Date   

Re: Parish registers #unitedkingdom

BP Bergman <bergville@...>
 

< I have been informed that Jews common in registers was
common a long time ago in England as Synagogue
weddings were not recognised by the state,Hence the
entry's as the only legal place to get married was in
a church if you did not then your children would be
considered illegitamate,Not a good thing at the time.
This would affect all jews up to 1837 until a system
of national Record keeping started.
Hence the entry's Baptised/Married as Jews in the
Parish registers. >

It is more likely that they married in church in order to have a "parish of
settlement" which would look after them if they fell on hard times. With no
State benefits, the Church was the only source of support to the poor, but
even then it had to be a parish which recognised your right to be supported
by it, which meant having a formal link to it.

Beverly Bergman


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Parish registers #unitedkingdom

BP Bergman <bergville@...>
 

< I have been informed that Jews common in registers was
common a long time ago in England as Synagogue
weddings were not recognised by the state,Hence the
entry's as the only legal place to get married was in
a church if you did not then your children would be
considered illegitamate,Not a good thing at the time.
This would affect all jews up to 1837 until a system
of national Record keeping started.
Hence the entry's Baptised/Married as Jews in the
Parish registers. >

It is more likely that they married in church in order to have a "parish of
settlement" which would look after them if they fell on hard times. With no
State benefits, the Church was the only source of support to the poor, but
even then it had to be a parish which recognised your right to be supported
by it, which meant having a formal link to it.

Beverly Bergman


Re: Sephardi naming #unitedkingdom

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/14/2006 5:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
henry.best1@ntlworld.com writes:


<< Not only was it COMMON practice amongst Sephardis to name children after
their living grandparents, it was the USUAL practice.
The first child of each sex was named after the paternal grandparent, the
second, of the same sex, after the maternal grandparent.
Names, therefore, are repeated every second generation.
It was also usual to name further children (the third or subsequent child of
each sex) after their living uncles or aunts.>>

==Sephardim named children after their grandparents, whether living or dead.
I've read suggestions here that children were also named after a living
parent.

==Am I correct in believing that among Sephardim, it was extremely rare to
name a child after its (living) mother or father?

Michael Bernet, New York


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Sephardi naming #unitedkingdom

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/14/2006 5:48:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
henry.best1@ntlworld.com writes:


<< Not only was it COMMON practice amongst Sephardis to name children after
their living grandparents, it was the USUAL practice.
The first child of each sex was named after the paternal grandparent, the
second, of the same sex, after the maternal grandparent.
Names, therefore, are repeated every second generation.
It was also usual to name further children (the third or subsequent child of
each sex) after their living uncles or aunts.>>

==Sephardim named children after their grandparents, whether living or dead.
I've read suggestions here that children were also named after a living
parent.

==Am I correct in believing that among Sephardim, it was extremely rare to
name a child after its (living) mother or father?

Michael Bernet, New York


Re: SEPHARDI NAMING and Ashkenasi, in England #unitedkingdom

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/14/2006 4:02:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
malkikatz9361@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< Just a note for fellow Geners about the difference
between Ashkanasi and sephardi child naming patterns
in relevence between the 2 groups,My tree crosses the
divide between the Dutch Sephardi and Polish/Russian
immigrants to London.
Please be aware that within the Dutch jews it was
common practice to name the children after there
parents while still alive as opposed to the Ashkanasi
immigrants coming in where it was a total no-no. >>

==I must add the customs of Western Ashkenasim--German, Dutch and Alsatian
Jews who settled in England and established their first congregation in 1690
just 35 years after the readmission of Jews to England. These Jews retained
the Germanic pattern by taking their father's first name as the secon element
of their name [e.g. London's first Chief Rabbi, Solomon Hirschel, was the son
of R. Hirschel Levin; as Frankfurt's Rabbi Samson Rafael Hirsch was the son
of Rafael Frankfurter] In other words, their custom was to add the father's
name to their own but did not assume their father's name.

==It was these Germanic Jews who established the rituals of Britain's United
Synagogue that remains the English standard, even after the arrival of
Polish/Russian immigrant Jews a full two centuries later (starting around 1890).

