Date   

Searching: BRUGMAN, Curacao (W. Indies), 1800's #general

Judorican@...
 

I am researching the Brugman family, of Curac,ao, Dutch West Indies,
then of New Orleans and then of Puerto Rico. Mathias Brugman
(1811-1868) was baptised as a Catholic in New Orleans, but as old
men, his sons were seen by a young relative secretly observing
Shabbat in Puerto Rico--this would have been around the turn of
the century. Is anyone doing work on the Dutch Jews in the Caribbean?

Aurora Levins Morales


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching: BRUGMAN, Curacao (W. Indies), 1800's #general

Judorican@...
 

I am researching the Brugman family, of Curac,ao, Dutch West Indies,
then of New Orleans and then of Puerto Rico. Mathias Brugman
(1811-1868) was baptised as a Catholic in New Orleans, but as old
men, his sons were seen by a young relative secretly observing
Shabbat in Puerto Rico--this would have been around the turn of
the century. Is anyone doing work on the Dutch Jews in the Caribbean?

Aurora Levins Morales


Advisory #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Kay Kole is a certified genealogist. That is quite different >from a
professional genealogist whose only requirement for useing that designation is that he or she charge a fee commensurate with the work to be done. A certified genealogist is one who has specialized training in the subject matter of family research. Usually, one finds that a certified genealogist is also a professional since they've have already invested time and resources into making genealogy their career.

Therefore, it was with serious import that I listed to Kay's request. She
implored me to share with you her recent experience with Dr. A Harmath,
owner and principal of Hungarogens, a Hungarian genealogy firm. I told her I would quote her correspondence with Dr. Harmath verbatim, and without added comment since I had no way to independently investigate this matter.

from Kaye Kole to Dr. A Harmath on 3 July 1998 -
" Dear Dr. Harmath: On the 26th of May I met with you at the Marriott Hotel
in Budapest, where I gave you $100 to find verification of births of Mortiz
Holitscher in 1812, and Rosa Pinsker in 1829. You indicted that would be
easy to do. You also indicated that you might be able to find death
information for them, if they died in Budapest. So far, I have heard nothing >from you. Please let me know what you have done.

Yours truly, Kaye Kole"

written in pen at the bottom of the page:

" At this time, 15 September, I have heard nothing. Thanks for spreading the information.
Sincerely, Kaye Kole"


Please visit our website at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/


Hungary SIG #Hungary Advisory #hungary

Louis Schonfeld <lmagyar@...>
 

Kay Kole is a certified genealogist. That is quite different >from a
professional genealogist whose only requirement for useing that designation is that he or she charge a fee commensurate with the work to be done. A certified genealogist is one who has specialized training in the subject matter of family research. Usually, one finds that a certified genealogist is also a professional since they've have already invested time and resources into making genealogy their career.

Therefore, it was with serious import that I listed to Kay's request. She
implored me to share with you her recent experience with Dr. A Harmath,
owner and principal of Hungarogens, a Hungarian genealogy firm. I told her I would quote her correspondence with Dr. Harmath verbatim, and without added comment since I had no way to independently investigate this matter.

from Kaye Kole to Dr. A Harmath on 3 July 1998 -
" Dear Dr. Harmath: On the 26th of May I met with you at the Marriott Hotel
in Budapest, where I gave you $100 to find verification of births of Mortiz
Holitscher in 1812, and Rosa Pinsker in 1829. You indicted that would be
easy to do. You also indicated that you might be able to find death
information for them, if they died in Budapest. So far, I have heard nothing >from you. Please let me know what you have done.

Yours truly, Kaye Kole"

written in pen at the bottom of the page:

" At this time, 15 September, I have heard nothing. Thanks for spreading the information.
Sincerely, Kaye Kole"


Please visit our website at:
http://www.jewishgen.org/Hungary/


Re: Searching for missing relatives - Smiltene (Riga) #general

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

Gail Dechter writes:

Would anyone know if Jews >from the Riga, Latvia area would have been
sent to concentration camps during World WarII?
The main books:
The Holocaust in Latvia, 1941-1944 the missing centre, is by Andrew
Ezergalis. The Historical Institute of Latvia Riga and USHMM Washington
1996. isbn 9984 9054 3 8
Pinkas Hakehilot Latvia and Estonia. Dov Levin. 1988. Yad Vashem.
Jerusalem.

