones and memorials of the GLUCK family. Although my great-grandmother Roza GLUCK was born in Szalard, her husband [my great-grandfather] Ferencz GOTTLIEB was born 1834 in Ermihalyfalva. He was the son of Josef Maier GOTTLIEB also born in Ermihalyfalva and Rebekah [surname unknown].

When I explained to the caretaker that I was looking for the GOTTLIEB family he showed me one gravesite and said that the family was still living in town. It then started to rain and we decided to leave but the caretaker told us to stay because the GOTTLIEB widow lived down the street and she was coming to meet us. He then explained that she was the second wife of Carol GOTTLIEB and a Catholic. The first wife got "taken away" and never returned. Carolne GOTTLIEB was very happy to see us. She said that her husband died last year and was buried in the Christian cemetery next to the Jewish cemetery because when she died she wanted to be next to him. Our guide had to translate this for us because neither the caretaker or the widow could speak English.

It was raining quite hard by now and Mrs. GOTTLIEB insisted that we come to her house and meet her family. Both children, a son Gabor who lives in Oradea and a daughter Beatrice who lives in Bucharest are thirtysomething, well educated and English speaking. Their mother disappeared into the kitchen and proceeded to cook. She brought out platters of homemade donuts,fried bread with dill and expresso. It was an amazing visit but unfortunately they didn't know anything about their family tree and couldn't find any family pictures. I will be sending them the research I have on the GOTTLIEB family and perhaps this might jog their memories.

On the way out of town we passed a farmer with a horse drawn carriage. The roads are loaded with potholes and our car ride was just as bumpy as the farmer who was driving his horse and buggy.

The next cemetery we visited was the Jewish cemetery in the town known as Cubulcut [Romanian],Kobolkut[Hungarian] and Szegelhut [German] where my grandfather Mor GOTTLIEB was born in 1871. Everyone in this town spoke Hungarian which made it difficult for our guides to ask for directions since they only spoke Romanian. Finally a man, who was identified as the mayor was able to explain to the guides where the cemetery was. It was a very small and overgrown cemetery right next to a gypsy encampment. There were very few gravestones. One was a memorial to Dr. Beno ROSENFELD, a well known doctor in town who was deported to Auschwitz in 1944. Another name, Sali FERENCZI was a possible first cousin of my grandfather Mor whose cousin Zali GLUCK had married into the FERENCZI family.

We then proceeded to Oradea/Nagyvarad where we spent the night at the Continental Hotel. Part III will be about the Jewish cemeteries in Szalard/Salard,Bihar/ Biharia and Oradea/Nagyvarad.

Best Regards,
Fran Meng
Walnut Creek, CA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: "menye" #hungary

Robert Neu
 

Menye simply means daughter in law.
Robert

--- Robert Hanscom <rodihan@juno.com> wrote:
I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of
the
city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals who
have
been residing in particular households who are listed as "menye".
<snip>>


Has anyone seen
this
word before and provide me some insight as to its meaning? Thanks
for
your help...

Robert Hanscom
Andover, Massachusetts

Researching (all in Trencin County): TAUBER, TESCHNER, ZERKOWITZ,
KOHN,
FRANKL-KOHN, LAZAR, WILHELM, POPPER, KNOPFELMACHER, SCHLESINGER


Hungary SIG #Hungary Part II May 2004 Visit to Bihor County #hungary

FbandJd@...
 

Dear Fellow Researchers,

With the help of a map I bought at a rest stop/gas station in Hungary of Transylvania our guides were able to find the Jewish cemetery in Ermihalyvfalva/Valea lui Mihai.

After locating the caretaker and telling him the surnames we were searching for we were able to locate several gravestones and memorials of the GLUCK family. Although my great-grandmother Roza GLUCK was born in Szalard, her husband [my great-grandfather] Ferencz GOTTLIEB was born 1834 in Ermihalyfalva. He was the son of Josef Maier GOTTLIEB also born in Ermihalyfalva and Rebekah [surname unknown].

When I explained to the caretaker that I was looking for the GOTTLIEB family he showed me one gravesite and said that the family was still living in town. It then started to rain and we decided to leave but the caretaker told us to stay because the GOTTLIEB widow lived down the street and she was coming to meet us. He then explained that she was the second wife of Carol GOTTLIEB and a Catholic. The first wife got "taken away" and never returned. Carolne GOTTLIEB was very happy to see us. She said that her husband died last year and was buried in the Christian cemetery next to the Jewish cemetery because when she died she wanted to be next to him. Our guide had to translate this for us because neither the caretaker or the widow could speak English.

