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Re: Surname TOTH #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

Toth means slovakian, and the -th is pronounced as if the h wasn't there (not like the english th). some other nationalities that sometimes appear as surnames: Horvath (croatian), Legyel (polish), Nemeth (german).

The h on the end is an anachronism, often used in a surname, but not when used as an adjective using modern hungarian spelling.


....... tom klein, toronto

Laura Steele <lsteele6@juno.com> wrote:
Does anyone know the derivation of the surname of Toth? It apparantly is
not a regular word, I looked it up in my Hungarian dictionary.
Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Surname TOTH #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

Toth means slovakian, and the -th is pronounced as if the h wasn't there (not like the english th). some other nationalities that sometimes appear as surnames: Horvath (croatian), Legyel (polish), Nemeth (german).

The h on the end is an anachronism, often used in a surname, but not when used as an adjective using modern hungarian spelling.


....... tom klein, toronto

Laura Steele <lsteele6@juno.com> wrote:
Does anyone know the derivation of the surname of Toth? It apparantly is
not a regular word, I looked it up in my Hungarian dictionary.
Re: The Hebrew equivalent of Vilmos #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

My only disagreement with this is that "hamechune x" is a bald statement of fact. in the case of a get, the man is available, and can (presumably) provide his jewish name. in that case, if it really is Binyomin/Zeev/Wolf, it is quite understandable to add "hamechune Vilmos" ("called Vilmos") to the end, as a clarification, for the narrow purpose of writing a proper get. in the post-emancipation world, hungarian jews (unlike those in poland/russia) were often known more by their secular names than their jewish names, so the clarification was quite necessary.

But not every Binyomin/Zeev/Wolf was named Vilmos (as an alternative, Farkas Springs to mind immediately, but then again Tivadar is also a well known example).

Any such statistical (anecdotal) links are at best suggestive, so you cannot jump to the conclusion that a given Vilmos had a hebrew name of Binyomin without any documentation.

The linking of Jewish and secular names was almost automatic elsewhere, but i find many more exceptions among hungarian jews. This may be partly due to the popularity of "hungarian" names (like Arpad, Bela, Geza, Zoltan, etc.) for nationalistic reasons, or just "not-too-jewish" names (Adolf, Janos, Pista, Miksa, etc.) for assimilationist reasons. in either case, where there isn't a convenient jewish equivalent, the names can't really "match". (e.g. Geza to Moishe Yaaqov or Erzsebet to Feigele.)

and there may also have been a demographic reason for *not* matching names, namely that family sizes decreased dramatically, limiting the number of children available to commemorate departed ancestors. (I see a little of this in my own names, which came >from 2 different persons, and in my children's names.)


....... tom klein, toronto

"Prof. G. L. Esterson" <jerry@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote:

Judy Floam (>from Baltimore - my birth town!) posted as follows:

"Just a further thought on this question: does the name "vilmos" have a
meaning in Hungarian? And does it have anything to do with wolves?
"Ze'ev" means wolf in Hebrew and the Yiddish-German-English counterparts to
that Hebrew name were often Wolf or William (including my father and one of
my mother's brothers)."


Judy has brought up a very interesting question, to which I can respond as
follows.

In fact, not only did the rabbis specify that the Hungarian secular name
Vilmos was a legal kinui for the two Hebrew names Binyamim and Ze'eyv, but
also they specified that these two Hebrew names also had another *Yiddish*
kinui, Volf. That is, for men having the two names Binyamin and Volf,
their Legal Jewish Name would need to be written as: Binyamin haMechune
Volf. And for Ze'eyv, Ze'eyv haMechune Volf. So, here we see there is an
interesting linkage between the two Hebrew names and the Yiddish name Volf.

Another interesting fact: if you visit the JewishGen web site:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames >

and search for the Hungarian name Vilmos, you will find one listing for
this name by itself, besides the two listings for the name together with
Binyamin and Ze'eyv. And this record for Vilmos alone shows that this
Hungarian secular name is considered to be *equivalent* to the German
secular name Wilhelm and its nickname Willi. Also shown there are
Latin/Latinized names (Villemus and Wilhelmus) which were also *equivalent*
to the Hungarian and German secular names.

The German secular name Wilhelm was a very popular name with Jews
throughout Europe, including Hungary, and some Hungarian Jews substituted
the Hungarian version (Vilmos) of Wilhelm, while others alternatively used
both under different circumstances. Interestingly, the German secular name
William was also widely used throughout Europe, including Hungary, and the
name William was a secular kinui in German-speaking lands (including
Hungary) for many Hebrew names; however, it did not enjoy a *special*
statistical linkage to any specific Hebrew given names in either Germany or
Hungary.

