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Re: How far back can one go? #general

Ilya Zeldes
 

For those who are researching Ostropol'e, a 1795 Revision List of Jews in Ostropol'e starts at Frame 641 between many other revision lists for Polish Nobility and Christians in the 
 
ДАКО 280-203-4а. 1795 рік. Ревізька казка всіх станів Волинської губернії
 
 
In the same file, at Frame 1095, there is a table listing number of Jews in every village of Volyn guberniya.
 
 
Ilya Zeldes
North Fort Myers, FL

--
Ilya Zeldes
North Fort Myers, FL


Re: Google to Restrict Unlimited Storage #announcements #photographs

Sarah L Meyer
 

No what has been shown is that nothing is FREE forever.  We enjoy and take advantage of those things.  However it is important to retain offsite backups of not just your photos but of your genealogy and other important items.  I suggest an off site back up service that would include your photos but also other items.
--
Sarah L Meyer
Georgetown TX
ANK(I)ER, BIGOS, KARMELEK, PERLSTADT, STOKFISZ, SZPIL(T)BAUM, Poland
BIRGARDOVSKY, EDELBERG, HITE (CHAIT), PERCHIK Russia (southern Ukraine) and some Latvia or Lithuania
https://www.sarahsgenies.com


Re: Offering photos Mt Judah Cemetery, Queens NY #usa

robinson@...
 

Here is the information from the website:
Samuel Zimmer, 2-4-12-LO8
Edel Thomashefsky 2-4-12-LO1
Sarah Kaplan 2-4-12-R09

I believe my great grandmother, Leah Thomashefsky, is next to her husband. They may share a headstone. If not, could you get hers too?
I'm happy to contribute to expenses. Thanks -- Sherry Robinson, robinson@...


Re: grave stone translation requested #translation

fredelfruhman
 

To be precise:

Here lies

RIVKAH, daughter of Reb Chayim.

The abbreviation in front of her father's name is read as "Reb", not as "Rabbi".  And, as indicated, Reb is an honorific.

Had he been a rabbi, there would have been one of several different abbreviations preceding his name.
--
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA


mattianlevine@...
 

I have been doing some research to come up with the area/place one of my ancestors is from but I seem to be getting conflicting places in my research. The census data for the birthplace of one of my ancestors varies tremendously. The following places are listed as birthplaces of the same ancestor on various census': Russia, Poland-Russia, Germany, Lithuania (Russia-Kovna). I know a bit of history about western Russia and that the Kovno Gubernia bordered Prussia/Germany, Poland (Suwalki), and other, various gubernias. Prussia/Germany and Suwalki (Congress Poland) are particularly of interest to me because Germany, Poland, Russia, Kovna, and Lithuania were all stated on various documents and census' pertaining to my ancestor. My ancestor's name is Moses Caplan and his only known sibling is Catherine/Kate Caplan Wolf(e). Parents unknown and immigration documents found.

Any information, thoughts, or suggestions as to what I should make of this information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Matthew Levine
New Jersey


Re: Meaning of surname “Moshchennik” #translation #names #lithuania #russia

mvayser@...
 

First to address the name in question.  The name in the subject line is spelled with "shch", which is frequently used as latinization of a Russian letter "Щ", which looks similar to letter "Ш" (SH). The Russian sound, represented by "щ", sounds like sh and ch blended together. With this spelling - Мощенник - the root of the word implies that it's a person who paves roads, but I don't know if pavers were ever known by this word.  Мощеная дорога (paved road) or мощенная булыжником дорога (cobblestone road).  All searches for this word online return the context equal to moshennik - swindler.
Fred, would you be able to post a photo of the original page with this name?