It was raining quite hard by now and Mrs. GOTTLIEB insisted that we come to her house and meet her family. Both children, a son Gabor who lives in Oradea and a daughter Beatrice who lives in Bucharest are thirtysomething, well educated and English speaking. Their mother disappeared into the kitchen and proceeded to cook. She brought out platters of homemade donuts,fried bread with dill and expresso. It was an amazing visit but unfortunately they didn't know anything about their family tree and couldn't find any family pictures. I will be sending them the research I have on the GOTTLIEB family and perhaps this might jog their memories.

On the way out of town we passed a farmer with a horse drawn carriage. The roads are loaded with potholes and our car ride was just as bumpy as the farmer who was driving his horse and buggy.

The next cemetery we visited was the Jewish cemetery in the town known as Cubulcut [Romanian],Kobolkut[Hungarian] and Szegelhut [German] where my grandfather Mor GOTTLIEB was born in 1871. Everyone in this town spoke Hungarian which made it difficult for our guides to ask for directions since they only spoke Romanian. Finally a man, who was identified as the mayor was able to explain to the guides where the cemetery was. It was a very small and overgrown cemetery right next to a gypsy encampment. There were very few gravestones. One was a memorial to Dr. Beno ROSENFELD, a well known doctor in town who was deported to Auschwitz in 1944. Another name, Sali FERENCZI was a possible first cousin of my grandfather Mor whose cousin Zali GLUCK had married into the FERENCZI family.

We then proceeded to Oradea/Nagyvarad where we spent the night at the Continental Hotel. Part III will be about the Jewish cemeteries in Szalard/Salard,Bihar/ Biharia and Oradea/Nagyvarad.

Best Regards,
Fran Meng
Walnut Creek, CA


Re: "menye" #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

meny or menye dtr in law, or the -e ending making it dtr in law of...

In your question the dtr in law is 22 years old, and probably the wife of a
son not living in the household due to any circumstances, like war, death,
divorce etc.
In the list we see the following:

# 43 is 26 years old, therefore could not have a marriage age son.

# 56 is 32 years old, and his wife is 21, so, here again a marriage age son
not likely.

# 64 Jozsef at age 38 could have a son about 18 to 20 years old, but his wife
at 28 makes this unlikely.

Therefore, the old fashioned, old HUngarian useage of the word will give you
the meaning:

"Our younger BROTHER's wife" {Magyar E'rtelmezo" Ke'ziszo'ta'r --- Akademiai
Kiado' Budapest} [O:cse'nknek a felese'ge]

So the solution must be, that each of these three couples had a younger
brother of either the husband or the wife.

The exception to this rule in the case of the 10 year old Matej, Erzsibeth
{Erzse'beth?} is interesting. Could it have been a girl promised as a bride to
be in the future? Or could the age be simply incorrect???!!!

In conclusion, the word meny or menye is not the problem, and the mistake,
wrong or incomplete basic information makes it puzzling.

In # 43 wife of Veiner, Jakab is born as Kraut, Franciska, so it could be
her brother Kraut, is the husband of Barbara, and her married name became
Kraut. Why don't we have a maiden name for her? Or another scenario: Veiner, Jakab
has a younger brother, and he marries his wife' sister Kraut, Jakab. To me
this last variation is the most likely.

Furthermore, keep in mind that Trencs'n County is a border area mixing with
the Slovakian customs and heritage as well.

By the way, you mention POPPER. Is he a member of the composer POPPER?

Good luick in your further puzzle breaking,

Leslie Eloed
California


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: "menye" #hungary

Eloedfamily@...
 

meny or menye dtr in law, or the -e ending making it dtr in law of...

In your question the dtr in law is 22 years old, and probably the wife of a
son not living in the household due to any circumstances, like war, death,
divorce etc.
In the list we see the following:

# 43 is 26 years old, therefore could not have a marriage age son.

# 56 is 32 years old, and his wife is 21, so, here again a marriage age son
not likely.

# 64 Jozsef at age 38 could have a son about 18 to 20 years old, but his wife
at 28 makes this unlikely.

Therefore, the old fashioned, old HUngarian useage of the word will give you
the meaning:

"Our younger BROTHER's wife" {Magyar E'rtelmezo" Ke'ziszo'ta'r --- Akademiai
Kiado' Budapest} [O:cse'nknek a felese'ge]

So the solution must be, that each of these three couples had a younger
brother of either the husband or the wife.

The exception to this rule in the case of the 10 year old Matej, Erzsibeth
{Erzse'beth?} is interesting. Could it have been a girl promised as a bride to
be in the future? Or could the age be simply incorrect???!!!