So, Jewish genealogists should draw conclusions >from these
statistical results in doing their research of archival documents.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il
Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Re: The Hebrew equivalent of Vilmos #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

My only disagreement with this is that "hamechune x" is a bald statement of fact. in the case of a get, the man is available, and can (presumably) provide his jewish name. in that case, if it really is Binyomin/Zeev/Wolf, it is quite understandable to add "hamechune Vilmos" ("called Vilmos") to the end, as a clarification, for the narrow purpose of writing a proper get. in the post-emancipation world, hungarian jews (unlike those in poland/russia) were often known more by their secular names than their jewish names, so the clarification was quite necessary.

But not every Binyomin/Zeev/Wolf was named Vilmos (as an alternative, Farkas Springs to mind immediately, but then again Tivadar is also a well known example).

Any such statistical (anecdotal) links are at best suggestive, so you cannot jump to the conclusion that a given Vilmos had a hebrew name of Binyomin without any documentation.

The linking of Jewish and secular names was almost automatic elsewhere, but i find many more exceptions among hungarian jews. This may be partly due to the popularity of "hungarian" names (like Arpad, Bela, Geza, Zoltan, etc.) for nationalistic reasons, or just "not-too-jewish" names (Adolf, Janos, Pista, Miksa, etc.) for assimilationist reasons. in either case, where there isn't a convenient jewish equivalent, the names can't really "match". (e.g. Geza to Moishe Yaaqov or Erzsebet to Feigele.)

and there may also have been a demographic reason for *not* matching names, namely that family sizes decreased dramatically, limiting the number of children available to commemorate departed ancestors. (I see a little of this in my own names, which came >from 2 different persons, and in my children's names.)


....... tom klein, toronto

"Prof. G. L. Esterson" <jerry@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote:

Judy Floam (>from Baltimore - my birth town!) posted as follows:

"Just a further thought on this question: does the name "vilmos" have a
meaning in Hungarian? And does it have anything to do with wolves?
"Ze'ev" means wolf in Hebrew and the Yiddish-German-English counterparts to
that Hebrew name were often Wolf or William (including my father and one of
my mother's brothers)."


Judy has brought up a very interesting question, to which I can respond as
follows.

In fact, not only did the rabbis specify that the Hungarian secular name
Vilmos was a legal kinui for the two Hebrew names Binyamim and Ze'eyv, but
also they specified that these two Hebrew names also had another *Yiddish*
kinui, Volf. That is, for men having the two names Binyamin and Volf,
their Legal Jewish Name would need to be written as: Binyamin haMechune
Volf. And for Ze'eyv, Ze'eyv haMechune Volf. So, here we see there is an
interesting linkage between the two Hebrew names and the Yiddish name Volf.

Another interesting fact: if you visit the JewishGen web site:

< http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames >

and search for the Hungarian name Vilmos, you will find one listing for
this name by itself, besides the two listings for the name together with
Binyamin and Ze'eyv. And this record for Vilmos alone shows that this
Hungarian secular name is considered to be *equivalent* to the German
secular name Wilhelm and its nickname Willi. Also shown there are
Latin/Latinized names (Villemus and Wilhelmus) which were also *equivalent*
to the Hungarian and German secular names.

The German secular name Wilhelm was a very popular name with Jews
throughout Europe, including Hungary, and some Hungarian Jews substituted
the Hungarian version (Vilmos) of Wilhelm, while others alternatively used
both under different circumstances. Interestingly, the German secular name
William was also widely used throughout Europe, including Hungary, and the
name William was a secular kinui in German-speaking lands (including
Hungary) for many Hebrew names; however, it did not enjoy a *special*
statistical linkage to any specific Hebrew given names in either Germany or
Hungary.

So, Jewish genealogists should draw conclusions >from these
statistical results in doing their research of archival documents.

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
jerry@vms.huji.ac.il
Re: Problems with Yad Vashem Website #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

In case this helps others: I was unable to open the "search shoah victims database" (the picture of the little girl) >from the yad vashem home page - clicking anywhere on the picture, or where it said "click here" just didn't do anything. and if you can't get to the search page, you can't look up pages of testimony, etc.

