I am researching the large SCHWARZ family, originally >from Schrimm, Prussia,
now Srem, Poland. I have viewed the LDS films on Schrimm & Kosten. The
Schrimm film only covers up to about 1847. There wasn't much on the Kosten
film. I also searched on JGFF, FTJP, Facebook, Geni, Yad Vashem and
Ancestry.com. Some SCHWARZ names appeared on Yad Vashem, but I am missing
the generations in between to make the connection.

My gggg-grandparents were Abraham SCHWARZ and Taube, born SCHWARZ, daughter
of Leiser or Simon, depending on the record. They had 12 children. My
ggg-grandfather was Simon SCHWARZ. Abraham had a brother, Leib SCHWARZ,
married to Chaje/Haie, born SCHWARZ. I am guessing that 2 brothers married
2 sisters. Some members of the SCHWARZ family, including my gg-grandfather
Michel Meier SCHWARZ, and his uncle, Ruben SCHWARZ, moved to nearby Kosten,
now Koscian. I am aware of the SCHWARZ relatives >from Kosten.

I would now like to find more descendants, both deceased and alive, of this
SCHWARZ family. Here are some of the families these SCHWARZ relatives
married into. Nearly all were found on the Schrimm film: GOLD, WEISS,
CHORYNSKI, KADISCH, LEWY, SIMON, SIMEK, KALMUS/CALMUS, KLETSCHEWER, STOLZ,
BOEHR, IGLIK, JUDA(S), SILBERSTEIN, JAPHA, JACOBS, FISCHEL and WOLFF. The
WEISS family was >from nearby Gostyn. The FISCHEL family was >from nearby
Czempin. Other place names mentioned are Lissa (Leszno), Schmiegel
(Smiegel), Berlin & Breslau (Wroclaw).

The Schrimm SCHWARZ bakery is mentioned in the book "Memories >from our
Youth" by Rabbi Hermann SCHREIBER, beautifully translated by Werner ZIMMT.

Please contact me at elamj@...
if you think you could be descended >from the SCHWARZ family of Schrimm.

Judith Elam Kihei, Hawaii

Also researching: WEINBERG (Dirschau), WEINBERG, GOLDSTEIN, SAPHIR,
JACOBSOHN & GOLDBERG (Elbing), HAHN & JAPHA (Fraustadt), MEYER (Spandau),
HIRSCHBERG, KALLMANN & MOSSNER (Soldin), FUHRMANN (Praszka), MICHAELIS &
BRAUN (Berlin)

I am researching the large SCHWARZ family, originally >from Schrimm, Prussia,
now Srem, Poland. I have viewed the LDS films on Schrimm & Kosten. The
Schrimm film only covers up to about 1847. There wasn't much on the Kosten
film. I also searched on JGFF, FTJP, Facebook, Geni, Yad Vashem and
Ancestry.com. Some SCHWARZ names appeared on Yad Vashem, but I am missing
the generations in between to make the connection.

My gggg-grandparents were Abraham SCHWARZ and Taube, born SCHWARZ, daughter
of Leiser or Simon, depending on the record. They had 12 children. My
ggg-grandfather was Simon SCHWARZ. Abraham had a brother, Leib SCHWARZ,
married to Chaje/Haie, born SCHWARZ. I am guessing that 2 brothers married
2 sisters. Some members of the SCHWARZ family, including my gg-grandfather
Michel Meier SCHWARZ, and his uncle, Ruben SCHWARZ, moved to nearby Kosten,
now Koscian. I am aware of the SCHWARZ relatives >from Kosten.

I would now like to find more descendants, both deceased and alive, of this
SCHWARZ family. Here are some of the families these SCHWARZ relatives
married into. Nearly all were found on the Schrimm film: GOLD, WEISS,
CHORYNSKI, KADISCH, LEWY, SIMON, SIMEK, KALMUS/CALMUS, KLETSCHEWER, STOLZ,
BOEHR, IGLIK, JUDA(S), SILBERSTEIN, JAPHA, JACOBS, FISCHEL and WOLFF. The
WEISS family was >from nearby Gostyn. The FISCHEL family was >from nearby
Czempin. Other place names mentioned are Lissa (Leszno), Schmiegel
(Smiegel), Berlin & Breslau (Wroclaw).

The Schrimm SCHWARZ bakery is mentioned in the book "Memories >from our
Youth" by Rabbi Hermann SCHREIBER, beautifully translated by Werner ZIMMT.

