Date   

Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

tom
 

that's a tough question. i suspect the answer is "both". in some cases, i think
parents named children based on a popular nickname, such as "boske", and never gave
a second thought to the "proper" name, whereas others named them "erzsebet"
officially, but used the nickname anyway. i haven't noticed any particular pattern
. and in b/m/d registers, the registrars seemed to record names like pepi and mor
without a problem.


....... tom klein, toronto

info@summit-search.com wrote:

This question concerns the names Peppi/Pepi, and Betti.

Were these given (at birth) names, or, were they nicknames for Josefina and
Erzibet respectively?

Please advise.


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

tom
 

that's a tough question. i suspect the answer is "both". in some cases, i think
parents named children based on a popular nickname, such as "boske", and never gave
a second thought to the "proper" name, whereas others named them "erzsebet"
officially, but used the nickname anyway. i haven't noticed any particular pattern
. and in b/m/d registers, the registrars seemed to record names like pepi and mor
without a problem.


....... tom klein, toronto

info@summit-search.com wrote:

This question concerns the names Peppi/Pepi, and Betti.

Were these given (at birth) names, or, were they nicknames for Josefina and
Erzibet respectively?

Please advise.


Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

devonesmith@...
 

Concerning diminutives Pepi and Betti, were the people in question born in Hungary? If so, most European countries, including Hungary, have some form of the Napoleonic naming codes, an official body that maintains a list of names that can be used to name children, including the banning of names that are too diminutive. Emperor Napoleon had very decisive views on the giving of 'ridiculous names' to children, obviously, and set down laws governing the practice. Diminutive forms, like Bobby for Robert, are seen as childish and limiting and social studies bear that out. But parents do like to do what they wish so those who were born in other countries where such laws did not exist or were not enforced may have given diminutive forms as formal given names. My daughters have the middle names Mariska, Annuska and Elluska. All named after deceased family members and perfectly legal where they were born in England but their Hungarian-Czech grandmother is very disapproving as they're not 'real' names, had they been born in Hungary they'd have had to been Maria, Anna and Gabriella.

Diminutive forms are called becenÊv in Hungary, formal given names are called keresztnev. Pepi/Peppi is a diminutive of Jozefa, Jozefina, Jozsa so that's pretty simple. Betti is not so straightforward, it can be a diminutive of Erzsebet but also is used for Brigitta, Bernadett, Bettina, Beata, Berta, and Beatrix. Hope this helps!

Devon Smith

Surnames: Lanyi, Lipkovic, Vacek, Salomon, Friedman, Muller


Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

Madeleine Isenberg
 

Alfred,

Having read and extracted information >from records and tombstones in
the Spis Region of Slovakia, I encountered the names you mentioned
quite often. At one time I googled "nickname Pepi" and came up with
an interesting connection to the Spanish nickname (Pepe) for someone
named Joseph, because of the connection to the words, "padre putativo"
and the Ps at the beginning of the words! So it would seem this got
transferred to a woman's name, and someone generally named Josephine.
However, I don't think I encountered any men with the name Joseph
being called Pepi among my records.

Betti appeared for women with Hebrew or Yiddish names, Bayla,
Breindel, Bluma, Bracha, Devora (means a "bee"), Basha, Berta,
Babetta.

No direct connection to Ersebet, but it is certainly reasonable for a
woman whose name ends as in -bet or -beth to have been a Betti, Such
a nickname even exists in English speaking countries, where Betty is a
nickname for Elizabeth.

Madeleine Isenberg
madeleine.isenberg@gmail.com
Beverly Hills, CA

Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN in various parts of
Galicia, Poland, such as: Nowy Targ, Wachsmund, Lopuszna, Ochotnica,
possibly Krakow, who migrated into Kezmarok or nearby
Straszky/Nagy-Eor/Nehre, both now in Slovakia.
GOLDSTEIN in Abaujszina (Sena), Szkaros, and Kosice, Slovakia;
Tolcsva, Hungary; Possibly Timosoara, Romania


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

devonesmith@...
 

