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Searching: POSNER #general

WBH <wazza@...>
 

I am looking for the family of Woolf POSNER, my great grandfather.

Woolf and his brothers and sisters lived in High Street Kensington in the
1860's approx.

Woolf b. 1861
Jacob (Father) b. 1829 Poland
Theresa (Mother) b. 1831

There must be present day relatives out there.

thanks

Wayne Hodges
Abbreviations #general

Eve Line Blum <blume@...>
 

from time to time, on the LitvakSIG, we can see abbreviations such as FYI,
or SASE, or ASAP.

Please, could you think of us, poor ignorant foreigners (grin... as would
say our Moderator), who don't always know these acronyms ? I'm beginning to
be used to, after having asked here and there, but many friends of mines
goes on asking me about that special English (or American) coded language...

Moreover, I've read about it in Jewishgen rules (since Jewishgen is hosting
LitvakSIG), #3 Queries and Replies :

3.4 (excerpt)
JewishGen reaches a global audience.Many of your readers do not have
English as >their primary language. [...] The use of slang and
abbreviations are >discouraged. Remember also that many newcomers don't
have a clue as to what >SSDI, LOC, FHL, mean. It is always proper to
clarify an acronym by using a >completely spelled out reference at least
once in your post.
Many thanks in advance for your understanding.

PS : For the ones who don't know about the above abbreviations :
FYI = For Your Information
SASE = Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope
ASAP = As Soon As Possible

Eve Line Blum
Besancon (France)
Searching: HECHTs from Chicago #general

yaacovi
 

I am searching any information about the descendants of Rachel & Moses
HECHT who came >from East Prussia to Santa-Monica, and >from there to
Chicago, where they opened a shoe store. The HECHTS had 7 children, of
which I know about a son -called Irving, who worked at his father's shop,
a daughter called Gertrud, who married David MEYER, they had 2 children,
one of them Richard MEYER, lives probably at Rockville, Maryland.

There was a daughter too- Rose, who married a LEAVITT and she had a
daughter named Bernadine who lived in California.

Rina Yaacovi
yaacovi@netvision.net.il
SURNAMES #general

Daniel Wagner <Cpwagner@...>
 

About once a year I post an updated list of names I research. This is
that time of the year....

Thanks for any help.
Daniel

BAUM (BOIM) - Wyszogrod; Konskie; Bedzin; Lodz; Brussels
ELBINGER (ELWING)(ELWINGER) - Lodz
GOLDBERG - Ustilug
GOTHEIL (GOTTHEIL)(GOTHAJL)-- Lodz
HERSZKOWICZ (GERSZKOWICZ) - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
KACZKA - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
KENIG (KONIG) - Bedzin
KRELL -- Warsaw
KRONENTAL - Warsaw
KUMETZ -- Konskie
LANGER - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
PATRON - Warsaw
POTAZNIK (POTASZNIK)(PTASHNIK)(POTAXNIK) - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
RECHTDINER -- Lodz, Warsaw
RYTEN (RITTEN) - Lublin & Ustilug
SILBERKASTEN (ZILBERKASTEN)(KASTEN) -- Warsaw
STAL (STAHL) - Warsaw
WAGNER - Zyrardow & Warsaw
WAJSKOP -- Warsaw

______________
H Daniel Wagner
Weizmann Institute of Science
Rehovot 76100, Israel
Tel: +(972) 8 934 2594
Fax: +(972) 8 934 4137
E-mail: cpwagner@wis.weizmann.ac.il
http://www.weizmann.ac.il/wagner


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Although the above list exceeds the normal restrictions
of 6 lines for surname lists, this contributor does NOT include a list
in each individual posting therefore we are allowing it.
World War 2 Draft Cards #general

