Date   
LIPOWICZ (from Sokoly, Poland?) #rabbinic

Shelly Crane
 

Dear RavSiggers,

I am new to this SIG and have a question to help me with research on
my great grandfather Yossel LIPOWICZ ben Abram. The family has
always spoken about him being orphaned as a young child. We don't
know where he was born, but am beginning to think it was around the
area of Sokoly in Poland. He had several brothers and sisters and
one was a rabbi who died relatively young.

After losing his parents, Yossel "lived off the land," as my
grandfather told us and made his way to a Yeshiva, which apparently
was well known in the area.

He married Nechama MILEWICZ bat Moszk LIPSYC z Lejbka and finally
settled in Grajewo, in the Lomza gub of Poland. I have not heard of
a Yeshiva in Grajewo, and wondered if in fact, the town he went to
was Lomza.

I would like to learn more about the Yeshiva's in the Lomza region
and if there is a way to research students.

Thank you very much.

Shelly Crane
crzprncess@...

Other surnames I am researching:
Anywhere in Lomza-Suwalki, Poland: DANOWSKI , FAJNTUCH, FRAJND, FROMSEN,
GABELMAN, LANGUS, KALIFOWICZ, LIPOWICZ, LIPSZYC, MILEWICZ, SOKOLOWICZ,
Gabin, Poland BOL; Miedzyrzec Podlaski, Poland: FLASZTERSZTEIN; Ukraine:
BLAS, BLEKHMAN, CHOLODENKO, DICKTER, FELDMAN, FISCHER, GITERMAN,
KVACHINSKIJ/KWAIT, LEFELMAN, LIPOVETSKY, MEZHERITZKY, OSCHERANKO,
PETROVSKIJ, SHAPIRA, SHIFFMAN,

Rabbinic Genealogy SIG #Rabbinic LIPOWICZ (from Sokoly, Poland?) #rabbinic

Shelly Crane
 

Dear RavSiggers,

I am new to this SIG and have a question to help me with research on
my great grandfather Yossel LIPOWICZ ben Abram. The family has
always spoken about him being orphaned as a young child. We don't
know where he was born, but am beginning to think it was around the
area of Sokoly in Poland. He had several brothers and sisters and
one was a rabbi who died relatively young.

After losing his parents, Yossel "lived off the land," as my
grandfather told us and made his way to a Yeshiva, which apparently
was well known in the area.

He married Nechama MILEWICZ bat Moszk LIPSYC z Lejbka and finally
settled in Grajewo, in the Lomza gub of Poland. I have not heard of
a Yeshiva in Grajewo, and wondered if in fact, the town he went to
was Lomza.

I would like to learn more about the Yeshiva's in the Lomza region
and if there is a way to research students.

Thank you very much.

Shelly Crane
crzprncess@...

Other surnames I am researching:
Anywhere in Lomza-Suwalki, Poland: DANOWSKI , FAJNTUCH, FRAJND, FROMSEN,
GABELMAN, LANGUS, KALIFOWICZ, LIPOWICZ, LIPSZYC, MILEWICZ, SOKOLOWICZ,
Gabin, Poland BOL; Miedzyrzec Podlaski, Poland: FLASZTERSZTEIN; Ukraine:
BLAS, BLEKHMAN, CHOLODENKO, DICKTER, FELDMAN, FISCHER, GITERMAN,
KVACHINSKIJ/KWAIT, LEFELMAN, LIPOVETSKY, MEZHERITZKY, OSCHERANKO,
PETROVSKIJ, SHAPIRA, SHIFFMAN,

Re: Jewish records from Trebic & Vienna {and Blattna?} on IGI. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Those of you who have been members of this SIG since
Spring 2005 will remember the amazing story of Joe
Breitenfeld >from Australia who was born in a prison
camp in Siberia to a Viennese father, Hans BREITENFELD
who died shortly after Joe's birth. Joe was searching
for his family all his life, but his initial posting
on Austria-Czech did the trick! I am delighted to
report that many close BREITENFELD members have been
found and a reunion was
held in Vienna in September. But, as always, there
still remain some mysteries.