I found that I could get to the database by going to the yad vashem site's search page first (http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/search/index_search.html) - >from there the blue link to "search the central database" at the top of the page works fine. it would seem that in changing the home page, someone forgot to put in the link. (or maybe it just doesn't work correctly on my combination of system and browser?)


....... tom klein, toronto


ps. I reported this problem to yad vashem already.

Vivian Kahn <vkahn@kmort.com> wrote:
Zvi Bernhardt <central.database@yadvashem.org.il> wrote:

On Yom Hashoah, we [Yad Vashem] put up a whole new site. We did this
in order to integrate a Russian interface for the site, a very
important move as we have also started a project to collect Pages of
Testimony among Russian speaking Jews. The project is currently
being carried out in the Ukraine and in Israel.

Like most new sites, the new site has bugs. We have sorted out most
of the bugs, but the site is still not as stable as the site we had
before Yom Hashoah. At this point, most of the time it works fine,
but problems occur every few days. Our computer people are working
hard to solve the problems as quickly as possible.

PLEASE write us at central.database@yadvashem.org.il if you encounter
technical problems with our site. We usually aren't able to answer
you quickly enough to help you, but you help us (and yourself in the
long run) by making sure we know all the problems that exist.

Zvi Bernhardt
Yad Vashem
central.database@yadvashem.org.il
Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Problems with Yad Vashem Website #hungary

tom klein <h-sig@...>
 

In case this helps others: I was unable to open the "search shoah victims database" (the picture of the little girl) >from the yad vashem home page - clicking anywhere on the picture, or where it said "click here" just didn't do anything. and if you can't get to the search page, you can't look up pages of testimony, etc.

I found that I could get to the database by going to the yad vashem site's search page first (http://www1.yadvashem.org.il/search/index_search.html) - >from there the blue link to "search the central database" at the top of the page works fine. it would seem that in changing the home page, someone forgot to put in the link. (or maybe it just doesn't work correctly on my combination of system and browser?)


....... tom klein, toronto


ps. I reported this problem to yad vashem already.

Vivian Kahn <vkahn@kmort.com> wrote:
Zvi Bernhardt <central.database@yadvashem.org.il> wrote:

On Yom Hashoah, we [Yad Vashem] put up a whole new site. We did this
in order to integrate a Russian interface for the site, a very
important move as we have also started a project to collect Pages of
Testimony among Russian speaking Jews. The project is currently
being carried out in the Ukraine and in Israel.

Like most new sites, the new site has bugs. We have sorted out most
of the bugs, but the site is still not as stable as the site we had
before Yom Hashoah. At this point, most of the time it works fine,
but problems occur every few days. Our computer people are working
hard to solve the problems as quickly as possible.

PLEASE write us at central.database@yadvashem.org.il if you encounter
technical problems with our site. We usually aren't able to answer
you quickly enough to help you, but you help us (and yourself in the
long run) by making sure we know all the problems that exist.

Zvi Bernhardt
Yad Vashem
central.database@yadvashem.org.il
Daphne SINGER in London #unitedkingdom

P & R Nash
 

Does anyone have contact information for Daphne Singer who was a
headmistress in the East End of London and is now retired?

Rieke Nash
Sydney, Australia
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Daphne SINGER in London #unitedkingdom

P & R Nash
 

Does anyone have contact information for Daphne Singer who was a
headmistress in the East End of London and is now retired?

Rieke Nash
Sydney, Australia
Where is/was Lomzhinskoy? #general

JOEL CAESAR <poppyjoel5@...>
 

Dear Genners,
I'verecently begun working on my long-planned family history. Today, I
received a translation of my maternal GF's Russian Army paybook, 1895-1898.
A friend, I retired Russian Orthodox Priest, did the translating. I was
disappointed that the places in the book where City, Town, Village and date
of birth were supposed to be, were left blank. Both my GF's "Province" and
"Region" are identified as (as translated) "Lomzhinskoy." Anyone out there
have some suggestions for the location of this area? Family legend has his
hometown identified as Novgorod or Novogrod. He belonged to a burial
society, in New York City, supposedly comprised of others >from his home
town, with a plot in Old Montifore Cemetary in Queens, NY, the name of which
began with "Charne."
Is Lomzhinskoy another spelling for Lomza Gubernia, home of my maternal GM's
(BURSZTYN)family?
For the record: Private Yutka Goldstein served with the 90th Infantry,
Onezhsky Regiment >from 1895-1898. His pay was 45 kopeks every two months. He
made extra money by doing laundry work, tailoring and handling "rubbish".

