Date   
Re: Russian Translations #belarus

Elsebeth Paikin
 

At 12:53 21-02-2006, Sheila Grossnass wrote:
There is a site for machine-generated translations to and >from Russian
and other languages. Perhaps Google will find it for you.
You might be thinking of
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
and it is OK if you need translations of ordinary, daily expressions.

I received a 30 page report in Russian >from the Minsk Archives and I
getting Babelfish to translate it. It was hilarious what came out of
it! It obviously only knows present day Russian - It made weird guesses
when translating many or the old Russian words/phrases.

It was even worse when it came across Jewish names!
Just one example: Baruch was translated "Of Helmet" (sic!)

However, with that very poor translation and the Russian text,
a Russian alphabet I could make *something* useful out of it
- such as names and dates.

Later I had it translated and that was quite a different story.

Just my two censt.

Best regards
Elsebeth





--
Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark,
e-mail: elsebeth@...
--

Belarus SIG #Belarus Re:Russian Translations #belarus

Elsebeth Paikin
 

At 12:53 21-02-2006, Sheila Grossnass wrote:
There is a site for machine-generated translations to and >from Russian
and other languages. Perhaps Google will find it for you.
You might be thinking of
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
and it is OK if you need translations of ordinary, daily expressions.

I received a 30 page report in Russian >from the Minsk Archives and I
getting Babelfish to translate it. It was hilarious what came out of
it! It obviously only knows present day Russian - It made weird guesses
when translating many or the old Russian words/phrases.

It was even worse when it came across Jewish names!
Just one example: Baruch was translated "Of Helmet" (sic!)

However, with that very poor translation and the Russian text,
a Russian alphabet I could make *something* useful out of it
- such as names and dates.

Later I had it translated and that was quite a different story.

Just my two censt.

Best regards
Elsebeth





--
Elsebeth Paikin, Copenhagen, Denmark,
e-mail: elsebeth@...
--

Re: Van DANTZIG, DANZIGER #danzig #gdansk #germany #poland

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Note that most Jews named ENGLAENDER or HOLLAENDER didn't come >from
England or Holland either; or BERLINERs >from Berlin, even. Surnames were
often taken with less gravity than, say, Hebrew names. Someone who
frequently (perhaps once every few years) had business in Danzig might
have been nicknamed "der Danziger" to distinguish him >from the two other
Jakov ben Josefs in town. The name might have stuck, and in 1812 (or
whenever) would have been a reasonable choice when fixed surname
adoption was mandated.

For what it's worth, there were several DANZIGER families among Upper
Silesian Jews, including one connected to my own family. That family's
origin was in Koenigsberg. Go figure.

[Especially disappointing: SCHWEITZER can merely mean "dairyman," i.e.,
does not necessarily have any regional connotations whatever.]

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ
julierog@...

Micheline GUTMANN wrote:

... snip... As for the DANCIGER name, there were several
in Amsterdam, even before mine. ... snip...
That means that people may be called DANCIGER only because
they came through Dantzig and not because they lived there.
... snip...

Danzig/Gedansk SIG #Danzig #Gdansk #Germany #Poland Re: Van DANTZIG, DANZIGER #poland #danzig #gdansk #germany

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Note that most Jews named ENGLAENDER or HOLLAENDER didn't come >from
England or Holland either; or BERLINERs >from Berlin, even. Surnames were
often taken with less gravity than, say, Hebrew names. Someone who
frequently (perhaps once every few years) had business in Danzig might
have been nicknamed "der Danziger" to distinguish him >from the two other
Jakov ben Josefs in town. The name might have stuck, and in 1812 (or
whenever) would have been a reasonable choice when fixed surname
adoption was mandated.

For what it's worth, there were several DANZIGER families among Upper
Silesian Jews, including one connected to my own family. That family's
origin was in Koenigsberg. Go figure.

[Especially disappointing: SCHWEITZER can merely mean "dairyman," i.e.,
does not necessarily have any regional connotations whatever.]

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ
julierog@...

Micheline GUTMANN wrote:

... snip... As for the DANCIGER name, there were several
in Amsterdam, even before mine. ... snip...
That means that people may be called DANCIGER only because
they came through Dantzig and not because they lived there.
... snip...