I wonder whether Art Spira's query has serendipitously
solved one of them? As a result of Art's query, I have
been investigating the IGI Continental Europe records
of Trebic and Vienna very carefully and have come to
some interesting conclusions. But how about this re
Joe's grandparents, Karl and Karoline?

On 7 June 2005 I wrote to the SIG: Family of Karl
BREITENFELD
Karl [20 May 1854, Richenburg - 14 November 1923,
Vienna] married Karoline POLLAK [2 September 1868,
Trebitsch, Moravia] on 26 Oct 1890 in Vienna. Her
parents were Eduard POLLAK and Minna KRONSTEIN or
KORNSTEIN {difficulty in deciphering the writing!}.

I told Joe it would be hard to produce a POLLAK tree
as there were so many, but - blow me - here is an
Eduard POLLAK >from Trebic in the IGI records [who
would have thought of looking for a POLLAK from
Trebic there?]:

EDUARD POLLAK Male
Birth: 28 MAR 1843 Trebic, Trebic, Czechoslovakia
Parents: Father: David POLLAK Mother: Lena
KOHNBERGEROVA

The dates would fit but it may be a red herring. I do
not think so [see below!]. Then searching for
KOHNBERGEROVA we find Lena's parents as: Lena
KOHNBERGEROVA
Birth: 20 May 1820 Trebic
Father: Marek KOHNBERGER
Mother: Alzbeta Eleanora GOLDSCHMIEDOVA

You will note Alzbeta also has a sister, Josefa.

And then if you look at the Vienna cemetery database
you do indeed find Eduard and Minna POLLAK buried
there at Zentralfriedhof [ZF] Tor IV Group 8 Row 12
Grave 44.

Pollack [sic] Mina aged 83 09.09.1928
Pollak Eduard aged 82 15.07.1925
Pollak Emil aged 67 17.03.1940 - 20.03.1940

I strongly suspect that Eduard and Mina are Joe's
gt-grandparents and Emil is his great-uncle, namely an
unknown younger brother of Joe's grandmother, Karoline
nee POLLAK.

We can even find David POLLAK's details:
Birth: 21 Jan 1814 Trebic
Father: Abraham POLLAK Mother: Sibila BAUEROVA

There is a grave for David at the ZF which might fit
but that would be amazingly lucky:
POLLAK David aged 66 21.05.1880 Tor I Group 6 Row 1
Grave 10.

So we now hopefully have got as far back as Joe's
gtgtgt grandfather Abraham Pollak. All this should be
cross-checked with the original archival documents for
confirmation.

I have followed up other family names >from Trebic
during the day and so far have come up with this list:


ABELES BACHRACH BAECKOVA BAUER BAUEROVA FUERSTOVA
GLASER
GLASNER GLASNEROVA GOLDSCHMIEDOVA KLEINOVA
KOHNBERGEROVA
KULKA LEDERER LISSOVA PICK POLLAK SPIRA TAUSSIGOVA
WEITZMANN

There are probably many more, but it needs time and
patience to find them. I hereby retract my statement
of yesterday in which I suggested that this data is
probably based on submitted family trees. I am now
more than ever convinced that some vital records from
Trebic came into the hands of the Mormons and were
transcribed onto the IGI index. Wolf-Erich Eckstein
sent us a posting some years ago where he listed the
Trebic record which were available in Prague.* The
various families I found were not all linked by
marriage and one could not skip >from one record to
another. I only found them by trial and error using
possible Jewish family names >from Trebic.

Unfortunately, one cannot carry out a reverse search
with *Trebic* as a keyword. Trebic seems to have been
singled out for this IGI treatment as PICK and other
common names do not elicit hits for other Moravian
towns. When and where the Trebic records were found is
anyone's guess. Also the IGI records probably
represent just a fraction of an original document.

As for Henry Wellisch's Simon DEUTSCH family
"zustandig in Trebic" - so far I have not found one in
the IGI records for Trebic.

