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Re: Davidic Ancestry in the First Century? #general

Alberto Guido Chester
 

These mathematical issues are my cup of tea.
 
Besides Tom Klein´s comment reproduced below, I suggest the original poster to look in the Jewishgen archives for my 1994 (yes, not a typo) post titled "how many Jews have been in the history of mankind" (and replies) and further mathematical inquiries as posted by A.R. Liboff, Michael Bernet  their respective replies. 
 
A demographic timeline of Jewish history I find very interesting is available at
 
 
Hope this helps
 
Alberto Guido Chester
Buenos Aires, Argentina
 
"at the 2002 iajgs conference (in toronto as it happens), one of the presentations touched on a very similar theme, that within a given population, is it mathematically possible to prove whether 2 individuals were related?  the answer lies in reversing the question, and asking what it would take for them not to share a common ancestor:  for each generation that they are not related, there would have to be 2x as many distinct ancestors.  and fairly quickly, that number, 2^n, would exceed the total number of humans.  assuming about 25 years per generation, 1000 years would be 40 generations; 2^40 is a trillion.  that's a far bigger number than there have ever been humans on earth. (estimated at 100 billion.)
 
the flipside is that assuming that the person's line didn't die out, and assuming that there weren't any special taboos or physical barriers limiting their offspring, it would also mean that after a sufficient number of generations, everyone is descended from any given individual.
 
so either king david's line ended, and no one is, or after 1000 years everyone was his descendant.
 
but what is the purpose of your research?
 
 
....... tom klein, toronto"


Re: Genealogy Research on LIEBERMAN South African Family Member Originally from Belarus #belarus #southafrica

Howard Lewis
 

Jason - I have a copy of 1929 South African Jewish Yearbook which shows an entry for Abraham Liberman, born in UK in 1874, married Dora Buirski in 1899 in SA and had four children. He was listed as a merchant in the business directory and was involved in various communal activities, including as President of Cape Town Hebrew Congregation. 

There was a close connection between these two families. Lieberman & Buirski was a successful firm specialising in wheat and wool and co owned by Hymie Lieberman (who was the first Jewish mayor of Cape Town 1903-07) and Abraham Buirski. 

You did not mention the first name of your great great aunt but I would research marriage and immigration records in SA databases. Also look at business archives there as they may reveal unexpected information about the possible department store. Do let me know if any further queries emerge and I can consult the yearbook!


With all good wishes - Howard Lewis 


Re: Translation of birth records in Russian - family name WROCLAVSKI #translation #russia

Crivorot, Sergio
 

Thank you ryabinkym and @vshklyarnik and Joseph and anybody else that may have replied and that I have not read yet. And Judy Golan.

There is so much info I received in the last few days and more to come, it is amazing. Once the whole story is built, I will send a detailed message for those that have the patience to read. I'm not looking for living relatives at this point, just building the family tree, but who knows where this will lead...

I was not making much progress in this side of the family till I was able to establish the spelling of my grandmother's maiden name. I always heard "Weiss" or "Vaiss'. When I established that it was "Wajc", then the dominos started falling.

The juicy part is that Serla Wroclavski married Gerson Wajc and had four children, one of them Rivka Wajc. Rivka married her mother's brother, Israel Wroclavski, and became Rivka Wroclavski. I think I heard this kind of story several times in this forum.

Rivka and Israel were my grandparents from the maternal side. So my great-grandmother Serla and my grandfather Israel were siblings ! I never met Serla, who died in Treblinka with her husband Gerson in 1942, but I had the happiness of enjoying the company of my grandparents Israel and Rivka for many years. (Israel passed away at the age of 97).

Thank you all again,

Sergio Crivorot
researching
maternal side - WAJC, WROCLAWSKI, WAJNBAUM, LAUFER - Opatow, Poland
paternal side - KRIVOROT, LIPOVETZKI, YANKELEVICH - Bessarabia






  


"Mother" (But Not "Husband") On a Married Woman's Grave #general

Meron Lavie
 

Hi, 

I recently found a photo of a relative's grave, a married woman with a young child, who died in 1910.