Please contact me at elamj@...
if you think you could be descended >from the SCHWARZ family of Schrimm.

Judith Elam Kihei, Hawaii

Also researching: WEINBERG (Dirschau), WEINBERG, GOLDSTEIN, SAPHIR,
JACOBSOHN & GOLDBERG (Elbing), HAHN & JAPHA (Fraustadt), MEYER (Spandau),
HIRSCHBERG, KALLMANN & MOSSNER (Soldin), FUHRMANN (Praszka), MICHAELIS &
BRAUN (Berlin)

As Joe Fibel has already pointed out, the JRI-Poland database is
an index of documents. There is more information in the actual
documents that could possibly answer some of the questions
that Ervin asks. Ervin's questions are all good ones for folks
researching their Galician roots. However, in many cases, there
is no correct answer.

I have been coordinating the AGAD Archive project for 10 years
now and, in that capacity, have also coordinated ordering of
records >from AGAD. I have seen and analyzed thousands of
Galician records and have come to the conclusion that the
recording of information on Galician vital records is extremely
inconsistent. The manner in which events are recorded varied

from town to town and >from registrar to registrar in the same

town.

Annually, at the IAJGS Conference, I have lectured on the
subject of Galician vital records and how to optimize your
research. This is a one hour lecture and I cannot provide all
that information in this response. I intend to submit a proposal
to give this lecture at the upcoming 2011 Conference in
Washington, DC http://www.dc2011.org/ and hope it will be
approved.

Please see my responses to Ervin's questions inserted below.
Each answer starts with ***

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland

----- Original Message -----
Ervin Spinner
espinner@...

Questions about the information in the JRI Poland database:

For birth listings:
1) If only the first names of both parents are given, the family
name listed for the child is assumed to be the father's or the
mother's?
*** This is usually not the case in birth records. Most records
show no surname for the child. In the cases that Erwin finds, I
do not think you can make an intelligent assumption. You
would think that if the child was recorded as legitimate (slubne
in Polish, ehelich in German), the surname would be the father's. If illegitimate (nieslubne and unehelich), the
surname would be the mother's. Not always the case.

2) If both parents are listed with the same family name, do we
assume it is the name of the father?
*** Most likely this is true especially if the record is >from before
1877, which is when Jewish vital record registration was
officially regulated. And it would be very dangerous, without
corroborating evidence, to assume otherwise.

3) If only the mother's name is listed, do we assume that it is
her original or maiden name?
*** I think this is a good assumption, but remember the
inconsistency I pointed out earlier. You will need corroboration.
Also, do we know if the maiden name is that of the mother's
father or her mother? Another potential complication that needs
more evidence.

4) If only the first name of the child is given but the parents
have different family names, whose family name does the child
get?
*** The regulation of the Austrian crown say that the child
legally takes his/her father's name if the parents marriage was
registered in the civil registers. Many Jewish couples were
married by Rabbis that were not authorized to perform civil
marriages and therefore has no civil registration. In these cases,
the regulation requires the child to take the mother's surname.
However, in actual use outside of the Austrian legal system,
people used whatever surname they wanted to. After emigrating

from Galicia, a person who was using the mother's surname in

Galicia could easily use the father's name in his/her new
country. When you search for records, whether in Galicia or the
next country of residence, you need to check both surnames.

Marriage:
5) Do we assume that the vast majority of couples in Galicia
did not have a state or secular wedding?
*** The vast majority did not have civil marriages when first
married. However, many couples (don't know the percentage)
had civil marriages later in life so that they or their children
could more easily maneuver through the Austrian legal system
or emigrate easily.

6) Do we then conclude that each partner's family name is in
fact his or her mother's name?
*** Cannot assume anything for the reasons already stated.

Death:
7) If a death is listed for a woman, is her family name that of
her husband or her original maiden name, if no husband is
mentioned or only his first name is given?
*** I would say that in the majority of death records I have seen,
the surname is that of the husband. However, as I pointed out
before, this varies >from town to town and registrar to registrar.

8) In general, do assume that the family name for any listing
is the mother's name?
*** I do not think you can assume this.

As Joe Fibel has already pointed out, the JRI-Poland database is
an index of documents. There is more information in the actual
documents that could possibly answer some of the questions
that Ervin asks. Ervin's questions are all good ones for folks
researching their Galician roots. However, in many cases, there
is no correct answer.