Bert Lazerow <lazer@...>
 

Here is what I have discovered about World War 2 Draft Registration Cards.
Between October 1940 and March 1947, almost 51 million men registered for
the draft. Men were obligated to register if born between 1877 and 1929.
These registrations, which were recorded clearly on 5 x 8 cards, contain
useful genealogical information. They ask for the age, date of birth, city
and state of birth, contact person, home address and phone, work address,
exact height, weight, type of complexion, color of eyes and hair, and any
identifying scars and marks. However, not all these lines were completed.
Only 5% of the cards I examined contained the exact city of birth for
persons born abroad. Most cards contented themselves with the country.
These registration cards are all physically located at the NARA Regional
Archives. The Fourth Registration, which took place in April 1942, of
persons born 1877 to 1897, are generally open to inspection. The remainder
are not open to inspection, but information >from them can be obtained under
FOIA by writing the Selective Service National Headquarters, 1515 Wilson
Blvd Fl 4, Arlington VA 22209-2425 ATTN: Sharon Toon or Paula Sweeney,
giving as much information about the individual as possible, but at least
an approximate date of birth and expected location at the time of
registration and, in the case of persons born after 1900, providing some
indication that the individual is either dead or has authorized the
inquiry. There is some discussion about making cards for persons born
after 1897 available for inspection, but Ms Toon did not seem too
optimistic about that. I suggested to her that since the census is
released when the youngest person listed is 72, applying the same rule to
draft cards would call for release in 2001. She did not seem convinced.
The Fourth Registration is open to the public in most jurisdictions, but
not all. For instance, in Massachusetts, the draft boards interfiled the
Fourth Registration cards with all the others (which is bizarre, because
those men were never eligible to be drafted). Since they are not separated
from those that are closed to the public, the Fourth Registration for
Massachusetts is likewise closed.
In most other states, using the cards is easy because they are
alphabetized by state. One should give the Regional Archives a few days'
advance warning along with the names being sought so they can retrieve the
boxes >from storage, but using them is quick and easy.
But for some states such as Connecticut, the cards are arranged by local
draft board number, then alphabetically, so you must know the person's
address with some precision. This is complicated by the fact that,
although you can figure out when people had to register by birth date,
there were exceptions. Persons who were abroad, or who were already in the
Armed Forces, did not need to register until they were discharged or
returned to the U.S. So a person who should by birthdate have registered
in 1942 might in fact have registered in 1946 >from a different address.
For reasons that are not at all clear to me, the cards for New Jersey and
New York, which should be at the Northeast Regional Archives in Manhattan,
are in fact stored at the Regional Archive in Kansas City.
Cards for Maryland, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia are in Philadelphia,
and are alphabetized statewide.
New Hampshire cards are at Waltham, and alphabetized statewide.
Bert
Herbert Lazerow
U. of San Diego Law School, 5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110-2492
lazer@acusd.edu, fax 619-260-2230, phone (619)260-4597
Re: Grodno Yeshiva and Haftorah Reading #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-05 00:25:56 EDT, jmg-miami@email.msn.com writes:

<< He writes that his 13th year would be on "Shabbat Nachamu." Does anyone
know what part of the year that Haftorah reading refers to? >>
==The "Shabbat of Comforting"--the first Shabbat immediately after the fast of
Tisha Be'Av which occurs on the 9th (occasionally 10th) of Av (Ab). It occurs
usually in late July or August. The Haftorah of that day is >from Isaiah and
starts "Nachamu, Nachamu, Ami"--Be comforted, be comforted my people,"

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester
WOLF, Sali & Rachel, Rotterdam, murdered by Dr. Petiot, Paris ca 1942
WEIL[L], Albert, Fr. hon. consul in Nurnberg; returned to France 1936/7.
Re: NEBENZAHLs #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-04 23:49:41 EDT, you write:

<< An Israeli cousin found references to our shared family line, NEBENZAHL, >>

==One Nebenzahl was for many years a prominent official in Israel. As I
recall it, he was the Comptroller-General.

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester
Re: Bzenic community [sp?] #general

Don Saklad <dsaklad@...>
 

[02/14/1994 18:50 G Mittleman page 01]
~Notice to General Membership~

Edward M. Kempner, Jr.
[New Jersey]
November 16, 1987



M. Selling
Jewish Genealogical Society of Greater Buffalo
[New York]

Dear Ms. Selling:

In an attempt to trace family lines, I recently wrote
to Avotaynu, The International Review of Jewish
Genealogy.

