Date   

Re: The Jewish residents of Czarist St. Petersburg #general

Seth J. Bookey <sethbook@...>
 

In <40B45971.75190507.0B647274@aol.com> HeyJudy123@aol.com writes:

I have noticed some bewildered questions on this forum as to
whether there were Jews in Czarist St. Petersburg, and how they
came to be there.
Now that our learned Naomi Fatouros has entered this discussion,
I feel duty-bound to add that the family of my paternal grandfather,
Jacob SEGAL, had lived in St. Petersburg.
Yes, my paternal grandfather's father had done something that was
considered to be a great service to the Czar and, for this, he had
been awarded a permit to live in Petersburg, known as
the "Czar's own city."
This would have taken place during Alexander's reign,
and Alexander was known for being benign toward his Jewish
subjects. I have read that Alexander's kindness was viewed
with disapproval by some of his top advisors. He famously replied--
and I paraphrase here--"In a century, a third of the Jews
will have left, a third of them will have been murdered, and
a third of them will no longer practice their religion."
Prescient, hmmm?
I think you are confusing your Tsars. Tsar Alexander II was a reformer,
and was assassinated in the 1860s, I believe. Alexander III, father of
Nicholas II, was a reactionary who was oppressive to the Jews, and it was
he or his minister who said they would kill a third, exile a third, and
convert a third of the Jews, to settle the "problem." Why would a reformer
tsar tell one of his detractors, "don't worry, a third of them will be
murdered?" A reformer usually doesn't stand by while a few million are
killed.

So it wasn't Alexander II being prescient, but Alexander III being a
forerunner to Hitler.

--Seth
--
~~~~~
Seth J. Bookey
New York City
sethbook@panix.com


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: The Jewish residents of Czarist St. Petersburg #general

Seth J. Bookey <sethbook@...>
 

In <40B45971.75190507.0B647274@aol.com> HeyJudy123@aol.com writes:

I have noticed some bewildered questions on this forum as to
whether there were Jews in Czarist St. Petersburg, and how they
came to be there.
Now that our learned Naomi Fatouros has entered this discussion,
I feel duty-bound to add that the family of my paternal grandfather,
Jacob SEGAL, had lived in St. Petersburg.
Yes, my paternal grandfather's father had done something that was
considered to be a great service to the Czar and, for this, he had
been awarded a permit to live in Petersburg, known as
the "Czar's own city."
This would have taken place during Alexander's reign,
and Alexander was known for being benign toward his Jewish
subjects. I have read that Alexander's kindness was viewed
with disapproval by some of his top advisors. He famously replied--
and I paraphrase here--"In a century, a third of the Jews
will have left, a third of them will have been murdered, and
a third of them will no longer practice their religion."
Prescient, hmmm?
I think you are confusing your Tsars. Tsar Alexander II was a reformer,
and was assassinated in the 1860s, I believe. Alexander III, father of
Nicholas II, was a reactionary who was oppressive to the Jews, and it was
he or his minister who said they would kill a third, exile a third, and
convert a third of the Jews, to settle the "problem." Why would a reformer
tsar tell one of his detractors, "don't worry, a third of them will be
murdered?" A reformer usually doesn't stand by while a few million are
killed.

So it wasn't Alexander II being prescient, but Alexander III being a
forerunner to Hitler.

--Seth
--
~~~~~
Seth J. Bookey
New York City
sethbook@panix.com


Viewmate 4606: 1867 Moses GOTLIEB death, Szczyczyn, Poland #general

Rebecca Fenning <macguffin317@...>
 

Dear all,

I think I have found my gggg-grandfather Moses GOTLIEB's 1867 death record,
but I am unable to translate it on my own. Could some kind soul help me?

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4606

Moses was >from Rajgrod, Poland and was born ca 1810-1815.

Thank you for your help and please respond privately!

Rebecca Fenning
Los Angeles, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Viewmate 4606: 1867 Moses GOTLIEB death, Szczyczyn, Poland #general

Rebecca Fenning <macguffin317@...>
 

Dear all,

I think I have found my gggg-grandfather Moses GOTLIEB's 1867 death record,
but I am unable to translate it on my own. Could some kind soul help me?

http://data.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/ALL/viewmateview.asp?key=4606

Moses was >from Rajgrod, Poland and was born ca 1810-1815.