==There had been small groups of Marrano Jews in Britain >from soon after the
expulsion >from Spain/Portugal. They were given no official recognition and
were often the subjects of expulsion/repression. These may have been among
the Jews-registered-as-Christians to whom Malki Katz refers

Michael Bernet, New York


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: SEPHARDI NAMING and Ashkenasi, in England #unitedkingdom

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/14/2006 4:02:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
malkikatz9361@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< Just a note for fellow Geners about the difference
between Ashkanasi and sephardi child naming patterns
in relevence between the 2 groups,My tree crosses the
divide between the Dutch Sephardi and Polish/Russian
immigrants to London.
Please be aware that within the Dutch jews it was
common practice to name the children after there
parents while still alive as opposed to the Ashkanasi
immigrants coming in where it was a total no-no. >>

==I must add the customs of Western Ashkenasim--German, Dutch and Alsatian
Jews who settled in England and established their first congregation in 1690
just 35 years after the readmission of Jews to England. These Jews retained
the Germanic pattern by taking their father's first name as the secon element
of their name [e.g. London's first Chief Rabbi, Solomon Hirschel, was the son
of R. Hirschel Levin; as Frankfurt's Rabbi Samson Rafael Hirsch was the son
of Rafael Frankfurter] In other words, their custom was to add the father's
name to their own but did not assume their father's name.

==It was these Germanic Jews who established the rituals of Britain's United
Synagogue that remains the English standard, even after the arrival of
Polish/Russian immigrant Jews a full two centuries later (starting around 1890).

==There had been small groups of Marrano Jews in Britain >from soon after the
expulsion >from Spain/Portugal. They were given no official recognition and
were often the subjects of expulsion/repression. These may have been among
the Jews-registered-as-Christians to whom Malki Katz refers

Michael Bernet, New York


Surname BEST #unitedkingdom

henry
 

Cousins,

My family surname is BEST.
My g-grandfather came to the UK in about 1845 >from Holland.
I have a theory (but no evidence) that the name may have been a contraction
of BEn Shem Tov.
Also, in my searches in JGFF, I've seen the surname BAST which again may be
a contraction of BAt Shem Tov.

Does anyone out there have an opinion as to the likelihood of this, or am I
barking up the wrong tree?

Henry Best [London]




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JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Surname BEST #unitedkingdom

henry
 

Cousins,

My family surname is BEST.
My g-grandfather came to the UK in about 1845 >from Holland.
I have a theory (but no evidence) that the name may have been a contraction
of BEn Shem Tov.
Also, in my searches in JGFF, I've seen the surname BAST which again may be
a contraction of BAt Shem Tov.

Does anyone out there have an opinion as to the likelihood of this, or am I
barking up the wrong tree?

Henry Best [London]




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Tested on: 5/14/2006 23:19:14
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Re: Sephardi/Ashkanasi Naming Patterns #unitedkingdom

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/15/2006 4:07:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
skylark2000@juno.com writes:

<< my grandfather, Edward Rosenbloom, born at Gravesend February 28, 1836,
prior to separate records being established for Jews.

<< Also, your information allows me to assume that my great grandfather was
Ashkanasi as he had a son named Frederick, and my grandfather's first son
was named Edward after him.

==The name of a child is not a very efficient way of establishing whether
the ancestor was Ashkenasi or Sefardi. The surname here is much more
revealing. It is definitely not of Spanish/Portuguese origin, but Germanic, and
whether Rosenbloom or Rosingbloom in British records, it was almost certainly
Rosenblum in Germany (Rosenblom, perhaps if >from Holland). German and Dutch
Ashkenasim had settled in England by 1690 and soon outnumbered the Sfardimj

Michael Bernet, New York


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Re: Sephardi/Ashkanasi Naming Patterns #unitedkingdom

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 5/15/2006 4:07:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
skylark2000@juno.com writes:

<< my grandfather, Edward Rosenbloom, born at Gravesend February 28, 1836,
prior to separate records being established for Jews.

<< Also, your information allows me to assume that my great grandfather was
Ashkanasi as he had a son named Frederick, and my grandfather's first son
was named Edward after him.

