Date   

Need contact in Jerusalem #general

liss@...
 

Hi,

I am in touch with a relative in Jerusalem. Exchanging
letters seems slow. Would it be practical to email to
someone in Jerusalem and forward our correspondence
to each other. Otherwise, it is a two week minimum
turnaround.

It might take 2 or 3 roundtrips to straighten out my
family tree questions.

Maybe someone knows her or lives close by. Please contact me.

Thanks very much.

Stuart Liss


Searching BOGDANOWICZ from Stawiski-Grajewo #general

RKaminker <rkaminker@...>
 

I just found out that my Great Great Grandmother was Etka or Estera BOGDANOWICZ
from Stawiski Grajewo. She was born around 1830-1840 and was married to Arja
Leib LEWATYNSKY. Does any of this sound familiar?

Ron Kaminker
LA, CA


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Need contact in Jerusalem #general

liss@...
 

Hi,

I am in touch with a relative in Jerusalem. Exchanging
letters seems slow. Would it be practical to email to
someone in Jerusalem and forward our correspondence
to each other. Otherwise, it is a two week minimum
turnaround.

It might take 2 or 3 roundtrips to straighten out my
family tree questions.

Maybe someone knows her or lives close by. Please contact me.

Thanks very much.

Stuart Liss


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Searching BOGDANOWICZ from Stawiski-Grajewo #general

RKaminker <rkaminker@...>
 

I just found out that my Great Great Grandmother was Etka or Estera BOGDANOWICZ
from Stawiski Grajewo. She was born around 1830-1840 and was married to Arja
Leib LEWATYNSKY. Does any of this sound familiar?

Ron Kaminker
LA, CA


Re: Mystery Shtetl #general

Alexander Sharon <sharon@...>
 

Tom Venetianer wrote:

Look, this is really a *wild guess*, but how about the shtetl "Sednev",
today in Ukraine, but, in the last century, located in Galicia
(southeastern Poland).

Why? Because if a census interviewer would ask a person _who doesn't speak
English_ ">from which 'place' s/he came", the person could have answered
with "Pleijtsednev". "Pleijts" could be the yiddish phonetic for "place",
and what the person was trying to say is "I came >from a place called
Sednev". The censor could have taken it for "Pleijsegneb".
It remains the story about a newly emigrated to America traditional Jew from
Poland by the name Sean Fergusson.
"How come, you have such a name?" people asked him. "When I arrived, the
immigration official have asked my name. And I was so exited that I simply
forgot it. And I told him: "Shoyn forgossen"."

Alexander Sharon


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Mystery Shtetl #general

Alexander Sharon <sharon@...>
 

Tom Venetianer wrote:

Look, this is really a *wild guess*, but how about the shtetl "Sednev",
today in Ukraine, but, in the last century, located in Galicia
(southeastern Poland).

Why? Because if a census interviewer would ask a person _who doesn't speak
English_ ">from which 'place' s/he came", the person could have answered
with "Pleijtsednev". "Pleijts" could be the yiddish phonetic for "place",
and what the person was trying to say is "I came >from a place called
Sednev". The censor could have taken it for "Pleijsegneb".
It remains the story about a newly emigrated to America traditional Jew from
Poland by the name Sean Fergusson.
"How come, you have such a name?" people asked him. "When I arrived, the
immigration official have asked my name. And I was so exited that I simply
forgot it. And I told him: "Shoyn forgossen"."

Alexander Sharon


How Good Are YOUR Eyes? #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

I hope that someone out there has much better eyesight than I do. I've
tried to real ALL of the column names on my pgparents' ships' passenger
manifest lists, but I cannot read the headings on column #19 and #22.
I've tried using a magnifying glass, but the print is just too small and
too blurred to make out. I'm sure that one out you out there knows what
those two headings are.

Please share. I'm also sure that there are many others on this list who
probably do have or will have the same question, so I suppose that
posting the answer to the list might be helpful.

TIA,
Ricki Randall Zunk
Miami, FL


Given Names -- Question #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

My paternal grandparents entered the USA as "Basja" and "Osias" My pgm,
Basja, became Bessie. That's a given name that I am familiar with. My
pgm, Osias, became Samuel. Osias is not a name that I have ever heard
of until now. Does anyone know anything about the name of OSIAS? He
was born in Eastern Galicia, near Kozova.

Please advise if you can help me with this puzzle.

TIA,
(Mrs.) Ricki Randall Zunk
Miami, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen How Good Are YOUR Eyes? #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

I hope that someone out there has much better eyesight than I do. I've
tried to real ALL of the column names on my pgparents' ships' passenger
manifest lists, but I cannot read the headings on column #19 and #22.
I've tried using a magnifying glass, but the print is just too small and
too blurred to make out. I'm sure that one out you out there knows what
those two headings are.