Thank you for your help and please respond privately!

Rebecca Fenning
Los Angeles, CA


Additional aids to Romanian Pinkas HaKehillot #general

Joyce Field
 

The Yizkor Book Project is very pleased to announce enhancements to
the Pinkas HaKehillot Romania volumes,
http://www2.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/pinkas_romania/pinkas_romania1.html
and
http://www2.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/pinkas_romania/pinkas_romania2.html .

A few weeks ago when the Table of Contents for these two volumes went
online, we included some additional materials-- a list of towns with
the old name and the current name for each volume.

We soon realized that we also needed a list of Hungarian place names
for Northern Transylvania, and Shalom Bronstein volunteered to
compile this list, which is now an addendum to volume 2 and is
directly accessible at
http://www2.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/pinkas_romania/rom2_00001.html .

We hope that this additional list will be of great value to our
researchers. Many thanks to Shalom.

Joyce Field
jfield@jewishgen.org
Yizkor Book Project Manager


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Additional aids to Romanian Pinkas HaKehillot #general

Joyce Field
 

The Yizkor Book Project is very pleased to announce enhancements to
the Pinkas HaKehillot Romania volumes,
http://www2.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/pinkas_romania/pinkas_romania1.html
and
http://www2.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/pinkas_romania/pinkas_romania2.html .

A few weeks ago when the Table of Contents for these two volumes went
online, we included some additional materials-- a list of towns with
the old name and the current name for each volume.

We soon realized that we also needed a list of Hungarian place names
for Northern Transylvania, and Shalom Bronstein volunteered to
compile this list, which is now an addendum to volume 2 and is
directly accessible at
http://www2.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/pinkas_romania/rom2_00001.html .

We hope that this additional list will be of great value to our
researchers. Many thanks to Shalom.

Joyce Field
jfield@jewishgen.org
Yizkor Book Project Manager


Re: translation of few hungarian words #hungary

Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...>
 

On Tuesday, Aug 24, 2004, at 08:45 Canada/Eastern, tom klein wrote:

first, "falu" means "town"
Mistake. Falu means village.

and "falva" means "town of". "patak" means "stream". these are words
commonly attached to place names, rather than actual places
themselves. there are very, very many hungarian place names containing
"falu" or "patak".
patak= creek, brook, streamlet, rivulet

second, an excellent online resource for hungarian place names is the
radix 1913 gazetteer of hungary at
<http://www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/hn1913.cgi>. you can search by
name or partial name and it will list places along with their county
and district, as well as mapping their location on a map of "greater
hungary". (it includes pre-trianon areas like slovakia and
transylvania.)

"ga'cs orsza'g" refers to the land of galicia.


....... tom klein, toronto


ilona lerman <phililona2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I recently came across the names of two places on my great uncle's
marriage record >from Rozhegy >from 1897(today Ruzomberok Slovakia).
Does anyone know of these places- RASZTOK FALUN and BESENYO PATAK.
Could the latter be the same as Lipto Patak? Also I found on a birth
record the words GACS ORZAG. Does this refer to the "state" of
Galicia? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ilona Lerman Beerot
Yitzchak, IsraelPeter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

www3.sympatico.ca/thidas
peterhidas@yahoo.com


Re: Elmebaj #hungary

David Sencer
 

Would dementia work? That is a common stated cause of death of the aged.

Dave Sencer
Atlanta, GA


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: re: translation of few hungarian words #hungary

Peter I.Hidas <thidas@...>
 

On Tuesday, Aug 24, 2004, at 08:45 Canada/Eastern, tom klein wrote:

first, "falu" means "town"
Mistake. Falu means village.

and "falva" means "town of". "patak" means "stream". these are words
commonly attached to place names, rather than actual places
themselves. there are very, very many hungarian place names containing
"falu" or "patak".
patak= creek, brook, streamlet, rivulet

second, an excellent online resource for hungarian place names is the
radix 1913 gazetteer of hungary at
<http://www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/hn1913.cgi>. you can search by
name or partial name and it will list places along with their county
and district, as well as mapping their location on a map of "greater
hungary". (it includes pre-trianon areas like slovakia and
transylvania.)

"ga'cs orsza'g" refers to the land of galicia.