Concerning diminutives Pepi and Betti, were the people in question born in Hungary? If so, most European countries, including Hungary, have some form of the Napoleonic naming codes, an official body that maintains a list of names that can be used to name children, including the banning of names that are too diminutive. Emperor Napoleon had very decisive views on the giving of 'ridiculous names' to children, obviously, and set down laws governing the practice. Diminutive forms, like Bobby for Robert, are seen as childish and limiting and social studies bear that out. But parents do like to do what they wish so those who were born in other countries where such laws did not exist or were not enforced may have given diminutive forms as formal given names. My daughters have the middle names Mariska, Annuska and Elluska. All named after deceased family members and perfectly legal where they were born in England but their Hungarian-Czech grandmother is very disapproving as they're not 'real' names, had they been born in Hungary they'd have had to been Maria, Anna and Gabriella.

Diminutive forms are called becenÊv in Hungary, formal given names are called keresztnev. Pepi/Peppi is a diminutive of Jozefa, Jozefina, Jozsa so that's pretty simple. Betti is not so straightforward, it can be a diminutive of Erzsebet but also is used for Brigitta, Bernadett, Bettina, Beata, Berta, and Beatrix. Hope this helps!

Devon Smith

Surnames: Lanyi, Lipkovic, Vacek, Salomon, Friedman, Muller


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

Madeleine Isenberg
 

Alfred,

Having read and extracted information >from records and tombstones in
the Spis Region of Slovakia, I encountered the names you mentioned
quite often. At one time I googled "nickname Pepi" and came up with
an interesting connection to the Spanish nickname (Pepe) for someone
named Joseph, because of the connection to the words, "padre putativo"
and the Ps at the beginning of the words! So it would seem this got
transferred to a woman's name, and someone generally named Josephine.
However, I don't think I encountered any men with the name Joseph
being called Pepi among my records.

Betti appeared for women with Hebrew or Yiddish names, Bayla,
Breindel, Bluma, Bracha, Devora (means a "bee"), Basha, Berta,
Babetta.

No direct connection to Ersebet, but it is certainly reasonable for a
woman whose name ends as in -bet or -beth to have been a Betti, Such
a nickname even exists in English speaking countries, where Betty is a
nickname for Elizabeth.

Madeleine Isenberg
madeleine.isenberg@gmail.com
Beverly Hills, CA

Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN in various parts of
Galicia, Poland, such as: Nowy Targ, Wachsmund, Lopuszna, Ochotnica,
possibly Krakow, who migrated into Kezmarok or nearby
Straszky/Nagy-Eor/Nehre, both now in Slovakia.
GOLDSTEIN in Abaujszina (Sena), Szkaros, and Kosice, Slovakia;
Tolcsva, Hungary; Possibly Timosoara, Romania


Re: Illegitimate birth registration (WOLF in Huncovce) #hungary

Madeleine Isenberg
 

Hilary and others,

When I first began to read birth records for Huncovce and
surroundings, I encountered similar questions about "illegitimacy" and
this question has arisen many times over the years. If you use
JewishGen's "Search Website"
(https://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/Search.asp) enter the words,
"illegitimate birth" you will find 417 entries, some of which will
explain.

Most of these will probably indicate that traditional Jewish weddings
had taken place and >from and Jewish point of view the children were
legitimately "kosher." There may be several reasons why they appear
as illegitimate, the most predominant was because no civil record
existed for the birth.

There was high mortality rate for women who had given birth and often
it occurred that a man might marry his dead-wife's sister, since she
would probably be more caring about her bereaved nieces or nephews
than some other woman. However, a law existed in the Austro-Hungarian
empire (and even in England until 1907, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deceased_Wife%27s_Sister%27s_Marriage_Act_1907),
that forbade a man to marry his dead-wife's sister. Per non-Jewish
law, they considered it some form of incest. Hence, such a marriage
could not be registered as a legitimate civil marriage. However,
sometimes the result is that the child might actually have to bear the
mother's maiden name, raising other genealogical questions.

Contact me off-line about family name of WOLF born in Huncovce or
nearby and with additional details.

Madeleine Isenberg
madeleine.isenberg@gmail.com
Beverly Hills, CA

Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN in various parts of
Galicia, Poland, such as: Nowy Targ, Wachsmund, Lopuszna, Ochotnica,
possibly Krakow, who migrated into Kezmarok or nearby
Straszky/Nagy-Eor/Nehre, both now in Slovakia.
GOLDSTEIN in Abaujszina (Sena), Szkaros, and Kosice, Slovakia;
Tolcsva, Hungary; Possibly Timosoara, Romania


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Illegitimate birth registration (WOLF in Huncovce) #hungary

Madeleine Isenberg
 

Hilary and others,

When I first began to read birth records for Huncovce and
surroundings, I encountered similar questions about "illegitimacy" and
this question has arisen many times over the years. If you use
JewishGen's "Search Website"
(https://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/Search.asp) enter the words,
"illegitimate birth" you will find 417 entries, some of which will
explain.