==The name of a child is not a very efficient way of establishing whether
the ancestor was Ashkenasi or Sefardi. The surname here is much more
revealing. It is definitely not of Spanish/Portuguese origin, but Germanic, and
whether Rosenbloom or Rosingbloom in British records, it was almost certainly
Rosenblum in Germany (Rosenblom, perhaps if >from Holland). German and Dutch
Ashkenasim had settled in England by 1690 and soon outnumbered the Sfardimj

Michael Bernet, New York


"Death Books" at the ITS in Arolsen, Germany #general

Sherry Kisos <smwwk770@...>
 

Dear All,

I would like to protest the use of the words "death
books" in relation to the records of the ITS at
Arolsen, Germany.

As far as I know, there are no death books, nor have I
ever seen any mention of death books in other
references (Allied sources) to the ITS files.

Yes, there are concentration camp records. As the
Allies entered the concentration camps, the Germans
did not manage to burn everything. What they found was
later on deposited in the ITS archives.

And yes, I agree that it is very important that the
archives be accessible to anyone looking for
information. What is available at Yad Vashem is a very
small fraction of the total presently in the Archive
at Arolsen.

I think that everyone has great expectations regarding
the information held in these files which is totally
disproportionate as to what is actually there.

I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

Regards,
Sherry Kisos
Petach Tikvah, Israel


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen "Death Books" at the ITS in Arolsen, Germany #general

Sherry Kisos <smwwk770@...>
 

Dear All,

I would like to protest the use of the words "death
books" in relation to the records of the ITS at
Arolsen, Germany.

As far as I know, there are no death books, nor have I
ever seen any mention of death books in other
references (Allied sources) to the ITS files.

Yes, there are concentration camp records. As the
Allies entered the concentration camps, the Germans
did not manage to burn everything. What they found was
later on deposited in the ITS archives.

And yes, I agree that it is very important that the
archives be accessible to anyone looking for
information. What is available at Yad Vashem is a very
small fraction of the total presently in the Archive
at Arolsen.

I think that everyone has great expectations regarding
the information held in these files which is totally
disproportionate as to what is actually there.

I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

Regards,
Sherry Kisos
Petach Tikvah, Israel


Nashville SHAPIRO's #general

Stewart Bernstein <skbernst123@...>
 

I am researching the SHAPIRO/SHAPIRI family who lived
in Nashville, Tennessee during the period of
1890-1910.

My paternal great-grandfather Louis Rubin married Anna
SHAPIRO/SHAPIRI in 1891, and later relocated to
Chicago. The SHAPIRO/SHAPIRI family operated a grocery
store in Nashville. Anna's father was named Meyer.

Louis was employed at one time by "The Tennessee
Manufacturing Co."

Louis and Anna are buried at Chicago's Waldheim
Cemetery.

Stewart K. Bernstein
Thousand Oaks, CA

Researching >from Pultusk & Przasnysk/Pruznitz, Poland: Niestempower, Karsch,
Kierszenbaum, Domb, Dronzek, Zelkowitz, Zylberberg, Blinkitny, Eichler,
Bernstein (some Berns in the U.S./Chicago), Najman/Neuman

Researching >from Warka/Vurka, Poland: Karczewa/Karchova

Researching >from Labun/Polonnoye, Ukraine: Baranshteyn/Bernstein

Researching >from Nashville, Tennessee: Rubin (Also Chicago), Shapiri/Shapiro


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Nashville SHAPIRO's #general

Stewart Bernstein <skbernst123@...>
 

I am researching the SHAPIRO/SHAPIRI family who lived
in Nashville, Tennessee during the period of
1890-1910.

My paternal great-grandfather Louis Rubin married Anna
SHAPIRO/SHAPIRI in 1891, and later relocated to
Chicago. The SHAPIRO/SHAPIRI family operated a grocery
store in Nashville. Anna's father was named Meyer.

Louis was employed at one time by "The Tennessee
Manufacturing Co."

Louis and Anna are buried at Chicago's Waldheim
Cemetery.

Stewart K. Bernstein
Thousand Oaks, CA

Researching >from Pultusk & Przasnysk/Pruznitz, Poland: Niestempower, Karsch,
Kierszenbaum, Domb, Dronzek, Zelkowitz, Zylberberg, Blinkitny, Eichler,
Bernstein (some Berns in the U.S./Chicago), Najman/Neuman

Researching >from Warka/Vurka, Poland: Karczewa/Karchova

Researching >from Labun/Polonnoye, Ukraine: Baranshteyn/Bernstein

Researching >from Nashville, Tennessee: Rubin (Also Chicago), Shapiri/Shapiro


Re: Belz, Galicia #general

roe kard
 

Dear Yehuda,

Because my father's father's family is >from Belz, >from the family of,
and shochtim to the Belzer rabbayim, I too have been very interested
in finding records/information. To the best of my knowledge and search,
the original Birth, Death and Marriage records are missing: JRI-Poland,
as i am sure you have found, only has records >from people >from Belz who
were living elsewhere during the time of the birth,death or marriage;
RTR Foundation only lists very old and genealogically not-very-helpful
records.

