Date   

Leopold GODOWSKY #lithuania

Marion Hattenbach Bernstein
 

Dear Litvaks,

I am trying to prove a connection between my husband's GODOFSKY
family, primarily >from Merkine, and the famous
composer/pianist/conductor Leopold GODOWSKY.

I just ran across a fantastic article in the Palestine Post about
GODOWSKY's quest for a birth certificate that was foiled by changed
borders in the 1930's. In Vilna, he sought to get a taxi to the
"suburb" of Shoshli and was told that it was over the border in
Lithuania. (Vilna at that time was Polish) The most likely place to
fit this description was Zasliai, but I would hardly consider it a
"suburb" of Vilna!

Another hint was that Zasliai's records in the All Lithuania Database
include some RADOVSKYs, who are likely to be relatives. (RADOVSKY and
GODOFSKY may have once been the same family.)

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Marion H. Bernstein
San Antonio, TX


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Leopold GODOWSKY #lithuania

Marion Hattenbach Bernstein
 

Dear Litvaks,

I am trying to prove a connection between my husband's GODOFSKY
family, primarily >from Merkine, and the famous
composer/pianist/conductor Leopold GODOWSKY.

I just ran across a fantastic article in the Palestine Post about
GODOWSKY's quest for a birth certificate that was foiled by changed
borders in the 1930's. In Vilna, he sought to get a taxi to the
"suburb" of Shoshli and was told that it was over the border in
Lithuania. (Vilna at that time was Polish) The most likely place to
fit this description was Zasliai, but I would hardly consider it a
"suburb" of Vilna!

Another hint was that Zasliai's records in the All Lithuania Database
include some RADOVSKYs, who are likely to be relatives. (RADOVSKY and
GODOFSKY may have once been the same family.)

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Marion H. Bernstein
San Antonio, TX


Re: An mtDNA and Y-DNA match #dna

Ben Forman <ben.forman@...>
 

On 2008.03.05, Bob Kosovsky <kos@panix.com> wrote:

Has anyone figured the probability of this kind of situation - where
both a Y-DNA and mtDNA match points to the same person?
Hi Bob

I don't know what the exact statistical chance of this happening is,
but i would guess that it is not unlikely, since 50% of Ashkenazi
Jews are descended >from the same 5 female ancestors. As for the male
side, you have to remember that the time scales that DNA tests deal
with are 1000s of years, and during that time the population has
expanded rapidly, and the Ashkenazi Jewish community too has
expanded between the late 1700s and 1900s very rapidly, 10
Generations is around 200 years ago which would fit with this kind
of population expansion.

A very useful website with regards to DNA statistics within all
population groups is <http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/>. You might
need to search a bit but there are several papers there of interest
to Jewish Genetics researchers.

Best
Ben Forman


DNA Research #DNA RE: An mtDNA and Y-DNA match #dna

Ben Forman <ben.forman@...>
 

On 2008.03.05, Bob Kosovsky <kos@panix.com> wrote:

Has anyone figured the probability of this kind of situation - where
both a Y-DNA and mtDNA match points to the same person?
Hi Bob

I don't know what the exact statistical chance of this happening is,
but i would guess that it is not unlikely, since 50% of Ashkenazi
Jews are descended >from the same 5 female ancestors. As for the male
side, you have to remember that the time scales that DNA tests deal
with are 1000s of years, and during that time the population has
expanded rapidly, and the Ashkenazi Jewish community too has
expanded between the late 1700s and 1900s very rapidly, 10
Generations is around 200 years ago which would fit with this kind
of population expansion.

A very useful website with regards to DNA statistics within all
population groups is <http://vetinarilord.blogspot.com/>. You might
need to search a bit but there are several papers there of interest
to Jewish Genetics researchers.

Best
Ben Forman


Hurwitz/Neumegen Academy, Highgate/Kew #unitedkingdom

Irina Fridman
 

Dear Genners,

Could anyone advise me where the records of the above Academy are held (if any)?