Most of these will probably indicate that traditional Jewish weddings
had taken place and >from and Jewish point of view the children were
legitimately "kosher." There may be several reasons why they appear
as illegitimate, the most predominant was because no civil record
existed for the birth.

There was high mortality rate for women who had given birth and often
it occurred that a man might marry his dead-wife's sister, since she
would probably be more caring about her bereaved nieces or nephews
than some other woman. However, a law existed in the Austro-Hungarian
empire (and even in England until 1907, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deceased_Wife%27s_Sister%27s_Marriage_Act_1907),
that forbade a man to marry his dead-wife's sister. Per non-Jewish
law, they considered it some form of incest. Hence, such a marriage
could not be registered as a legitimate civil marriage. However,
sometimes the result is that the child might actually have to bear the
mother's maiden name, raising other genealogical questions.

Contact me off-line about family name of WOLF born in Huncovce or
nearby and with additional details.

Madeleine Isenberg
madeleine.isenberg@gmail.com
Beverly Hills, CA

Researching: GOLDMAN, STEINER, LANGER, GLUECKSMAN in various parts of
Galicia, Poland, such as: Nowy Targ, Wachsmund, Lopuszna, Ochotnica,
possibly Krakow, who migrated into Kezmarok or nearby
Straszky/Nagy-Eor/Nehre, both now in Slovakia.
GOLDSTEIN in Abaujszina (Sena), Szkaros, and Kosice, Slovakia;
Tolcsva, Hungary; Possibly Timosoara, Romania


Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Alfred Holzman asks if the names Pepi and Betti were these given (at birth) names,
or, were they nicknames for Josefina and Erzibet respectively?

My paternal grandmother's sister was born with name Pepi as on her birth record
from what was then Hungary-in mid 1800's.I have three family members who were born
with the name Betti. For both the Pepi and 3 Bettis all were born in 1860-1880
range.


Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA


SEARCHING:
REICH, WALD,
ZUPNIK, Presov, Mestiszko, Szivdnik; Salgo, Sebes Kellemes,
Slovakia (formerly Hungary)
MEISELS,
SEGALLA/SIGALL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, Ukraine
KLAJNMAN,
MICHELBERG, SYK, SZLANG, TYKULSKIER Sochaczew, Chorzele, and Zakroczym Poland
FREJER, IMJAK,
WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK,-Stawiski, Poland
SZAPIRA, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, PERLA, ASZ, WAPNIARZ -Lomza
,Poland
GUTFARB --Zambrow,
Poland ASZ, Nasielsk, Poland ELION, PERLA
Suwalki Lithuania






________________________________


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: Given Names Pepi and Betti #hungary

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Alfred Holzman asks if the names Pepi and Betti were these given (at birth) names,
or, were they nicknames for Josefina and Erzibet respectively?

My paternal grandmother's sister was born with name Pepi as on her birth record
from what was then Hungary-in mid 1800's.I have three family members who were born
with the name Betti. For both the Pepi and 3 Bettis all were born in 1860-1880
range.


Jan Meisels Allen
Agoura Hills, CA


SEARCHING:
REICH, WALD,
ZUPNIK, Presov, Mestiszko, Szivdnik; Salgo, Sebes Kellemes,
Slovakia (formerly Hungary)
MEISELS,
SEGALLA/SIGALL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, Ukraine
KLAJNMAN,
MICHELBERG, SYK, SZLANG, TYKULSKIER Sochaczew, Chorzele, and Zakroczym Poland
FREJER, IMJAK,
WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK,-Stawiski, Poland
SZAPIRA, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, PERLA, ASZ, WAPNIARZ -Lomza
,Poland
GUTFARB --Zambrow,
Poland ASZ, Nasielsk, Poland ELION, PERLA
Suwalki Lithuania






________________________________


ViewMate translation request -- Russian #poland

Alice
 

I have posted a vital record in Russian for which I need a
translation. It is in ViewMate at the following address:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63257

Please respond on the form provided in the VewMate application.
Thank you very much for your assistance.