I believe I have also solved the Vienna IGI records
birth riddle.
But that will be for another posting.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Fotnotes:

* 19 Feb 2001: Wolf-Erich Eckstein wrote - All Jewish
records for Bohemia & Moravia are located in Prague,
State Archives. For Trebic: Birth: 1784-1858,
1864-1899, 1901-1905, 1906-1939, 1942-1943 Marriages:
1784-1858, 1865-1939, 1942-1943
Death: 1790-1856, 1862-1938, 1942-1945

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech re: Jewish records from Trebic & Vienna {and Blattna?} on IGI. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Those of you who have been members of this SIG since
Spring 2005 will remember the amazing story of Joe
Breitenfeld >from Australia who was born in a prison
camp in Siberia to a Viennese father, Hans BREITENFELD
who died shortly after Joe's birth. Joe was searching
for his family all his life, but his initial posting
on Austria-Czech did the trick! I am delighted to
report that many close BREITENFELD members have been
found and a reunion was
held in Vienna in September. But, as always, there
still remain some mysteries.

I wonder whether Art Spira's query has serendipitously
solved one of them? As a result of Art's query, I have
been investigating the IGI Continental Europe records
of Trebic and Vienna very carefully and have come to
some interesting conclusions. But how about this re
Joe's grandparents, Karl and Karoline?

On 7 June 2005 I wrote to the SIG: Family of Karl
BREITENFELD
Karl [20 May 1854, Richenburg - 14 November 1923,
Vienna] married Karoline POLLAK [2 September 1868,
Trebitsch, Moravia] on 26 Oct 1890 in Vienna. Her
parents were Eduard POLLAK and Minna KRONSTEIN or
KORNSTEIN {difficulty in deciphering the writing!}.

I told Joe it would be hard to produce a POLLAK tree
as there were so many, but - blow me - here is an
Eduard POLLAK >from Trebic in the IGI records [who
would have thought of looking for a POLLAK from
Trebic there?]:

EDUARD POLLAK Male
Birth: 28 MAR 1843 Trebic, Trebic, Czechoslovakia
Parents: Father: David POLLAK Mother: Lena
KOHNBERGEROVA

The dates would fit but it may be a red herring. I do
not think so [see below!]. Then searching for
KOHNBERGEROVA we find Lena's parents as: Lena
KOHNBERGEROVA
Birth: 20 May 1820 Trebic
Father: Marek KOHNBERGER
Mother: Alzbeta Eleanora GOLDSCHMIEDOVA

You will note Alzbeta also has a sister, Josefa.

And then if you look at the Vienna cemetery database
you do indeed find Eduard and Minna POLLAK buried
there at Zentralfriedhof [ZF] Tor IV Group 8 Row 12
Grave 44.

Pollack [sic] Mina aged 83 09.09.1928
Pollak Eduard aged 82 15.07.1925
Pollak Emil aged 67 17.03.1940 - 20.03.1940

I strongly suspect that Eduard and Mina are Joe's
gt-grandparents and Emil is his great-uncle, namely an
unknown younger brother of Joe's grandmother, Karoline
nee POLLAK.

We can even find David POLLAK's details:
Birth: 21 Jan 1814 Trebic
Father: Abraham POLLAK Mother: Sibila BAUEROVA

There is a grave for David at the ZF which might fit
but that would be amazingly lucky:
POLLAK David aged 66 21.05.1880 Tor I Group 6 Row 1
Grave 10.

So we now hopefully have got as far back as Joe's
gtgtgt grandfather Abraham Pollak. All this should be
cross-checked with the original archival documents for
confirmation.

