Date   

administrative district discussion #galicia

Suzan & Ron Wynne <srwynne@...>
 

I hope that Alexander Sharon didn't mean to dismiss the importance of
Galician administrative districts. My goal is to encourage Jewish
genealogists to take these districts very seriously. Regardless of where
the records are located today, they were ORGANIZED by administrative
districts and subdistricts. And, the fact that there were a few minor
changes in the Jewish administrative district structure over the period >from
1877 to 1918, is really not terribly important in the big scheme of things.
Yes, it may be helpful to know that a few towns were reassigned to new
districts over that period of time but, in my view, it is essential that
genealogists seeking information about their Jewish families understand the
administrative structure and how it tied in with the system of self
government (kehilla) that Austria created in Galicia.

The Jewish records were not kept by the administrative structure that
pertained to other denomiations. The excellent gazetteer, "Genealogical
Gazetteer of Galicia," by Brian Lenius, which is frequently mentioned in
this Digest, does not address the system for Jewish records. Those who are
using this gazetteer must keep in mind that because Lenius has said that a
town is in a particular administrative district does not necessarily pertain
to Jewish records.

My book, Finding Your Jewish Roots in GAlicia: A Resource Guide, " (now out
of print but expected to be reissued by Avotaynu in substantially revised
form in 2005), does provide both the correct main administrative and sub
district for Jewish records. If you have a question about the correct
district, I am always happy to provide that information via email. The list
of towns came >from the booklet providing the 1877 regulations. They missed
a few towns but such information for the missing towns is easy for me to
provide.

The Jewish system determined the boundaries of responsibility granted to
each kehilla and each district had responsibility for tax collection,
oversight of kosher butchering and meat, oversight of mikvot and all other
religious organizations including religious schools and the Jewish court
system (Bet Din). The kehilla system predated the 1875 law which set forth
the parameters for Jewish agents to be responsible for the collection and
maintenance of vital records. In 1877, regulations were published along
with a list of every town where Jews were known to live, divided up into
main districts and their subdistricts. These districts were identical to
those making up the kehilla structure. The 1877 regulations were simply
adding onto the duties of the existing kehillot, the new responsibility for
vital record collection and maintenance.

Other religious denominations used the Judicial/Administrative boundaries
for vital record collection. This is why I have cautioned a number of times
that people looking for Jewish records, as opposed to non-Jewish records,
not get confused by the frequent misleading comments in this Digest about
current websites that address issues about records. The forms used may have
been similar and the non-Jewish records were collected and maintained by
agents of the various religious organizations in Galicia. However, my
understanding is that THIS discussion group is for people who are seeking
Jewish records. Let's don't confuse the issues.

I have written about this issue many times and my previous comments are in
the index in the Gesher GAlicia SIG Digest. Anyone who wants to explore the
issue in depth can explore all of those comments.

One last word of reminder: After 1918, the Austrian territory of Galicia
was no longer. Poland took over and created it's own administrative
structure. Yes, the records over time were gathered up, stored in various
different places but we are long past that issue. Miriam Weiner has told us
through Routes to Roots what records still exist, according to the Polish
and Ukrainian governments. I hope that we can move on >from this discussion
about administrative districts to other topics.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD
srwynne@erols.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia administrative district discussion #galicia

Suzan & Ron Wynne <srwynne@...>
 

I hope that Alexander Sharon didn't mean to dismiss the importance of
Galician administrative districts. My goal is to encourage Jewish
genealogists to take these districts very seriously. Regardless of where
the records are located today, they were ORGANIZED by administrative
districts and subdistricts. And, the fact that there were a few minor
changes in the Jewish administrative district structure over the period >from
1877 to 1918, is really not terribly important in the big scheme of things.
Yes, it may be helpful to know that a few towns were reassigned to new
districts over that period of time but, in my view, it is essential that
genealogists seeking information about their Jewish families understand the
administrative structure and how it tied in with the system of self
government (kehilla) that Austria created in Galicia.