The Germans occupied Riga on July 1 1941. There is little doubt that the
Latvians started killing the Jews prior to the occupation
The majority of Riga's Jews (29,602) were put into a ghetto of 98,000
sq.ft of space. Most were killed in Rumbuli forest on 1 December 1941.
The killing continued until dec. 9th. Jews were brought >from other parts
of the Reich to be killed here also. Some came >from Kovno and Siauliai
in Lithuania. There were satellite labour camps, e.g. Kaiserwald.
Towards the end of the war most Jews in these camps were also killed.
The remainder were sent to Stutthof.
When Riga was liberated on October 13, 1944 150 Jews, including children,
came out of their hiding places.

I suggest you:
Subscribe to Latvia SIG discussion group on Jewish Gen
http://www1.jewishgen.org/latvia
Subscribe to their newsletter and get the back copies dealing with the
Holocaust.

If you are not in Israel get a professional Holocaust Researcher to
research at Yad Vashem for you. I can recommend one if you email me
privately.
--
Dr Saul Issroff
JGSGB
http://www.jgsgb.ort.org


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Searching for missing relatives - Smiltene (Riga) #general

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

Gail Dechter writes:

Would anyone know if Jews >from the Riga, Latvia area would have been
sent to concentration camps during World WarII?
The main books:
The Holocaust in Latvia, 1941-1944 the missing centre, is by Andrew
Ezergalis. The Historical Institute of Latvia Riga and USHMM Washington
1996. isbn 9984 9054 3 8
Pinkas Hakehilot Latvia and Estonia. Dov Levin. 1988. Yad Vashem.
Jerusalem.

The Germans occupied Riga on July 1 1941. There is little doubt that the
Latvians started killing the Jews prior to the occupation
The majority of Riga's Jews (29,602) were put into a ghetto of 98,000
sq.ft of space. Most were killed in Rumbuli forest on 1 December 1941.
The killing continued until dec. 9th. Jews were brought >from other parts
of the Reich to be killed here also. Some came >from Kovno and Siauliai
in Lithuania. There were satellite labour camps, e.g. Kaiserwald.
Towards the end of the war most Jews in these camps were also killed.
The remainder were sent to Stutthof.
When Riga was liberated on October 13, 1944 150 Jews, including children,
came out of their hiding places.

I suggest you:
Subscribe to Latvia SIG discussion group on Jewish Gen
http://www1.jewishgen.org/latvia
Subscribe to their newsletter and get the back copies dealing with the
Holocaust.

If you are not in Israel get a professional Holocaust Researcher to
research at Yad Vashem for you. I can recommend one if you email me
privately.
--
Dr Saul Issroff
JGSGB
http://www.jgsgb.ort.org


Vilna Ghetto Census List #lithuania

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

Just to confirm, most, but not all, occupations are translated at the
end of volume two, so it is not usually necessary to ask the archives.

In message <LYR9319-21102--saul@swico.demon.co.uk>, LitvakSIG digest
<litvaksig@lyris.jewishgen.org> writes


If you purchase the books >from the Jewish Museum, since you live outside of
North America, ask them to translate the occupations for you and I am sure
they will do it. Ordinarily, they do not provide this service. The occupations
you listed are written in Lithuanian.
--
Dr Saul Issroff


Re: litvaksig digest: September 23, 1998 #lithuania

DOFRANK@...
 

Happy and Healthy New Year to all our friends at LitvakSig. What a job you
are doing! I am overwhelmed.

Doris & Don Frank, Miami
dofrank@aol.com


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Vilna Ghetto Census List #lithuania

Dr Saul Issroff <saul@...>
 

Just to confirm, most, but not all, occupations are translated at the
end of volume two, so it is not usually necessary to ask the archives.

In message <LYR9319-21102--saul@swico.demon.co.uk>, LitvakSIG digest
<litvaksig@lyris.jewishgen.org> writes


If you purchase the books >from the Jewish Museum, since you live outside of
North America, ask them to translate the occupations for you and I am sure
they will do it. Ordinarily, they do not provide this service. The occupations
you listed are written in Lithuanian.
--
Dr Saul Issroff


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: litvaksig digest: September 23, 1998 #lithuania

DOFRANK@...
 