I have followed up other family names >from Trebic
during the day and so far have come up with this list:


ABELES BACHRACH BAECKOVA BAUER BAUEROVA FUERSTOVA
GLASER
GLASNER GLASNEROVA GOLDSCHMIEDOVA KLEINOVA
KOHNBERGEROVA
KULKA LEDERER LISSOVA PICK POLLAK SPIRA TAUSSIGOVA
WEITZMANN

There are probably many more, but it needs time and
patience to find them. I hereby retract my statement
of yesterday in which I suggested that this data is
probably based on submitted family trees. I am now
more than ever convinced that some vital records from
Trebic came into the hands of the Mormons and were
transcribed onto the IGI index. Wolf-Erich Eckstein
sent us a posting some years ago where he listed the
Trebic record which were available in Prague.* The
various families I found were not all linked by
marriage and one could not skip >from one record to
another. I only found them by trial and error using
possible Jewish family names >from Trebic.

Unfortunately, one cannot carry out a reverse search
with *Trebic* as a keyword. Trebic seems to have been
singled out for this IGI treatment as PICK and other
common names do not elicit hits for other Moravian
towns. When and where the Trebic records were found is
anyone's guess. Also the IGI records probably
represent just a fraction of an original document.

As for Henry Wellisch's Simon DEUTSCH family
"zustandig in Trebic" - so far I have not found one in
the IGI records for Trebic.

I believe I have also solved the Vienna IGI records
birth riddle.
But that will be for another posting.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Fotnotes:

* 19 Feb 2001: Wolf-Erich Eckstein wrote - All Jewish
records for Bohemia & Moravia are located in Prague,
State Archives. For Trebic: Birth: 1784-1858,
1864-1899, 1901-1905, 1906-1939, 1942-1943 Marriages:
1784-1858, 1865-1939, 1942-1943
Death: 1790-1856, 1862-1938, 1942-1945

questions #ciechanow #poland

David J. Buch <david.buch@...>
 

Dear Friends:

Does anyone know the meaning of the following Slavic terms:

1. Skolnik
2. Spektor (or Spentor)
3. Padinchik (or padinchek)

These are professions.

Thanks,
David Buch

buch@...

#Ciechanow #Poland questions #ciechanow #poland

David J. Buch <david.buch@...>
 

Dear Friends:

Does anyone know the meaning of the following Slavic terms:

1. Skolnik
2. Spektor (or Spentor)
3. Padinchik (or padinchek)

These are professions.

Thanks,
David Buch

buch@...

DEUTSCH in Trebic #austria-czech

Henry Wellisch <henry.kelwel@...>
 

I have followed with interest the discussion on Trebitsch and the reason is
as follows. My maternal grandfather Simon DEUTSCH was born in 1855 in Moson
(Wieselburg) in western Hungary, now known as Mosonmagyarovar. His parents
were Jakob DEUTSCH and Therese OESTERREICHER. Simon married my grandmother
in 1883 and he is referred to in the marriage register as Simon DEUTSCH
Junior. I have never been able to find out what "Senior" meant nor anything
about the rest of the DEUTSCH family, except that in some document Simon is
referred to as being "Zustaendig" in Trebitsch, even though he was born in
Hungary.

from this I assume that his father Jakob and perhaps his mother came from
Trebitsch. I checked now the IGI and of course there are many DEUTSCH from
Czechoslovakia, including one Jakob DEUTSCH >from Bohemia, but not one from
Trebitsch. Any comments or recommendation on what else one may do?

Henry Wellisch
Toronto

"Schando" for Alexander #austria-czech

Doug Mason
 

My mother always refers to her brother Alexander (born Vienna, 1909) as
"Schando".

Am I correct in assuming this is a manipulation of the latter portion of
his name to create a term of familiarity?

Is (or was) this name "Schando" common?

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech DEUTSCH in Trebic #austria-czech

Henry Wellisch <henry.kelwel@...>
 

I have followed with interest the discussion on Trebitsch and the reason is
as follows. My maternal grandfather Simon DEUTSCH was born in 1855 in Moson
(Wieselburg) in western Hungary, now known as Mosonmagyarovar. His parents
were Jakob DEUTSCH and Therese OESTERREICHER. Simon married my grandmother
in 1883 and he is referred to in the marriage register as Simon DEUTSCH
Junior. I have never been able to find out what "Senior" meant nor anything
about the rest of the DEUTSCH family, except that in some document Simon is
referred to as being "Zustaendig" in Trebitsch, even though he was born in
Hungary.

from this I assume that his father Jakob and perhaps his mother came from
Trebitsch. I checked now the IGI and of course there are many DEUTSCH from
Czechoslovakia, including one Jakob DEUTSCH >from Bohemia, but not one from
Trebitsch. Any comments or recommendation on what else one may do?