The Jewish records were not kept by the administrative structure that
pertained to other denomiations. The excellent gazetteer, "Genealogical
Gazetteer of Galicia," by Brian Lenius, which is frequently mentioned in
this Digest, does not address the system for Jewish records. Those who are
using this gazetteer must keep in mind that because Lenius has said that a
town is in a particular administrative district does not necessarily pertain
to Jewish records.

My book, Finding Your Jewish Roots in GAlicia: A Resource Guide, " (now out
of print but expected to be reissued by Avotaynu in substantially revised
form in 2005), does provide both the correct main administrative and sub
district for Jewish records. If you have a question about the correct
district, I am always happy to provide that information via email. The list
of towns came >from the booklet providing the 1877 regulations. They missed
a few towns but such information for the missing towns is easy for me to
provide.

The Jewish system determined the boundaries of responsibility granted to
each kehilla and each district had responsibility for tax collection,
oversight of kosher butchering and meat, oversight of mikvot and all other
religious organizations including religious schools and the Jewish court
system (Bet Din). The kehilla system predated the 1875 law which set forth
the parameters for Jewish agents to be responsible for the collection and
maintenance of vital records. In 1877, regulations were published along
with a list of every town where Jews were known to live, divided up into
main districts and their subdistricts. These districts were identical to
those making up the kehilla structure. The 1877 regulations were simply
adding onto the duties of the existing kehillot, the new responsibility for
vital record collection and maintenance.

Other religious denominations used the Judicial/Administrative boundaries
for vital record collection. This is why I have cautioned a number of times
that people looking for Jewish records, as opposed to non-Jewish records,
not get confused by the frequent misleading comments in this Digest about
current websites that address issues about records. The forms used may have
been similar and the non-Jewish records were collected and maintained by
agents of the various religious organizations in Galicia. However, my
understanding is that THIS discussion group is for people who are seeking
Jewish records. Let's don't confuse the issues.

I have written about this issue many times and my previous comments are in
the index in the Gesher GAlicia SIG Digest. Anyone who wants to explore the
issue in depth can explore all of those comments.

One last word of reminder: After 1918, the Austrian territory of Galicia
was no longer. Poland took over and created it's own administrative
structure. Yes, the records over time were gathered up, stored in various
different places but we are long past that issue. Miriam Weiner has told us
through Routes to Roots what records still exist, according to the Polish
and Ukrainian governments. I hope that we can move on >from this discussion
about administrative districts to other topics.

Suzan Wynne
Kensington, MD
srwynne@erols.com


Re: Goldsteins, Schonfelds, Berliners #hungary

moishe@langsam.com <moishe@...>
 

Dear Group (and especially Melody, Touvia & Hallie),

This tree seems to have a connection to my research. The
name Chana Mindel was the name of the wife of the Bnei
Yissoschur, R' Hersh Mylech SPIRA (1783 - 1841). They had a
son-in-law named Moshe Schonfeld (1810 - c.1883). It would
seem that your Moshe Schonfeld, born before 1883 (much
before), would not be >from this line, based on common
Ashkenazik naming caonventions of not naming after living
ancestors.

Perhaps, these Schonfleds in your tree were related to the
Schonfelds in my tree. Perhaps further, someone in this
line DID in fact marry into the Bnei Yissochur line
(indicated by the existence of the Chana Mindel name in
your tree), but just not >from the line of Sara Spira
married to Moshe Schonfeld (1810 - c.1883). The Bnei
Yissoschur had 7 known children (see the page at:
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Miller/spira/spira.htm
for more detail). Maybe your line married into one of the
other six lines.

Your thoughts would be welcome.

Moishe Miller
moishe@langsam.com
Brooklyn, NY
On Sat, 21 May 2005 12:25:15 -0700
Hallie Feldman <hallie@twincreeks.net> wrote:
I put a tree >from 1991 on my personal webpage.

If you go to www/twincreeks.net/gallery

under Hallie's albums, there is one marked genealogy.

In the genealogy album, the first three pages are
pictures. Pages 4 and 5 are a tree which Touvia
Goldstein made in 1991. It has birth and death dates and
other information I am not finding elsewhere.

It includes information on the siblings of Moishe
Schonfeld.