(I am searching four lines with family names of
Kempner, Warner, Tishler and Springer.)

They sent me a list of Jewish genealogical societies
which includes your name.



I have assembled much material about these families,
some of which might interest some of your members.

Not knowing about your Society, I gave printouts of
both genealogies and family histories to
Sister Martin Joseph Jones,
Archives/Special Collections, State University College
at Buffalo, 13000 Elmwood Avenue Buffalo, NY 14222
( 878-6304 ) .

Anyone interested can view them at the Butler Library
on that campus.



I also gave much material to Temple Beth Zion, to a man
named Fox, I believe. (Much of my study of the Warner
family included origins of Temple Beth Zion, since my
great grandfather, Leopold Warner, was a founder,
officer and prominent member of that congregation until
his death in 1900.

Born in 1818, he emigrated in 1848 >from Bisenz,
Moravia, Austria - now Bzenic, Czechoslovakia - and,
after a sojourn in Utica, NY, settled in Buffalo in
1854.



Though the Temple lost most of its records in the fire,
many are available through the
American Jewish Archives, 3101 Clifton Avenue,
Cincinnati, OH 45220-2488
(Att. Kevin Proffitt, Associate Archivist).
so informed Mr. Fox, who appeared not to know about
this material.



My grandfather Simon Kempner
(married Celia Warner, hence the connection) emigrated
from Gorlitz, Germany (now East Germany) in 1864.


I have no idea as to either the interest any of your
members might have in these families or the possible
help they might be able to give me in my own further
researches.

Also, unfortunately, I get to Buffalo only once or
twice a year (though I was born there in 1918 and
attended School 56 and Lafayette High School) - and
just recently returned with my wife >from one of our
infrequent visits.

But if any of your members are interested or think they
might like to engage me in further discourse, I'd
welcome hearing >from them.

In any event, they might like to look over the material
I sent to Sister Martin Joseph or Mr. Fox.



Sincerely yours
~Ed Kempner~
Edward M. Kempner, Jr.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: POSNER #general

WBH <wazza@...>
 

I am looking for the family of Woolf POSNER, my great grandfather.

Woolf and his brothers and sisters lived in High Street Kensington in the
1860's approx.

Woolf b. 1861
Jacob (Father) b. 1829 Poland
Theresa (Mother) b. 1831

There must be present day relatives out there.

thanks

Wayne Hodges
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Abbreviations #general

Eve Line Blum <blume@...>
 

from time to time, on the LitvakSIG, we can see abbreviations such as FYI,
or SASE, or ASAP.

Please, could you think of us, poor ignorant foreigners (grin... as would
say our Moderator), who don't always know these acronyms ? I'm beginning to
be used to, after having asked here and there, but many friends of mines
goes on asking me about that special English (or American) coded language...

Moreover, I've read about it in Jewishgen rules (since Jewishgen is hosting
LitvakSIG), #3 Queries and Replies :

3.4 (excerpt)
JewishGen reaches a global audience.Many of your readers do not have
English as >their primary language. [...] The use of slang and
abbreviations are >discouraged. Remember also that many newcomers don't
have a clue as to what >SSDI, LOC, FHL, mean. It is always proper to
clarify an acronym by using a >completely spelled out reference at least
once in your post.
Many thanks in advance for your understanding.

PS : For the ones who don't know about the above abbreviations :
FYI = For Your Information
SASE = Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope
ASAP = As Soon As Possible

Eve Line Blum
Besancon (France)
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: HECHTs from Chicago #general

yaacovi
 

I am searching any information about the descendants of Rachel & Moses
HECHT who came >from East Prussia to Santa-Monica, and >from there to
Chicago, where they opened a shoe store. The HECHTS had 7 children, of
which I know about a son -called Irving, who worked at his father's shop,
a daughter called Gertrud, who married David MEYER, they had 2 children,
one of them Richard MEYER, lives probably at Rockville, Maryland.

There was a daughter too- Rose, who married a LEAVITT and she had a
daughter named Bernadine who lived in California.

Rina Yaacovi
yaacovi@netvision.net.il
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen SURNAMES #general

Daniel Wagner <Cpwagner@...>
 

About once a year I post an updated list of names I research. This is
that time of the year....