I have been coordinating the AGAD Archive project for 10 years
now and, in that capacity, have also coordinated ordering of
records >from AGAD. I have seen and analyzed thousands of
Galician records and have come to the conclusion that the
recording of information on Galician vital records is extremely
inconsistent. The manner in which events are recorded varied

from town to town and >from registrar to registrar in the same

town.

Annually, at the IAJGS Conference, I have lectured on the
subject of Galician vital records and how to optimize your
research. This is a one hour lecture and I cannot provide all
that information in this response. I intend to submit a proposal
to give this lecture at the upcoming 2011 Conference in
Washington, DC http://www.dc2011.org/ and hope it will be
approved.

Please see my responses to Ervin's questions inserted below.
Each answer starts with ***

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland

----- Original Message -----
Ervin Spinner
espinner@...

Questions about the information in the JRI Poland database:

For birth listings:
1) If only the first names of both parents are given, the family
name listed for the child is assumed to be the father's or the
mother's?
*** This is usually not the case in birth records. Most records
show no surname for the child. In the cases that Erwin finds, I
do not think you can make an intelligent assumption. You
would think that if the child was recorded as legitimate (slubne
in Polish, ehelich in German), the surname would be the father's. If illegitimate (nieslubne and unehelich), the
surname would be the mother's. Not always the case.

2) If both parents are listed with the same family name, do we
assume it is the name of the father?
*** Most likely this is true especially if the record is >from before
1877, which is when Jewish vital record registration was
officially regulated. And it would be very dangerous, without
corroborating evidence, to assume otherwise.

3) If only the mother's name is listed, do we assume that it is
her original or maiden name?
*** I think this is a good assumption, but remember the
inconsistency I pointed out earlier. You will need corroboration.
Also, do we know if the maiden name is that of the mother's
father or her mother? Another potential complication that needs
more evidence.

4) If only the first name of the child is given but the parents
have different family names, whose family name does the child
get?
*** The regulation of the Austrian crown say that the child
legally takes his/her father's name if the parents marriage was
registered in the civil registers. Many Jewish couples were
married by Rabbis that were not authorized to perform civil
marriages and therefore has no civil registration. In these cases,
the regulation requires the child to take the mother's surname.
However, in actual use outside of the Austrian legal system,
people used whatever surname they wanted to. After emigrating

from Galicia, a person who was using the mother's surname in

Galicia could easily use the father's name in his/her new
country. When you search for records, whether in Galicia or the
next country of residence, you need to check both surnames.

Marriage:
5) Do we assume that the vast majority of couples in Galicia
did not have a state or secular wedding?
*** The vast majority did not have civil marriages when first
married. However, many couples (don't know the percentage)
had civil marriages later in life so that they or their children
could more easily maneuver through the Austrian legal system
or emigrate easily.

6) Do we then conclude that each partner's family name is in
fact his or her mother's name?
*** Cannot assume anything for the reasons already stated.

Death:
7) If a death is listed for a woman, is her family name that of
her husband or her original maiden name, if no husband is
mentioned or only his first name is given?
*** I would say that in the majority of death records I have seen,
the surname is that of the husband. However, as I pointed out
before, this varies >from town to town and registrar to registrar.

8) In general, do assume that the family name for any listing
is the mother's name?
*** I do not think you can assume this.

Do you know that was first published in 1935??

Colin Plen

Do you know that was first published in 1935??

Colin Plen

http://www.premiumorange.com/rigavitalrecords/birthsbauskafiftyfour.html

Christine Usdin

http://www.premiumorange.com/rigavitalrecords/birthsbauskafiftyfour.html

Christine Usdin

Hello-
I am interested in Jews that lived in Minsk and immigrated to the US
in the 1890's, nothing more current.
Is there some way that I can limit my search results to specific
dates or date ranges?

It appears that information >from the early years is pretty limited,
based upon my patient scrolling.
Is there a better way?

Thanks, Roger Burgess

Hello-
I am interested in Jews that lived in Minsk and immigrated to the US
in the 1890's, nothing more current.
Is there some way that I can limit my search results to specific
dates or date ranges?

It appears that information >from the early years is pretty limited,
based upon my patient scrolling.
Is there a better way?

Thanks, Roger Burgess

The Historical Jewish Press website of the National Library and the
Tel-Aviv University have just upload the archives of three additional
newspapers >from Eretz Israel.
Haskafa 1896-1908
Habazeleth 1893- 1911
and
Maariv 1948 -
All three newspapers are in Hebrew.
http://www.jpress.org.il/cross-section/allpub-en.asp

For those with roots in Eretz Israel - enjoy!