Please share. I'm also sure that there are many others on this list who
probably do have or will have the same question, so I suppose that
posting the answer to the list might be helpful.

TIA,
Ricki Randall Zunk
Miami, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Given Names -- Question #general

Ricki L. Zunk <rickiz@...>
 

My paternal grandparents entered the USA as "Basja" and "Osias" My pgm,
Basja, became Bessie. That's a given name that I am familiar with. My
pgm, Osias, became Samuel. Osias is not a name that I have ever heard
of until now. Does anyone know anything about the name of OSIAS? He
was born in Eastern Galicia, near Kozova.

Please advise if you can help me with this puzzle.

TIA,
(Mrs.) Ricki Randall Zunk
Miami, FL


Re: Reunions #general

Bernard Levy <Bernie-Levy@...>
 

These post about reunions, together with do's and don'ts posted or in
referenced web sites are quite enlightening.

We recently had a "reunion", which we called the Levy Family Gathering
because the majority of the people had never met before. We only had
about 40+ attendees and it was held in the Social Room of my parents'
condominium building. It was also held on the day of my father's 91st
birthday so that was some of the impetus.

Since ours was relatively small, we didn't go thru all the management or
other issues brought up in this thread. It was co-chaired by myself and
a cousin whom I had never yet met. We communicated by phone and e-mail;
I took care of the genealogy and mailing of invitations, while he and
his wife took care of food and related items. It was held in NE
Philadelphia with many of the attendees coming >from there and the
suburbs, while some came >from as far as southern California.

Bernie Levy
Stamford, CT
bernie-levy@prodigy.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Reunions #general

Bernard Levy <Bernie-Levy@...>
 

These post about reunions, together with do's and don'ts posted or in
referenced web sites are quite enlightening.

We recently had a "reunion", which we called the Levy Family Gathering
because the majority of the people had never met before. We only had
about 40+ attendees and it was held in the Social Room of my parents'
condominium building. It was also held on the day of my father's 91st
birthday so that was some of the impetus.

Since ours was relatively small, we didn't go thru all the management or
other issues brought up in this thread. It was co-chaired by myself and
a cousin whom I had never yet met. We communicated by phone and e-mail;
I took care of the genealogy and mailing of invitations, while he and
his wife took care of food and related items. It was held in NE
Philadelphia with many of the attendees coming >from there and the
suburbs, while some came >from as far as southern California.

Bernie Levy
Stamford, CT
bernie-levy@prodigy.net


Re: Minors Travelling Alone #general

David Goldman <davic@...>
 

As per Jane's comments below, I want to add that my own grandfather was a
minor when he travelled alone >from Halifax Nova Scotia to Calgary Alberta
way back in 1922, to join his family. He was 15 when he got to Halifax with
them by ship >from Liverpool. At Halifax they discovered he had a *hangnail*
on his ring finger and wouldn't let him through with the rest of his family!

He stayed in some kind of hostel, on a floor all by himself for two weeks,
until they let him go on to Calgary. Even at that tender age, Grandpa was a
tough cookie. Although he spent hours in a room all by himself crying, he
promised himself he would never go back to Russia, and if they sent him
back, he would jump off the ship!

Happily, Grandpa got on the train for Calgary, and stopped on the way in
Montreal where HIAS gave him food and a chocolate bar. He ate the chocolate
very slowly, and it lasted till he got to Calgary!

David Goldman
davic@erols.com

Many minors did travel alone....their names are often listed on
the last page of the Passenger Lists, entitled Detained Aliens,
because they were held until a parent or other relative picked
them up....my Aunt was about 10 when she travelled alone >from
Derewnia to NY, and there is a notation on the Detained Aliens


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Minors Travelling Alone #general

David Goldman <davic@...>
 

As per Jane's comments below, I want to add that my own grandfather was a
minor when he travelled alone >from Halifax Nova Scotia to Calgary Alberta
way back in 1922, to join his family. He was 15 when he got to Halifax with
them by ship >from Liverpool. At Halifax they discovered he had a *hangnail*
on his ring finger and wouldn't let him through with the rest of his family!

He stayed in some kind of hostel, on a floor all by himself for two weeks,
until they let him go on to Calgary. Even at that tender age, Grandpa was a
tough cookie. Although he spent hours in a room all by himself crying, he
promised himself he would never go back to Russia, and if they sent him
back, he would jump off the ship!