Joel W. Caesar
Jackson, NJ
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Where is/was Lomzhinskoy? #general

JOEL CAESAR <poppyjoel5@...>
 

Dear Genners,
I'verecently begun working on my long-planned family history. Today, I
received a translation of my maternal GF's Russian Army paybook, 1895-1898.
A friend, I retired Russian Orthodox Priest, did the translating. I was
disappointed that the places in the book where City, Town, Village and date
of birth were supposed to be, were left blank. Both my GF's "Province" and
"Region" are identified as (as translated) "Lomzhinskoy." Anyone out there
have some suggestions for the location of this area? Family legend has his
hometown identified as Novgorod or Novogrod. He belonged to a burial
society, in New York City, supposedly comprised of others >from his home
town, with a plot in Old Montifore Cemetary in Queens, NY, the name of which
began with "Charne."
Is Lomzhinskoy another spelling for Lomza Gubernia, home of my maternal GM's
(BURSZTYN)family?
For the record: Private Yutka Goldstein served with the 90th Infantry,
Onezhsky Regiment >from 1895-1898. His pay was 45 kopeks every two months. He
made extra money by doing laundry work, tailoring and handling "rubbish".

Joel W. Caesar
Jackson, NJ
Hebrew Gravestone Translations #general

Justin Kirk Houser <jkhouser84@...>
 

Good afternoon, everyone,

I have a question concerning Hebrew gravestone inscriptions. I am the
cemetery project chair for the Clinton County, Pennsylvania, Genealogical
Society, a non-profit organization, and we are currently recording cemetery
inscriptions throughout Clinton County, PA for posterity.

At the moment, we are reading Beth Yehuda Cemetery in Lock Haven, PA, which
dates to the late 1800s and is still in use. Many of the markers are in
Hebrew. We are looking for someone who can help us translate the Hebrew
inscriptions on many of the markers for a reasonable fee. I have digitally
photographed the Hebrew markers and can email or mail them on a CD to
anyone who can help. There are probably about 200-300 such markers. A few
are entirely in Hebrew and some appear to have only a few letters in
Hebrew. Most are somewhere between this range.

I look forward to any direction anyone can provide in this regard.

Justin K. Houser
Bellefonte, PA USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Recommendations for professional help need to be
sent privately. Some pointers for reading Hebrew gravestones on
your own are at http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/tombstones.html .
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Hebrew Gravestone Translations #general

Justin Kirk Houser <jkhouser84@...>
 

Good afternoon, everyone,

I have a question concerning Hebrew gravestone inscriptions. I am the
cemetery project chair for the Clinton County, Pennsylvania, Genealogical
Society, a non-profit organization, and we are currently recording cemetery
inscriptions throughout Clinton County, PA for posterity.

At the moment, we are reading Beth Yehuda Cemetery in Lock Haven, PA, which
dates to the late 1800s and is still in use. Many of the markers are in
Hebrew. We are looking for someone who can help us translate the Hebrew
inscriptions on many of the markers for a reasonable fee. I have digitally
photographed the Hebrew markers and can email or mail them on a CD to
anyone who can help. There are probably about 200-300 such markers. A few
are entirely in Hebrew and some appear to have only a few letters in
Hebrew. Most are somewhere between this range.

I look forward to any direction anyone can provide in this regard.

Justin K. Houser
Bellefonte, PA USA

MODERATOR NOTE: Recommendations for professional help need to be
sent privately. Some pointers for reading Hebrew gravestones on
your own are at http://www.jewishgen.org/InfoFiles/tombstones.html .
Re: Los Angeles death records #general

Sharon R. Korn <s.r.korn@...>
 

Allan,

Here is a web site for LA county vital records, including death
certificates.

http://www.lavote.net/RECORDER/BDM_Records.cfm

I could not find anything for the city of LA, but maybe I missed something.
The way I find sites for any state or local agency is to go to
www.firstgov.gov/ ? and follow the links.

Good luck. Thanks to your past help, I added a generation to my family
tree.

Sharon Korn
San Diego
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Los Angeles death records #general

Sharon R. Korn <s.r.korn@...>
 

Allan,

Here is a web site for LA county vital records, including death
certificates.

http://www.lavote.net/RECORDER/BDM_Records.cfm

I could not find anything for the city of LA, but maybe I missed something.
The way I find sites for any state or local agency is to go to
www.firstgov.gov/ ? and follow the links.

Good luck. Thanks to your past help, I added a generation to my family
tree.