Re: Danzig/Gdansk society plots #poland #danzig #gdansk #germany

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Dear Steven:

Thanks for the site cite! Now, try "Frankfurt", "Breslau," Hamburg,"
etc. None for those cities either--all with much larger Jewish populations!

Check out http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Danzig.html
for population figures. Big city, but before WW I, not that many Jews.
During the great wave of immigration to America, when most of the burial
societies, etc. were formed, Danzig never had more than 3000 Jews to
begin with. Some of them emigrated to America, but not all that many.
When they left, they most often left for Berlin.

I was surprised that there *was* a Berlin Landsmannschaft. Only one,
though. I'll have to find out more. The emigration >from Russia to
Berlin in the 1880s was such that there would have been enough who moved
on to New York to found such a society; but that's just a guess.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ
julierog@...

Steven Lasky wrote:

Can somebody tell me why I cannot find a single society burial plot
listing on the www.jgsny.org database that is associated with
Danzig/Gdansk? ...snip...

Danzig/Gedansk SIG #Danzig #Gdansk #Germany #Poland Re: Danzig/Gdansk society plots #poland #danzig #gdansk #germany

Roger Lustig <julierog@...>
 

Dear Steven:

Thanks for the site cite! Now, try "Frankfurt", "Breslau," Hamburg,"
etc. None for those cities either--all with much larger Jewish populations!

Check out http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Danzig.html
for population figures. Big city, but before WW I, not that many Jews.
During the great wave of immigration to America, when most of the burial
societies, etc. were formed, Danzig never had more than 3000 Jews to
begin with. Some of them emigrated to America, but not all that many.
When they left, they most often left for Berlin.

I was surprised that there *was* a Berlin Landsmannschaft. Only one,
though. I'll have to find out more. The emigration >from Russia to
Berlin in the 1880s was such that there would have been enough who moved
on to New York to found such a society; but that's just a guess.

Roger Lustig
Princeton, NJ
julierog@...

Steven Lasky wrote:

Can somebody tell me why I cannot find a single society burial plot
listing on the www.jgsny.org database that is associated with
Danzig/Gdansk? ...snip...

Seeking GILLET or GILLETT Hartford Ct. #usa

Michael and Julie Weigel <theweigels@...>
 

Hello genners:
I am looking for more information for the following surname(s): GYLET,
GYLETT, GYLETTE, GILLET GILETT family line.

I found an exact match on the "Family Tree of the Jewish People" database
where Jeremiah and Joseph GILLET (my 9th great-grandfather) are brothers,
but my email to JewishGen ID# 46584 has gone unanswered.

1. Jacque De Gylet (b.1549) Bergerac, Guyenne, France
sp: Jeanne Mestre (b.1552) Spitalfields London, England
2. Richard Gylett (d.1600) Devonshire, England
sp: Joan Enberg (b.1555;m.1576) Chaffcombe, Somerset, England
3. Willem Gylette (b.1574;d.1641) Of Chaffcombe, Somerset, England
sp: Mrs. William Gylette (b.1578;m.1604;d.1681) Of Chaffcombe, Somerset,
England
4. Jonathan Gilett (b.1609;d.1677) Chaffcombe, Somerset, England
sp: Mary (Dolbere) Dolbiar (b.1607;m.1634;d.1686) Colyton, Devon, England

Children of Jonathan Gilet and Mary (Dolbere) Dolbiar's born in Windsor,
Hartford Ct. USA
Jonathan GILLETT Born: 1634 Died: 1708
Cornelius GILLETT Born: 1636 Died: 1711
Mary GILLETT Born: 1636 Died: 1719
Hannah GILLETT Born: 1639 Died: 1711
***Joseph GILLETT Born: 1641 Died: 1675 (my 9th great-grandfather)
Samuel G. GILLETT Born: 1642/1643 Died: 1676
John GILLETT Born: 1644 Died: 1682
Abigail GILLETT Born: 1646 Died: 1648/1649
**Jeremiah GILLET Born: 1647/1648 Died: 1692/1693
Josiah GILLETT Born: 1650 Died: 1736