Happily, Grandpa got on the train for Calgary, and stopped on the way in
Montreal where HIAS gave him food and a chocolate bar. He ate the chocolate
very slowly, and it lasted till he got to Calgary!

David Goldman
davic@erols.com

Many minors did travel alone....their names are often listed on
the last page of the Passenger Lists, entitled Detained Aliens,
because they were held until a parent or other relative picked
them up....my Aunt was about 10 when she travelled alone >from
Derewnia to NY, and there is a notation on the Detained Aliens


Ben or Bat #lithuania

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Dear LitvakSIGers,

I received an e-mail message >from one of those involved with the
management of the LitvakSIG Uezd projects, stating that most people
seem to feel that names like "Leah bat Moshe" should be entered in the
Spouse field of the new data bases which are being prepared. At the
time, this seemed to make sense to me. However, I subsequently
received an e-mail message >from another person involved in this same
project, giving four reasons why that should NOT be done.

Upon thinking about this a bit, I decided that I couldn't really decide
which procedure I agreed with! It was a case of "You're right, and
you're right!" in accord with a good Jewish tradition.

I now believe that it would benefit me, and perhaps others as well, if
some good neutral soul would sit down and present us with the arguments
on both sides, so that we (and particularly, I) could make an
intelligent decision on how I really do feel about this matter. If
this is not possible for any reason, then perhaps the two staunchest
supporters of these two opposing positions should each clearly state
his/her own arguments. This would help me because I am one of those
who has and will continue to input these data.

As I understand it, all of the fields (except for three) to which data
are now being inputted use only the original 1858 Revision List data
which were entered by the original recorder of the data in 1858, as
closely as one can transliterate/translate those data. The three
exceptions are the new fields for: Spouse, Surname2, and Other
Comments. The Spouse field contains the name of the spouse of the
person of the current record. The Surname2 field contains the
surname(s) of other families that also lived in the same household as
the current Head of Household and his family. And the Other Comments
field contains comments, error notes, questions, and other
miscellaneous data; I think that this field is not to be construed as
one of the original fields filled in by the recorder.

If the above is correct, then the question before us does not involve
"tainting" the original data with deduced, implied, or other types of
data, since these would be put into one of the three added fields, and
we must assume that these will be clearly marked in the posted data
bases as not having been in the original data sheets. So, for example,
there should not be a problem that someone will mistakenly assume that
the original data contained Hebrew words (bat/bas or ben) or Hebrew
names, when in fact the original names given to the recorder were
probably Yiddish or commonly-used names, and not those Hebrew names
usually reserved for use in an aliyah in the shul.

On the other hand, if the original field data did contain the same
information as would be put into the additional three fields, then one
could argue over what has been gained by putting in "Leah bat Moshe",
as opposed to what has been lost in convenience, file size, and
download time by adding an extra column of data that might really not
be necessary. Do we gain in convenience in using the final data bases,
clarity, or what?

I do think it would help us a lot if the arguments for and against were
carefully presented in this forum. TIA.

Regards,

Jerry

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
E-mail: jerry@vms.huji.ac.il
Researching:
AIZIKOWITZ, MARCUS, MICHELOVICH, MIRVIS Baisogala/Datnuva Lithuania
ESTERSON, NORINSKY-Berdichev Ukraine
KRETZMER, SWEETGALL-Zhaimel/Birzai, Lithuania
HELL, WAGENHEIM-Riga/Bauske, Latvia
Visit the ESRA web site:
<http://www.esra.org.il/>


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Ben or Bat #lithuania

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Dear LitvakSIGers,

I received an e-mail message >from one of those involved with the
management of the LitvakSIG Uezd projects, stating that most people
seem to feel that names like "Leah bat Moshe" should be entered in the
Spouse field of the new data bases which are being prepared. At the
time, this seemed to make sense to me. However, I subsequently
received an e-mail message >from another person involved in this same
project, giving four reasons why that should NOT be done.

Upon thinking about this a bit, I decided that I couldn't really decide
which procedure I agreed with! It was a case of "You're right, and
you're right!" in accord with a good Jewish tradition.

I now believe that it would benefit me, and perhaps others as well, if
some good neutral soul would sit down and present us with the arguments
on both sides, so that we (and particularly, I) could make an
intelligent decision on how I really do feel about this matter. If
this is not possible for any reason, then perhaps the two staunchest
supporters of these two opposing positions should each clearly state
his/her own arguments. This would help me because I am one of those
who has and will continue to input these data.