Thanks for any help.
Daniel

BAUM (BOIM) - Wyszogrod; Konskie; Bedzin; Lodz; Brussels
ELBINGER (ELWING)(ELWINGER) - Lodz
GOLDBERG - Ustilug
GOTHEIL (GOTTHEIL)(GOTHAJL)-- Lodz
HERSZKOWICZ (GERSZKOWICZ) - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
KACZKA - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
KENIG (KONIG) - Bedzin
KRELL -- Warsaw
KRONENTAL - Warsaw
KUMETZ -- Konskie
LANGER - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
PATRON - Warsaw
POTAZNIK (POTASZNIK)(PTASHNIK)(POTAXNIK) - Zdunska Wola & Lodz
RECHTDINER -- Lodz, Warsaw
RYTEN (RITTEN) - Lublin & Ustilug
SILBERKASTEN (ZILBERKASTEN)(KASTEN) -- Warsaw
STAL (STAHL) - Warsaw
WAGNER - Zyrardow & Warsaw
WAJSKOP -- Warsaw

______________
H Daniel Wagner
Weizmann Institute of Science
Rehovot 76100, Israel
Tel: +(972) 8 934 2594
Fax: +(972) 8 934 4137
E-mail: cpwagner@wis.weizmann.ac.il
http://www.weizmann.ac.il/wagner


MODERATOR'S NOTE: Although the above list exceeds the normal restrictions
of 6 lines for surname lists, this contributor does NOT include a list
in each individual posting therefore we are allowing it.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen World War 2 Draft Cards #general

Bert Lazerow <lazer@...>
 

Here is what I have discovered about World War 2 Draft Registration Cards.
Between October 1940 and March 1947, almost 51 million men registered for
the draft. Men were obligated to register if born between 1877 and 1929.
These registrations, which were recorded clearly on 5 x 8 cards, contain
useful genealogical information. They ask for the age, date of birth, city
and state of birth, contact person, home address and phone, work address,
exact height, weight, type of complexion, color of eyes and hair, and any
identifying scars and marks. However, not all these lines were completed.
Only 5% of the cards I examined contained the exact city of birth for
persons born abroad. Most cards contented themselves with the country.
These registration cards are all physically located at the NARA Regional
Archives. The Fourth Registration, which took place in April 1942, of
persons born 1877 to 1897, are generally open to inspection. The remainder
are not open to inspection, but information >from them can be obtained under
FOIA by writing the Selective Service National Headquarters, 1515 Wilson
Blvd Fl 4, Arlington VA 22209-2425 ATTN: Sharon Toon or Paula Sweeney,
giving as much information about the individual as possible, but at least
an approximate date of birth and expected location at the time of
registration and, in the case of persons born after 1900, providing some
indication that the individual is either dead or has authorized the
inquiry. There is some discussion about making cards for persons born
after 1897 available for inspection, but Ms Toon did not seem too
optimistic about that. I suggested to her that since the census is
released when the youngest person listed is 72, applying the same rule to
draft cards would call for release in 2001. She did not seem convinced.
The Fourth Registration is open to the public in most jurisdictions, but
not all. For instance, in Massachusetts, the draft boards interfiled the
Fourth Registration cards with all the others (which is bizarre, because
those men were never eligible to be drafted). Since they are not separated
from those that are closed to the public, the Fourth Registration for
Massachusetts is likewise closed.
In most other states, using the cards is easy because they are
alphabetized by state. One should give the Regional Archives a few days'
advance warning along with the names being sought so they can retrieve the
boxes >from storage, but using them is quick and easy.
But for some states such as Connecticut, the cards are arranged by local
draft board number, then alphabetically, so you must know the person's
address with some precision. This is complicated by the fact that,
although you can figure out when people had to register by birth date,
there were exceptions. Persons who were abroad, or who were already in the
Armed Forces, did not need to register until they were discharged or
returned to the U.S. So a person who should by birthdate have registered
in 1942 might in fact have registered in 1946 >from a different address.
For reasons that are not at all clear to me, the cards for New Jersey and
New York, which should be at the Northeast Regional Archives in Manhattan,
are in fact stored at the Regional Archive in Kansas City.
Cards for Maryland, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia are in Philadelphia,
and are alphabetized statewide.
New Hampshire cards are at Waltham, and alphabetized statewide.
Bert
Herbert Lazerow
U. of San Diego Law School, 5998 Alcala Park, San Diego CA 92110-2492
lazer@acusd.edu, fax 619-260-2230, phone (619)260-4597
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Grodno Yeshiva and Haftorah Reading #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-05 00:25:56 EDT, jmg-miami@email.msn.com writes:

<< He writes that his 13th year would be on "Shabbat Nachamu." Does anyone
know what part of the year that Haftorah reading refers to? >>
==The "Shabbat of Comforting"--the first Shabbat immediately after the fast of
Tisha Be'Av which occurs on the 9th (occasionally 10th) of Av (Ab). It occurs
usually in late July or August. The Haftorah of that day is >from Isaiah and
starts "Nachamu, Nachamu, Ami"--Be comforted, be comforted my people,"

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester
WOLF, Sali & Rachel, Rotterdam, murdered by Dr. Petiot, Paris ca 1942
WEIL[L], Albert, Fr. hon. consul in Nurnberg; returned to France 1936/7.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: NEBENZAHLs #general

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 98-10-04 23:49:41 EDT, you write:

<< An Israeli cousin found references to our shared family line, NEBENZAHL, >>

==One Nebenzahl was for many years a prominent official in Israel. As I
recall it, he was the Comptroller-General.

Michael Bernet
*****************************
seeking:

BERNET, BERNAT, BAERNET etc >from Frensdorf, Bamberg, Nurnberg, (Bavaria)
KONIGSHOFER: Welbhausen, Konigshofen, Furth (S. Germany)
ALTMANN: Kattowitz, Breslau, Poznan, Beuthen--Upper Silesia/Poland
WOLF(F): Frankfurt, Wurzburg, Furth, Yugoslavia, Westchester
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Bzenic community [sp?] #general

Don Saklad <dsaklad@...>
 

[02/14/1994 18:50 G Mittleman page 01]
~Notice to General Membership~

Edward M. Kempner, Jr.
[New Jersey]
November 16, 1987



M. Selling
Jewish Genealogical Society of Greater Buffalo
[New York]

Dear Ms. Selling:

In an attempt to trace family lines, I recently wrote
to Avotaynu, The International Review of Jewish
Genealogy.

(I am searching four lines with family names of
Kempner, Warner, Tishler and Springer.)

They sent me a list of Jewish genealogical societies
which includes your name.



I have assembled much material about these families,
some of which might interest some of your members.

Not knowing about your Society, I gave printouts of
both genealogies and family histories to
Sister Martin Joseph Jones,
Archives/Special Collections, State University College
at Buffalo, 13000 Elmwood Avenue Buffalo, NY 14222
( 878-6304 ) .

Anyone interested can view them at the Butler Library
on that campus.



I also gave much material to Temple Beth Zion, to a man
named Fox, I believe. (Much of my study of the Warner
family included origins of Temple Beth Zion, since my
great grandfather, Leopold Warner, was a founder,
officer and prominent member of that congregation until
his death in 1900.

Born in 1818, he emigrated in 1848 >from Bisenz,
Moravia, Austria - now Bzenic, Czechoslovakia - and,
after a sojourn in Utica, NY, settled in Buffalo in
1854.



Though the Temple lost most of its records in the fire,
many are available through the
American Jewish Archives, 3101 Clifton Avenue,
Cincinnati, OH 45220-2488
(Att. Kevin Proffitt, Associate Archivist).
so informed Mr. Fox, who appeared not to know about
this material.



My grandfather Simon Kempner
(married Celia Warner, hence the connection) emigrated
from Gorlitz, Germany (now East Germany) in 1864.


I have no idea as to either the interest any of your
members might have in these families or the possible
help they might be able to give me in my own further
researches.