**Children of Jeremiah GILLET and Deborah BARTLETT b. 1666 d. 1753 in
Hartford, Ct.
Deborah GILLET Born: 6 Aug 1686, Died: 22 Apr 1693
Abigail GILLET Born: 21 Feb 1687, Died: 16 Feb 1689
Jeremiah GILLET Born: Abt 1688, Died: 21 Apr 1692
Milford GILLET Born: Abt 1690,
Rachel GILLET Born: Abt 1692, Died: 28 Jan 1768

5. ***Joseph GILLETT (b.1641;d.1675) Windsor, Connecticut
sp: Elizabeth Hawkes (b.1647;m.1663;d.1681) Windsor, Hartford,
Connecticut
6. Joseph GILLETT (b.1644;d.1745) Windsor, Connecticut
sp: Ester Gull (b.1665;m.1687;d.1691) Hadley, Hampshire, Massachussetts
7. Elizabeth GILLETT (b.1689;d.1753) Deerfield, Connecticut (my 7th
great-grandmother)
sp: Ebenezer Marsh (b.1687;m.1707;d.1747) Hatfield, Hampshire,
Massachussetts

Anybody with a connection or further information into the history of these
people would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.


Michael Weigel theweigels@... Goose Creek, SC (15 miles >from Charleston)

Early American SIG #USA Seeking GILLET or GILLETT Hartford Ct. #usa

Michael and Julie Weigel <theweigels@...>
 

Hello genners:
I am looking for more information for the following surname(s): GYLET,
GYLETT, GYLETTE, GILLET GILETT family line.

I found an exact match on the "Family Tree of the Jewish People" database
where Jeremiah and Joseph GILLET (my 9th great-grandfather) are brothers,
but my email to JewishGen ID# 46584 has gone unanswered.

1. Jacque De Gylet (b.1549) Bergerac, Guyenne, France
sp: Jeanne Mestre (b.1552) Spitalfields London, England
2. Richard Gylett (d.1600) Devonshire, England
sp: Joan Enberg (b.1555;m.1576) Chaffcombe, Somerset, England
3. Willem Gylette (b.1574;d.1641) Of Chaffcombe, Somerset, England
sp: Mrs. William Gylette (b.1578;m.1604;d.1681) Of Chaffcombe, Somerset,
England
4. Jonathan Gilett (b.1609;d.1677) Chaffcombe, Somerset, England
sp: Mary (Dolbere) Dolbiar (b.1607;m.1634;d.1686) Colyton, Devon, England

Children of Jonathan Gilet and Mary (Dolbere) Dolbiar's born in Windsor,
Hartford Ct. USA
Jonathan GILLETT Born: 1634 Died: 1708
Cornelius GILLETT Born: 1636 Died: 1711
Mary GILLETT Born: 1636 Died: 1719
Hannah GILLETT Born: 1639 Died: 1711
***Joseph GILLETT Born: 1641 Died: 1675 (my 9th great-grandfather)
Samuel G. GILLETT Born: 1642/1643 Died: 1676
John GILLETT Born: 1644 Died: 1682
Abigail GILLETT Born: 1646 Died: 1648/1649
**Jeremiah GILLET Born: 1647/1648 Died: 1692/1693
Josiah GILLETT Born: 1650 Died: 1736

**Children of Jeremiah GILLET and Deborah BARTLETT b. 1666 d. 1753 in
Hartford, Ct.
Deborah GILLET Born: 6 Aug 1686, Died: 22 Apr 1693
Abigail GILLET Born: 21 Feb 1687, Died: 16 Feb 1689
Jeremiah GILLET Born: Abt 1688, Died: 21 Apr 1692
Milford GILLET Born: Abt 1690,
Rachel GILLET Born: Abt 1692, Died: 28 Jan 1768

5. ***Joseph GILLETT (b.1641;d.1675) Windsor, Connecticut
sp: Elizabeth Hawkes (b.1647;m.1663;d.1681) Windsor, Hartford,
Connecticut
6. Joseph GILLETT (b.1644;d.1745) Windsor, Connecticut
sp: Ester Gull (b.1665;m.1687;d.1691) Hadley, Hampshire, Massachussetts
7. Elizabeth GILLETT (b.1689;d.1753) Deerfield, Connecticut (my 7th
great-grandmother)
sp: Ebenezer Marsh (b.1687;m.1707;d.1747) Hatfield, Hampshire,
Massachussetts

Anybody with a connection or further information into the history of these
people would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.