Happy and Healthy New Year to all our friends at LitvakSig. What a job you
are doing! I am overwhelmed.

Doris & Don Frank, Miami
dofrank@aol.com


Re: *Re: Cause of Death -- in Hungarian #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

Debbi sent such a list back in February. Here is a copy:

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:30:11 -0600 (CST)
From: korman3@ix.netcom.com (Lawrence Korman)
Subject: They died of what?

I found the list. It appears that tudovesz was not the mystery word,
but the dreaded "horglob", which is an inflammation of heaven knows
what!

Aggkor - old age
Agyvelogyulladas - inflammation of the brain
Aszkor - consumption
Belhurut - intestinal disease
Cholera - cholera
Csecsrak - breast cancer
Gorcsrangas - jerking cramps
Gyomor rak - stomach cancer
Kanyaro - measles
Szivbaj - heart disease
Tudolob - pneumonia
Tudohudes - cold in lung
Tudovesz - tuberculosis
Typhus - typhus
Veleszuletett gyengeseg - inherited weakness
Vengelgyengules - final weakening
Vizkor - edema
Vorheny - scarlet fever
Veteles and elveteles - miscarriage

Debbi

at 23/09/98 - 01:39 -0300, melody gross wrote:
hoerg (o with accent) is bronchus or windpipe
hoerghurut is bronchitis
hoerglob is probably an inflamation of the bronchus
(Orszagh Laszlo angol-magyar nagyszot=E0r

best regards
gabor hirsch


Minneapolis-St. Paul JGS #hungary

Judith D.Bennett <benne034@...>
 

From: Judith Deutsch Bennett
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:42:17
To: H-Sig
Subject: Minneapolis-St. Paul JGS

Hi:

At present there is no Jewish Genealogical Society in the Twin Cities.
There are a number of people interested in starting one. If you would like
to be involved..or to be informed, please send an e-mail to:

Steven Chall steven.chall@juno.com

We hope to hear >from you, if you are out there.

Judy Deutsch Bennett







----- Forwarded Message Ends Here -----


Hungary SIG #Hungary Re: *Re: Cause of Death -- in Hungarian #hungary

Gabor Hirsch <hirsch@...>
 

Tom Venetianer schrieb:

Debbi sent such a list back in February. Here is a copy:

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:30:11 -0600 (CST)
From: korman3@ix.netcom.com (Lawrence Korman)
Subject: They died of what?

I found the list. It appears that tudovesz was not the mystery word,
but the dreaded "horglob", which is an inflammation of heaven knows
what!

Aggkor - old age
Agyvelogyulladas - inflammation of the brain
Aszkor - consumption
Belhurut - intestinal disease
Cholera - cholera
Csecsrak - breast cancer
Gorcsrangas - jerking cramps
Gyomor rak - stomach cancer
Kanyaro - measles
Szivbaj - heart disease
Tudolob - pneumonia
Tudohudes - cold in lung
Tudovesz - tuberculosis
Typhus - typhus
Veleszuletett gyengeseg - inherited weakness
Vengelgyengules - final weakening
Vizkor - edema
Vorheny - scarlet fever
Veteles and elveteles - miscarriage

Debbi

at 23/09/98 - 01:39 -0300, melody gross wrote:
hoerg (o with accent) is bronchus or windpipe
hoerghurut is bronchitis
hoerglob is probably an inflamation of the bronchus
(Orszagh Laszlo angol-magyar nagyszot=E0r

best regards
gabor hirsch


Hungary SIG #Hungary Minneapolis-St. Paul JGS #hungary

Judith D.Bennett <benne034@...>
 

From: Judith Deutsch Bennett
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:42:17
To: H-Sig
Subject: Minneapolis-St. Paul JGS

Hi:

At present there is no Jewish Genealogical Society in the Twin Cities.
There are a number of people interested in starting one. If you would like
to be involved..or to be informed, please send an e-mail to:

Steven Chall steven.chall@juno.com

We hope to hear >from you, if you are out there.

Judy Deutsch Bennett







----- Forwarded Message Ends Here -----


Translation #hungary

melody gross <melody@...>
 

Gevalt! What is "honglob", appearing as a cause of death in a record dated
1893 in Slovakia. Maybe it's some sort of lung condition? scarletina?