The headstone has "BELOVED MOTHER" inscribed above the woman's name, and concludes at the bottom with "MOTHER". The woman was married and the husband was still alive and healthy when she died.

Is there any significance to the fact she is not described as "BELOVED HUSBAND" and "HUSBAND", as well? Am I reading too much into this?

I already have some other strong circumstantial evidence that this guy was not "Husband of the Year" material... 

 

TIA,

Meron LAVIE


Re: Davidic Ancestry in the First Century? #general

Eva Lawrence
 

Tom Klein writes
"either King David's line ended, and no one is, or after 1000 years everyone was his descendant"
The theory that everyone's family branches out indefinitely is  fallacious.  In any population, the number of families available to marry into was restricted by limited
possibilities of travel  and limited communications - far worse historically  than.in modern times.  Custom, too,meant that cousin marriage was usual, particularly in the upper and wealthier classes.   Limited knowledge meant that local records often aren't specific enough to provide reliable proofs,   based on calendars and place-names which differ over time and and may  even be subjective.. However,  only  an estimate of number of descendants is wanted, one could work ones way through the Bible from Samuel onwards and follow the generations as they are enumerated, extrapolating from there.. You don't say whether you are counting only the male lines or also the female lines, which aren't available, of course.Also there was quite a lot of 'marrying out' during the Exile in Babylon,  and those lines, too would be ignored thereafter.
Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK.


Re: MyHeritage Offering Free Access to All Military Records May 20-26, 2020 #events

Hank Mishkoff
 

Jan, if you're in the mood to run an experiment (and I'll certainly understand if you're not): Go to your military URL, enter last name Mishkoff as the only search term, check the Exact box (or you'll get too any results), and search. You'll get 19 hits. Scroll down to the one that says  Register of Commissioned and Warrant Officers of the United States Naval Reserve, 1 July 1967

When I click it, they ask for for money or a free trial (depending on my browser and login status). Do get something different? If so, I'll have to keep playing with it. Thanks for your help!

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 3:02 PM Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...> wrote:
I tried several people- did not sign in to my account so they would not know its me and was able to save the records that I found for the military.  Be certain that you are looking only at military records other records are not included in the free access.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Pubic Records Access Monitoring Committee

On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 12:42:59 PM PDT, Hank Mishkoff <hank@...> wrote:


I'm thinking that it might have something to do with the fact that I used to have a paid account there, so it knows who I am, and it's trying to get me to re-up. I've tried it logged in, logged out, and from browsers where no cookies are set, and the best I'm able to do is to have it ask me to sign up for a 14-day free trial, and I've been through that hassle before. [Sigh.]

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:33 PM Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...> wrote:
Hank,
I tried the site before I post like I always do and did not have the problem you are experiencing. Are you looking at records not in the featured collection-the offer for free access is only for military records ? If you are that is why you are getting the request for subscribing.
This is the link I posted for military records and the one you should be using

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access monitoring Committee


Re: What Do You Pay a Translator for a 50 Page Document in Pollsh #translation

Carole Shaw
 

Translators usually charge per 1000 words in the source text.  There are no set fees.  You could search for Polish to English translators on a site like ITI in the US and UK (different organisations but same initials) or the CIoL in UK and ask a sample what and how they charge. As an indication, 12 years ago I was charging £80 per 1000 words from Russian.