Regards,
Irina Shub
Chatham, UK


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom Hurwitz/Neumegen Academy, Highgate/Kew #unitedkingdom

Irina Fridman
 

Dear Genners,

Could anyone advise me where the records of the above Academy are held (if any)?

Regards,
Irina Shub
Chatham, UK


KAPLANS in England #unitedkingdom

rlmilton@...
 

Greetings;
My records show that the Solomon KAPLAN family lived in England long enough to have
at least four children, Anna Rebecca (1877), Louie (1879), Samuel (1880), and Carrie (1886).
In 1887, the family moved to the US, settling in Memphis, Tenn. I am not sure where
the family lived while in England, possibly in London or Liverpool? Also unknown
is the port of departure, or ship name. Also do not know when or where Solomon and
wife, Gussie COHEN met and were married, or any family members left in England.
I appreciate any information or suggestions.

Renee Lehman Milton
Coos Bay, Oregon
rlmilton@verizon.net

Researching: COHEN in Germany, England, US; KAPLAN in Poland/Russia, England, US;
LEHMAN in Germany, US.


JCR-UK SIG #UnitedKingdom KAPLANS in England #unitedkingdom

rlmilton@...
 

Greetings;
My records show that the Solomon KAPLAN family lived in England long enough to have
at least four children, Anna Rebecca (1877), Louie (1879), Samuel (1880), and Carrie (1886).
In 1887, the family moved to the US, settling in Memphis, Tenn. I am not sure where
the family lived while in England, possibly in London or Liverpool? Also unknown
is the port of departure, or ship name. Also do not know when or where Solomon and
wife, Gussie COHEN met and were married, or any family members left in England.
I appreciate any information or suggestions.

Renee Lehman Milton
Coos Bay, Oregon
rlmilton@verizon.net

Researching: COHEN in Germany, England, US; KAPLAN in Poland/Russia, England, US;
LEHMAN in Germany, US.


variations in a surname's spelling #galicia

Renee Steinig
 

Molly Rund didn't say where she saw the varying spellings. If they
were in European records, consider the possibility that the person
who appeared to register a birth or marriage was literate in Yiddish
but did not have a set way to spell his name in Latin characters.
The registrar/rabbi may have spelled the name as he saw fit.

In the case of the United States census -- probably not where Molly
searched but interesting anyway -- it is my understanding that
census enumerators were instructed to write names as they heard
them, without taking the time to ask for spelling.

Most genealogists have encountered similar problems. That's why
Soundexes were developed. A tip for using the Daitch-Mokotoff
Soundex on JewishGen-hosted databases (including JRI, but excluding
Steve Morse's Ellis Island One-Step): If you're sure of the first
letter of the name (or the first two or three or more...) put those
letters in brackets to limit your results. For example, a "Sounds
Like" search on JRI-Poland for [GR]ABER will give you names
resembling GRABER that begin with GR; the same search without
brackets will also bring up names like GERBER, HARPER, and KORBER.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia variations in a surname's spelling #galicia

Renee Steinig
 

Molly Rund didn't say where she saw the varying spellings. If they
were in European records, consider the possibility that the person
who appeared to register a birth or marriage was literate in Yiddish
but did not have a set way to spell his name in Latin characters.
The registrar/rabbi may have spelled the name as he saw fit.

In the case of the United States census -- probably not where Molly
searched but interesting anyway -- it is my understanding that
census enumerators were instructed to write names as they heard
them, without taking the time to ask for spelling.

Most genealogists have encountered similar problems. That's why
Soundexes were developed. A tip for using the Daitch-Mokotoff
Soundex on JewishGen-hosted databases (including JRI, but excluding
Steve Morse's Ellis Island One-Step): If you're sure of the first
letter of the name (or the first two or three or more...) put those
letters in brackets to limit your results. For example, a "Sounds
Like" search on JRI-Poland for [GR]ABER will give you names
resembling GRABER that begin with GR; the same search without
brackets will also bring up names like GERBER, HARPER, and KORBER.