Michael Weigel theweigels@... Goose Creek, SC (15 miles >from Charleston)

Sharsheret Hadorot, February 2006 #germany

Klausner
 

The February 2006 issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel
Genealogical Society, just appeared, containing the following articles:

The ROSSI, De Rossi Family >from Jerusalem to Rome and >from Rome via a Long
Trip to Eretz Yisrael, by Leah Artom

GELLES of Brody and some FRAENKEL - HOROWITZ Connections, by Edward Gelles

Casa Shalom -The Institute for Marrano-Anusim Studies Gan Yavneh Israel, by
Gloria Mound
Family Names in Israel by Chanan Rapaport
BELFER Family Reunion An Example of Jewish Identification, by Harriet Kasow
Report of the Activities of the Sephardim-SIG of the Israel Genealogical
Society for 2004-2005, by Mathidle Tagger, Coordinator of Sephardim SIG

The Genealogical Holdings of the Jewish National and University Library, A
Visit to the Library, by Gilda Kurtzman and Susan Edel
South African Center for Jewish Migration and Genealogy Studies, by Beryl Baleson
The "Arolsen Files" as a Research Source, by Sherry Kisos
The Granddaughter Who Came on Aliyah with Her Grandmother, by Yehuda Klausner

Yocheved Klausner, Editor www.isragen.org.il
Sharsheret Hadorot (Hebrew and English) Israel Genealogical Society (IGS)

German SIG #Germany Sharsheret Hadorot, February 2006 #germany

Klausner
 

The February 2006 issue of Sharsheret Hadorot, the Journal of the Israel
Genealogical Society, just appeared, containing the following articles:

The ROSSI, De Rossi Family >from Jerusalem to Rome and >from Rome via a Long
Trip to Eretz Yisrael, by Leah Artom

GELLES of Brody and some FRAENKEL - HOROWITZ Connections, by Edward Gelles

Casa Shalom -The Institute for Marrano-Anusim Studies Gan Yavneh Israel, by
Gloria Mound
Family Names in Israel by Chanan Rapaport
BELFER Family Reunion An Example of Jewish Identification, by Harriet Kasow
Report of the Activities of the Sephardim-SIG of the Israel Genealogical
Society for 2004-2005, by Mathidle Tagger, Coordinator of Sephardim SIG

The Genealogical Holdings of the Jewish National and University Library, A
Visit to the Library, by Gilda Kurtzman and Susan Edel
South African Center for Jewish Migration and Genealogy Studies, by Beryl Baleson
The "Arolsen Files" as a Research Source, by Sherry Kisos
The Granddaughter Who Came on Aliyah with Her Grandmother, by Yehuda Klausner

Yocheved Klausner, Editor www.isragen.org.il
Sharsheret Hadorot (Hebrew and English) Israel Genealogical Society (IGS)

Re: Given Names Ephraim and Friedrich #germany

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 2/21/2006 geoff_kaiser@... writes:
"What is the linkage between Ephraim and Friedrich? I would think that Fritz is
just an anglicised version of one or both names."

==How about 'Fraim and Friedrich. They sound quite similar and it is highly
reasonable to assume that a boy given the Hebrew name of his Ephraim
grandfather would be named Friedrich on his German birth certificate.

==The English form for Friedrich is Frederick. Fritz is not anglicised
anything; it is the common Teutonic kinnuy for a Friedrich, as Frantz is the
Teutonic kinnuy for a Franzis or Francis, or Frank.

Michael Bernet, New York

German SIG #Germany Re: Given Names Ephraim and Friedrich #germany

MBernet@...
 

In a message dated 2/21/2006 geoff_kaiser@... writes:
"What is the linkage between Ephraim and Friedrich? I would think that Fritz is
just an anglicised version of one or both names."

==How about 'Fraim and Friedrich. They sound quite similar and it is highly
reasonable to assume that a boy given the Hebrew name of his Ephraim
grandfather would be named Friedrich on his German birth certificate.

==The English form for Friedrich is Frederick. Fritz is not anglicised
anything; it is the common Teutonic kinnuy for a Friedrich, as Frantz is the
Teutonic kinnuy for a Franzis or Francis, or Frank.