Sharon Korn
San Diego
Has Any Vital Records of the Town Bresc/Breszc-Poland Been Located Or Indexed Yet? #general

sacredsisters3@aol.com <sacredsisters3@...>
 

Hello All

I am curious to find out if there are any vital records for the
town/village Of Bresc/Breszc-Poland. I am hoping to find information on
my maternal grandfathers family(Fajkes/Faikes), because he was born
there and most likey so were his other siblings. I have yet to find any
such records on his family.

Do any records exist for that town or town that was close to it. I have
looked at all the other databases many times and I have never come up
with anything. If anyone knows how to help or give me tips please let
me know.

Sarah Greenberg (USA)
sacredsisters3@aol.com
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Has Any Vital Records of the Town Bresc/Breszc-Poland Been Located Or Indexed Yet? #general

sacredsisters3@aol.com <sacredsisters3@...>
 

Hello All

I am curious to find out if there are any vital records for the
town/village Of Bresc/Breszc-Poland. I am hoping to find information on
my maternal grandfathers family(Fajkes/Faikes), because he was born
there and most likey so were his other siblings. I have yet to find any
such records on his family.

Do any records exist for that town or town that was close to it. I have
looked at all the other databases many times and I have never come up
with anything. If anyone knows how to help or give me tips please let
me know.

Sarah Greenberg (USA)
sacredsisters3@aol.com
JUDASHKO family in Warsaw (Warszawa) #general

Julie
 

I am seeking information on my maternal grandfather's family,
Judashko, in Warsaw.

My grandfather Kopel Aaron JUDASHKO, emigrated to the U.S. with my
grandmother, Jean (Janina ROTHSTEIN), in the early 1920s. His
mother's name was Rivka and his father (my great-grandfather) was
either Chaskel or Rachmil. We know that the family was in the
restaurant business, and the restaurant or a family home may have
been at Nalewski 49, which is inside the ghetto. I know that that
location was bombed at some point.

My grandfather was among 8 siblings; the only one we know of (aside
from him) who survived the war was Yakov (Jack). Kopel Aaron was born
in 1892.

Since Judashko (or Yudasczko) is a somewhat unique name, we believe
that anyone with that name will be related to us in some way.

I would be most appreciative of any information that anyone might
have about the family. My grandfather said that some of his siblings
were last seen fighting in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

Thank you

Julie Malkin
jmalkin@buckeye-express.com
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen JUDASHKO family in Warsaw (Warszawa) #general

Julie
 

I am seeking information on my maternal grandfather's family,
Judashko, in Warsaw.

My grandfather Kopel Aaron JUDASHKO, emigrated to the U.S. with my
grandmother, Jean (Janina ROTHSTEIN), in the early 1920s. His
mother's name was Rivka and his father (my great-grandfather) was
either Chaskel or Rachmil. We know that the family was in the
restaurant business, and the restaurant or a family home may have
been at Nalewski 49, which is inside the ghetto. I know that that
location was bombed at some point.

My grandfather was among 8 siblings; the only one we know of (aside
from him) who survived the war was Yakov (Jack). Kopel Aaron was born
in 1892.

Since Judashko (or Yudasczko) is a somewhat unique name, we believe
that anyone with that name will be related to us in some way.

I would be most appreciative of any information that anyone might
have about the family. My grandfather said that some of his siblings
were last seen fighting in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

Thank you

Julie Malkin
jmalkin@buckeye-express.com
Graham, Roger LEVY/QUASTEL #unitedkingdom

Susan Goldsmith
 

Dear SIG members,
If you know either Graham LEVY, a solicitor or barrister, or his brother
Roger LEVY, a dentist, both in the UK, (mother's maiden name QUASTEL),
please contact me privately. They are cousins related to my maternal
TOBIAS/ROZANSKY/MIRANSKY/BILINSKY family.

Is there a UK national list for either profession (if one does not know the
city where the person is located)? Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,
Susan Goldsmith
San Francisco Bay Area, CA US


~
JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Graham, Roger LEVY/QUASTEL #unitedkingdom

Susan Goldsmith
 

Dear SIG members,
If you know either Graham LEVY, a solicitor or barrister, or his brother
Roger LEVY, a dentist, both in the UK, (mother's maiden name QUASTEL),
please contact me privately. They are cousins related to my maternal
TOBIAS/ROZANSKY/MIRANSKY/BILINSKY family.

Is there a UK national list for either profession (if one does not know the
city where the person is located)? Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,
Susan Goldsmith
San Francisco Bay Area, CA US


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