Re: need help finding Morris, Sam and Jonas LISS passenger arrival records #belarus #russia

Sally Bruckheimer <sallybruc@...>

"That is why the number one rule in genealogy is spelling doesn't count."

That was my number two rule of genealogy when I taught it. Number one was, "This isn't high school, you do what you want, but some things work better than others, so we will learn some of the better ways here."

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

Re: Kagan family in Zvenigorodka, Kiev Gubernia and Philadelphia #ukraine

Susi Godfrey

My husband's Kagans were from Uman.  I understand that this surname is common in the area.  How did you find the database of voters?

Susi Godfrey

Hungarian Jewish Women in OBERNHEIDE 1944-5 #hungary #slovakia #holocaust

shaul berger

I would like to connect with survivors (and their children) of a group of 500 Hungarian/Slovak jewish women (and 300 jewish women from Lodz). My mother Manci Rachel Aranka Berger (nee Hutter) was part of this group. She arrived with her family to Auschwitz in early June 1944  from Hungary. She and her family were sent by train from Salgotarjan but originally her family lived in Slovakia, south of Rimavska Sobota) . All my family was murdered on arrival and my mother was the only one to survive. The women of this group (most of them 15-30 years old) were sent in late July from Auschwitz to Obernheide (near Bremen) as slave laborers. They did various manual labor tasks such as cleaning up rubble from Bremen streets after Allied air bombings. In early April 1945 they were moved to the Bergen Belsen concentration camp where they were liberated on April 15.

I am trying to learn more about this dark period (I have the book "women of Obernheide"). . My mother told me about that period but I hope you can help me learn more . I understand that Lily Maor z"l was the chairman of the Obernheide comittee and even organized meetings and a trip to Bremen (that my mother participated). I also know about Hedy Brasch and several others. There is also a list of 350 survivors. I would love to get the list.. Do you know how I can get a copy?

Any help will be appreciated. You are welcome to contact me directly by email.

Shaul Berger
BRUMER, RETTIG, WATTENBERG (Zolkiew, Rawa Russka),
HUTTER, KIFLIG, HERZIG, WATTENBERG (Rimavska Sobota, Jaroslaw, Przemysl, Dobromil),
BERGER & SPITZER (Szecseny, Shirkovce, Prague)
POSNER, LICHTSZAJN (Warsaw), EHRENREICH (Warsaw/Miechow), SCHELL & RIEGER (Gorlice),

Re: Russian Website Jewish Roots #russia #general


Anybody can came to the
and ask his question in Questions and answers in English and other foreign languages
It is not difficult.
The registration is simple. Type right button (near pencil sign).

Then you can change the language to British Englsh and type your nickname and password.


Since about 80% of the world Jewish population lived within the Pale in Russian Empire in the 19th century, and almost every one of you had roots in the Russian Empire, it is surprising that no one  visits Russian-language forums. This is not difficult. I also use Google translate when I can't translate to English.


Sincerely, Elena

Re: Latvia Database / Christine Usdin Clarification #latvia #records

Marion Werle

Bernard, you are absolutely correct in that the JewishGen "1897 All-Russia Census — Latvia" database does not include all of the household members. The database description makes this clear: "What is in the Database and What is Not - The database concentrates on the head of the family, his spouse and adult children, but does not record the full details of every family unit.  Occasionally there is a record of younger children, but not all siblings are consistently extracted..."
At the time the 1897 data was added to JewishGen, there were financial and time constraints that kept the database from being fully translated. This is why most entries have an archival description that enables the user to find the complete, original record, and, if necessary to have it translated. We have two projects to address this: 1) Integrating Christine's translations for Riga and Dvinsk (her only 1897 census translations) into the database; 2) Correcting the links to point to either FamilySearch or, if not yet filmed by FS, to the new Raduraksti website. In cases where links are missing altogether or incomplete, they will be added. 
We do not currently have either the financial resources or the translators to enable us to add the full household members to the many towns of Latvia outside of the two large cities. There are 46,000 Riga vital records that remain to be translated, records that Christine had not yet translated at the time of her death. Translating these is our highest priority, along with correcting the links to the census and vital records. It would be ideal if we could add the missing household members to our database, but given our resource constraints and the prioritization of other projects, I'm afraid that this will remain a project for the future. We have a limited number of volunteers, and are doing our best to transcribe data and fix broken links. If you would like to volunteer to help us, please contact Paul Cheifitz at pcheifitz@....

Marion Werle,
Co-director Latvia Research Division

Re: Citizenship #general #usa

Sherri Bobish


Maybe she petitioned in 1924, but did not complete the process at that time?