Michael Bernet, New York

Re: Given Names Ephraim and Friedrich #germany

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Geoff Kaiser of Australia posted as follows:

"I have recently obtained information that suggestes that an ancestor
of mine with the name of Ephraim or Fritz, according to the anecdotal
family information, was more officially know as Friedrich.

He was born in Ostrowo in 1899 and went to Palestine in 1936. It is the
Palestinian documents that I have recently received that have him as
Friedrich. I am very sure it is the same person for a number of reasons.

What are the thoughts of members on these names. What is the linkage
between Ephraim and Friedrich. I would think that Fritz is just an
anglicised version of one or both names."


Links used informally by European Jews between various given names varied
from country to country. For example, in Germany, there was a definite
tendency for men who had the Hebrew name Efrayim to adopt the German
secular name Fritz. However, this tendency was much lighter in Poland, to
the point that it would need to be classified as rare.

When one discusses the possibility of the same man using the Hebrew name
Efrayim, and also the two German secular names Fritz and
Friederich/Friedrich (or one of its variations), similar comments can be
made. The link here, in this particular case, in the minds of 19th century
European Jews, was apparently the consonantal sound of the letter "F",
particularly when combined into the two-letter sound "FR".

Note that the two names Fritz and Friederich have equal weights in
countries where German was spoken, that is, they were both full German
secular names that could be used as *stand-alone* names. BUT, it was also
the case that European Jews did use the German secular name Fritz as a
*nickname* for the German secular name Friederich, and this usage did
sometimes find its way into archival documents. The latter usage has been
well documented statistically by Divorce Rabbis in 19th century Europe.

So, what one can conclude is that if one finds in archives, persons with
one or the other (or two of these names in combination), then it gives you
a "hunting license" -- that is, it is a suggestion of a line of further
research that should be done to verify that a connection exists by
corroborating other data factors common to the several persons (e.g., dates
of birth or death, spouse's or children's names).

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel

JRI Poland #Poland Re: Given Names Ephraim and Friedrich #poland

Prof. G. L. Esterson <jerry@...>
 

Geoff Kaiser of Australia posted as follows:

"I have recently obtained information that suggestes that an ancestor
of mine with the name of Ephraim or Fritz, according to the anecdotal
family information, was more officially know as Friedrich.

He was born in Ostrowo in 1899 and went to Palestine in 1936. It is the
Palestinian documents that I have recently received that have him as
Friedrich. I am very sure it is the same person for a number of reasons.

What are the thoughts of members on these names. What is the linkage
between Ephraim and Friedrich. I would think that Fritz is just an
anglicised version of one or both names."


Links used informally by European Jews between various given names varied
from country to country. For example, in Germany, there was a definite
tendency for men who had the Hebrew name Efrayim to adopt the German
secular name Fritz. However, this tendency was much lighter in Poland, to
the point that it would need to be classified as rare.

When one discusses the possibility of the same man using the Hebrew name
Efrayim, and also the two German secular names Fritz and
Friederich/Friedrich (or one of its variations), similar comments can be
made. The link here, in this particular case, in the minds of 19th century
European Jews, was apparently the consonantal sound of the letter "F",
particularly when combined into the two-letter sound "FR".

Note that the two names Fritz and Friederich have equal weights in
countries where German was spoken, that is, they were both full German
secular names that could be used as *stand-alone* names. BUT, it was also
the case that European Jews did use the German secular name Fritz as a
*nickname* for the German secular name Friederich, and this usage did
sometimes find its way into archival documents. The latter usage has been
well documented statistically by Divorce Rabbis in 19th century Europe.

So, what one can conclude is that if one finds in archives, persons with
one or the other (or two of these names in combination), then it gives you
a "hunting license" -- that is, it is a suggestion of a line of further
research that should be done to verify that a connection exists by
corroborating other data factors common to the several persons (e.g., dates
of birth or death, spouse's or children's names).

Professor G. L. Esterson, Ra'anana, Israel

POLLAK / FRIED #austria-czech

Ludwig Marbach <lmarbach@...>
 

Dear all!