 

Carole Shaw, London UK
SCHNEIDER: Kamanets Podolsk, Ukraine & Libava/ Libau/Liepaja, Latvia
KLUGMAN, GOLDSCHMID (plus variations), BRAUER: Libava/Libau/Liepaja, Latvia & Johannesburg
ROSENTHAL, ZUSCHNEIDER/CUSZNAJDER: Lublin, Poland
GREENBERG, BRZOZA/BJOZHA, SOBERSKI: Lomza/Nowogrod, Poland
SAMSON, BLIK: Amsterdam, Zandvoort, Holland

WOLFSBERGEN, BOSMAN: Holland

ZANDGRUNDT (plus variations), SANDGROUND: Warsaw, London and beyond

JACOBOVITCH/JACKSON: Staszow, Poland & London

KOSKOVITCH/KENTON: Staszow, Poland & London

 

 


Austria, Vienna: Exit questionnaire & visa documents #austria-czech

Sniderlh
 

Hi,

In searching for the exit trails of my Heilpern Family members, from Vienna, following the Anschluss, I have encountered tall brick walls.  I have heard tell of "exit questionnaires" that were filed with the IKW, and various documents needing to be submitted in order to get visas (ie. -proof of bills all paid, how much money they had,etc.), and of course, the visas themselves.  I've looked, for years, at Family Search, My Heritage, Ancestry, GenTeam & the US Holocaust Museum (online), as well as doing Google searches --- NO luck.  Perhaps, someone out there among the many researchers, has figured out where to find these critical papers.  If so, would you please tell me what you did & where they were hiding?  Here are the people I need/want to find such information for:  Alfred, Gisela & Ernestine Lea Heilpern (brother, sister,mother). I know they all went to England first.  Berta, Kurt (Marianna Zerkowitz Heilpern), & Rosalia Helena Heilpern (sister,brother & wife,mother). I know Berta went to England first, The others went to Buenos Aires, Argentina. These are the families of two brothers: Isak & Adolph Abraham Heilpern. Many thanks, in advance, to those who might have the answers I am seeking!

Sincerely,

Leah Heilpern Snider
Silverdale/USA


Re: MyHeritage Offering Free Access to All Military Records May 20-26, 2020 #events

Jan Meisels Allen
 

I tried several people- did not sign in to my account so they would not know its me and was able to save the records that I found for the military.  Be certain that you are looking only at military records other records are not included in the free access.

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Pubic Records Access Monitoring Committee

On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 12:42:59 PM PDT, Hank Mishkoff <hank@...> wrote:


I'm thinking that it might have something to do with the fact that I used to have a paid account there, so it knows who I am, and it's trying to get me to re-up. I've tried it logged in, logged out, and from browsers where no cookies are set, and the best I'm able to do is to have it ask me to sign up for a 14-day free trial, and I've been through that hassle before. [Sigh.]


On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:33 PM Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...> wrote:
Hank,
I tried the site before I post like I always do and did not have the problem you are experiencing. Are you looking at records not in the featured collection-the offer for free access is only for military records ? If you are that is why you are getting the request for subscribing.
This is the link I posted for military records and the one you should be using

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access monitoring Committee


What Do You Pay a Translator for a 50 Page Document in Pollsh #translation

Jan Meisels Allen
 

When I was in Poland in 2001 I met a woman from my ancestral town of Stawiski. When I was in Poland for the IAJGS conference several years ago I again had the opportunity to meet her. Since then she sent me about 50 pages of handwritten in Polish notes of her recollections of what happened to the Jews in Stawiski during WWll. There are no records that survived for Stawiski so these recollections are important.

 

What do people charge for translating from Polish to Engllsh? Do you pay by page or by time?

 

Thank you for any guidance you may provide.

 

Jan Meisels Allen

Agoura Hills, CA (USA)

SEARCHING:

REICH, WALD, ZUPNIK, Presov, Mestiszko, Szivdnik; Salgo, Sebes Kellemes,

Slovakia (formerly Hungary)

MEISELS, SEGALLA/SIGALL, LIEBERMAN --Brody, Ukraine

KLAJNMAN, MICHELBERG, SYK, SZLANG, TYKULSKIER Sochaczew, Chorzele, and Zakroczym Poland

FREJER, IMJAK, WILAMOWSKY, KREPLAK,-Stawiski, Poland

SZAPIRA, SOBOTKO, PIATKOWSKA, PERLA, ASZ, WAPNIARZ -Lomza ,Poland

GUTFARB --Zambrow, Poland ASZ, Nasielsk, Poland  ELION, Suwalki Lithuania

 

 


Re: MyHeritage Offering Free Access to All Military Records May 20-26, 2020 #events

Hank Mishkoff
 

I'm thinking that it might have something to do with the fact that I used to have a paid account there, so it knows who I am, and it's trying to get me to re-up. I've tried it logged in, logged out, and from browsers where no cookies are set, and the best I'm able to do is to have it ask me to sign up for a 14-day free trial, and I've been through that hassle before. [Sigh.]

