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Re: Cejka and konig #austria-czech

Jill Whitehead
 

Boundaries changed frequently in Eastern Europe over centuries with war and the onset of different empires. The Austro Hungarian empire ruled by the Habsburgs was one such empire that  included a huge part of central and eastern Europe at one time including Northern Italy, what became Yugoslavia in the 20th century, what became Czechoslovakia in the 20th century, as well as Galicia and parts of Poland  etc.

I have been researching a Jewish family that lived in my house from the1940s to the 1990s having come to the UK in 1939 and 1940. The father of the house Leopold Lipmann Dukes b 1880 and his parents and siblings were born in Hlohovec now in Slovakia but then Galgocz in Hungary, part of the Austro Hungarian empire. This is near Bratislava, now the capital of Slovakia but once the capital of Hungary (this was new information for me). He always thought of himself as Hungarian even though as a young man he went to live in Vienna, had Viennese long term residency (he lived there 1910-1939) and his children were born in Vienna. And even when he Naturalized British, he thought of himself as Hungarian, even though the British thought he was German. 

His nephew Ladislav/Ladislaus/Laci b 1908 came to UK in 1940 via a circuitous escape route including being deported from Palestine, and joining the Free Czech Army in France and then in Britain. His nationality on his papers was given as Czechoslovak, as this had come into being at the end of WW1, and Hlohovec in Slovakia was part of Czechoslovakia for much of the 20th century. However, on his British papers his nationality was given as Hungarian, and he never naturalized.  When he died in a London asylum in 1983, his (Viennese born) cousin put his nationality down as Hungarian and not Czech or Slovak. Jews of the Austro Hungarian empire were fiercely loyal to Hungary and many took part in the 1848 uprising - which started in the town Cegled (south of Budapest) where Leopold Lipmann's wife was born in 1892. 

So Austrian as a nationality on records does not necessarily mean that much, and may need to be qualified.

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Re: Need clarification about a bit of history from a family letter #general

Veronica Zundel
 

This sounds to me like someone who has somewhat wacky ideas about racial history. I would steer clear of them!
--
Veronica Zundel, London
Searching descendants of Josef Jakob Horoschowski b. 1905 Drohobych


1850 Recruit #ukraine

Rebecca Parmet
 

For researchers interested in the Nova Ushytsya District in Podolia Gubernia (Ukraine),

"1850 Revision List of Jews in Ushitshy District" has been posted on the Wiki pages (Krakovsky).   
 
It is 3 volumes.  1st volume has a lot of damage but still lots of good info.  Volumes 2 and 3 have minor damage.  
And it has women/girls listed in this revision list!  Something I was not able to find in the N.U. district 1847 and the 1875 documents/lists.

DAHmO. F. 226. Op. 79. Case 5224:  1850 rec. Revisions of tales of the Jews of the Jews in the Ushitsky district.pdf
ДАХмО_226-79-5224_том_2. 1850 рік. Ревізькі казки міщан євреїв Ушицького повіту.pdf

Here is the link:  
Link to Nova Ushytskyi District Documents

--
Rebecca Parmet
drparmet@...
Havertown, PA

LACHMAN/LAKHMAN (Berdichev/Odessa/Kiev/Zhytomir/Ukraine)

BUCHDRUCKER/BUCHDRIKER/BIKHDRIKER (Nova Ushytsya/Podolia/Ukraine)

MILGENDLER/MILHANDLER/MILLANDER (Odessa/Berdichev/Yampil/Ukraine)

HIRSHMANN/HIRSHMAN (Estonia/Lavtiva/Ukraine)

 


Re: Question about “17th century” photographs #photographs

Martyn Woolf
 

It is obvious that the photos are not genuine and may indicate that you should not trust any of the information connected with them. Provided that you do your own checking, the information may, however,  allow you to get to a trustworthy source more quickly.

 

Regards,

 

Martyn Woolf

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Cejka and konig #austria-czech

Alan Cohen
 

With reference to Erika's assertion of being "Austrian" having more cachet, my grandfather's second wife Paula claimed to be Austrian and a cook at the Emperor's court. 
I have recently found her birth and first marriage certificates which show she was born at Graetz in 1901. There is a Gratz in Austria but between 1815 and 1918 Paula's birthplace of Graetz was part of Prussia, before 1815 and from 1918 until today it has been in Poland and correctly named Grodzisk Wielkopolski,  
So Paula was never Austrian but she was definitely a great cook.
The moral is never believe family lore unless there is documentary proof.
Alan Cohen


Re: Question about “17th century” photographs #photographs

Gary Katz
 

I am familiar with the family trees to which you refer, as well as the Rappaport family, and am myself related to that family via the Kukla/Spinner families.