Also, unfortunately, I get to Buffalo only once or
twice a year (though I was born there in 1918 and
attended School 56 and Lafayette High School) - and
just recently returned with my wife >from one of our
infrequent visits.

But if any of your members are interested or think they
might like to engage me in further discourse, I'd
welcome hearing >from them.

In any event, they might like to look over the material
I sent to Sister Martin Joseph or Mr. Fox.



Sincerely yours
~Ed Kempner~
Edward M. Kempner, Jr.
James IS the same name as Jacob!!! #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Dear Digest Readers:

Whoops! Tom Venetianer, in the message reproduced below, saw fit to
"correct" me publicly concerning the names James and Jacob; but please
allow me to point out that his "correction" was entirely misconceived.
Apparently he is unaware that the name James is merely an English variant
of Jacobus -- via the intermediate (medieval Latin) form Jacomus.

The Hebrew name of all the Jameses in the New Testament was Jacob,
including James the brother of Jesus, who is given as "Iakobos" in the
original Greek New Testament Matthew 13:55. Similarly, medieval
documents referring to any of the English kings called James call them
Jacobus. Hence "the Jacobite rebellion" supporting James II after his
abdication in 1688. Similarly, the French Jacobins got their name from
the Church of St. Jacques. Jacques of course comes >from Jacob -- and, as
we all know, " Frere Jacques" is "Brother James" in English.

See also any mid-sized Webster dictionary, but in particular Webster's New
World Dictionary, Third College Edition, page 722, s.v. James, where it
says, in addition to the above, as follows: James comes ">from Jacomus,
later form of Jacobus; see Jacob."

Sorry, Tom, nice try, but we really do have to set the record straight!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


Subject: *Re: Equivalents to names
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
>Excuse me, but some corrections are in order. You wrote:
>> Each language developed its own
version of each biblical name, usually because linguistic idiosyncrasies
demanded some modification in the spelling, the ending, etc. Therefore
Iakob (Gk), Jacobus (Lat.), Ya`qub (Arab.), Jakob (Ger), Jacques (Fr.),
Jacob (Eng.) and even a few variations containing the letter "m" -- such
as Giacomo (It.), Jaime (Sp.) and James (Eng.), are all genuine
equivalents of each other
None of these three last given names are equivalents of Jacob:

Giacomo is James in Italian, not Jacob. Jacob in Italian is Giaccobe.

Jacob is Jacobo in Spanish and Jaco' or Jacob in Portuguese... Jaime is
James in Spanish and Portuguese.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: We sense a battle brewing over names and their
origins. Both writers have had the chance to say their piece so we'll end
this one here. They are, of course, at liberty to continue privately.
We will naturally publish a joint message >from them should they reach
any consensus on this subject.
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen James IS the same name as Jacob!!! #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

Dear Digest Readers:

Whoops! Tom Venetianer, in the message reproduced below, saw fit to
"correct" me publicly concerning the names James and Jacob; but please
allow me to point out that his "correction" was entirely misconceived.
Apparently he is unaware that the name James is merely an English variant
of Jacobus -- via the intermediate (medieval Latin) form Jacomus.

The Hebrew name of all the Jameses in the New Testament was Jacob,
including James the brother of Jesus, who is given as "Iakobos" in the
original Greek New Testament Matthew 13:55. Similarly, medieval
documents referring to any of the English kings called James call them
Jacobus. Hence "the Jacobite rebellion" supporting James II after his
abdication in 1688. Similarly, the French Jacobins got their name from
the Church of St. Jacques. Jacques of course comes >from Jacob -- and, as
we all know, " Frere Jacques" is "Brother James" in English.

See also any mid-sized Webster dictionary, but in particular Webster's New
World Dictionary, Third College Edition, page 722, s.v. James, where it
says, in addition to the above, as follows: James comes ">from Jacomus,
later form of Jacobus; see Jacob."

Sorry, Tom, nice try, but we really do have to set the record straight!