The fact that these records are missing would seem to be common
knowledge even in Belz: while I was there last May a man came over to
me and my guide and offered to show us where the Belz records were if
we would pay him a certain sum of money. (He also offered to show us
where the Jew's gold was!) We did not take him up on it.

There are three non-governmental sources of information that are (or
could be) useful: (1) I have taken on responsibility for the
translation of the Belz Zichron/Yizkor Book. It's Table of Contents is
already up on JewishGen and there is a wealth of information in there
which will become available as we get the book translated (Donations
and Volunteers welcome and critical!!!) (2) The cemetery in Belz has
quite a few Matzavot/gravestones, most of which are currently covered
with a layer of dirt and with great deterioration. I would very much
like to go again and clean up the cemetery and "grave rub" the stones
for their content - but this too requires money and help. (3) The book
"Rescuing the Rebbe of Belz" by Yosef Israel provided some information
to me, and finally, (4) there are genealogies available on some of the
lines of the Rokach family.

I would be very grateful if you would share with me any other
information you get.

B'shalom, Karen Roekard (Gittel Chaya Etta Rosenfeld Rokart)

Subject: Belz, Galicia
From: Yehuda Herskowitz <seforimlover@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 07:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 14

Does anyone know how much information is available
about Belz in Galicia. Specifically, births, deaths
and marriages, or other similar government indexes.

Belz was the original seat of the Belz Chassidic
dynasty.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re:Belz, Galicia #general

roe kard
 

Dear Yehuda,

Because my father's father's family is >from Belz, >from the family of,
and shochtim to the Belzer rabbayim, I too have been very interested
in finding records/information. To the best of my knowledge and search,
the original Birth, Death and Marriage records are missing: JRI-Poland,
as i am sure you have found, only has records >from people >from Belz who
were living elsewhere during the time of the birth,death or marriage;
RTR Foundation only lists very old and genealogically not-very-helpful
records.

The fact that these records are missing would seem to be common
knowledge even in Belz: while I was there last May a man came over to
me and my guide and offered to show us where the Belz records were if
we would pay him a certain sum of money. (He also offered to show us
where the Jew's gold was!) We did not take him up on it.

There are three non-governmental sources of information that are (or
could be) useful: (1) I have taken on responsibility for the
translation of the Belz Zichron/Yizkor Book. It's Table of Contents is
already up on JewishGen and there is a wealth of information in there
which will become available as we get the book translated (Donations
and Volunteers welcome and critical!!!) (2) The cemetery in Belz has
quite a few Matzavot/gravestones, most of which are currently covered
with a layer of dirt and with great deterioration. I would very much
like to go again and clean up the cemetery and "grave rub" the stones
for their content - but this too requires money and help. (3) The book
"Rescuing the Rebbe of Belz" by Yosef Israel provided some information
to me, and finally, (4) there are genealogies available on some of the
lines of the Rokach family.

I would be very grateful if you would share with me any other
information you get.

B'shalom, Karen Roekard (Gittel Chaya Etta Rosenfeld Rokart)

Subject: Belz, Galicia
From: Yehuda Herskowitz <seforimlover@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 07:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 14

Does anyone know how much information is available
about Belz in Galicia. Specifically, births, deaths
and marriages, or other similar government indexes.

Belz was the original seat of the Belz Chassidic
dynasty.


Re: grave of GREENBERG Al american ww2 dead soldier #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net>

Sara Reichman wrote on 14 mei 2006 in soc.genealogy.jewish:
For a long time I am trying to find the grave of my fathers brother,
GREENBERG Al (Abraham). He was born in Rypin Poland Between1914 and
1919. Came to USA, was a watchmaker, lived in NY ( Brooklyn?) and was
killed in the army while being an American soldier.
Have any one any idea how to find his grave?
...
<http://www.abmc.gov/search/wwii.php>
<http://www.jewishgen.org/cemetery/northamerica/usmilitary.html>
<http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/vital-records/>

In addition to the sites Evertjan posted, the newspaper would
be a good place to look. During the War [assuming we are talking
about WWII] there were columns almost every day listing the killed
and wounded. See if you can find a library or a subscription service
that offers the New York Times searchable newspaper archives.