Moshennik is not an anti-Semitic word and is not used as such, Russian language has far worse words for Jews.  Its root comes from the word moshna (leather money pouch with ties).  Russian - moshna, Polish - moshnya.  Moshennik - someone who steals a moshna.  Moshonnik - maker of these type of money purses.  These words, with the exception of "moshennik", have been out of use for a long time, as no one keeps their money in leather pouches or makes these pouches for a living.
Also, "son of Moses" is not a thing either.  Orthodox Christians (Ukrainians, Russians, etc) very frequently had Biblical names, unlike Jews, who had Yiddish names.  In late 19th-early 20th century Jews frequently used Russian-sounding equivalent names, until these names became known as "Jewish" names in Soviet Union.  At the same time these names fell out of use with non-Jews:

Jews - non-Jews
-----------------------
Movsha/Moshka - Moisey (Moses)
Avrum/Avram - Abram
Ios/Iosel - Iosif
Sura/Sora - Sara
Duvid/Dovid - David
Yankel - Yakov
cursive ' ш ' can look like the cursive ' ж ' (as in the 's' of  'usual').  On that basis the word wouldn't be мошенник but rather it would refer to someone of the Mosaic faith ie Moses which i take to mean Jewish.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - are you saying that Moshennik spelled with Ж (Моженник) means someone of Jewish faith?  Not sure how that's the case, there is no such word.  Moses in Russian is Moisey (МОИСЕЙ), there is no Ж there.  The word for Jews in the census/metrical records was universally iудей/иудей (iudey), related to Iuda/Judah (as in a Jew).  In Russian language iudey refers to someone practicing Judaism, evrey - someone of Jewish ethnicity.  Ethnicity was not much of a thing in Russian empire, people were tracked by their religion and they belonged to their locality's religious society - as in "registered to Minsk Jewish society".  In Russian empire once a Jew converted to Christian Orthodox faith, they gained all benefits of society, unavailable to Jews. There are references to Jewish ethnicity in some WWI records, but mostly all references are to faith, not ethnicity.  In Soviet Union the emphasis was on ethnicity, rather than faith, as religion was nearly outlawed.  Documents (internal passports, job personnel records, classroom rosters, etc) had a entry field for ethnicity (also known as the infamous 5th entry field, used as a clear marker for discrimination).

Regards,
Mike Vayser


Migration Eastward from Germanic countries #germany #lithuania

estelle
 

As far as I can tell, my father’s maternal family lived in Lithuania from at least about the 1820s-30s, but they had a Germanic surname, Steinberg. I am wondering if there was a mass migration of Jews to the east sometime after surnames were required in Germanic countries and before the early 1800s. If that was so, would there be any way to trace the family back to Western Europe? In Dec 1882 my ggrandfather followed his two oldest children and brought the rest of the family to NYC from Reissen with a letter of introduction from Isaac Elchanan Spektor and Alexander Moses ben Zvi Lapidas.


Estelle Guttman
Reston VA
Ex NewYorker


Son of Jeno Weisz emigrated to Israel, Be'er Sheva from Hungary in 1956/7 #hungary #israel

Emma Cole
 

I am looking for a 2nd cousin on my father's paternal side, born around the early 1940s in Budapest. His father Jeno is recorded as having died in Ebensee in April 1945. Jeno's wife was Malvina Paneth. I was told recently that their son (I don't know his name unfortunately) emigrated to Be'er Sheva in 1956/7, then returned to Hungary in about 1960. I would really love to find him. Does anyone know how I might be able to trace his journey to Israel, or any evidence of his living in Israel so that I can establish his name and then maybe could find him back in Hungary. Any help would be so hugely appreciated.
Many thanks, Emma Cole


FamilySearch Jewish records are topic of Nov. 22, 2020, JGS of Illinois webinar #jgs-iajgs

Martin Fischer
 

“Using FamilySearch for Jewish Research” is the topic of a webinar by expert genealogist W. Todd Knowles for the Sunday, Nov. 22, 2020, Jewish Genealogical Society of Illinois virtual meeting. His live streaming presentation, which will begin at 2 p.m. Central Time, will be preceded at 1 p.m. CST by a genealogy question-and-answer discussion time.  