These photos are representative of what are ancestors might have looked like and not to be confused with their actual likeness. Photography indeed wasn’t invented until 1826. The family tree originator you are likely trying to reach would advise that any photographs before 1850 are representative and most likely not the actual likeness of that individual.

All the best,

Gary Katz


Need clarification about a bit of history from a family letter #general

katykoontz@...
 

I have a family letter dated January 1878 that includes some interesting genealogy information. But there is part of it that mentions "the Hebrew Israelites" that I don't understand and was hoping someone here could shed some light on. After telling a long and very colorful story about an ancestor named  Adam Koons who was described as a native of Holland and "a revolter in Germany" who "was one of the leaders of the rebellion against Church and State oppressions," the letter writer ends the letter with this: "Your ancestors on your father's side are of German extraction throughout and are more or less related to the Hebrew Israelites (I do not mean the Jews, for they are of Ishmaelite extraction, who were half-blooded Canaanites)." If I am related to the Hebrew Israelites, wouldn't I indeed have Jewish ancestors? Thank you in advance for your help.

Katy Koontz


Re: (Vatican) Vatican Archives Opened: Desperate Letters from Jews During WWll Revealed #announcements #holocaust

ta.genealogy@...
 

Thank you!

Is there a direct link to this collection or the latin name of the collection?

When I enter “Ebrei” I get only 2 irrelevant documents...
--
Tamar AMIT
Israel
ta.genealogy@...


Re: Cejka and konig #austria-czech

Erika Gottfried
 

Do keep in mind that it was not uncommon for people who came from Galicia to say that they were from Austria because it was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire during the nineteenth and early 20th century.  Also, I think that some thought that saying they were from Austria (technically semi-accurate) had more cachet than saying they were from Galicia. So it's possible that someone claiming to have come from Austria did not actually come from there at all. 
--
Erika Gottfried
Teaneck, New Jersey


Iazovitsa village near Lida - Where is it located? #belarus

Michele Lock
 

In the 1888 Revision list for Lida (now in Belarus), my great great grandparents Shimel and Gusa Lev (Simon and Ada Lavine) are listed as living in Iazovitsa village. I have gotten an image of the original Revision list in Russian, and have confirmed that the place name is Iazovitsa and that it is designated as a village. My great great grandfather was a maker of turpentine, which is distilled from the resin of pine trees, so I would expect that the family would be living in a small village.

On the Jewishgen Gazetteer, the closest place to Lida that has a similar name, is the location called Urochishche Yazovets (Урочище Язовец), which means the Yazovets tract; it is 15.4 miles ESE of Lida. On Google Maps, the location of the place is shown with the red marker, though the name does not appear on the map:

 


So my question is – Is this Urochishche Yazovets the likely location of the village of Iazovitsa? Is it possible that there was not ever a village there, but just some houses? I have looked on the 1915 Russian military maps for anything labeled between the towns of Krivichi and Ol’khovka, but don’t see a village listed there.

On Google Maps, there is the following photo for the coordinates on the map, and it looks like a dirt road leading into some woods, with lots of pine trees. Does anyone know if this photo is of the actual place, or is this just some stock photo?

 


Thanks in advance.

--
Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Rabinowitz in Papile, Lithuania and Riga, Latvia
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus


Re: Headstone translation needed #translation

geoffrey
 

Looks like Marusia
 
Geoff Ackerman
Melbourne
Australia


Question about “17th century” photographs #photographs

Paula J. Freedman
 

I’m wondering if you can help me understand something. 

 

In researching my Rappaport/Rapoport family on Ancestry, I’ve lately seen a number of family tree records that include portrait photographs purported to be of people who were born (and died) well before photography was invented — some as far back as the 1600s! I attempted to contact the person who I believe originated these records, but he hasn’t responded, as is his right. Still, I’m stumped as to what to make of it, and whether to trust any other part of these records. Any idea what might have been intended here? I’ve considered that the photos could be of descendants of these people, but there’s no information attached to the photos themselves. 

 

Thanks in advance for your insights. 