Thanks,
Hallie Feldman


Searching in Israel for Hillman Schacherl #hungary

elena schacherl <elenasc@...>
 

Hello to everyone,

While searching the Internet I came across a reference to an Israeli artist
named Jane (Yana) Hillman Schacherl who was born in Vienna in 1913. This is
the same year and place of birth of my great aunt Szeren Schacherl's
daughter.

Can anyone suggest how I might find out if this daughter is still alive and
if so how she might be located? The only white pages for Israel seem to be
available only in Hebrew which I can't read. Jane(Yana) won the Jerusalem
Prize in 1945. Would anyone know if that necessarily means she lived in
Jerusalem?

Would appreciate any help that anyone may be able to provide with this.

Elena Schacherl,

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

SEARCHING: SCHACHERL, STEINFELD, SCHACH, GRUNE, POLLAK


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Goldsteins, Schonfelds, Berliners #hungary

moishe@langsam.com <moishe@...>
 

Dear Group (and especially Melody, Touvia & Hallie),

This tree seems to have a connection to my research. The
name Chana Mindel was the name of the wife of the Bnei
Yissoschur, R' Hersh Mylech SPIRA (1783 - 1841). They had a
son-in-law named Moshe Schonfeld (1810 - c.1883). It would
seem that your Moshe Schonfeld, born before 1883 (much
before), would not be >from this line, based on common
Ashkenazik naming caonventions of not naming after living
ancestors.

Perhaps, these Schonfleds in your tree were related to the
Schonfelds in my tree. Perhaps further, someone in this
line DID in fact marry into the Bnei Yissochur line
(indicated by the existence of the Chana Mindel name in
your tree), but just not >from the line of Sara Spira
married to Moshe Schonfeld (1810 - c.1883). The Bnei
Yissoschur had 7 known children (see the page at:
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Miller/spira/spira.htm
for more detail). Maybe your line married into one of the
other six lines.

Your thoughts would be welcome.

Moishe Miller
moishe@langsam.com
Brooklyn, NY
On Sat, 21 May 2005 12:25:15 -0700
Hallie Feldman <hallie@twincreeks.net> wrote:
I put a tree >from 1991 on my personal webpage.

If you go to www/twincreeks.net/gallery

under Hallie's albums, there is one marked genealogy.

In the genealogy album, the first three pages are
pictures. Pages 4 and 5 are a tree which Touvia
Goldstein made in 1991. It has birth and death dates and
other information I am not finding elsewhere.

It includes information on the siblings of Moishe
Schonfeld.

Thanks,
Hallie Feldman


Hungary SIG #Hungary Searching in Israel for Hillman Schacherl #hungary

elena schacherl <elenasc@...>
 

Hello to everyone,

While searching the Internet I came across a reference to an Israeli artist
named Jane (Yana) Hillman Schacherl who was born in Vienna in 1913. This is
the same year and place of birth of my great aunt Szeren Schacherl's
daughter.

Can anyone suggest how I might find out if this daughter is still alive and
if so how she might be located? The only white pages for Israel seem to be
available only in Hebrew which I can't read. Jane(Yana) won the Jerusalem
Prize in 1945. Would anyone know if that necessarily means she lived in
Jerusalem?

Would appreciate any help that anyone may be able to provide with this.

Elena Schacherl,

Calgary, Alberta, Canada

SEARCHING: SCHACHERL, STEINFELD, SCHACH, GRUNE, POLLAK


WWI field records for the 36th Infantry Division, 61st Brigade, 133rd Field Artillery #general

Dottie Miller
 

A few weeks ago, there were 2 e-mails in the Discussion Group about WWI
field records. Neither applied to the specific time frame or U.S. Army
unit that I am researching. The one I am seeking is the Texas National
Guard >from Camp Bowie, 36th Regiment, 133d Field Artillery.

Your help in directing me to actual filed records may lead us to solving
a family mystery. Also, any information you may have about the recorded
discharge during WWI of mustard-gassed soldiers as being "in good"
condition" would help me with the following mystery.