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:33 PM Jan Meisels Allen <janmallen@...> wrote:

Hank,
I tried the site before I post like I always do and did not have the problem you are experiencing. Are you looking at records not in the featured collection-the offer for free access is only for military records ? If you are that is why you are getting the request for subscribing.
This is the link I posted for military records and the one you should be using
 
Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access monitoring Committee


ViewMate translation request - English #translation

Laura Katz
 

I've posted a section of my grandfather's Declaration of Intention for US naturalization in 1910. It's on ViewMate at the following address: http://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM81992
 
I'm trying to understand his place of birth. Later documents have his birthplace as Smela, Russia. I suspect that he might have been born somewhere else, so I tried various spellings in the JewishGen Town Finder (e.g., Lonle, Loule, Lovle, Lowle, etc.) with no results. The capital letter is probably an "L" because it's very similar to other examples beginning with that letter in this document. 

Please respond via the form provided on the ViewMate image page.

Thanks very much,
Laura Katz
 


Re: Lithuanian town name in Hebrew #lithuania

Michael Alfes
 


Re: MyHeritage Offering Free Access to All Military Records May 20-26, 2020 #events

Jan Meisels Allen
 

Hank,
I tried the site before I post like I always do and did not have the problem you are experiencing. Are you looking at records not in the featured collection-the offer for free access is only for military records ? If you are that is why you are getting the request for subscribing.
This is the link I posted for military records and the one you should be using

Jan Meisels Allen
Chairperson, IAJGS Public Records Access monitoring Committee


Re: Need help to decode abbreviations & symbols on Detained Alien Passenger List #usa

Susan&David
 

If the destination address is a train ride away, I believe RR means RailRoad.

David Rosen
Boston, MA

On 5/21/2020 12:42 PM, Walter Rosett wrote:

1904 NY Detained Passenger list.

The name is given then 1dg. I presume that this means (&) one daughter which would be correct. Then Cause of Detention “to telgth”. From other records below it would seem to mean “to telegraph $ (money). The last confusing part is “Disposition” which states RR to Husb Ellias -address”. The name and address are correct although I believe that it should be son, not husband but RR is undefined. My only guess is something like “Remanded to Relative”.  Anyone with specific knowledge or a better thought?

 Please respond directly. Walter Rosett   <wrosett@...


Re: Burials in Arad County, Romania #hungary #romania

Valentin Lupu
 

Hi Diane,
The Romanian name of this place is Buteni (Buttyin in Hungarian). I have been there in 2010. The Jewish cemetery still exists in the northern part of this town. The synagogue was demolished during the communist regime (amazingly not by the Nazis and their local supporters!) in 1962. Only the Ten Commandments tablets, made from red marble and found on the synagogue frontispiece, were saved by a local and are kept in a small village museum. According to a paper published in 2017, the Jewish population achieved its peak around 1900 (210 people). In 1941, the whole Jewish population (48 people) were deported and no one returned back.
I will suggest to contact Buteni's mayor in order to find out if there are any registers  for the cemetery and for the local Jews.

Photo taken in Buteni local museum, 2010

Valentin Lupu
ISRAEL


Need a translation of word in Hebrew letters in the last will of Salomon SCHLOSS, Mömlingen #germany #translation #yiddish

Ernst-Peter Winter
 

The notarial will of Solomon Schloß, Mömlingen, is accompanied by a sheet in which he addresses himself directly to his children. The text sometimes is understandable only with knowledge of the dialect.

Right at the beginning he uses a word in Hebrew. What is it and what does it mean?