Renee

Renee Stern Steinig
Dix Hills, New York, USA
genmaven@gmail.com


Re: Vienna civil marriage information #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Following my posting last week about civil/mixed marriages in Vienna, I
received a number of interesting replies. Jo Feitler also remarked on the term
Konfessionlos which appeared both on his own printed Vienna Gymnasium report
card and that of his mother, a generation earlier.

Jo's card had the following printed on it:
? = Katholisch (Roman Catholic)
M = Mosaisch (the official term for Jewish)
A.B. = Lutheran (Augsburger Bekenntnis)
H.B. = Helvetisches Bekenntnis
(the Swiss version of Protestant
K = Konfessionslos (no religion; in my classes,
mostly "Jewish" whose parents did not want to
pay the "Kultussteuer" to support the IKG;
the Catholics and Protestant paid their
Kultussteuer for state use for those religions

One questioner asked me to try and find out exactly when these mixed marriages
were legalised. In researching the LEIMDORFER family for Oliver Bryk, [another
posting will follow], I found a partial answer written in a charming [undated]
letter >from Hungary: "Yesterday I took part in a ball .... organised by the
local Jewry ..... to celebrate the new law that legalises mixed marriages,
between Jew and Gentile. So, my beloved Annicska, I warn you, behave nicely
towards me! Consider, >from now on I could marry any Gentile girl I liked!"

The reference: http://tinyurl.com/35hfuh "By Grace Alone" Juliana Ray 1985
{Go to p. 14} quotes the time corresponding to the coronation of the Emperor
Franz Josef as Emperor of Hungary, namely 28 July 1867.

However, the Maigesetze appear to be the formal legal statutes and they were
enacted on 25 May 1868 see: http://tinyurl.com/2x4yrl

What amused me was that a ball was held to celebrate the event!

Celia Male [U.K.]


LEIMDORFER - in Moravia, Hungary, Croatia, Vienna and Zagreb. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Oliver Bryk wrote to several of us with a question about the LEIMDORFER family
and their origins: One of my relatives was Ella BRYK, born 1888 in Vienna. Ella
was my ggf Adolf's daughter >from his second marriage (in 1880 to Anna
JELENKIEWICZ). His first wife, Bettina MAHL who died young in 1877, is buried
in Waehring.

Ella married Aladar LEIMDORFER, [umlaut o] born 1880 (I don't know where). They

had three sons; the oldest was born in 1913, probably in Pecs. Aladar was the
general manager of a successful wood products business "Nasitzer Dampfsaege und
Tanninfabrik" with 5 factories, with branches in Austria and Hungary; he was
also mayor of Susine-Durdenovac until his death in 1936. Nasitz (Nasice) is a
town of modest size west of Zagreb (Agram); Durdenovac is a village northwest
of Nasice, in the part of Croatia known as Slavonia. (My parents and I stayed
with the LEIMDORFER family for several months in 1935.)"

I did a modicum of research on the LEIMDORFER for Oliver but this was the first
time I had heard the name. There is certainly scope for research in Vienna
where several are buried. We all know the maxim that once you have heard about
something for the first time, it reappears all the time and you wonder why you
have not heard of it before. Well this has just happened to me with LEIMDORFER.
I have today come across Prof Dr. Adolf LEIMDORFER, first rabbi of the unified
congregation of Wallachisch Meseritsch [Valaske Mezerici] and Mahrisch
Weisskirchen [Hranice], Moravia in the period, 1892-1894. I have no indication
as to where Adolf LEIMDORFER came from.