Rose Feldman
IGS webmistress
http://www.isragen.org.il

The Historical Jewish Press website of the National Library and the
Tel-Aviv University have just upload the archives of three additional
newspapers >from Eretz Israel.
Haskafa 1896-1908
Habazeleth 1893- 1911
and
Maariv 1948 -
All three newspapers are in Hebrew.
http://www.jpress.org.il/cross-section/allpub-en.asp

For those with roots in Eretz Israel - enjoy!

Rose Feldman
IGS webmistress
http://www.isragen.org.il

The Polish army actually fought pretty heroically against the Germans in
1939, and it's a myth that the Poles charged German tanks on horseback.
A major factor in the Poles defense was that they positioned most of
their forces far forward in the extreme Western area of Poland, much of
them in areas that were historically contested by Germany. The Poles did
this because they feared that if the Germans rapidly took these areas
without a stiff Polish defense England and France might sign a separate
pact with Germany similar to Munich, rather than go to war to assist the
Poles. Militarily the Poles would have been better advised to hold more
of their forces back further East and wage more of a defense in depth,
and their Generals knew this, but it was a Political decision, and one
that in the context of the time probably made some good sense. Some of
the Yizkor books contain testimony >from Jewish men who fought in the
Polish Army during this period. It's important to also remember the
Soviets participated in the launch of WW II, and invaded Poland on the
17th of September claiming to be protecting Ukrainian and Belorussian
minorities in Eastern Poland. The Soviets murdered numerous Polish
officers and murdered many Polish prisoners of war. Also the Polish
defense plan had called for a retreat to the Southeast part of Poland
while awaiting relief >from the Western allies who it was hoped would
attack on Germany's Western border. However once the Soviets attacked in
the East there was thought to be no chance at all that Germany could be
defeated in the West. Poland's fate was sealed, The Polish Jews were
caught between the two totalitarian homicidal expansionist powers, each
of which in their own way and to their own degree would be very bad for
them. Many of the Yizkor books >from Eastern Poland include memories

from this period. The one >from my families Shtetl makes very palpable

the anxiety, tension, and desperation of the towns Jews. I also have a
letter written in late August of 1939 to relatives in the US which very
clearly and fatefully communicates fear and anxiety regarding what was
developing. It's really frightening to read, as you realize that these
poor people were at the mercy of events over which they had no control
at all, and which they new were going to impact them very adversely.
just at that point they really couldn't imagine just how bad it would be.

Tilford Bartman

On 12/9/2010 4:47 AM, Martin Davis (com) wrote:

The destruction of the Polish Jewish and Christian communities of
western Poland, at the very commencement of the Second World War on
1 September 1939, is an established fact. However, the details of
this destruction have not been widely disseminated.

For genealogists trying to research that specific period in the
region that bore the brunt of the attack, we are mainly reliant on
Jewish and non Jewish survivors of the slave labour camps and death
camps to provide a picture of what happened to the Jewish community...

The Polish army actually fought pretty heroically against the Germans in
1939, and it's a myth that the Poles charged German tanks on horseback.
A major factor in the Poles defense was that they positioned most of
their forces far forward in the extreme Western area of Poland, much of
them in areas that were historically contested by Germany. The Poles did
this because they feared that if the Germans rapidly took these areas
without a stiff Polish defense England and France might sign a separate
pact with Germany similar to Munich, rather than go to war to assist the
Poles. Militarily the Poles would have been better advised to hold more
of their forces back further East and wage more of a defense in depth,
and their Generals knew this, but it was a Political decision, and one
that in the context of the time probably made some good sense. Some of
the Yizkor books contain testimony >from Jewish men who fought in the
Polish Army during this period. It's important to also remember the
Soviets participated in the launch of WW II, and invaded Poland on the
17th of September claiming to be protecting Ukrainian and Belorussian
minorities in Eastern Poland. The Soviets murdered numerous Polish
officers and murdered many Polish prisoners of war. Also the Polish
defense plan had called for a retreat to the Southeast part of Poland
while awaiting relief >from the Western allies who it was hoped would
attack on Germany's Western border. However once the Soviets attacked in
the East there was thought to be no chance at all that Germany could be
defeated in the West. Poland's fate was sealed, The Polish Jews were
caught between the two totalitarian homicidal expansionist powers, each
of which in their own way and to their own degree would be very bad for
them. Many of the Yizkor books >from Eastern Poland include memories

from this period. The one >from my families Shtetl makes very palpable

the anxiety, tension, and desperation of the towns Jews. I also have a
letter written in late August of 1939 to relatives in the US which very
clearly and fatefully communicates fear and anxiety regarding what was
developing. It's really frightening to read, as you realize that these
poor people were at the mercy of events over which they had no control
at all, and which they new were going to impact them very adversely.
just at that point they really couldn't imagine just how bad it would be.