I'm searching again for by ancestors! I have a "Moses
POLLAK" married to "Saly/Sara/Rosina FRIED". Moses
Pollak lived probably in Markwaretz but another
document learned me that he was born in
Valasske-Mezerici (close to Olomouc), later he lived
in Kalladei (Kolodeje) and died in Blatna. Sara Fried
was born in Kalladei. Her mother was a “Sara” or
“Genendel” and her father the “Pinkeljude von
Kalladei”. Maybe his name was “Abraham FRIED” but I am
not sure! Moses and Saly Pollak, both born about 1810,
had a daughter, Rosalia. She was born on 10.05.1839 in
Kalladei.

Does anyone know about this family? Does Rosalia have
brothers and sisters?

Regards,
Ludwig Marbach, Austria

Landesgericht Wien #austria-czech

Charlie Roberts <charlie.roberts@...>
 

On some of the entries for the Austrian DOEW database of Holocaust victims
the place of death is given as Landesgericht, Wien. The literal translation
is District Court, Vienna. Does this mean that the victims were sentenced to
death at that court, or the death notified by the court or murdered there.
I would appreciate information regarding this.

Charlie Roberts (London, England)

Researching AUFRICHTIG, ASCHENBERGER, WODAK, GERSTL, LOCKSCHAN,
DRAHOS-FLISSIG, FRANKEL/FRANKL, HOLZER, HUSSERL, KLEIN, KRAKAUER, KUTHAN,
KURZER, SOBOTKA, STEIN, WAS/WASS, WIEGE, WIPPERICH in Boskowitz/Boskowice,
Czechoslovakia, Vienna.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech POLLAK / FRIED #austria-czech

Ludwig Marbach <lmarbach@...>
 

Dear all!

I'm searching again for by ancestors! I have a "Moses
POLLAK" married to "Saly/Sara/Rosina FRIED". Moses
Pollak lived probably in Markwaretz but another
document learned me that he was born in
Valasske-Mezerici (close to Olomouc), later he lived
in Kalladei (Kolodeje) and died in Blatna. Sara Fried
was born in Kalladei. Her mother was a “Sara” or
“Genendel” and her father the “Pinkeljude von
Kalladei”. Maybe his name was “Abraham FRIED” but I am
not sure! Moses and Saly Pollak, both born about 1810,
had a daughter, Rosalia. She was born on 10.05.1839 in
Kalladei.

Does anyone know about this family? Does Rosalia have
brothers and sisters?

Regards,
Ludwig Marbach, Austria

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Landesgericht Wien #austria-czech

Charlie Roberts <charlie.roberts@...>
 

On some of the entries for the Austrian DOEW database of Holocaust victims
the place of death is given as Landesgericht, Wien. The literal translation
is District Court, Vienna. Does this mean that the victims were sentenced to
death at that court, or the death notified by the court or murdered there.
I would appreciate information regarding this.

Charlie Roberts (London, England)

Researching AUFRICHTIG, ASCHENBERGER, WODAK, GERSTL, LOCKSCHAN,
DRAHOS-FLISSIG, FRANKEL/FRANKL, HOLZER, HUSSERL, KLEIN, KRAKAUER, KUTHAN,
KURZER, SOBOTKA, STEIN, WAS/WASS, WIEGE, WIPPERICH in Boskowitz/Boskowice,
Czechoslovakia, Vienna.

Seeking Info on Lifestyle of 18th and 19th Century Ancestors #austria-czech

Caryn Adler <idigfamily@...>
 

Dear List,

I have recently received a report >from a paid
researcher containing detailed information about my
Jewish ancestors in Bohemia in the 18th and 19th
centuries (see names and localities at the end of this
posting). While this information is both exciting and
gratifying, it generates more questions. Below are
excerpts >from the report, followed by the questions it
raises about the life that my ancestors led. I hope
that recipients of this message can help provide
additional insight into the life and livelihood of my
ancestors.

1. Early census records (1724) indicate that my
ancestors made their living by "peddling small
items--kitchen utensils, textiles like handkerchiefs
and kerchiefs . . ."

Questions: How did the peddlers acquire these items?
Did they make them? What are some examples of
"kitchen utensils"? What other items may have been
peddled?Is the life of a Jewish peddler in 1720s
Bohemia be comparable to the life of a peddler in the
US during the same time period?