Judith Romney Wegner
jrw@brown.edu


Subject: *Re: Equivalents to names
From: Tom Venetianer <tom.vene@uol.com.br>
>Excuse me, but some corrections are in order. You wrote:
>> Each language developed its own
version of each biblical name, usually because linguistic idiosyncrasies
demanded some modification in the spelling, the ending, etc. Therefore
Iakob (Gk), Jacobus (Lat.), Ya`qub (Arab.), Jakob (Ger), Jacques (Fr.),
Jacob (Eng.) and even a few variations containing the letter "m" -- such
as Giacomo (It.), Jaime (Sp.) and James (Eng.), are all genuine
equivalents of each other
None of these three last given names are equivalents of Jacob:

Giacomo is James in Italian, not Jacob. Jacob in Italian is Giaccobe.

Jacob is Jacobo in Spanish and Jaco' or Jacob in Portuguese... Jaime is
James in Spanish and Portuguese.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: We sense a battle brewing over names and their
origins. Both writers have had the chance to say their piece so we'll end
this one here. They are, of course, at liberty to continue privately.
We will naturally publish a joint message >from them should they reach
any consensus on this subject.
Miriam and Emma #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I too am curious about "Miriam." My great grandmother always was known as
"Emma." I have located an immigrant passenger record of a "Miriam" which
looks like it could be my great grandmother. Does anybody know if Emma was
short for Miriam?????
Thanks. --Steve Slesinger
I see two possibilities here:

The first hypothesis is that your grandmother was actually referring to
her mother not as "Emma" but as "Imma" -- which is Hebrew for "Mummy"
(and is routinely used as such in modern Israel). Some Diaspora Jewish
children are taught to do this today, and no doubt even in your
grandmother's day some children were taught to call their parents by the
Hebrew titles Abba and Imma rather than by the Yiddish titles Tate and
Mame.

The second hypothesis, of course, is that your ggm Miriam did actually call
herself Emma; but if so, since she is listed as Miriam on the passenger
record, she must have adopted the name Emma because she (or her parents?)
had deliberately picked Emma as a secular name to use in place of Miriam in
America. (Some women in my own family considered the name Miriam to be
"too Jewish-sounding" and preferred to call themselves by a secular
alternative like "Minnie") But it would not be correct to think of Emma
as in any literal sense "short for" Miriam -- it would have been simply
an arbitrary choice by your ggm or her parents.

Judith Romney Wegner

PS I hope everyone noticed that I carefully avoided calling this a
"Soundex" with quotes (as I did in an earlier response, when I really
meant simply a "sound-alike"). My thanks to Carol Skydell for pointing
out in the Digest that one really should not use this technical concept in
such a loose fashion. I didn't mean to mislead, and in any case I
promise never to do it again!
JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Miriam and Emma #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

I too am curious about "Miriam." My great grandmother always was known as
"Emma." I have located an immigrant passenger record of a "Miriam" which
looks like it could be my great grandmother. Does anybody know if Emma was
short for Miriam?????
Thanks. --Steve Slesinger
I see two possibilities here:

The first hypothesis is that your grandmother was actually referring to
her mother not as "Emma" but as "Imma" -- which is Hebrew for "Mummy"
(and is routinely used as such in modern Israel). Some Diaspora Jewish
children are taught to do this today, and no doubt even in your
grandmother's day some children were taught to call their parents by the
Hebrew titles Abba and Imma rather than by the Yiddish titles Tate and
Mame.

The second hypothesis, of course, is that your ggm Miriam did actually call
herself Emma; but if so, since she is listed as Miriam on the passenger
record, she must have adopted the name Emma because she (or her parents?)
had deliberately picked Emma as a secular name to use in place of Miriam in
America. (Some women in my own family considered the name Miriam to be
"too Jewish-sounding" and preferred to call themselves by a secular
alternative like "Minnie") But it would not be correct to think of Emma
as in any literal sense "short for" Miriam -- it would have been simply
an arbitrary choice by your ggm or her parents.

Judith Romney Wegner

PS I hope everyone noticed that I carefully avoided calling this a
"Soundex" with quotes (as I did in an earlier response, when I really
meant simply a "sound-alike"). My thanks to Carol Skydell for pointing
out in the Digest that one really should not use this technical concept in
such a loose fashion. I didn't mean to mislead, and in any case I
promise never to do it again!
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