Attendees/viewers must register/RSVP in advance at https://jgsi.org/event-3971568. After you register, you will be sent a link to join the meeting. This webinar will be recorded so that JGSI’s paid members who are unable to view it live will be able to view the recording later. 

For more information, see https://jgsi.org or phone 312-666-0100. 

The Family History Library has an extensive collection of Jewish records. Understanding what is there and how best to access it is vital to having a successful search, Todd says. The Jewish records in the collection of FamilySearch can best be obtained through the Family History Library Catalog. There are multiple ways to search the Family History Library catalog to find the records, and in this presentation, we will learn how best to do that.
 
W. Todd Knowles, AG, is a member of the staff at the Family History Library, where he has been for 22 years. He currently serves as deputy chief genealogical officer at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah. After being introduced to family history at the age of 12, he soon discovered his Jewish roots. The journey to find these Polish Jews led to the creation of the Knowles Collection, six databases that as of Oct 1, 2020, contained the genealogical records of more than 1.4 million people.
 
The Jewish Genealogical Society of Illinois is a non-profit organization dedicated to helping members collect, preserve, and perpetuate the records and history of their ancestors. 

JGSI members have access to useful and informative online family history research resources, including a members’ forum, more than 60 video recordings of past speakers’ presentations, the free searchable JGSI Jewish Chicago Database, monthly JGSI E-News, quarterly Morasha JGSI newsletter, and much more. 


--
Martin Fischer
Vice President-Publicity
Jewish Genealogical Society of Illinois

JGSI website: https://jgsi.org


Looking for siblings and parents of ENGEL Adolf b 1863 Szenicz d 1938 Vienna #austria-czech

jonathanadlernz@...
 

Kia ora all,

I am looking for family of Adolf ENGEL who married Eugenie BISS b 1882 Vienna, d 1938 Vienna.  

Adolf's parents  were Markus ENGEL b abt 1830 Szenica (now Slovakia), d aft 1912 possibly Vienna, and Helen/Helena KRAUSS/KRAUSZ.

Any and all help very much appreciated.

My email is jonathanadlernz@...

Many thanks

Jonathan
MODERATOR NOTE: Please reply privately with family information


Re: Seeking genealogist for death records search in New Jersey #records

The Becker's Email
 


Re: Migration from Galicia to Vienna and Germany #austria-czech #germany #general

Judith Diamond
 

Are there immigration records to Berlin. My grandfather - Leo Lechner moved from Kolomyya about 1895.  I used Addressbooks to track him in Berlin.
Judith Diamond, London,UK
LECHNER Czernowitz, RATH  Kolomyya, HOLZER & HOROWITZ Krakow


Re: Meaning of surname “Moshchennik” #translation #names #lithuania #russia

malka_f1
 

Hi all

Having checked my pocket size 1960 edition of English/Russian, Russian/English dictionary,
мошенник means swindler.  So i agree that is the meaning of мошенник.

However, we have to look at this in the context of the timeline and documentation.  Russian was the official language to record matters such as birth marriage and death registrations.  I've seen many cyrillic records and very occasionally the cursive ' ш ' can look like the cursive ' ж ' (as in the 's' of  'usual').  On that basis the word wouldn't be мошенник but rather it would refer to someone of the Mosaic faith ie Moses which i take to mean Jewish.  

The registrations follow the same format: name of the informant in cyrillic, and in the case of 'Russian Poland' and possibly other areas within the Russian Tsarist Empire, followed by the name in brackets in Polish/latin characters, and lastly the occupation in cyrillic.  Very occasionally this reference to 'Mosaic' appears instead of the occupation.   

regards
Malka Flekier
London, UK

 


Re: Help finding out the given name of my aunt's brother in Argentina #names #latinamerica #austria-czech

Michele Lock
 

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 12:16 PM, Alberto Guido Chester wrote:
telexplorer.com
I found a site called www.dateas.com, that lists more persons in Argentina with the surname Willig.