....... tom klein, toronto


ilona lerman <phililona2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

I recently came across the names of two places on my great uncle's
marriage record >from Rozhegy >from 1897(today Ruzomberok Slovakia).
Does anyone know of these places- RASZTOK FALUN and BESENYO PATAK.
Could the latter be the same as Lipto Patak? Also I found on a birth
record the words GACS ORZAG. Does this refer to the "state" of
Galicia? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Ilona Lerman Beerot
Yitzchak, IsraelPeter
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada

www3.sympatico.ca/thidas
peterhidas@yahoo.com


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Elmebaj #hungary

David Sencer
 

Would dementia work? That is a common stated cause of death of the aged.

Dave Sencer
Atlanta, GA


Another milestone! Another thank you! #france

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and
ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one
central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7
secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an
even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan E. King
JewishGen


French SIG #France Another milestone! Another thank you! #france

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and
ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one
central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7
secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an
even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan E. King
JewishGen


European Day of Jewish Culture #france

Eliane Roos <ljrooschuhl@...>
 

I am sorry for errors made in giving information on that great day
in many European countries, esp France, Germany etc :
it will take place on Sunday September 5th and here is a more convenient
address :

www.jewisheritage.org

do enjoy these opportunities,
Eliane Roos Schuhl Paris





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


French SIG #France European Day of Jewish Culture #france

Eliane Roos <ljrooschuhl@...>
 

I am sorry for errors made in giving information on that great day
in many European countries, esp France, Germany etc :
it will take place on Sunday September 5th and here is a more convenient
address :

www.jewisheritage.org

do enjoy these opportunities,
Eliane Roos Schuhl Paris





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


Re: Cause of Death-Elmebaj #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

based purely on the language (i am not a doctor), i would say that "elmebaj" refers to strictly psychological illness rather than something like stroke.

granted that "psychosis" is not normally fatal, psychiatric problems could cause death, especially where there aren't fancy medical treatments (such as anti-depressants, tranquilizers, intravenous feeding, etc.) available. in addition to intentional suicide, irrational behaviour could also lead to harm such as starvation or other, accidental, injuries.

it also might have been suicide (hungary has had a remarkably high rate), in which case it may have been ascribed to mental illness to avoid stigmatizing the deceased and to soften the blow to the bereaved family.

and it's also important to consider the prejudices of the time, where mental illness was considered a hereditary disease, so the doctor may have been predisposed to finding it in others in the same family. also, if the time period is right, there was considerable interest in mental illness, spurred by the publication (and celebrity) of sigmund freud's work.


....... tom klein, toronto

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com> wrote:


On two of my grandfather's sibling death-records the cause of death
is specified as "Elmebaj" which literally translates to psychosis.

I find it very difficult to accept psychosis as a cause of death
unless the persons in question committed suicide.

Do you know of another possible translation to this cause of death or
any other explanation why would this be written as a cause of death?
Can this mean "stroke" instead of psychosis?


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Cause of Death-Elmebaj #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

based purely on the language (i am not a doctor), i would say that "elmebaj" refers to strictly psychological illness rather than something like stroke.

granted that "psychosis" is not normally fatal, psychiatric problems could cause death, especially where there aren't fancy medical treatments (such as anti-depressants, tranquilizers, intravenous feeding, etc.) available. in addition to intentional suicide, irrational behaviour could also lead to harm such as starvation or other, accidental, injuries.

it also might have been suicide (hungary has had a remarkably high rate), in which case it may have been ascribed to mental illness to avoid stigmatizing the deceased and to soften the blow to the bereaved family.

and it's also important to consider the prejudices of the time, where mental illness was considered a hereditary disease, so the doctor may have been predisposed to finding it in others in the same family. also, if the time period is right, there was considerable interest in mental illness, spurred by the publication (and celebrity) of sigmund freud's work.


....... tom klein, toronto

"Katz, Itzik" <Itzik.Katz@kla-tencor.com> wrote:


On two of my grandfather's sibling death-records the cause of death
is specified as "Elmebaj" which literally translates to psychosis.

I find it very difficult to accept psychosis as a cause of death
unless the persons in question committed suicide.

Do you know of another possible translation to this cause of death or
any other explanation why would this be written as a cause of death?
Can this mean "stroke" instead of psychosis?


