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Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Jill Whitehead
 

Another important area to bear in mind is the double emigration from Eastern Europe to the UK that took place firstly between about 1860 and 1900, and then the secondary emigration from the UK to USA and Canada during 1904/5/6. This is largely ignored by academic researchers but there was a lot of it.  Those who settled in the UK were encouraged to take out naturalisation papers, but it was not compulsory, and some towns had naturalisation quotas, and it was expensive. For my family, three of my four great grandfathers took out naturalisation, including one who made three attempts before he succeeded (he moved from Hull to Grimsby to do this).   The 4th joined a Naturalisation Society in Manchester, but did not take it any further. In Liverpool, my great grandfather Joseph Servian (Serwianski from Sejny and lake Serwy) took out naturalisation but his brother Barnet Servian later Silverman did not. Barnet's wife died in 1895 and he remarried. In 1905 the UK Government brought in the Aliens Act, which brought in controls for those who were not naturalised, and those who had long resided in the UK knew it was coming, as there had been other attempts to pass this act beforehand.   Barnet and his new wife migrated again from Liverpool to Chicago in 1904 followed by his four grown up, Liverpool born, children in 1905 and 1906, and then the fiancee of one of his sons in 1907. One of the sons then came back to Liverpool in 1912 to marry Joseph's  granddaughter and take her to Detroit (they then went to Toronto). I have found quite a lot of incidences of this happening with other UK families, who have found branches that went onto USA in early 20th century, having long resided in the UK, but were not UK naturalised.

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Re: Pale of Settlement

Vivienne Fleet
 

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 04:28 PM, <assaf.patir@...> wrote:
And what would be the literal translation of the Yiddish term Der t'hum ha-moy-shəv? דער תחום המושב-- 
Vivienne Fleet
United Kingdom researching:
FRYDE / FRIEDE - Kalisz, Poland; Łask, Poland; Sunderland, England
KISSELHOFF - Bol'shiye-Luki, Belarus (aka Velikiye-Luki, Belarus); Vitebsk, Belarus; Daugavpils, Latvia
KAFFEL - Riga, Latvia; South Africa
GERSHOWITZ - Belarus


Buying false papers

YaleZuss@...
 

I've seen all the claims made in the various papers that Barbara Mannlein mentioned, and more, but the specific claims are all factually false, based on fundamental errors in logic, or are the result of methodological problems.  Before accepting the meme about "no involuntary name-changes" please wait for my paper to appear, read it, and think about what it says.  I think you'll realize that there is no basis for rejecting the name-change narratives, when you realize how they came to be.

Just to get you started, read the references in Barbara's message, and you will note that there are lots of claims that the involuntary name-change meme has been disproved repeatedly.  The proofs mentioned in these articles rarely have citations, so you won't be able to find them.  I went looking, and all I found was more claims that the proof is in the literature.  As it happens, I followed the one citation mentioned, to Vincent Cannato's book, back to its source, and found no proof there at all.  I contacted Prof. Cannato, who reported he had not researched this issue.  (His book is actually about how the experience of running Ellis Island established the American approach to bureaucracy.)  There are lots of assumptions made, but even when these assumptions turn out to be correct, they usually don't prove the point.

Readers may also find interesting that while Marian Smith was willing to discuss her role in propagating the "no involuntary name-changes" meme, she didn't answer direct questions about whether she had actually researched this issue or what proof she had on the matter.  And she had seen an early draft of my paper, sent by person or persons unknown, before I communicated with her, so why I was asking these questions was self-evident.

The notion that Inspectors were the agency for the involuntary name-changes is an assumption that has served as a straw-man on this matter.  None of the name-change narratives I collected included a claim that the inspector looked at their ancestor, and proclaimed, "I don't like you, do I'm going to call you Snotflubber," or "I like you, so you get to be Goldman."  Abandon this notion, and you'll see that the case against the narratives consists of basically nothing.  If there really is a case, perhaps someone would be so kind as to make it?

Yale Zussman, PhD


Given Names Database

Deborah Barr
 

Hi All,

I haven't been able to access the Given Names database for a long time - weeks if not months.  Has anyone been able to? Does anyone know what's going on with it?

Deborah Barr
San Francisco


Re: Zeliviansky Slonim - Stavropol

Vladimir Oksman
 

Sherri,
What makes you think I have found them? All info I have about my great-grandfather is from Stavropol records. Included his POB - Slonim etc.
BTW. There are some Slonim records on jewishgen.
BR,
Vlaidmir 

 


Re: Maiming to Avoid the Russian Draft?