The local Brooklyn paper would probably have carried something
too, but you would have to scroll through miles of microfilm if you
don't know the date. If you can find something in the NY Times,
then you could look at appropriate film for Brooklyn where you will
hopefully find a more detailed article for a local resident.

Lisa
llepore@comcast.net


Seeking SCHWADRON family #general

Nigel Wilson <wilsonettes@...>
 

Dear Friends,

I am seeking help with family SCHWADRON.

from a 1921 Ellis Island entrance to New York – Simon and Marif SCHWADRON
(who became known as Samuel and Mary) were born in Podkamen (was Galicia,
then Poland, now Ukraine) and last place of residence was Cwitowa.

Simon was born in 1892 and Mary 1893 - I have knowledge of their
descendants.

The family wish to know if they are in fact descended >from the famous Rabbi
Shalom Mordechai HaCohen SCHWADRON – born in 1835 in a village in the
Zelochov district in Eastern Galicia.

We do know that Simon’s parents were Joshua and Beatrice, apparently they
too came to the United States, although I cannot find their entry details, I
presume their original names would have been Aviezer and Beila? – please
feel free to correct me….. they must have been born in abt. the 1860’s-70’s.

Does anyone have a SCHWADRON family tree that bears the above names?

Additionally we would like to find out if Simon had other siblings, we only
know of one, a sister called Regina born in 1901.- she also entered Ellis
Island in 1921.

Any information on the SCHWADRON family would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you

Patricia Wilson (Israel)


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: grave of GREENBERG Al american ww2 dead soldier #general

Lisa Lepore <llepore@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Evertjan." <exjxw.hannivoort@interxnl.net>

Sara Reichman wrote on 14 mei 2006 in soc.genealogy.jewish:
For a long time I am trying to find the grave of my fathers brother,
GREENBERG Al (Abraham). He was born in Rypin Poland Between1914 and
1919. Came to USA, was a watchmaker, lived in NY ( Brooklyn?) and was
killed in the army while being an American soldier.
Have any one any idea how to find his grave?
...
<http://www.abmc.gov/search/wwii.php>
<http://www.jewishgen.org/cemetery/northamerica/usmilitary.html>
<http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/vital-records/>

In addition to the sites Evertjan posted, the newspaper would
be a good place to look. During the War [assuming we are talking
about WWII] there were columns almost every day listing the killed
and wounded. See if you can find a library or a subscription service
that offers the New York Times searchable newspaper archives.

The local Brooklyn paper would probably have carried something
too, but you would have to scroll through miles of microfilm if you
don't know the date. If you can find something in the NY Times,
then you could look at appropriate film for Brooklyn where you will
hopefully find a more detailed article for a local resident.

Lisa
llepore@comcast.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Seeking SCHWADRON family #general

Nigel Wilson <wilsonettes@...>
 

Dear Friends,

I am seeking help with family SCHWADRON.

from a 1921 Ellis Island entrance to New York – Simon and Marif SCHWADRON
(who became known as Samuel and Mary) were born in Podkamen (was Galicia,
then Poland, now Ukraine) and last place of residence was Cwitowa.

Simon was born in 1892 and Mary 1893 - I have knowledge of their
descendants.

The family wish to know if they are in fact descended >from the famous Rabbi
Shalom Mordechai HaCohen SCHWADRON – born in 1835 in a village in the
Zelochov district in Eastern Galicia.

We do know that Simon’s parents were Joshua and Beatrice, apparently they
too came to the United States, although I cannot find their entry details, I
presume their original names would have been Aviezer and Beila? – please
feel free to correct me….. they must have been born in abt. the 1860’s-70’s.

Does anyone have a SCHWADRON family tree that bears the above names?

Additionally we would like to find out if Simon had other siblings, we only
know of one, a sister called Regina born in 1901.- she also entered Ellis
Island in 1921.

Any information on the SCHWADRON family would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you

Patricia Wilson (Israel)