As I understand it, all of the fields (except for three) to which data
are now being inputted use only the original 1858 Revision List data
which were entered by the original recorder of the data in 1858, as
closely as one can transliterate/translate those data. The three
exceptions are the new fields for: Spouse, Surname2, and Other
Comments. The Spouse field contains the name of the spouse of the
person of the current record. The Surname2 field contains the
surname(s) of other families that also lived in the same household as
the current Head of Household and his family. And the Other Comments
field contains comments, error notes, questions, and other
miscellaneous data; I think that this field is not to be construed as
one of the original fields filled in by the recorder.

If the above is correct, then the question before us does not involve
"tainting" the original data with deduced, implied, or other types of
data, since these would be put into one of the three added fields, and
we must assume that these will be clearly marked in the posted data
bases as not having been in the original data sheets. So, for example,
there should not be a problem that someone will mistakenly assume that
the original data contained Hebrew words (bat/bas or ben) or Hebrew
names, when in fact the original names given to the recorder were
probably Yiddish or commonly-used names, and not those Hebrew names
usually reserved for use in an aliyah in the shul.

On the other hand, if the original field data did contain the same
information as would be put into the additional three fields, then one
could argue over what has been gained by putting in "Leah bat Moshe",
as opposed to what has been lost in convenience, file size, and
download time by adding an extra column of data that might really not
be necessary. Do we gain in convenience in using the final data bases,
clarity, or what?

I do think it would help us a lot if the arguments for and against were
carefully presented in this forum. TIA.

Regards,

Jerry

Prof. G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel
E-mail: jerry@vms.huji.ac.il
Researching:
AIZIKOWITZ, MARCUS, MICHELOVICH, MIRVIS Baisogala/Datnuva Lithuania
ESTERSON, NORINSKY-Berdichev Ukraine
KRETZMER, SWEETGALL-Zhaimel/Birzai, Lithuania
HELL, WAGENHEIM-Riga/Bauske, Latvia
Visit the ESRA web site:
<http://www.esra.org.il/>


Stessa/Stossa #lithuania

Arnold Davidson <arnoldbd@...>
 

One of the first persons in our family history (a woman) has the name of
Stessa or Stossa. This name does not reappear in any of the families whose
history I know. Can anyone tell me the origin of history of this name,
which may be a Russian or Slavic name, and what its Hebrew or Yiddish
equivalent might be.

Arnold


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Stessa/Stossa #lithuania

Arnold Davidson <arnoldbd@...>
 

One of the first persons in our family history (a woman) has the name of
Stessa or Stossa. This name does not reappear in any of the families whose
history I know. Can anyone tell me the origin of history of this name,
which may be a Russian or Slavic name, and what its Hebrew or Yiddish
equivalent might be.

Arnold


Re: "Bar" and "Bat" #lithuania

Anita Berk <anitab@...>
 

Hello everyone:

Sorry, I guess I am not explaining myself well. I'll try again:

I think you should copy the data and field names >from the revision lists
without any additions, interpretation or commentary. I do not think you
should add any fields. If the revision lists do not use the terms "ben"
and "bat" and/or those fields do not exist, then you should not invent
them.

Why don't you just list their name exactly as listed on the revision
list?
This is exactly what we are doing. The "Bar" and "Bat" designations are in a
separate field for "Spouse"
which doesn't exist in the Revision Lists.
If they don't exist, then I don't think you should create them. You are
then interpreting data, not just reporting data.

As we
noted in our first letter, we "created" this field for clarification, and
intend
to indicate this in the introductory notes to the database. If you read that
post again, you will find where we have stated this.
Yes, I read that. I just do not agree with your philosophy.

So far, the consensus seems to be for using this additional field, but, we'd
like to hear >from more people before proceeding.

Anita Berk
anitab@starmail.com


Lithuania SIG #Lithuania Re: "Bar" and "Bat" #lithuania

Anita Berk <anitab@...>
 

Hello everyone:

Sorry, I guess I am not explaining myself well. I'll try again:

I think you should copy the data and field names >from the revision lists
without any additions, interpretation or commentary. I do not think you
should add any fields. If the revision lists do not use the terms "ben"
and "bat" and/or those fields do not exist, then you should not invent
them.

Why don't you just list their name exactly as listed on the revision
list?
This is exactly what we are doing. The "Bar" and "Bat" designations are in a
separate field for "Spouse"
which doesn't exist in the Revision Lists.
If they don't exist, then I don't think you should create them. You are
then interpreting data, not just reporting data.

As we
noted in our first letter, we "created" this field for clarification, and
intend
to indicate this in the introductory notes to the database. If you read that
post again, you will find where we have stated this.
Yes, I read that. I just do not agree with your philosophy.

So far, the consensus seems to be for using this additional field, but, we'd
like to hear >from more people before proceeding.

Anita Berk
anitab@starmail.com