Tilford Bartman

On 12/9/2010 4:47 AM, Martin Davis (com) wrote:

The destruction of the Polish Jewish and Christian communities of
western Poland, at the very commencement of the Second World War on
1 September 1939, is an established fact. However, the details of
this destruction have not been widely disseminated.

For genealogists trying to research that specific period in the
region that bore the brunt of the attack, we are mainly reliant on
Jewish and non Jewish survivors of the slave labour camps and death
camps to provide a picture of what happened to the Jewish community...

The Historical Jewish Press website of the National Library and the
Tel-Aviv University have just upload the archives of three additional
newspapers >from Eretz Israel.
Haskafa 1896-1908
Habazeleth 1893- 1911
and
Maariv 1948 -
All three newspapers are in Hebrew.
http://www.jpress.org.il/cross-section/allpub-en.asp

For those with roots in Eretz Israel - enjoy!

Rose Feldman
IGS webmistress
http://www.isragen.org.il
keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general with
http://twitter.com/isragen

The Historical Jewish Press website of the National Library and the
Tel-Aviv University have just upload the archives of three additional
newspapers >from Eretz Israel.
Haskafa 1896-1908
Habazeleth 1893- 1911
and
Maariv 1948 -
All three newspapers are in Hebrew.
http://www.jpress.org.il/cross-section/allpub-en.asp

For those with roots in Eretz Israel - enjoy!

Rose Feldman
IGS webmistress
http://www.isragen.org.il
keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general with
http://twitter.com/isragen

The Historical Jewish Press website of the National Library and the
Tel-Aviv University have just upload the archives of three additional
newspapers >from Eretz Israel.
Haskafa 1896-1908
Habazeleth 1893- 1911
and
Maariv 1948 -
All three newspapers are in Hebrew.
http://www.jpress.org.il/cross-section/allpub-en.asp

For those with roots in Eretz Israel - enjoy!

Rose Feldman
IGS webmistress
http://www.isragen.org.il
keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general with
http://twitter.com/isragen

Yesterday, I posted a message indicating that three documents had been
accepted on Viewmate. I was mistaken; at that time, only one document
(17409) was accessible on Viewmate, and I have received a translation
of that document.

Now the two remaining documents (17411 and 17412) are up. I would be
very grateful for a translation, in each document, of the column
headings, and the one line of information pertaining to SCHREIBMAN.

Thanks.

Marty Thomas
Toronto

researching:
SCHREIBMAN/SCHREIBMANN/SHRYBMAN (Zhitomir, Paris, Montreal, Buffalo)
DOMASZEWICKI/TOMASHEVITSKY (Gorodeya, Belarus)

MODERATOR' NOTE: The addresses for these documents are:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=17411
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=17412

These are in Russian.

Yesterday, I posted a message indicating that three documents had been
accepted on Viewmate. I was mistaken; at that time, only one document
(17409) was accessible on Viewmate, and I have received a translation
of that document.

Now the two remaining documents (17411 and 17412) are up. I would be
very grateful for a translation, in each document, of the column
headings, and the one line of information pertaining to SCHREIBMAN.

Thanks.

Marty Thomas
Toronto

researching:
SCHREIBMAN/SCHREIBMANN/SHRYBMAN (Zhitomir, Paris, Montreal, Buffalo)
DOMASZEWICKI/TOMASHEVITSKY (Gorodeya, Belarus)

MODERATOR' NOTE: The addresses for these documents are:
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=17411
http://www.jewishgen.org/ViewMate/viewmateview.asp?key=17412

These are in Russian.

The Historical Jewish Press website of the National Library and the
Tel-Aviv University have just upload the archives of three additional
newspapers >from Eretz Israel.
Haskafa 1896-1908
Habazeleth 1893- 1911
and
Maariv 1948 -
All three newspapers are in Hebrew.
http://www.jpress.org.il/cross-section/allpub-en.asp

For those with roots in Eretz Israel - enjoy!

Rose Feldman
IGS webmistress
http://www.isragen.org.il
keep up to date on archives, databases and genealogy in general with
http://twitter.com/isragen