In conclusion, the word meny or menye is not the problem, and the mistake,
wrong or incomplete basic information makes it puzzling.

In # 43 wife of Veiner, Jakab is born as Kraut, Franciska, so it could be
her brother Kraut, is the husband of Barbara, and her married name became
Kraut. Why don't we have a maiden name for her? Or another scenario: Veiner, Jakab
has a younger brother, and he marries his wife' sister Kraut, Jakab. To me
this last variation is the most likely.

Furthermore, keep in mind that Trencs'n County is a border area mixing with
the Slovakian customs and heritage as well.

By the way, you mention POPPER. Is he a member of the composer POPPER?

Good luick in your further puzzle breaking,

Leslie Eloed
California


Re: "menye" #hungary

George Farkas <gfarkas@...>
 

Hi Bob,

only as "daughter-in-law".

george
George Farkas
Montreal

At 23/07/2004 03:59 AM, Robert Hanscom sent the following message:
<quote>

I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of the
city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals who have
been residing in particular households who are listed as "menye". Here
are some examples:

#43
Veiner, Jakab, 26, magyar, b. Trencsin
neje Kraut, Francisca, 26, magyar, b. Trencsin
fia Marcus, 7
fia Adolf, 4
fia Samu, 2
leanya Rozsa, 5
menye Kraut, Barbara, 18, magyar, b. Trencsin

#56
Kugel, Markus, 32, magyar, b. Trencsin
neje Markstein, Katalin, 21, magyar, b. Szered
fia Adolf, 5
fia Lipot, 2
leanya Jozsefa, 3
menye Matej, Erzsibeth, 10, magyar, b. Nemsova

#64
Katser, Jozsef, 38, magyar, b. Trencsin
neje Blumgrund, Theresz, 28, magyar, b. Trencsin
fia Mojses, 9
fia Bernath, 7
fia Marcus, 1
leanya Johanna, 11
leanya Rosalia, 3
menye Kohn, Rozsa, 22, magyar, b. Bosasz

These are just three households out of several more where this name
appears. I have attempted to find the translation for "menye", but
nothing seems to make sense. In my old Hungarian dictionary, I find
"meny" for "daughter-in-law", and "menyecske" for "young wife" or
"bride". But neither of those appear to apply -- especially in the case
of the 10-year old living in the Kugel household. Has anyone seen this
word before and provide me some insight as to its meaning? Thanks for
your help...

Robert Hanscom
Andover, Massachusetts

Researching (all in Trencin County): TAUBER, TESCHNER, ZERKOWITZ, KOHN,
FRANKL-KOHN, LAZAR, WILHELM, POPPER, KNOPFELMACHER, SCHLESINGER


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: "menye" #hungary

George Farkas <gfarkas@...>
 

Hi Bob,

only as "daughter-in-law".

george
George Farkas
Montreal

At 23/07/2004 03:59 AM, Robert Hanscom sent the following message:
<quote>

I have been working on the transcription of the 1848 Jewish census of the
city of Trencin. In several instances, I have found individuals who have
been residing in particular households who are listed as "menye". Here
are some examples:

#43
Veiner, Jakab, 26, magyar, b. Trencsin
neje Kraut, Francisca, 26, magyar, b. Trencsin
fia Marcus, 7
fia Adolf, 4
fia Samu, 2
leanya Rozsa, 5
menye Kraut, Barbara, 18, magyar, b. Trencsin

#56
Kugel, Markus, 32, magyar, b. Trencsin
neje Markstein, Katalin, 21, magyar, b. Szered
fia Adolf, 5
fia Lipot, 2
leanya Jozsefa, 3
menye Matej, Erzsibeth, 10, magyar, b. Nemsova

#64
Katser, Jozsef, 38, magyar, b. Trencsin
neje Blumgrund, Theresz, 28, magyar, b. Trencsin
fia Mojses, 9
fia Bernath, 7
fia Marcus, 1
leanya Johanna, 11
leanya Rosalia, 3
menye Kohn, Rozsa, 22, magyar, b. Bosasz

These are just three households out of several more where this name
appears. I have attempted to find the translation for "menye", but
nothing seems to make sense. In my old Hungarian dictionary, I find
"meny" for "daughter-in-law", and "menyecske" for "young wife" or
"bride". But neither of those appear to apply -- especially in the case
of the 10-year old living in the Kugel household. Has anyone seen this
word before and provide me some insight as to its meaning? Thanks for
your help...