 

Paula

--
Paula J. Freedman
New York, NY


Re: A Polite Request #general

Marilyn Robinson
 

To All Readers/Responders,
To say the least, I was absolutely floored by the totally unexpected numbers of comments to my "Polite Request". When I was "venting" to you all, I didn't realize that I had touched a nerve that has bothered quite a few of you, as well. So, I will follow my own advice/suggestions here, & sign off with, "Thank you all for taking the time & expressing your interest in what I had to suggest."
 
Regards,
Marilyn Robinson
Florida


Re: A Polite Request #general

Selma Sheridan
 

Politeness is important, - in responses too.  Although most replies are warm and supportive, occasional responses come across as arrogant or even shaming, implying that the requester did not appreciate the work of volunteers, should know that a particular subject was previously discussed, etc.  We are a diverse group, with different levels of genealogy and history knowledge, different abilities and disabilities, different language and computer skills, etc.  Some of us are newbies.  We ask questions for help and guidance, and expect kind respectful answers, - which merit a thank-you of course.  Many thanks for this interesting thread, and thanks to the dedicated volunteers.  
--
Selma SIGAL SHERIDAN
Oswego NY USA
ssherida@...
Researching: BAUCHMANN (Potok Zloty), BEUTEL (Skalat), CYNOWER (Budapest), ERLICHMAN (Lodz), FELD (Podhajce, Tarnopol), HERSCHER (Budapest, Lens), LANGER (Tarnopol, Vienna), LEMLER (Krakow, Vienna), OJSERKIS (Podhajce), PULVER (Vienna), RAUCH (Vienna), RITTER (Budapest), SIGAL (Kozova, Vienna), SWARTZ (Vienna)


Search for BOEHM in Nagy Karoly #hungary

Didier Marchand
 

Hi, I'm seeking for the ascendants of my ggggfather, Guillaume (Wilhelm/Vilmos ?) BOEHM born in 1824 in Nagy Karoly (Hungary, today Carie in Romania ?), who emigrated to France. He married Julie BRUNSCHWICG in Paris in 1851. His parents were Abraham BOEHM and Fanny DETZ. Thanks for any help.
Didier S. Marchand.


Met My Paternal Fourth Cousin #ukraine #galicia #dna

Linda Habenstreit
 

On Saturday, August 13, I met my fourth cousin on my father’s side of the family. Sam Lerner and I presume that we are related through our great-great-great grandparents Eisig/Isak Reitzfeld and Chaje Teme (unknown surname).
 
Another researcher on MyHeritage.com created a website at http://kehilalinks.JewishGen.org/sokal/ Her website is called Sokal Jewish Family Tree. It lists all the ancestors and descendants from Sokal, Lviv, Ukraine (formerly Sokal, Galicia, Austria). Eisig/Isak Reitzfeld and his wife Chaje Teme are listed as being from Sokal as well as their four sons, Efroim Israel, Samuel, Abraham, and Chaskel.
 
If this researcher is correct, then my great-great grandfather, Samuel Reitzfeld, and Sam Lerner’s great-great grandfather, Abraham Reitzfeld, were brothers. 
 
I know with a great degree of certainty that Samuel Reitzfeld married Ettel (unknown surname). Samuel and Ettel had four children—Sara, Pia/Paje, Breine, and Feige—all of whom were born in Rawa Ruska, Galicia, Austria (now Rava Rus’ka, Lviv, Ukraine).
 
Pia/Paje Reitzfeld is my paternal great-grandmother. Pia/Paje married Meyer Hebenstreit. My paternal grandfather, Refuel Hebenstreit, was their son, along with his brothers, Eisig/Isaak and Naftula Hirsh. 
 
I found my grandfather Refuel Hebenstreit’s birth record on JRI-Poland for the town of Lubycza Krolewska. His birth record lists his godfather as Abraham Reizenfeld, a tavern keeper in Narol. 
 
Sam Lerner confirmed that his great-great grandfather, Abraham Reitzfeld, lived in Narol. 
 
Besides the paper trail, Sam Lerner's father, Mark, and I are third-fifth cousins on MyHeritage.com with shared DNA of 36.6 cM across one segment. We are fourth-sixth cousins on Ancestry.com with shared DNA of 33 cM across one segment. It seems that the paper trail and the DNA trail link up.
 