My maternal great-uncle Lehman (Lee) Dreyfus served in the U.S. Army
during WWI. I have a copy of his discharge papers in which it is stated
that he left service in "good condition." My grandmother who was his
sister and my aunt shared with me the story that Uncle Lee was injured
by mustard gas and never regained his strength and intellectual
capacity. And because of his impaired health, he never again traveled
from his home in Kansas to visit his sisters in Texas. His sisters were
absolutely not the kind of women who held grudges or fought with family
so their version makes sense to me. The granddaughter of Lee, however,
maintains that her grandfather was not impaired at all and sent
discharge papers as proof. Thus, the actual field reports may hold the
key to this mystery.

Lee Dreyfus enlisted July 4, 1917 in Ft. Worth, TX, discharged by Major
A. L. Ward,133rd Field Artillery and by First Lt. William B. Miller,
Supply Company, April 2, 1919. Lee Dreyfus "participated in three naval
battles Aug. 11, 1918, left U.S. July 31, 1918, arrived overseas Aug.
12, 1918. Left France March 9, 1919. Arrived in U.S. A. March 20, 1919."

Thank you in advance for any help that you can provide.

Best regards,

Dottie Miller


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen WWI field records for the 36th Infantry Division, 61st Brigade, 133rd Field Artillery #general

Dottie Miller
 

A few weeks ago, there were 2 e-mails in the Discussion Group about WWI
field records. Neither applied to the specific time frame or U.S. Army
unit that I am researching. The one I am seeking is the Texas National
Guard >from Camp Bowie, 36th Regiment, 133d Field Artillery.

Your help in directing me to actual filed records may lead us to solving
a family mystery. Also, any information you may have about the recorded
discharge during WWI of mustard-gassed soldiers as being "in good"
condition" would help me with the following mystery.

My maternal great-uncle Lehman (Lee) Dreyfus served in the U.S. Army
during WWI. I have a copy of his discharge papers in which it is stated
that he left service in "good condition." My grandmother who was his
sister and my aunt shared with me the story that Uncle Lee was injured
by mustard gas and never regained his strength and intellectual
capacity. And because of his impaired health, he never again traveled
from his home in Kansas to visit his sisters in Texas. His sisters were
absolutely not the kind of women who held grudges or fought with family
so their version makes sense to me. The granddaughter of Lee, however,
maintains that her grandfather was not impaired at all and sent
discharge papers as proof. Thus, the actual field reports may hold the
key to this mystery.

Lee Dreyfus enlisted July 4, 1917 in Ft. Worth, TX, discharged by Major
A. L. Ward,133rd Field Artillery and by First Lt. William B. Miller,
Supply Company, April 2, 1919. Lee Dreyfus "participated in three naval
battles Aug. 11, 1918, left U.S. July 31, 1918, arrived overseas Aug.
12, 1918. Left France March 9, 1919. Arrived in U.S. A. March 20, 1919."

Thank you in advance for any help that you can provide.

Best regards,

Dottie Miller


BOGASLAVSKY family #general

Dottie Miller
 

Recently, there was a posting regarding BOGOSLAVSKY >from Chernigov, Ukraine.
The family included Nokhim Salomon ZURNOVSKY BOGOSLAVSKY, between 1894
and 1896. He had nine sisters and brothers, Liova, David, Boris, Misha, Nuna,
Dvoira, Jifim, ?.

In my family, I have Rueven BOGASLAVSKY, born in 1824, father of
Abraham, Nechama (born 1859), and Dora (born 1864)BOGASLAVSKY in Russia.
Nechama married a man documented to have been been born in, grew up in
and emigrated >from Khmelyuv, Romen County, Poltava Gubernia, Ukraine,
Russia, sometimes spelled " Chmelov." All three BOGASLAVSKY siblings
immigrated to Indianapolis, Indiana, USA, around 1900. All documentation
that I have been able to find so far only indicates that they were >from
"Russia." The family oral history was that the BOGASLAVSKYs came >from
what is now Ukraine.

Here's my question, is there any relationship between the names "Nokhim"
and "Nechama"? I know "Dvoira" and "Dora" are related names but so
common that I can't seriously consider these names as a link between my
BOGASLAVKSY ancestor and those of the recent poster. Other first names
in my BOGASLAVSKY were Louis (used for a few different cousins), Jean,
Leo, Dorothy and Dora, Fannie, Rueben, Beatrice (used twice), Leona, and
Irving.