2. " . . . and on collecting of waste paper and
rags."

Questions: How did the peddler collect these
items--did he go door-to-door asking for them? Would
they be found along the road as discarded items? Did
he do his peddling just to families in the Jewish
community, or did he peddle to non-Jews as well? What
was paper used for and why was it wasted? What was
the wasted paper used for once it was collected--was
it sold elsewhere? "Recycled"? The same questions
apply to "old rags"--what were they originally used
for, that is, were old rags originally pieces of
clothing that had just worn out? What were the old
rags used for once collected? Did the wives of the
peddlers use someone else's cast-offs to make their
own clothing?

3. Later (1750s), " . . . peddling with animal skins
and feathers".

Questions: How did the peddlers acquire these skins
and feathers? What types of animals provided the
skins and feathers? Were the peddlers
hunters/trappers also, or did hunters bring their
animal carcasses to the peddlers for "processing",
allowing the peddlers to keep the non-usable remnants?

4. " . . . living was mostly still based on peddling
with small items, including this time, also used
cloths and wool . . . "

Questions: Wool? Did the peddlers raise sheep? If
not, how did they come by it? Was the wool that they
peddled "raw", or carded and ready to make into cloth?


5. "In the community were also tanners (ADLER),
glasers, and butchers" . . . (1793 census)

Questions: Again, how did the tanners obtain the
hides? There appears to be a division of labor:
tanners and butchers. Would non-Jews do business with
the Jews? How were the Jews paid--money? Barter for
goods or services?

6. (1841) "ADLER family members owned partly or
completely 5 of the 16 houses in the village . . ."

Questions: Were the Jews allowed to own property? If
so, was it desirable land, or just the land that
non-Jews didn't want? Was the life of a Jewish farmer
or businessman (i.e., peddler) comparable to a non-Jew
in the same occupation? How did my ancestors come to
own a house, being very poor? Were the Jews allotted
a certain piece of property which was then divided
among all of the Jewish families in the village? Was
the life of a farmer in Bohemia in the 1840s similar
to the life of a farmer in the US during the same time
period? What would the home of a poor Jewish family
have been like in the 1840s (I know these particular
homes were constructed of timber)? Would they have
been allowed to use stone if they so-desired? How was
the home constructed, i.e., did the community all
pitch in, or was it each man for himself?

7. "In 1850 . . . Arnoltov community, there were 288
inhabitants, 127 [of them] Jewish . . ."

Did the Jews inter-mingle with non-Jews? Were Jews
persecuted in any way, or discriminated against?

8. "In 1846 . . . existence of the farm was important
for the Jewish living because of the products of the
farm (feathers, leather, wool, corn, etc.) were mostly
handled by the Jewish peddlers . . ."

Question: Was farming communal?

9. "In the 19 and 20th centuries, agriculture was not
enough to feed the village's inhabitants, so they
commuted to local factories . . . "

Question: Was this (the commute to local factories)
true of the entire community, or just the
sub-community of Jews? Was the lacking agriculture
only a problem that the Jews faced, or did it effect
the non-Jewish community as well?

Question (unrelated to above excerpts): When did the
rail system become developed in Bohemia?

Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to help answer
these questions.

I will defer to the Moderator for assistance in
determining whether replies should be posted to the
group as a whole, or to me privately.

Caryn Adler
Kalamazoo, MI USA

researching ADLER (Arnitzgrun, Pochlovice, Kynsperk)
KOHN (Kynzvart)
GLAUBER/KLAUBER (Gorshin/Kurschin)
WILLNER (Svojsin)
HELLER Pochlovice)
LEDERER (Teresov)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please note that replies should be directed off-list to
Caryn, unless they are of general interest and/or pertinent
to our geographical areas.

Austria-Czech SIG #Austria-Czech Seeking Info on Lifestyle of 18th and 19th Century Ancestors #austria-czech

Caryn Adler <idigfamily@...>
 

Dear List,

I have recently received a report >from a paid
researcher containing detailed information about my
Jewish ancestors in Bohemia in the 18th and 19th
centuries (see names and localities at the end of this
posting). While this information is both exciting and
gratifying, it generates more questions. Below are
excerpts >from the report, followed by the questions it
raises about the life that my ancestors led. I hope
that recipients of this message can help provide
additional insight into the life and livelihood of my
ancestors.