I believe I found a second cousin in Buenos Aires on the site. He has the name of my great grandfather, as well.
 
--
Michele Lock

Lock/Lak/Lok and Kalon in Zagare/Joniskis, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman and Zeligman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Minsk gub., Belarus


Volunteer cememtery project from home #records

A. E. Jordan
 

Looking for 1 or 2 or 3 volunteers for a cemetery project.
 
In my wonderings I photographed three plots all smaller. What I am proposing is someone to take a plot and transcribe the photos into the JewishGen template.
 
The photos are all digital so I can up load big files and send you the template. You need to be comfortable with Excel spreadsheets and photo files. If you can do the Hebrew that would be great too.
 
It is all from your home and should not be more than a few hours total and you can do it as fast or slow as you want.
 
One plot is105 photos; another is 166 and the third is 165. Some photos are duplicates, etc.
 
I would do it myself but I am still doing cemetery visits while the weather is good and my free time is limited by my current work schedule. With so many people stuck at home I thought someone might enjoy a little project.
 
Allan Jordan
New York
 


Re: How far back can one go? #general

Lee Jaffe
 

I'm intrigued by the underlying issues implied by this question.  For the most part, this revolves around what one considers valid evidence.  I know a couple of people (not Jews) who have extensive family trees going back hundreds of years – one more than a 1,000 years – where the only evidence are the trees themselves.  Someone, at some point some generations back, pulled together a family tree, which has since been handed down like a precious heirloom with all of the reverence accorded divine revelation.  I do think it is significant that someone managed to record this information early enough and that narrative was preserved to the current generation, but does this constitute the sort of evidence we hope for when tracing our family trees?  Perhaps there are supporting records or DNA evidence that corroborates the families' anecdotal narrative, but in neither case has external evidence been sought:  the families own records in themselves were considered sufficient.  Perhaps this speaks to the value one gives to a family tree.

I've mentioned in another thread that last winter Ancestry started prompting me with hints that lead to my paternal 3x great-grandmother ... and then linked her to a father and mother which lead to a vast branching tree that eventually reached back to the 12th C.  The records from the purported 4x ggm to ancestors born in Portugal, Amsterdam, Fez, Constantinople and even a British Norman baron were pretty rock-solid, but they came from a variety of sources, not all of them conventional.  For instance, one of the links was an Inquisition record, prompted by an indiscrete letter from the Constantinople branch to to family in Portugal, outlining the family's history.  Academic investigations into this family's history supported the Inquisition's version, revealing other historical evidence in support.  These include 16th and 17th C. Papal records, Dutch marriage records and gravestones which seem to be better preserved and more accessible than their 19th C. Polish counterparts.   If you can get back past a certain point in your family tree, the narrative may lead very far back indeed.

That is a very big IF... in my case, the link from my almost-certain 3x great-grandmother (born c. 1800) to her purported mother was uncertain at best.  The link appears to be based on a narrative in a doubtful text whose main theme is that most of the early modern Kabbalists and many rabbis were secret Catholics.  In one account the (otherwise unknown) daughter of a leading Kabbalist married the son of a famous rabbi (a marriage for which there is no supporting evidence) and one of their daughters was my 3x great-grandmother.  It's an enticing story because, if true, I can lay claim to 15 generations of family history.  Quite a few families accept this link and include those earlier generations in their trees.  I don't know if they know the background that supports that version or, like those families I mentioned earlier, for them the tree itself is the record. 

Lee Jaffe
STEIN/STJENSAPIR/BRAUN/LUDWINOWSKA/BRODOWICZ


Re: Seeking genealogist for death records search in New Jersey #records

Michele Lock
 

I've recently ordered death certificates from the NJ state archives, and there is an archivist there who has responded to my questions about what they have available now. I can give you her name and email address in a private message, if you'd like.

It took 10 weeks to get the first certificate, and about 5 weeks to get the second one. 