Many thanks --
Melody Amsel Gross
sunny Beersheva, Israel
melody@gimby.save-net.co.il
searching: AMSEL/Stropkov, Vraanov, Olka, Zbudska Bela, Humenne, Hertnik,
anywhere
RITTER/Chotca, Stropkov
BAUM/Stropkov
LANDAU/Humenne
ZAZULIA,BECKER,MORGENSTERN, POLLACK/Navastelitza, Chotin,
Klishkovitz
EINSTEIN/Radomyshl


Hungary SIG #Hungary Translation #hungary

melody gross <melody@...>
 

Gevalt! What is "honglob", appearing as a cause of death in a record dated
1893 in Slovakia. Maybe it's some sort of lung condition? scarletina?

Many thanks --
Melody Amsel Gross
sunny Beersheva, Israel
melody@gimby.save-net.co.il
searching: AMSEL/Stropkov, Vraanov, Olka, Zbudska Bela, Humenne, Hertnik,
anywhere
RITTER/Chotca, Stropkov
BAUM/Stropkov
LANDAU/Humenne
ZAZULIA,BECKER,MORGENSTERN, POLLACK/Navastelitza, Chotin,
Klishkovitz
EINSTEIN/Radomyshl


Cantor KATZ of Nurnberg, later in Nova Scotia, Labrador or Newfoundland #general

MBernet@...
 

Katz was the cantor at the orthodox synagogue (Essenweinstrasse) in Nurnberg,
Germany. He emigrated about 1937/38 and had a position in Newfoundland
(possibly Labrador or Nova Scotia). I recall him as a very good cantor and
assume he later obtained a position in Canada or the USA.

Does anyone have information on him or his son (Walter? Herbert?) b. ca 1930,
who was my classmate.

Thank you.

Michael Bernet


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Cantor KATZ of Nurnberg, later in Nova Scotia, Labrador or Newfoundland #general

MBernet@...
 

Katz was the cantor at the orthodox synagogue (Essenweinstrasse) in Nurnberg,
Germany. He emigrated about 1937/38 and had a position in Newfoundland
(possibly Labrador or Nova Scotia). I recall him as a very good cantor and
assume he later obtained a position in Canada or the USA.

Does anyone have information on him or his son (Walter? Herbert?) b. ca 1930,
who was my classmate.

Thank you.

Michael Bernet


Re: Names, Inexactitudes & Irrelevancies #general

MBernet@...
 

Chaim Harutz writes:
(SNIP)
<<1. A recent discussion occurred regarding the Hebrew word Gaon
(Gimel aleph vav nun-sofit). (SNIP)

==OK, I'm guilty here, I got involved in this one. We were discussing the
progression of the meaning of the word >from "Resh Metivte Ga'on Yaakov" to
"genius." We were all familiar with the current Israeli idimoatic use; our
essential question was "When did Ga'on acquire its modern Israeli meaning of
"genius." You have added something useful by mentioning it's been so used at
least 300 years. Can you give your sources? I assume Ben Yehuda had this
meaning; do you have access to BY and can you give us his sources?

<<2. There was a recent query regarding the origin of the name "Sima" -
referring to a woman originating in Eastern Europe. A number of postings came
in regarding this name, some of which were, at best, misleading or off the
point, and may even be, for all I know, grossly incorrect. (SNIP)

==I was the poster in question. I made it very clear that this was a
Sephardic dimunitive. You may be surprised to know that there are at least
one, possibly even two or more <g> readers of this list who have Sephardi
ancestors. You may be even more surprised that there were Sephardim in East
Europe (Bulgaria, of course, Serbia, Greece, Hungary, even Russia), and that
there was a cultural flow of Sephardic culture >from the Holy Land.

==I really fail to see how anyone asking whether Sima meant Sister in Yiddish
or was an alternative for Pearl, could be grievously misled by being told that
Sima was a common diminuitive among Sephardim for the feminine Simcha.

==Your comments
<<Despite my promise in the past to Dave Snyder not to get involved in this
type of argument, I've finally given in to anger and frustration regarding
some half-baked and pseudo-educated responses to queries about names, some of
which have been justifiably commented on by moderators. . . . What worries me
is those apparently "clever" people who post replies to the digest, which
appear to be detailed and erudite, but are frequently in error or misleading,
and sometimes even off the point.>>
are, to put it mildly offensive and misleading. I can really see no
justification for breaking your promise to Dave Snyder and
even less for your anger and frustration by your labeling of our discussion as
<< half-baked and pseudo-educated>>.