Robert Hanscom
Andover, Massachusetts

Researching (all in Trencin County): TAUBER, TESCHNER, ZERKOWITZ, KOHN,
FRANKL-KOHN, LAZAR, WILHELM, POPPER, KNOPFELMACHER, SCHLESINGER


Birth records from St. Petersburg and Ostrov #general

J&B Davis <bdavis@...>
 

I would be most grateful for advice as to where most efficiently to
direct a query about a birth in St Petersburg about 1895. An older
sibling was born in Dvinsk, Russia (now Daugavpils, Latvia).

Also, for births in Ostrov, Russia, about 1869.

Beverley Davis
Melbourne, Australia


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Birth records from St. Petersburg and Ostrov #general

J&B Davis <bdavis@...>
 

I would be most grateful for advice as to where most efficiently to
direct a query about a birth in St Petersburg about 1895. An older
sibling was born in Dvinsk, Russia (now Daugavpils, Latvia).

Also, for births in Ostrov, Russia, about 1869.

Beverley Davis
Melbourne, Australia


Re: Halacha/Rape #general

seforimlover
 

When a cohen's wife is raped, the cohen would have to
divorce his wife, so long as there were two valid
witnesses, not a very common scenario. Further, any
child that would be born within 9 months after the
divorce would still be assumed to be the cohen's,
unless clearly proven otherwise.

Best wishes,
Yehuda Herskowitz


--- Dov & Varda <yknow@netvision.net.il> wrote:

The Halacha is different in the case of the rape of a Cohen's wife.
Whether or not the rape victim conceives as a result of rape, she
becomes forbidden to her husband and they must divorce. Any child
conceived would not be considered the Cohen's child. It is quite
possible that a Cohen would privately flout the law to spare his wife
embarassment. This would explain the DNA results. Rape is especially
tragic when a woman is married to a Cohen.

Varda Epstein
Efrat
Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Halacha/Rape #general

seforimlover
 

When a cohen's wife is raped, the cohen would have to
divorce his wife, so long as there were two valid
witnesses, not a very common scenario. Further, any
child that would be born within 9 months after the
divorce would still be assumed to be the cohen's,
unless clearly proven otherwise.

Best wishes,
Yehuda Herskowitz


--- Dov & Varda <yknow@netvision.net.il> wrote:

The Halacha is different in the case of the rape of a Cohen's wife.
Whether or not the rape victim conceives as a result of rape, she
becomes forbidden to her husband and they must divorce. Any child
conceived would not be considered the Cohen's child. It is quite
possible that a Cohen would privately flout the law to spare his wife
embarassment. This would explain the DNA results. Rape is especially
tragic when a woman is married to a Cohen.

Varda Epstein
Efrat
Israel


Re: Jewish Hospital and Orphan Asylum Schools #unitedkingdom

a.laurie
 

Stephen,

The National register of Archives site www.nra.nationalarchives.gov.uk shows
that the records are held by Southampton University Library. This link
should take you to the relevant page
http://www.nra.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/sidocs.asp?SIR=50079

hope this helps,
Anna Laurie (UK)

I'm trying to find any and all information on a Morris Pichols,
born in Cape Colony
(South Africa), age 7, and living at the Jew's (Jewish) Hospital
and Orphan Asylum
Schools, according to the 1901 England and Wales Census.

I am also interested in learning if this school still exist? In
1901, it's
location was Knights Mill Road, West Norwood S.K., in the civil
Parish of Lambeth,
ecclesiastical Parish of St. Luke, borough of Lambeth and ward of
Norwood. If it
does, could someone supply me with a current name and address?
If it doesn't,
can someone tell me where I might find it's records and the
address, so I might
find more out about this boy?


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom RE: Jewish Hospital and Orphan Asylum Schools #unitedkingdom

a.laurie
 

Stephen,

The National register of Archives site www.nra.nationalarchives.gov.uk shows
that the records are held by Southampton University Library. This link
should take you to the relevant page
http://www.nra.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/sidocs.asp?SIR=50079

hope this helps,
Anna Laurie (UK)

I'm trying to find any and all information on a Morris Pichols,
born in Cape Colony
(South Africa), age 7, and living at the Jew's (Jewish) Hospital
and Orphan Asylum
Schools, according to the 1901 England and Wales Census.

I am also interested in learning if this school still exist? In
1901, it's
location was Knights Mill Road, West Norwood S.K., in the civil
Parish of Lambeth,
ecclesiastical Parish of St. Luke, borough of Lambeth and ward of
Norwood. If it
does, could someone supply me with a current name and address?
If it doesn't,
can someone tell me where I might find it's records and the
address, so I might
find more out about this boy?