Furthermore we can read here that the granddaughter of the Chief rabbi
LEIMDORFER escaped >from Budapest to *Zagreb* in WW2, so I presume these
families were indeed related. Paul Lendvai - Vienna 1998 - Blacklisted: A
Journalist's Life in Central Europe: http://tinyurl.com/257bak

This chief rabbi LEIMDORFER is most probably David LEIMDORFER born Hlinik,
Hungary, 17 September 1851: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Leimd%C3%B6rfer

I now wonder if Oliver's LEIMDORFER family is perhaps a branch of a Moravian
family which wandered off to Hungary and later to Agram, Croatia and Vienna and
kept in touch throughout their diaspora? If we can locate more LEIMDORFER in
Moravia we may learn more about this family and its branches.

And here is a Hungarian LEIMDORFER/LEIMDORFFER saga - see confusing family tree
with no dates!: [p.12]: http://tinyurl.com/35hfuh

"By Grace Alone" Juliana Ray 1985

If you read the book on-line, you will see the family had relatives in Vienna -
and I feel they are the links Oliver is looking for. I do hope so - the three
LEIMDORFER: Aladar in Zagreb, the rabbi Adolf and Armin in the above book may
all be named after a common ancestor - Abraham. Certainly this family had a
grandfather Alexander who was very active in the wood and forest products
business. This may have been a family business trading throughout the Habsburg
Empire.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Re: Vienna civil marriage information #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Following my posting last week about civil/mixed marriages in Vienna, I
received a number of interesting replies. Jo Feitler also remarked on the term
Konfessionlos which appeared both on his own printed Vienna Gymnasium report
card and that of his mother, a generation earlier.

Jo's card had the following printed on it:
? = Katholisch (Roman Catholic)
M = Mosaisch (the official term for Jewish)
A.B. = Lutheran (Augsburger Bekenntnis)
H.B. = Helvetisches Bekenntnis
(the Swiss version of Protestant
K = Konfessionslos (no religion; in my classes,
mostly "Jewish" whose parents did not want to
pay the "Kultussteuer" to support the IKG;
the Catholics and Protestant paid their
Kultussteuer for state use for those religions

One questioner asked me to try and find out exactly when these mixed marriages
were legalised. In researching the LEIMDORFER family for Oliver Bryk, [another
posting will follow], I found a partial answer written in a charming [undated]
letter >from Hungary: "Yesterday I took part in a ball .... organised by the
local Jewry ..... to celebrate the new law that legalises mixed marriages,
between Jew and Gentile. So, my beloved Annicska, I warn you, behave nicely
towards me! Consider, >from now on I could marry any Gentile girl I liked!"

The reference: http://tinyurl.com/35hfuh "By Grace Alone" Juliana Ray 1985
{Go to p. 14} quotes the time corresponding to the coronation of the Emperor
Franz Josef as Emperor of Hungary, namely 28 July 1867.

However, the Maigesetze appear to be the formal legal statutes and they were
enacted on 25 May 1868 see: http://tinyurl.com/2x4yrl

What amused me was that a ball was held to celebrate the event!

Celia Male [U.K.]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech LEIMDORFER - in Moravia, Hungary, Croatia, Vienna and Zagreb. #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Oliver Bryk wrote to several of us with a question about the LEIMDORFER family
and their origins: One of my relatives was Ella BRYK, born 1888 in Vienna. Ella
was my ggf Adolf's daughter >from his second marriage (in 1880 to Anna
JELENKIEWICZ). His first wife, Bettina MAHL who died young in 1877, is buried
in Waehring.

Ella married Aladar LEIMDORFER, [umlaut o] born 1880 (I don't know where). They

had three sons; the oldest was born in 1913, probably in Pecs. Aladar was the
general manager of a successful wood products business "Nasitzer Dampfsaege und
Tanninfabrik" with 5 factories, with branches in Austria and Hungary; he was
also mayor of Susine-Durdenovac until his death in 1936. Nasitz (Nasice) is a
town of modest size west of Zagreb (Agram); Durdenovac is a village northwest
of Nasice, in the part of Croatia known as Slavonia. (My parents and I stayed
with the LEIMDORFER family for several months in 1935.)"