I welcome any comments about names and about finding the place of birth
of my BOGASLAVSKY family.

Thanks in advance,

Dottie Miller
San Antonio, TX USA

JACOBSON >from Vilna; SEREINSKY >from Russia and Indianapolis,IN; BOGASLAVSKY
from Russia and Indianapolis,IN; UNNER >from Baden,Germany and Portland,OR;
GUGGENHEIMER >from Ihringen and Breisach,Germany and New Orleans, LA;
DREYFUS >from Brumath and Duppigheim,France; MEYER >from Goersdorf,France;
WEIL >from Bretten, Eichstetten in Germany and Washington, LA and Luling, TX


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen BOGASLAVSKY family #general

Dottie Miller
 

Recently, there was a posting regarding BOGOSLAVSKY >from Chernigov, Ukraine.
The family included Nokhim Salomon ZURNOVSKY BOGOSLAVSKY, between 1894
and 1896. He had nine sisters and brothers, Liova, David, Boris, Misha, Nuna,
Dvoira, Jifim, ?.

In my family, I have Rueven BOGASLAVSKY, born in 1824, father of
Abraham, Nechama (born 1859), and Dora (born 1864)BOGASLAVSKY in Russia.
Nechama married a man documented to have been been born in, grew up in
and emigrated >from Khmelyuv, Romen County, Poltava Gubernia, Ukraine,
Russia, sometimes spelled " Chmelov." All three BOGASLAVSKY siblings
immigrated to Indianapolis, Indiana, USA, around 1900. All documentation
that I have been able to find so far only indicates that they were >from
"Russia." The family oral history was that the BOGASLAVSKYs came >from
what is now Ukraine.

Here's my question, is there any relationship between the names "Nokhim"
and "Nechama"? I know "Dvoira" and "Dora" are related names but so
common that I can't seriously consider these names as a link between my
BOGASLAVKSY ancestor and those of the recent poster. Other first names
in my BOGASLAVSKY were Louis (used for a few different cousins), Jean,
Leo, Dorothy and Dora, Fannie, Rueben, Beatrice (used twice), Leona, and
Irving.

I welcome any comments about names and about finding the place of birth
of my BOGASLAVSKY family.

Thanks in advance,

Dottie Miller
San Antonio, TX USA

JACOBSON >from Vilna; SEREINSKY >from Russia and Indianapolis,IN; BOGASLAVSKY
from Russia and Indianapolis,IN; UNNER >from Baden,Germany and Portland,OR;
GUGGENHEIMER >from Ihringen and Breisach,Germany and New Orleans, LA;
DREYFUS >from Brumath and Duppigheim,France; MEYER >from Goersdorf,France;
WEIL >from Bretten, Eichstetten in Germany and Washington, LA and Luling, TX


one more last thing about courtesy #general

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

I'm responding to the comments of people who mention spam & spam filters in
regard to a lack of thank you notes.

In these days of spam, if you are the one originating a request, you can't
use a generic topic like "Hi" or no subject! I get too many spam messages
my spam filter doesn't catch that start that way. You *must* use an
eye-catching subject like "Are our XXX families related?" Or "ancestors >from
YYY" where YYY is the place of interest. *And* if you're asking for
information, turn off your spam blocker!!! I personally rather resent
having to fill out an electronic form so that someone who has asked me for
help can receive my reply. To such an extent that I won't do it any more.

I'm a ShtetLinks coordinator & I use hotmail. Yes, my email's a spam
magnet. But I have my spam settings set fairly loosely anyway, so that
strangers can get to me. It's the price I choose to pay for the opportunity
to make contact with long-lost cousins.

Irene Newhouse


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen one more last thing about courtesy #general

Irene Newhouse <einew@...>
 

I'm responding to the comments of people who mention spam & spam filters in
regard to a lack of thank you notes.