Henry Wellisch
Toronto

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech "Schando" for Alexander #austria-czech

Doug Mason
 

My mother always refers to her brother Alexander (born Vienna, 1909) as
"Schando".

Am I correct in assuming this is a manipulation of the latter portion of
his name to create a term of familiarity?

Is (or was) this name "Schando" common?

Doug Mason
Melbourne
Australia

Re: Jewish records from Trebic & Vienna {and Blattna?} on IGI. #austria-czech

SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

For a detailed discussed of Celia's question (and related others) see my
article in the current issue of AVOTAYNU. It's entitled "Mormon/Jewish
Controversy: An Update."

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy

----- Original Message -----
From: Celia Male <celiamale@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:42:21 -0800 (PST)
I have just come across one of the strangest entries*
on a well -known genealogical internet website
[Mormon].
snip>>>>>>>>>

Re: Jews of Trebic in the IGI #austria-czech

Gary Mokotoff (Optonline) <garymokotoff@...>
 

Finding many Jews >from a given town in the Mormon International Genealogical
Index usually signifies that the Mormon Church acquired Jewish records from
the town and posthumously baptized all the persons. In the case of Trebic, I
searched the Family History Library online catalog and found they have a
book "Jewish monuments in Trebistch" which undoubtedly includes grave stones
that the Church used to extract information about the people.

Gary Mokotoff

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Jewish records from Trebic & Vienna {and Blattna?} on IGI. #austria-czech

SallyannSack <sallyann.sack@...>
 

For a detailed discussed of Celia's question (and related others) see my
article in the current issue of AVOTAYNU. It's entitled "Mormon/Jewish
Controversy: An Update."

Sallyann Amdur Sack, editor
AVOTAYNU, the International Review of Jewish Genealogy

----- Original Message -----
From: Celia Male <celiamale@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:42:21 -0800 (PST)
I have just come across one of the strangest entries*
on a well -known genealogical internet website
[Mormon].
snip>>>>>>>>>

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech RE: Jews of Trebic in the IGI #austria-czech

Gary Mokotoff (Optonline) <garymokotoff@...>
 

Finding many Jews >from a given town in the Mormon International Genealogical
Index usually signifies that the Mormon Church acquired Jewish records from
the town and posthumously baptized all the persons. In the case of Trebic, I
searched the Family History Library online catalog and found they have a
book "Jewish monuments in Trebistch" which undoubtedly includes grave stones
that the Church used to extract information about the people.

Gary Mokotoff

LDS Mysteries #austria-czech

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Hello fellow SIGers;

Having had experience in searching records on the IGI and using LDS
facilities since 1973, let me indicate that there is an explanation: The
"sealing" or "baptism" took place because a descendant or relative of these
people found them and went through the process. Any person who has spent
time in an LDS Library is aware that some volunteers >from that church
regularly extract records and enter the information into the data base, and
that church members are obliged to track their ancestors and collaterals and
bring them "into the faith" retroactively. I understand that the Israeli
government has obtained >from the LDS church a promise that the entry of
names >from Jewish registers and their blanket "baptism" was not to take
place. But I do not know if this prohibition includes direct descendants or
near relatives who are now members of the LDS church. Perhaps someone else
knows this better.

An annoying aspect of using the data bases of the LDS church is that some
persons somehow believe that the entry "Mrs. George Washington" accompanied
by estimated dates is somehow valid or useful. And that researchers would
actually find such information to be useful.

Having said all of the above, and understanding the hurt this causes to
religous Jews, it is still important to understand that the work of the LDS
church in finding and microfilming genealogical data has helped many Jews to
document the existence of their own families.