I did a modicum of research on the LEIMDORFER for Oliver but this was the first
time I had heard the name. There is certainly scope for research in Vienna
where several are buried. We all know the maxim that once you have heard about
something for the first time, it reappears all the time and you wonder why you
have not heard of it before. Well this has just happened to me with LEIMDORFER.
I have today come across Prof Dr. Adolf LEIMDORFER, first rabbi of the unified
congregation of Wallachisch Meseritsch [Valaske Mezerici] and Mahrisch
Weisskirchen [Hranice], Moravia in the period, 1892-1894. I have no indication
as to where Adolf LEIMDORFER came from.

Furthermore we can read here that the granddaughter of the Chief rabbi
LEIMDORFER escaped >from Budapest to *Zagreb* in WW2, so I presume these
families were indeed related. Paul Lendvai - Vienna 1998 - Blacklisted: A
Journalist's Life in Central Europe: http://tinyurl.com/257bak

This chief rabbi LEIMDORFER is most probably David LEIMDORFER born Hlinik,
Hungary, 17 September 1851: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Leimd%C3%B6rfer

I now wonder if Oliver's LEIMDORFER family is perhaps a branch of a Moravian
family which wandered off to Hungary and later to Agram, Croatia and Vienna and
kept in touch throughout their diaspora? If we can locate more LEIMDORFER in
Moravia we may learn more about this family and its branches.

And here is a Hungarian LEIMDORFER/LEIMDORFFER saga - see confusing family tree
with no dates!: [p.12]: http://tinyurl.com/35hfuh

"By Grace Alone" Juliana Ray 1985

If you read the book on-line, you will see the family had relatives in Vienna -
and I feel they are the links Oliver is looking for. I do hope so - the three
LEIMDORFER: Aladar in Zagreb, the rabbi Adolf and Armin in the above book may
all be named after a common ancestor - Abraham. Certainly this family had a
grandfather Alexander who was very active in the wood and forest products
business. This may have been a family business trading throughout the Habsburg
Empire.

Celia Male [U.K.]


Henry Wellisch's Chicago presentation: Vienna, Budapest and Prague #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Henry Wellisch wrote: "I have now received confirmation >from the Chicago
conference that my proposed presentation has been accepted; Here is a partial
description of my proposal: Vienna, Budapest and Prague: Three Great Jewish
Communities. This Power Point presentation, which will include pictures, charts
and maps, will focus on three of the most important Jewish communities of
Central Europe."

I am delighted that Henry's talk has been accepted and I am sure it will be
very stimulating. I tried to contact Henry twice recently and both times I
received this automated reply: On vacation: We will be back on February 11.

Henry, can you reset your email please?

Celia Male [U.K.]


Searching my STEINER ancestry in Wien & elsewhere #austria-czech

Steven Emanuel <steven.emanuel@...>
 

Dear Felow Genners

Through the kindness of Christoph Libisch I have discovered the following
information on my G.grandparents Karl STEINER & Anna KOLBAN.

Karl STEINER b. 1839 in Czech, d.10 May 1919 Wien
Anna KOLBAN b.1843 d. 16 Jan 1923 Wien
They married 28 Nov 1865 in Jesin

Children:
Emma b.1866 married name WOLLINSCH (army officer killed in a duel?)
Oskar possibly father to Kaethe(married to Erwin MAHLER, lived London) &
Egon
Etta married name MUNZ
Minka married name JELLINEK
Julius
Paula married to Bela SCHRANTZ/SCHWARZ, children Grete,Hans,Lilian lived
Budapest
Olga b.20 Feb 1886 Opava,married 19 Jan 1908 to Isidor BEINER (my
Grandparents) lived Munchen. Isidor died Zurich 1919.

Karl parents were Moritz STEINER of Leipnik & Babette.

This is the total of my knowledge and if any of above sounds familiar, or
anyone can advise how I can progress >from here I will be most grateful.