Have you seen the documentation from both 1924 and 1941?


Sherri Bobish

Re: "Holy Silence" Documents Vatican's Role in the Holocaust #announcements #holocaust

Sherri Bobish


The documentary was excellent.  I agree with you that the sound was very low.  I had to use my headphones to be able to hear it.


Sherri Bobish

Re: Leopold Israel Haar deregisteredfrom Vienna, Austria on 16/05/1938 #austria-czech

Sherri Bobish


I am not familiar with the rules for the U.K., but to come to the U.S. at that time period one needed a visa issued by the U.S.  Perhaps Leopold needed a visa for the U.K., and that paperwork would shed light on how he came to England?

Did Leopold naturalize in the U.K.?  In the U.S. naturalization papers (especially post-1906 give good entry data.)  His naturalization papers may contain some clues.


Sherri Bobish

Re: Katzenellenbogen / Ariogala #rabbinic #lithuania

Hank Lobbenberg <hank.lobben@...>

I also have the Katzenellenbogen lineage in my Lobbenberg Ancestry tree along with Grünhut, Auerbach, Luria and Horowitz families.
in there is a surname button which lists about 1000 Katzenellenbogen names. I am working my way through with a long way to go.
Hank (Henry) Lobbenberg,

Re: Sharing family tree information #general


This has been very thoroughly answered with only one exception: identity theft is not limited to living people.  I would not share much about deceased people unless I can verify a relationship because those names can be used for identity theft. 
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC

Re: Index of Baghdadi Jewish Surnames -Harasta in Syria #names

Abuwasta Abuwasta

There is a book in  Arabic about Harasta published in Damascus in 1988. A copy exists at the National Library in Jerusalem but due to COVID 19 it is closed nowadays.

It was originally a Christian village but through the generations they almost disappeared.

I'll ask on the Damascus Jewish fora on Facebook  to see whether someone knows more. In the meantime I enclose an image of the book cover.

What is your email address?

Jacob Rosen


Re: "Holy Silence" Documents Vatican's Role in the Holocaust #announcements #holocaust

Jeff at SG

We were very frustrated at first because the sound through both my laptop and the TV connection was very muted.  It was impossible to hear anything.  Only when we connected external speakers to my computer did the sound become audible.  
We watched it too. Excellent documentary. The only sound problem we encountered was a slight timing dtiscrepancy between the sound and the image. Not much, 1 second or so, perhaps because of the difference in wifi download speeds.
Highly recommend watching while it is still available. Very illuminating on multiple aspects including Pius XI of whom I knew little, Pacelli's consistent behaviour both before and after becoming Pius XII, and several other important but far less known individuals who played important roles. 

Jeff Malka
MALKA ,(Spain, Morocco)
GOLDENBERG (Romania, Rosh Pina, Egypt)
ORNSTEIN (Hungary, Philadelphia), GELFAND (Belarus, Philadelphia)
RUDO (Baltimore)

Re: Sharing family tree information #general


Emily - 

Looking at the article by Jim Tanner, I wonder about the validity of the copyright notice that puts on the information on its website.  I had always assumed that their copyright notice on the original document did not apply, especially in the case of US Census documents.  However, I had presumed, perhaps incorrectly, that their summary of the information was subject to this limitation.

- Miriam Alexander Baker

Seeking descendants of Samuel Kivivitz and Goldie Bass #belarus


I've been researching my paternal grandmother, Tema (Rose) Kivovitz Comac from Derevna, Belarus.  She was the daughter of Samuel Kivovitz and Goldie Bass who were also the parents of Irving  and Faigie.  Irving took the name Cannon in the USA.  Faigie married and lived in the state of Washington; can't recall her last name.  Just discovered there was another brother, Hilel Kivovitz (1878-1935).  I knew both Irving and Faigie but never heard a word about Hilel.  Would love to know why.  He was married to Molly Ornstein who used the name Kivo later in life. They had three children-- Seymour, Gertrude and Rose who also used the name Kivo before her marriage to Emanuel Landsburg.  Would appreciate any info about Faigie or Hilel.

Thank you
Linda Comac

Re: Citizenship #general #usa


Your GM seems to have  reapplied voluntarily, not remembering the past. What does the 1940 census say about her citizenship?