1. Early census records (1724) indicate that my
ancestors made their living by "peddling small
items--kitchen utensils, textiles like handkerchiefs
and kerchiefs . . ."

Questions: How did the peddlers acquire these items?
Did they make them? What are some examples of
"kitchen utensils"? What other items may have been
peddled?Is the life of a Jewish peddler in 1720s
Bohemia be comparable to the life of a peddler in the
US during the same time period?

2. " . . . and on collecting of waste paper and
rags."

Questions: How did the peddler collect these
items--did he go door-to-door asking for them? Would
they be found along the road as discarded items? Did
he do his peddling just to families in the Jewish
community, or did he peddle to non-Jews as well? What
was paper used for and why was it wasted? What was
the wasted paper used for once it was collected--was
it sold elsewhere? "Recycled"? The same questions
apply to "old rags"--what were they originally used
for, that is, were old rags originally pieces of
clothing that had just worn out? What were the old
rags used for once collected? Did the wives of the
peddlers use someone else's cast-offs to make their
own clothing?

3. Later (1750s), " . . . peddling with animal skins
and feathers".

Questions: How did the peddlers acquire these skins
and feathers? What types of animals provided the
skins and feathers? Were the peddlers
hunters/trappers also, or did hunters bring their
animal carcasses to the peddlers for "processing",
allowing the peddlers to keep the non-usable remnants?

4. " . . . living was mostly still based on peddling
with small items, including this time, also used
cloths and wool . . . "

Questions: Wool? Did the peddlers raise sheep? If
not, how did they come by it? Was the wool that they
peddled "raw", or carded and ready to make into cloth?


5. "In the community were also tanners (ADLER),
glasers, and butchers" . . . (1793 census)

Questions: Again, how did the tanners obtain the
hides? There appears to be a division of labor:
tanners and butchers. Would non-Jews do business with
the Jews? How were the Jews paid--money? Barter for
goods or services?

6. (1841) "ADLER family members owned partly or
completely 5 of the 16 houses in the village . . ."

Questions: Were the Jews allowed to own property? If
so, was it desirable land, or just the land that
non-Jews didn't want? Was the life of a Jewish farmer
or businessman (i.e., peddler) comparable to a non-Jew
in the same occupation? How did my ancestors come to
own a house, being very poor? Were the Jews allotted
a certain piece of property which was then divided
among all of the Jewish families in the village? Was
the life of a farmer in Bohemia in the 1840s similar
to the life of a farmer in the US during the same time
period? What would the home of a poor Jewish family
have been like in the 1840s (I know these particular
homes were constructed of timber)? Would they have
been allowed to use stone if they so-desired? How was
the home constructed, i.e., did the community all
pitch in, or was it each man for himself?

7. "In 1850 . . . Arnoltov community, there were 288
inhabitants, 127 [of them] Jewish . . ."

Did the Jews inter-mingle with non-Jews? Were Jews
persecuted in any way, or discriminated against?

8. "In 1846 . . . existence of the farm was important
for the Jewish living because of the products of the
farm (feathers, leather, wool, corn, etc.) were mostly
handled by the Jewish peddlers . . ."

Question: Was farming communal?

9. "In the 19 and 20th centuries, agriculture was not
enough to feed the village's inhabitants, so they
commuted to local factories . . . "

Question: Was this (the commute to local factories)
true of the entire community, or just the
sub-community of Jews? Was the lacking agriculture
only a problem that the Jews faced, or did it effect
the non-Jewish community as well?

Question (unrelated to above excerpts): When did the
rail system become developed in Bohemia?

Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to help answer
these questions.

I will defer to the Moderator for assistance in
determining whether replies should be posted to the
group as a whole, or to me privately.

Caryn Adler
Kalamazoo, MI USA

researching ADLER (Arnitzgrun, Pochlovice, Kynsperk)
KOHN (Kynzvart)
GLAUBER/KLAUBER (Gorshin/Kurschin)
WILLNER (Svojsin)
HELLER Pochlovice)
LEDERER (Teresov)

MODERATOR NOTE: Please note that replies should be directed off-list to
Caryn, unless they are of general interest and/or pertinent
to our geographical areas.