In these days of spam, if you are the one originating a request, you can't
use a generic topic like "Hi" or no subject! I get too many spam messages
my spam filter doesn't catch that start that way. You *must* use an
eye-catching subject like "Are our XXX families related?" Or "ancestors >from
YYY" where YYY is the place of interest. *And* if you're asking for
information, turn off your spam blocker!!! I personally rather resent
having to fill out an electronic form so that someone who has asked me for
help can receive my reply. To such an extent that I won't do it any more.

I'm a ShtetLinks coordinator & I use hotmail. Yes, my email's a spam
magnet. But I have my spam settings set fairly loosely anyway, so that
strangers can get to me. It's the price I choose to pay for the opportunity
to make contact with long-lost cousins.

Irene Newhouse


The Name Dacha #general

hekenvin@...
 

We have a Dacha in our family whose name is a "kinui" or nickname for Hadassah.

Helene Kenvin


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen The Name Dacha #general

hekenvin@...
 

We have a Dacha in our family whose name is a "kinui" or nickname for Hadassah.

Helene Kenvin


information on "missing" relatives #southafrica

The Freedmans <adrianf@...>
 

Dear Sirs
I am trying to find information concerning family of :
Sam Katz (wife Bernice) and his sister Libby( Katz) Wolfson -wife of
Henry -I think
The families lived in Israel, but were originally >from Port Elizabeth SA
Perhaps also >from the O F S The original surname of Sam and Libby was
Freedman(Freeman?) They were first cousins of my father Berel

Adrian Freedman


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica information on "missing" relatives #southafrica

The Freedmans <adrianf@...>
 

Dear Sirs
I am trying to find information concerning family of :
Sam Katz (wife Bernice) and his sister Libby( Katz) Wolfson -wife of
Henry -I think
The families lived in Israel, but were originally >from Port Elizabeth SA
Perhaps also >from the O F S The original surname of Sam and Libby was
Freedman(Freeman?) They were first cousins of my father Berel

Adrian Freedman


estates near Grobin in Kurland #latvia #courland

koshka <koshkacats@...>
 

Hi,

I just received wonderful information >from the Latvian Archives. They said
my Great-Grandfather, David Greenspon, lived near Grobin (which is in
Kurland) for more than 20 years. He first lived in the inn-house Staben of
the Bukamens estate and then moved to estate Mezheneken.

Does anyone have any information or clues about these estates?

It also says he lived in the "Oberbartau volost of the Grobin district" in
one place and "near Grobin" in another.

Was Grobin both a town and a district?

Is Oberbartau another term for Libau?

Thank you very much for any help and suggestions. I'm going to Latvia in
the Spring and trying to get as much information as possible.

Best Regards,

Polina Olsen
koshkacats@comcast.net
Portland, Oregon


Re: Cemeteries in South Africa #southafrica

Beryl. B <balden@...>
 

re Cemeteries in S.A.

Thanks Richard for clarifying this matter and thanks
also for taking the iniative of improving the Cemeteries.
Perhaps when this has been completed you can
do a write-up for our SIG Cemeteries webpage?

Beryl Baleson
Israel.
balden@zahav.net.il


Courland SIG #Courland #Latvia estates near Grobin in Kurland #courland #latvia

koshka <koshkacats@...>
 

Hi,

I just received wonderful information >from the Latvian Archives. They said
my Great-Grandfather, David Greenspon, lived near Grobin (which is in
Kurland) for more than 20 years. He first lived in the inn-house Staben of
the Bukamens estate and then moved to estate Mezheneken.

Does anyone have any information or clues about these estates?

It also says he lived in the "Oberbartau volost of the Grobin district" in
one place and "near Grobin" in another.

Was Grobin both a town and a district?

Is Oberbartau another term for Libau?

Thank you very much for any help and suggestions. I'm going to Latvia in
the Spring and trying to get as much information as possible.

Best Regards,

Polina Olsen
koshkacats@comcast.net
Portland, Oregon


South Africa SIG #SouthAfrica Re: Cemeteries in South Africa #southafrica

Beryl. B <balden@...>
 

re Cemeteries in S.A.

Thanks Richard for clarifying this matter and thanks
also for taking the iniative of improving the Cemeteries.
Perhaps when this has been completed you can
do a write-up for our SIG Cemeteries webpage?

Beryl Baleson
Israel.
balden@zahav.net.il