If you do find the name and date of death for the person you are looking for, the archive can provide death certificates up to 1930. Their website is not entirely clear about the date cutoff. 

Their online order form is also somewhat confusing. It doesn't allow you to attach a file, like a copy of the death index showing the person's name and date of death. But there is a text box where you can describe what you have, though with a ~200 word limit.

Naturally, the online form requires you to put in the names of the deceased's mother and father. However, it will accept 'Not Known', because it thinks this is a parent named Not Known. And Not Known is accepted for both the mother's and the father's names.


Hope this helps.

--
Michele Lock

Lock/Lak/Lok and Kalon in Zagare/Joniskis, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Minsk gub., Belarus
Leybman/Leapman/Lipman in Dotnuva, Lith.


Seeking information of my twin cousins during the Holocaust #holocaust #lodz #poland #photographs

Gittel
 

My mother, Rosa Frenkel and her father, Avram Frenkel were on one of the last shipments to Aushwitz with her brother Mattes Leib.  This photo shows Mattes Leib with his wife, Rosa (Baltzer) Frenkel and their twins, Israel and Chaia, possible taken in the Lodz Ghetto.   Our family believes they may have been hidden with a Polish Gentile family in the Lodz area.

  Gayle Frankel Sokoloff


Re: Seeking genealogist for death records search in New Jersey #records

Sherri Bobish
 


Marcia,

You can also search for a death notice, or any other article, through old digitized newspapers at this free site, which does have some NJ newspapers:
www.fultonhistory.com

You can search by name or by address.  I have found items using an address search, especially helpful if the person's exact name is in question.

Regards,

Sherri Bobish


Re: How far back can one go? #general

archivepartner@...
 

For those whose families were from the Russian Empire -I have found that once you identify the place of legal registration in the Russian Empire you can make your way back through to the 1811 and 1816 Revision Lists without interruption. If a 1795 Revision List is available, it does not have surnames but it is an easy transition from the 1811/1816 or even the 1834 Revision List to the no-surname Revision Lists of 1795. You are using the earliest 19th century Revision Lists you can find, as "bridge records"  to the period before hereditary surnames were registered in 1805. Identifying a person old enough in the 19th century records, to have been well documented in 1795, lets you match them  by their given name, age, patronym, and other family members in the household to the same town's lists pre-surnames.  Those tracing family in today's Belarus and Lithuania, can continue back from the 1795 Revision which was compiled in Russian and Polish, to the 1784 Grand Duchy of Lithuania Poll tax which was created in Polish. And remember, the head of household  being listed in 1795 or 1784, was not born that year. Among the people named in Ostropol in Volhynia guberniya's 1816 and 1834 Revision Lists were people who had died since the previous Revision List. Among the living and the dead, there were a  number who had been born between 1730 and 1740. And all of those men were recorded in both Russian and Polish language records with their patronyms. Searching by whole community, makes the difference. Because  it gives you lots of data on  the way every person of that town will appear in a record in the pre-surname period. The 1795 Revision List of  the Jews Ostropol (one of the communities I study) and its surrounding villages, gives us two different groups who can be identified more or less clearly. Almost all of those living in Ostropol proper (the town itself) in 1795, can be fully identified with families still resident in the town in 1816. Around  half of those living in the surrounding villages have been identified also with folks later living in Ostropol proper. More details on the nineteenth century village residents would probably clear up some of the others. But allowing for the estimated ages of some of the fathers whose names are given only as patronyms, more than 50 of the families listed in both the Ostropol 1795  and 1834 Revision Lists, can be documented  back to ancestors born in the 1700/1710-1730s. 
Deborah Glassman, Historian of the Jewish Community of Ostropol
researching SOLOMON (from Chudnov); FRIEDMAN (from Ostropol and Lyubar); KLEINMAN (from Brailov); TUCKER   and LEVINSON (from Srednik); CHAIT (from Vilna city)