That’s how we got to the point of meeting each other this Saturday! Just thought I’d share this news with fellow Jewish-Gen researchers.

Linda Habenstreit
lindahabenstreit@...

HEBENSTREIT Belzec/Rawa Ruska, Galicia, Austria/Lviv-ska, Ukraine

REITZFELD Rawa Ruska, Galicia, Austria/Lviv-ska, Ukraine

STECKMAN Husiatyn, Galicia, Austria/Ternopil, Ukraine

BECKER ?

 
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Re: How to access a document from the PSA #poland

Mark Halpern
 

 
Hello Tammy and other Polish Researchers:

I think when you mention the Polish State Archive (PSA) web site that shows scans or the lack of scans you are referring to https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/en/strona_glowna, which is the central location of the PSA for scans/images of records and the inventory of records for each branch of the PSA. 

When there are no images, you first need to identify the Archive branch and then go to https://www.archiwa.gov.pl/o-nas/mapa-archiwow-panstwowych/, click on "Lista" and you have a list of all the PSA branches with their contact information including their email address. Each Archive should have someone who can understand English, but be prepared that the response will likely be in Polish.

I hope you are successful.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland Regional Coordinator for Bialystok and Eastern Galicia

On 2022-08-15 2:49 pm, Tammy via groups.jewishgen.org wrote:

Hello,
I did a hashtag search on the Polish State Archives website and found a document that may be of genealogical interest to me. Unfortunately it is not yet scanned. How do I contact the archives to request a copy?
I tried "ordering" a copy after registering on the site, but the only option was to view it in person.
Thank you in advance for pointing me in the appropriate direction.
Tammy Weingarten
USA


How to access a document from the PSA #poland

Tammy
 

Hello,
I did a hashtag search on the Polish State Archives website and found a document that may be of genealogical interest to me. Unfortunately it is not yet scanned. How do I contact the archives to request a copy?
I tried "ordering" a copy after registering on the site, but the only option was to view it in person.
Thank you in advance for pointing me in the appropriate direction.
Tammy Weingarten
USA


A Polite Request #general

Richard Gilbert
 

Hi All,

I was brought up with the maxim "Manners Maketh Man”.

It is something I have instilled into my sons who are 21 & 19.

I delight in many things about them but one of the things I prize highly about them, is to see them behaving like menches.

It costs nothing to be polite and doing so makes all concerned feel valued and good about themselves.

I love passing on my genealogical expertise built up over 37 years of research. I will always keep on helping those that respond politely.

As my grandmother used to say - All the best,

Richard Gilbert
Hertfordshire, England


Re: A Polite Request #general

binyaminkerman@...
 

The point Jeri brings up is an important one that has bothered me before. I am not trying to blame the moderators who do a huge service and probably don't get much thanks or recognition, but I do find that sometimes what is and isn't allowed to be posted publicly seems very arbitrary and ultimately counterproductive. 
There have been a handful of times that I have responded to requests for translations but my post was denied and was told to instead respond privately. I think that sets up the poster to be flooded with identical responses since nobody knows if their response is still needed or not like in Jeri's case. It also allows for mistakes to slip into responses and confuse the poster since the public can't see and correct previous responses. 
In my opinion private replies should be reserved for exchanging more sensitive things like contact information or things of that nature. There could also be a method for"closing" a topic, maybe something that could be checked by the poster that would automatically include a text on the thread in the forum thanking all who responded and saying that no further responses are needed, but still allowing later responses since I have seen people return to old threads with relevant input.
--
Binyamin Kerman
Baltimore MD

Researching:
KERMAN Pinsk 
SPIELER Lodz, Zloczew, Belchatow
SEGALL, 

Let me try to clarify on behalf of the moderators. Our job first and foremost is to ensure that all posts follow the JGDG Guidelines. There are only 3 of us reviewing over 10,500 posts per year as well as approving about 1,000 new members a year. 99% of the posts are approved. However, if someone posts just a “thanks” or “appreciate it”, it is felt that a reply like that just fills up members mailboxes and should either be sent back privately or deleted. If a message is “personal”, that is: “I think your great grandmother and my great grandfather were siblings”, we will ask that it be sent back privately. The adage should be: “is this message for all 20,000 members?”We understand that we will never please everyone, but as volunteers we certainly try to do the best that we can. 
Thank you for hopefully understanding 
Phil Goldfarb 
Lead Moderator 

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