Alice Riley


JRI Poland #Poland ViewMate translation request -- Russian #poland

Alice
 

I have posted a vital record in Russian for which I need a
translation. It is in ViewMate at the following address:

http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63257

Please respond on the form provided in the VewMate application.
Thank you very much for your assistance.

Alice Riley


(Poland) Polish Government Donates Equivalent of $28 Million TO Hel Restore Major Warsaw Jewish Cemetery #poland

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Polish government donated 100 million zlotys equivalent to $28 million
USD to restore and protect the Jewish Cemetery on Okopowa Street in Warsaw.
This is one of the largest government donations toward preserving the
Jewish culture which was virtually wiped-out during the Shoah.

The Okopowa Street Jewish Cemetery has 250,000 graves of Polish Jews. It
was established in 1806 and has many notables buried there. Many sections
of the cemetery have broken tombstones, and unreadable inscriptions. The
Cultural Heritage Foundation, which preserves Polish heritage sites, will
oversee the preservation work at the cemetery. The donation established an
endowment which is to cover cleaning the cemetery, preserving its tombstones
and monuments and reinforcing an outer wall.

To read more see: https://tinyurl.com/y6wyzgdh
Original url:
https://apnews.com/58cf43ce0cff433982f6419ade6fc1de/Poland-donates-large-sum
-to-preserve-Warsaw-Jewish-cemetery

Thank you to Randy Hershaft, Associated Press for sharing the article with
us.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


JRI Poland #Poland (Poland) Polish Government Donates Equivalent of $28 Million TO Hel Restore Major Warsaw Jewish Cemetery #poland

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Polish government donated 100 million zlotys equivalent to $28 million
USD to restore and protect the Jewish Cemetery on Okopowa Street in Warsaw.
This is one of the largest government donations toward preserving the
Jewish culture which was virtually wiped-out during the Shoah.

The Okopowa Street Jewish Cemetery has 250,000 graves of Polish Jews. It
was established in 1806 and has many notables buried there. Many sections
of the cemetery have broken tombstones, and unreadable inscriptions. The
Cultural Heritage Foundation, which preserves Polish heritage sites, will
oversee the preservation work at the cemetery. The donation established an
endowment which is to cover cleaning the cemetery, preserving its tombstones
and monuments and reinforcing an outer wall.

To read more see: https://tinyurl.com/y6wyzgdh
Original url:
https://apnews.com/58cf43ce0cff433982f6419ade6fc1de/Poland-donates-large-sum
-to-preserve-Warsaw-Jewish-cemetery

Thank you to Randy Hershaft, Associated Press for sharing the article with
us.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


(Poland) Polish Government Donates Equivalent of $28 Million To Help Restore Major Warsaw Jewish Cemetery #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Polish government donated 100 million zlotys equivalent to $28 million
USD to restore and protect the Jewish Cemetery on Okopowa Street in Warsaw.
This is one of the largest government donations toward preserving the
Jewish culture which was virtually wiped-out during the Shoah.

The Okopowa Street Jewish Cemetery has 250,000 graves of Polish Jews. It
was established in 1806 and has many notables buried there. Many sections
of the cemetery have broken tombstones, and unreadable inscriptions. The
Cultural Heritage Foundation, which preserves Polish heritage sites, will
oversee the preservation work at the cemetery. The donation established an
endowment which is to cover cleaning the cemetery, preserving its tombstones
and monuments and reinforcing an outer wall.

To read more see: https://tinyurl.com/y6wyzgdh
Original url:
https://apnews.com/58cf43ce0cff433982f6419ade6fc1de/Poland-donates-large-sum-to-preserve-Warsaw-Jewish-cemetery

Thank you to Randy Hershaft, Associated Press for sharing the article with us.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen (Poland) Polish Government Donates Equivalent of $28 Million To Help Restore Major Warsaw Jewish Cemetery #general

Jan Meisels Allen
 

The Polish government donated 100 million zlotys equivalent to $28 million
USD to restore and protect the Jewish Cemetery on Okopowa Street in Warsaw.
This is one of the largest government donations toward preserving the
Jewish culture which was virtually wiped-out during the Shoah.