Ron Rothenberg
 

My maternal grandfather's left eye was very milky and he was blind in that eye.  

There was more to the motivation than avoiding the draft.   There were "Chuppers," (grabbers, captors, takers) who would kidnap healthy-looking boys and sell them to the army.  Sad to say, some, if not many of the chuppers were Jewish. 

Parents would arrange to maim their boys (cutting achilles tendon to make a limp, poking out an eye, cutting off a finger) in order to make them less valuable to the chuppers.

 

For the most part, boys did not do this to themselves, since Jewish law forbids self-maiming.  There were Fixers who were hired to maim the boys. 

Ron Rothenberg
Belmont, MA, USA
ronrsr@...


Re: Maiming to Avoid the Russian Draft?

Bruce Drake
 

In doing the weekly Yizkor book excerpts for the JewishGen Facebook page, I have come across many chapters about avoiding the Russian draft, including pretending to be crazy. In researching my own finally, my trecords show that he and other family members were assssed fines for not showing up. I am not sure whether they left (1904) before these could be enforced, or if some actually paid the fines to avoid serving. (Cheaper than a finger)


Re: Bad Aarolsen Data Base

Bernard Flam
 

Dear Detectives,
Institutions don't share their data basis instantly at any new change.
Sometimes they share a batch of documents and after, each one add and work its way. 
And I don't speak about copyrights..
Neither they put online all their documents.
As described by Freda, you will not find every data available in USHMM, Yad Vashem, Memorial de la Shoah in Paris or Bad Arolsen : it would be to easy !
So you must understand what each institution can deliver at best for you.
Conclusion : you must search these data basis one after the other and fill each "inquiry form" to be sure to get their full batch of documents according to your own searches.
khavershaft
Bernard


Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

bernerfolk
 

Thank you David!  For whatever reason, I've never been able to find anyone in FS.  I tried mightily for the person who requested the info in this group but finally gave up and went to Ancestry. 

Sherri Venditti



-----Original Message-----
From: doseas via [] <doseas=yahoo.com@[]>
To: bernerfolk <bernerfolk@...>; main <main@...>
Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 12:45 pm
Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Sherri,


The St. Albans lists are definitely on FamilySearch -- I use them there all the time:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/452590

Regards,
David Oseas

Researching:
HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York
KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles 
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York   
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STECKER: New York > Florida
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles  



Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

David Oseas
 

Sherri,

The St. Albans lists are definitely on FamilySearch -- I use them there all the time:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/452590

Regards,
David Oseas

Researching:
HYMAN/HEYMAN/HEIMOWITS/CHAJMOVITS: Zemplen-Dobra, Hungary > New York
KLEIN: Satoraljaujhely (Ujhely), Hungary > New York > Los Angeles
OSEAS/OSIAS/OSIASI/OZIAS: Iasi, Romania > Chicago > Milwaukee > Los Angeles 
SCHECHTER/SHEKTER: Kishinev, Bessarabia > New York   
SHERMAN: Iasi, Romania > New York > Los Angeles
STECKER: New York > Florida
STRUL:  Iasi, Romania > Haifa, Israel
WICHMAN: Syczkowo (Bobruisk), Belarus > Milwaukee > Los Angeles  


Need help with a Russian translation and photo ID, early 1900s. Plus, any thoughts to ID the photo of passengers on a ship

N. Summers
 

I have posted to ViewMate a photograph (#76789) and the reverse side with a handwritten note (#76789). The photograph is of a crowd of (immigrant? ) passengers on a ship. The note is addressed to “Esther”, whom I believe to be my great-aunt Esther Finkelstein; she came to the US from Poland/Ukraine before 1920. 

The note is in good condition but the handwriting is small, so it could  be quite a challenge to read. I have tried to improve the quality of the image but if there’s anything more I can do please let me know.

Thank you

Nancy S. 
Maryland USA

FINKELSTEIN, LUSMAN (Radzivilov, Ukraine) 
BOOKSTEIN/BUCHSTEIN (Ostrog, Poland)
LEAF/LIFSHITZ (Rechitsa)
ALPER/LISS (Ukraine)




ViewMate translation request - Polish #poland

Colin Cohn
 

Please provide a translation >from Polish of the 1922 marriage record of
my relative Mattel GOTTESMAN to Aron Meier GOTTESMANN, who was probably
her half uncle.