Peter Bakos
Paris
Researching PODVINEC, GOLDBERG, GLOGE, HAUROWITZ, HAAS

from Mlada Boleslaw/Jung Bunzlau

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech LDS Mysteries #austria-czech

peter bakos <pgbakos@...>
 

Hello fellow SIGers;

Having had experience in searching records on the IGI and using LDS
facilities since 1973, let me indicate that there is an explanation: The
"sealing" or "baptism" took place because a descendant or relative of these
people found them and went through the process. Any person who has spent
time in an LDS Library is aware that some volunteers >from that church
regularly extract records and enter the information into the data base, and
that church members are obliged to track their ancestors and collaterals and
bring them "into the faith" retroactively. I understand that the Israeli
government has obtained >from the LDS church a promise that the entry of
names >from Jewish registers and their blanket "baptism" was not to take
place. But I do not know if this prohibition includes direct descendants or
near relatives who are now members of the LDS church. Perhaps someone else
knows this better.

An annoying aspect of using the data bases of the LDS church is that some
persons somehow believe that the entry "Mrs. George Washington" accompanied
by estimated dates is somehow valid or useful. And that researchers would
actually find such information to be useful.

Having said all of the above, and understanding the hurt this causes to
religous Jews, it is still important to understand that the work of the LDS
church in finding and microfilming genealogical data has helped many Jews to
document the existence of their own families.

Peter Bakos
Paris
Researching PODVINEC, GOLDBERG, GLOGE, HAUROWITZ, HAAS

from Mlada Boleslaw/Jung Bunzlau

Re: Lodz Synagogue #lodz #poland

Ron
 

Dear Nicki,

My Father-in-law lived at 25 Pomorska and told me that he went to a small
"shteeble" type of Shul off of the rear courtyard of the building. He pointed
the location to me when we visited that building during the prior August
commemoration trip.

Unfortunately, I can no longer ask him the name of the Shul, but perhaps it
was at 25 Pomorska.

Ron Brandt
Morristown, NJ

Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Re: Lodz Synagogue #poland #lodz

Ron
 

Dear Nicki,

My Father-in-law lived at 25 Pomorska and told me that he went to a small
"shteeble" type of Shul off of the rear courtyard of the building. He pointed
the location to me when we visited that building during the prior August
commemoration trip.

Unfortunately, I can no longer ask him the name of the Shul, but perhaps it
was at 25 Pomorska.

Ron Brandt
Morristown, NJ

Re: Lodz Synagogue #lodz #poland

Ron
 

Hello All

I'm trying to find the correct spelling and exact location for a pre-war
shul that my grandfather belonged to in Lodz, Poland.

When I heard the name, it sounded like Yar Ochinski and was located on
Pomorska Street. If anyone knows the shul's correct name, spelling and
address, please email me privately. Or if you have research advice or
general information the rest of the group can use, please post for all.

Additional information such the shul's history, if photos survived or are
available online, if any archives survived and other details are greatly
appreciated.

Nicki Chodnoff
Columbus, Ohio
researching ROZENTAL >from Dabie, Lodz and Bialystock; ORCHAN >from Lodz,
Dabie and Poddebice; and PARZENCZEWSKA(SKI) >from Lodz and Ozorkow.

Lodz Area Research Group #Lodz #Poland Re: Lodz Synagogue #lodz #poland

Ron
 

Hello All

I'm trying to find the correct spelling and exact location for a pre-war
shul that my grandfather belonged to in Lodz, Poland.

When I heard the name, it sounded like Yar Ochinski and was located on
Pomorska Street. If anyone knows the shul's correct name, spelling and
address, please email me privately. Or if you have research advice or
general information the rest of the group can use, please post for all.

Additional information such the shul's history, if photos survived or are
available online, if any archives survived and other details are greatly
appreciated.

Nicki Chodnoff
Columbus, Ohio
researching ROZENTAL >from Dabie, Lodz and Bialystock; ORCHAN >from Lodz,
Dabie and Poddebice; and PARZENCZEWSKA(SKI) >from Lodz and Ozorkow.