The Okopowa Street Jewish Cemetery has 250,000 graves of Polish Jews. It
was established in 1806 and has many notables buried there. Many sections
of the cemetery have broken tombstones, and unreadable inscriptions. The
Cultural Heritage Foundation, which preserves Polish heritage sites, will
oversee the preservation work at the cemetery. The donation established an
endowment which is to cover cleaning the cemetery, preserving its tombstones
and monuments and reinforcing an outer wall.

To read more see: https://tinyurl.com/y6wyzgdh
Original url:
https://apnews.com/58cf43ce0cff433982f6419ade6fc1de/Poland-donates-large-sum-to-preserve-Warsaw-Jewish-cemetery

Thank you to Randy Hershaft, Associated Press for sharing the article with us.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access Monitoring Committee


Chava Agmon z"l #general

ingrid rockberger
 

IGRA and the Israeli genealogy community deeply mourn the death of Chava Agmon
(b. Eve Marie Nadelman). Known as the "Grande Dame" of Israeli genealogy, Chava was
involved in genealogy in Israel for over 30 years and was one of the founding and
most devoted members of JFRA (Jewish Family Research Association), one of the
forerunners of IGRA.

Chava was a feisty, feminist, no-nonsense character and attended meetings whenever
she could - even up to a few months ago.

When offered free membership as she entered her 90th year, she would not hear of it
and insisted on giving her membership money as a donation.

Chava was a descendant of R. Joseph Chaim Caro (1805-1895) of Wloclawek, Poznan,
Poland, and, after inheriting several family manuscripts, she spent many years
resesearching the family, and eventually donated her research to the Jacobi
collection at the National Library of Israel.

She was responsible for the addenda to the Chronicle of the Caro family written by
Jakob Caro in 1891.

For more about Chava Agmon: http://sefarad.org/lm/017/kara.html

May her memory be for a blessing.

On behalf of IGRA

Ingrid Rockberger
Co- Chair,Sharon Branch
Israel Genealogy Research Association.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Chava Agmon z"l #general

ingrid rockberger
 

IGRA and the Israeli genealogy community deeply mourn the death of Chava Agmon
(b. Eve Marie Nadelman). Known as the "Grande Dame" of Israeli genealogy, Chava was
involved in genealogy in Israel for over 30 years and was one of the founding and
most devoted members of JFRA (Jewish Family Research Association), one of the
forerunners of IGRA.

Chava was a feisty, feminist, no-nonsense character and attended meetings whenever
she could - even up to a few months ago.

When offered free membership as she entered her 90th year, she would not hear of it
and insisted on giving her membership money as a donation.

Chava was a descendant of R. Joseph Chaim Caro (1805-1895) of Wloclawek, Poznan,
Poland, and, after inheriting several family manuscripts, she spent many years
resesearching the family, and eventually donated her research to the Jacobi
collection at the National Library of Israel.

She was responsible for the addenda to the Chronicle of the Caro family written by
Jakob Caro in 1891.

For more about Chava Agmon: http://sefarad.org/lm/017/kara.html

May her memory be for a blessing.

On behalf of IGRA

Ingrid Rockberger
Co- Chair,Sharon Branch
Israel Genealogy Research Association.


ViewMate translation requests - Polish #general

Juliana Giudice <jbgiudice@...>
 

I've posted several birth records in Polish >from Wolanka (Boryslaw) for
which I need translations. If possible, I would like a translation of
all of the information, these records are all I have to go on for now &
every little bit helps -- family jobs, witnesses, etc.

- Birth of Dwore GERTLER (new post)
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63221

- Birth of Chaim Josef HALPERN (general translation already provided)
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63028

- Birth of Mendel FELDMAN (general translation already provided)
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM62631

Thanks very much to all the generous translators >from JewishGen (& to
the folks at JRI Poland who posted these in the first place).

Juliana Berland


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen ViewMate translation requests - Polish #general

Juliana Giudice <jbgiudice@...>
 

I've posted several birth records in Polish >from Wolanka (Boryslaw) for
which I need translations. If possible, I would like a translation of
all of the information, these records are all I have to go on for now &
every little bit helps -- family jobs, witnesses, etc.

- Birth of Dwore GERTLER (new post)
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63221

- Birth of Chaim Josef HALPERN (general translation already provided)
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM63028

- Birth of Mendel FELDMAN (general translation already provided)
http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM62631

Thanks very much to all the generous translators >from JewishGen (& to
the folks at JRI Poland who posted these in the first place).

Juliana Berland

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