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM77811

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Regards,
Colin Cohn
Sydney, Australia

Researching: Bolechow FUCHS, GOTTESMANN, GRUS, KRAUSHAAR, REDLER


Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Jill Whitehead
 

There were various different ports on both the East Coast of the UK and West Coast that were engaged in either North Sea/Baltic or Atlantic shipping respectively. We have already mentioned Hull and Grimsby, which were either side of the Humber estuary on the borders of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.  But there was also Leith, which is still the port for Edinburgh in Scotland. My Brown (formerly Brin) family of Edinburgh travelled from Vishtinetz in Suwalki Gubernia (now Vistytis in Lithuania) to Leith via Sweden (so the family history goes). And some of my lines married other Landsmen who had family who stayed in Sweden, and I link up via DNA with one such family, who came via Hull to Manchester, but had some family who stayed in Sweden. Of my family (who all came from the Suwalki Lomza gubernias in the 1860's and 1870's), one line came direct to Hull and stayed there, one went from Hull to Liverpool (probably with the intention of going to USA but they stayed in Liverpool), one went from Hull to Manchester via Liverpool, and the 4th line went to Leith and then Edinburgh. The Maritime Museums in both Hull and Liverpool are other useful sources of information on emigration and shipping. 

On the West Coast, Liverpool and Glasgow were the main ports, and they went to a variety of different US and Canadian destinations including New York, Boston and Halifax, Nova Scotia. A variety of German, Dutch and Swedish ports were used to travel across the Baltic and North Sea, including Hamburg, Libau, Konigsberg, Rotterdam, Stockholm and others. The reference to Hull Amerika will be to the boat line which used the Hamburg-Hull-Liverpool-USA route.
There were a number of competing lines/routes, especially when steam ships/faster stream ships came in. Hull University is the place that has documented the lines/routes.

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

bernerfolk
 

There are entry records for immigrants who came to the US via Canada.  People were ticketed through to their destination in the US via rail, and in some cases, ferry.  Except for very early in the migration period, the US stationed inspectors in Canada.  There they did the same evaluation on passengers arriving at Canadian ports as they did at US ports. 

Immigrants who passed the inspection/evaluation were given a slip of paper documenting their clearance for transit to the US.  Those who didn't clear were deported directly from Canada.

People who had spent less than a month in Canada presented their arrival 'pass' [my word] when boarding the train for their destination in the US, no pass...no boarding. 

The documents recording their arrival are frequently called the St. Albans files, although they cover most of the US-Canada border and not just people coming through VT.  I have not found them on FS, here's a link to the search page for the main collection on Ancestry (Detroit is separate):
https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/1075/ 

Sherri Venditti
The Berkshires, USA


Re: Pale of Settlement

ROBERT MITCHELL
 

For those of you interested in what the Pale of Settlement during the nineteenth century, see Robert Mitchell's Human Geographies Within the Pale of Settlement: Order and Disorder During the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries, Macmillan-Palgrave, 2018/9


Re: Response re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

rv Kaplan
 

There are no passenger arrival records for immigrants coming from Europe to UK at this time.

Harvey Kaplan
Glasgow, Scotland

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 15:25, Enzo Falco <enzofalco@...> wrote:
I have a relative that traveled from Libau to England and then by train to Liverpool in 1906. Are there passenger records for ships arriving in Hull England in 1906?

Enzo Falco
Belmont, Massachusetts
USA


Re: Zeliviansky Slonim - Stavropol

bernerfolk
 

Vladimir,

Where did you find records for Slonim?

Sherri Venditti
The Berkshires, USA


Re: Response re: Tracking a passenger across the Atlantic through England

Enzo Falco
 

I have a relative that traveled from Libau to England and then by train to Liverpool in 1906. Are there passenger records for ships arriving in Hull England in 1906?

Enzo Falco
Belmont, Massachusetts
USA


Re: Buying false papers

Steve Stein
 

I think every case was different. Our synagogue just this week lost one of our survivors. He was born with the surname Steinberg; at the end of the war, as a de facto leader of a group, he had a pile of exit visas to come to the US. He had one for himself, but one of the young men in his circle did not. So he gave the Steinberg papers to him, and eventually got another set of papers in the name of Blumenfeld, which he used. I don't know if he tracked the progress of the new Mr. Steinberg, but he died and was buried with the surname Blumenfeld.

Steve Stein
Highland Park, NJ


From Maud #austria-czech

mbeer@...
 

Dear friends,
I am 90 years old. I presume you did not know that.
Still reading (4 languages) still using the PC as you see.
With greetings >from Tel Aviv, Maud Mihal Beer, nee Stecklmacher,
born in Prostejov, have been in ghetto Theresienstadt three years - survived!

Maud Beer