Re: Auschwitz database #hungary

Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

The searchable database is part of the 3 Volume documentation, you can
buy in Polish, German or English >from the Museum. A list of the
different publications is in English to be find under
http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/publikacje/index.php?language=EN
A short information about the database/book:

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...

The first part is an interesting general information of the camp by
several historians, I didn't bought the books because it deals with a
period, before the Hungarian massdeportations and more or less with
political prisoners, but to be correct many Jews at that time were
inprisoned as politicals. It might deal also with many >from
Czechoslovakia? Slovakia?. I know some Slovakian woman deported with the
first women transport to Auschwitz already on 26. March 1942, also
people >from Prag sent 1942 to Lodz/Litzmanstadt, they might be included.
So in my opinion (but I can fail) the Jews of Hungary inside the border
of 1942 are not included in the datebase, but some >from greater Hungary
might.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


marcplot schrieb:
> Message text written by "H-SIG"
>
>> The Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum searchable database is
>> now in
>
> English. http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/szukaj/index.php?language=EN<
>
> Thanks Debbie. Even though the database is in English, the "How to
> search" text says to enter place names in German. Does anyoone know
> of an online source of German names for the areas covered by HSIG?
> Perhaps a German map?

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...


Another milestone! Another thank you! #hungary

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7 secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Auschwitz database #hungary

Gábor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

The searchable database is part of the 3 Volume documentation, you can
buy in Polish, German or English >from the Museum. A list of the
different publications is in English to be find under
http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/publikacje/index.php?language=EN
A short information about the database/book:

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...

The first part is an interesting general information of the camp by
several historians, I didn't bought the books because it deals with a
period, before the Hungarian massdeportations and more or less with
political prisoners, but to be correct many Jews at that time were
inprisoned as politicals. It might deal also with many >from
Czechoslovakia? Slovakia?. I know some Slovakian woman deported with the
first women transport to Auschwitz already on 26. March 1942, also
people >from Prag sent 1942 to Lodz/Litzmanstadt, they might be included.
So in my opinion (but I can fail) the Jews of Hungary inside the border
of 1942 are not included in the datebase, but some >from greater Hungary
might.

Best regards
Gabor Hirsch


marcplot schrieb:
> Message text written by "H-SIG"
>
>> The Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum searchable database is
>> now in
>
> English. http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/szukaj/index.php?language=EN<
>
> Thanks Debbie. Even though the database is in English, the "How to
> search" text says to enter place names in German. Does anyoone know
> of an online source of German names for the areas covered by HSIG?
> Perhaps a German map?

Death books >from Auschwitz
Vol. I. Reports
Vol. II Index of Names A - L
Vol. III Index of Names M - Z

This documentation is based on the original records kept by the SS
authorities of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration and death camps.
They contain entries for the death dates of Auschwitz prisoners in the
period >from July 27, 1941 to December 31, 1943. Most of these names of
prisoners who died in Auschwitz, documentated by the SS administration,
have not been published anywhere before and remain a historical source
of unique importance...


Hungary SIG #Hungary Another milestone! Another thank you! #hungary

Susan E. King <susan.king@...>
 

As many of you are aware, the "behind the scenes" team has been working
tirelessly (and endlessly) to implement our Central User Registration
Environment (CURE) and fine-tuning all the elements in this huge project.
CURE will enable us to better manage all our back office systems and ensure integration of all JewishGen programs and projects into one central system.

Would you believe that we are fast approaching the 100,000 mark in user
registrations to JewishGen? An awesome number for a community that started
with slightly more than 100 people and one computer just 18 short years ago!
Now, to enable us to meet the user demand we are running 10 servers in a 24/7 secure co-location facility. It truly boggles the mind!

As busy as we have been behind the scenes, I wanted to take a moment to thank
all the many hundreds of our world wide volunteers who have contributed so
greatly to making JewishGen a vital community and recognized leader in the
field of Jewish genealogy.

We applaud their efforts and their dedication and commitment to this
organization. To those who have blessed us with their financial support
over the years, please know we are ever so grateful! We could not have gotten
where we are today without you.

My personal thanks go out to all the JewishGen Vice Presidents, the SIG
Leaders and the JewishGen Board for their significant contributions,
commitment and dedication to the missions and goals of this organization.
With your help we have achieved yet another milestone in our development. We
look forward to using our new tools to create the building blocks for an even greater and more efficient JewishGen in the months and years to come.

Susan