==Can we get back again to some civilized discussion and intercourse EVEN when
the proffered suggestions and help may deviate occasionally >from scientific
accuracy. They can be more helpful than acrimonious attacks. Incidentally, I
did not see your righteous anger when a number of posters reassured a gentile,
(inquiring if his ancestor might have been Jewish because HIS granpa had
called him Bubbele): "Of course he's Jewish, that's a Yiddish word and it
means grandmother." Now that is a response that deserved rebuttal for a
number of reasons including that the word is pan-Germanic for a little baby,
that grandmother and little baby are not synonymous in Yiddish or any other
language, and that nothing about Jewish ancestry can be inferred >from the fact
that someone calls someone else by a name that sounds like Yiddish (shall I
assume that all those Southern macho types known as Bubba have veins that flow
with Jewish blood?)

Michael Bernet, New York

MODERATOR NOTE: Although we had asked that all answers be private, this
exception has been made as it clarifies some of the points the original
poster had raised. Thread now closed.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Names, Inexactitudes & Irrelevancies #general

MBernet@...
 

Chaim Harutz writes:
(SNIP)
<<1. A recent discussion occurred regarding the Hebrew word Gaon
(Gimel aleph vav nun-sofit). (SNIP)

==OK, I'm guilty here, I got involved in this one. We were discussing the
progression of the meaning of the word >from "Resh Metivte Ga'on Yaakov" to
"genius." We were all familiar with the current Israeli idimoatic use; our
essential question was "When did Ga'on acquire its modern Israeli meaning of
"genius." You have added something useful by mentioning it's been so used at
least 300 years. Can you give your sources? I assume Ben Yehuda had this
meaning; do you have access to BY and can you give us his sources?

<<2. There was a recent query regarding the origin of the name "Sima" -
referring to a woman originating in Eastern Europe. A number of postings came
in regarding this name, some of which were, at best, misleading or off the
point, and may even be, for all I know, grossly incorrect. (SNIP)

==I was the poster in question. I made it very clear that this was a
Sephardic dimunitive. You may be surprised to know that there are at least
one, possibly even two or more <g> readers of this list who have Sephardi
ancestors. You may be even more surprised that there were Sephardim in East
Europe (Bulgaria, of course, Serbia, Greece, Hungary, even Russia), and that
there was a cultural flow of Sephardic culture >from the Holy Land.

==I really fail to see how anyone asking whether Sima meant Sister in Yiddish
or was an alternative for Pearl, could be grievously misled by being told that
Sima was a common diminuitive among Sephardim for the feminine Simcha.

==Your comments
<<Despite my promise in the past to Dave Snyder not to get involved in this
type of argument, I've finally given in to anger and frustration regarding
some half-baked and pseudo-educated responses to queries about names, some of
which have been justifiably commented on by moderators. . . . What worries me
is those apparently "clever" people who post replies to the digest, which
appear to be detailed and erudite, but are frequently in error or misleading,
and sometimes even off the point.>>
are, to put it mildly offensive and misleading. I can really see no
justification for breaking your promise to Dave Snyder and
even less for your anger and frustration by your labeling of our discussion as
<< half-baked and pseudo-educated>>.

==Can we get back again to some civilized discussion and intercourse EVEN when
the proffered suggestions and help may deviate occasionally >from scientific
accuracy. They can be more helpful than acrimonious attacks. Incidentally, I
did not see your righteous anger when a number of posters reassured a gentile,
(inquiring if his ancestor might have been Jewish because HIS granpa had
called him Bubbele): "Of course he's Jewish, that's a Yiddish word and it
means grandmother." Now that is a response that deserved rebuttal for a
number of reasons including that the word is pan-Germanic for a little baby,
that grandmother and little baby are not synonymous in Yiddish or any other
language, and that nothing about Jewish ancestry can be inferred >from the fact
that someone calls someone else by a name that sounds like Yiddish (shall I
assume that all those Southern macho types known as Bubba have veins that flow
with Jewish blood?)

Michael Bernet, New York

MODERATOR NOTE: Although we had asked that all answers be private, this
exception has been made as it clarifies some of the points the original
poster had raised. Thread now closed.