David Rosen
Boston, MA   

On 8/22/2020 3:02 AM, bobmalakoff via wrote:

The 1930 Census appears to show my mother (age 17 at the time) and her parents as naturalized citizens.  What confuses me is a Petition for Naturalization [of a Married Person, under Sec. 310(a) or (b). 322 or 312 of the Nationality Act of 1940 (S4 Stat. 1144-1145] for my grandmother from 1941. (US District Court, Newark NJ)  Upon further reading it states that she was naturalized on May 28, 1924. I don't understand why she had to petition again.
Bob Malakoff

Re: need help finding Morris, Sam and Jonas LISS passenger arrival records #belarus #russia

Diane Jacobs

That is why the number one rule in genealogy is spelling doesn't count.
I found my grandfather's manifest page
for Glazer listed as Gloetzer.

Always cast a wide net, if you want to find a lot of fishes.

Diane Jacobs

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Sherri Bobish <sherribob@...>
Date: 8/19/20 5:53 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [] need help finding Morris, Sam and Jonas LISS passenger arrival records #belarus #russia


I have found individual passenger's names spelled differently on the FamilySearch, Ancestry, and EIDB indices.

Considering how hard it is to read and interpret the handwriting on many of the manifests, it is amazing that we can find any of our ancestors!


Sherri Bobish
Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey

Re: Katzenellenbogen / Ariogala #rabbinic #lithuania

Adam Cherson

Hello Jeremy,

First I need to correct a typo in the earlier post: the second potential K'bogen haplogroup is E-M35 (not E-35).

In this situation you want to obtain yDNA from a person(s) who is reasonably certain to be a patriline descendant of R' Chackiel Yankielowicz (by patriline I mean male-to-male with no breaks). The initial screen is the Y37 test at FTDNA. This test will provide a base-level haplogroup which will show whether the person is J-M172, E-M35, or something else entirely. More in depth testing may or may not be warranted depending on what the screen shows. I would also suggest testing more than one such cousin from each available, separate line, to the extent possible, because redundancy of result is strongly persuasive in this field. PLMK if you need any further guidance on testing mechanisms, procedures, and/or logistics.

Adam Cherson

Re: U.S. Appeals Court Rules Spanish Museum May Keep Nazi Looted Art #announcements #holocaust

Adam Cherson

First, I thank Professor Lazerow for summarizing the case for those of us with not time to digest another legal document. According to the professor, the case hinges upon whether the buyer showed the "due diligence [in verifying whether the seller had good title] that a reasonable purchaser would have exercised at the time under the circumstances of this purchase." I cannot tell from the summary whether Baron Thyssen-Bornemisza showed reasonable due diligence. All I know from this discussion is that the baron bought the work from a New York Gallery owner in 1976. So what would be reasonable due diligence under these circumstances? Certainly one would want to learn the provenance of the painting (where, when and how did the New York gallery owner get the work?), The next obvious question would be whether the prior owner(s) had good title. Now, I don;t know how much the dealer knew or told the baron about the painting's history, but supposing the baron knew that the Nazi government had been a prior owner, then due diligence, in view of well known and widespread Nazi looting activities, would have involved a determination, perhaps by a lawyer, as to whether the transaction between Lilly Cassirer and the Nazi government was a valid legal contract under German law at the time of that transaction. If it was considered legal under German law for a government official or agency to receive a painting in exchange for securing three exit visas, then there would be no legal issue as to whether succeeding owners could claim a valid title to the work (this would be a question of German law). On the other hand, if the baron had no knowledge of Nazi involvement in the chain of title and could not have reasonably obtained such knowledge, then we have a different case, which would seem to me to be governed by New York law, since the transaction seems to have taken place in New York. In New York State the innocent buyer of stolen property does not become its owner. The buyer would be required to return the property to its rightful owner, and the thieves would owe the innocent buyer the purchase price in restitution. The thieves in this case, if the original transaction was void, would be the successors-in-interest of the Nazi government and possibly other subsequent owners depending on their knowledge of the original theft.

Adam Cherson

Re: Russian Website Jewish Roots #russia #general


A great idea for a webinar:  how to use the jroots forum to search for your ancestors.  I've browsed the website a few times, but it's not obvious (at least not to me!) how to use it.

Just my 2 cents!


Re: Seeking help to find the marriage and death registrations of my Grand Uncle Dr KAMMER Zsigmond, Budapest dentist. #hungary #records

Judy Petersen

One more:

marriage of Lidia SCHWARCZ (parents Salamon SCHWARCZ and Irma FELNER to Jeno Heim RUSSO in Budapest VI in 1919.  This is her first marriage.  She was divorced when she married Zsiga.


PS  Beno KAMMER's wife died in 1926 and their daughter Irma married Lajos DURLACHER in Budapest VI in 1916