Steven EMANUEL, Blackwater, UK

Researching: (among others)
EMANUEL Obrigheim
LOEWENSTEIN Mainz
BEINER Succeava, Munchen
STEINER Leipnik, Opava, Wien


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Henry Wellisch's Chicago presentation: Vienna, Budapest and Prague #austria-czech

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

Henry Wellisch wrote: "I have now received confirmation >from the Chicago
conference that my proposed presentation has been accepted; Here is a partial
description of my proposal: Vienna, Budapest and Prague: Three Great Jewish
Communities. This Power Point presentation, which will include pictures, charts
and maps, will focus on three of the most important Jewish communities of
Central Europe."

I am delighted that Henry's talk has been accepted and I am sure it will be
very stimulating. I tried to contact Henry twice recently and both times I
received this automated reply: On vacation: We will be back on February 11.

Henry, can you reset your email please?

Celia Male [U.K.]


Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Searching my STEINER ancestry in Wien & elsewhere #austria-czech

Steven Emanuel <steven.emanuel@...>
 

Dear Felow Genners

Through the kindness of Christoph Libisch I have discovered the following
information on my G.grandparents Karl STEINER & Anna KOLBAN.

Karl STEINER b. 1839 in Czech, d.10 May 1919 Wien
Anna KOLBAN b.1843 d. 16 Jan 1923 Wien
They married 28 Nov 1865 in Jesin

Children:
Emma b.1866 married name WOLLINSCH (army officer killed in a duel?)
Oskar possibly father to Kaethe(married to Erwin MAHLER, lived London) &
Egon
Etta married name MUNZ
Minka married name JELLINEK
Julius
Paula married to Bela SCHRANTZ/SCHWARZ, children Grete,Hans,Lilian lived
Budapest
Olga b.20 Feb 1886 Opava,married 19 Jan 1908 to Isidor BEINER (my
Grandparents) lived Munchen. Isidor died Zurich 1919.

Karl parents were Moritz STEINER of Leipnik & Babette.

This is the total of my knowledge and if any of above sounds familiar, or
anyone can advise how I can progress >from here I will be most grateful.

Steven EMANUEL, Blackwater, UK

Researching: (among others)
EMANUEL Obrigheim
LOEWENSTEIN Mainz
BEINER Succeava, Munchen
STEINER Leipnik, Opava, Wien


Re: Graber/Greber/Gruber/Grober #galicia

Diane Jacobs <thegenie@...>
 

I have done some transliteration work >from Hebrew script and the
answer is you just don't know but most likely base your vowel
choices on what you know >from your own experience.

That's why when I do any research in English or >from a
transliteration, I always check other vowel combinations. You
would be surprised what you find, when you cast a wide net. Also,
don't forget to check out consonant changes such as a double B in
this case.

Good research is time-consuming and if you will recall the names of
the two lions outside the NYPL named patience and fortitude, you
will understand what it is all about.

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ

Molly Runds <mrunds@hotmail.com> wrote:

<<...I've been researching GRABER in Tarnow. I've just
discovered that the same surname can be spelt GREBER, GRUBER,
GROBER etc. How do the people who translate the names know which
one to use?...>>


Gesher Galicia SIG #Galicia RE: Graber/Greber/Gruber/Grober #galicia

Diane Jacobs <thegenie@...>
 

I have done some transliteration work >from Hebrew script and the
answer is you just don't know but most likely base your vowel
choices on what you know >from your own experience.

That's why when I do any research in English or >from a
transliteration, I always check other vowel combinations. You
would be surprised what you find, when you cast a wide net. Also,
don't forget to check out consonant changes such as a double B in
this case.

Good research is time-consuming and if you will recall the names of
the two lions outside the NYPL named patience and fortitude, you
will understand what it is all about.

Diane Jacobs
Somerset, NJ

Molly Runds <mrunds@hotmail.com> wrote:

<<...I've been researching GRABER in Tarnow. I've just
discovered that the same surname can be spelt GREBER, GRUBER,
GROBER etc. How do the people who translate the names know which
one to use?...>>