I'm sorry, but I'm not able to upload the file to VieMate - it doesn't accept my email.
Ernst-Peter Winter, Münster, Hessen

The text:
Beilage zu meinem Testament
Da mein irdisches Dasein nicht mehr lange dauert, so befehle ich weider wan ich nicht mehr bei euch bin, habt .... miteinander, das ist der
Grund von allem.
Supplement to my will
Since my earthly existence does not take much longer, I continue to command, when I'm no longer with you, have .... together, that's the reason of everything.

Reply to Ernst-Peter Winter <e.p.winter@...> by private Email or click "reply to sender"


Re: Budapest, Hungary Kohner de Szaszberek family #hungary

Lee Hover
 

There is a book, "My Father's Roses", published by Pegasus, written by Nancy Kohner regarding her paternal family.  They lived in a Czech town, Podersam or Podborany.  I cannot say whether there is any relationship but, since I had just recently read it, it remained fresh in my mind.


Re: Congregation Lechas Yosher in Brooklyn, N.Y. & Nesvizh Societies anywhere #usa #belarus

Steve Stein
 

Neilan Stern,  neilan1@...  wrote:
 I'm searching for any information, records, or photos, concerning Congregation Lechas Yosher of Brooklyn, N.Y., established in the early years of the 20th Century.  Information about Societies from Nesvizh Belarus.   
======>

There is extensive information about the Nesvizh societies on the KehilaLinks page at https://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/nesvizh/nesvizh_home.html , including

scans of their journals. A list of burial societies can be found there, as well as in the Burial Societies database on the website of the Jewish Genealogical Society, Inc. (NY) at https://jgsny.org .

Steve Stein, Highland Park, NJ   JGSNY President, and Nesvizh KehilaLinks page facilitator / webmaster



Re: Looking for Rivesaltes camp arrest record or other documentation for my grandfather Moses GOLDSTEIN #france #holocaust

Bernard Flam
 

 Hi from Paris,

Dear Melissa,
I have checked some French archives before answering you about Moses GOLDSTEIN's dramatic fate between Nice and Auschwitz and I will try to be clear for foreign researchers.
 
First of all, a common point of view from American persons is that France has forgotten its past because it was a past of "Collaboration" with nazis, especially concerning persecution and extermination of Jews.
Yes, almost 76.000 Jews have been deported to extermination, including 11.400 children under 15', rounded up mainly by French police and militia.
 
But always remember 75% of all Jews (80% French, 60% foreign Jews), ca 225.000 persons, survived in France, as my family did in Nice, Paris, Lyon and Grenoble. And this high ratio of surviving Jews among occupied European nations had been possible and achieved only with "Civil Resistance" of a large part of French population.
 
What we can find in French archives about this history?
 
At this moment, my second point is: you will be disappointed if you don't have learnt French at school!
It's a reason why our historical work appears outside to be so small, most of production (a
nd web sites) is in French, nobody is perfect...


A link to a full list of archives, "The Holocaust in France: A Resource Guide" established by Jean-Pierre Stroweis, IGRA, has been given by Elena Biegel Bases, IGRA in her post #555523 (2/08/19
) but I wish to focus on Moses Goldstein.

Concerning Shoah, main institution is Memorial de la Shoah in Paris (to be compared to USHMM)

http://www.memorialdelashoah.org/

You can find online a screen for any of these poor 76.000 deportees, always including digital copy of the page of deportation convoy including identity, job,
full last address (Nice for Moses). Families can add pictures and documents.
So I have found Moshe Goldstein as you did.
 
Each year, these lists of names are read during commemorations.
In Memorial, you have also free access to a very important research and documentation center (CDJC) : on Intranet and Library, you can learn everything which is known on Shoah.
 
Concerning individual fate of deportees after trains left France :

Search Arolsen Archives https://arolsen-archives.org/en/

and submit inquiry  https://arolsen-archives.org/en/search-explore/inquiries/submit-inquiry/ as only a little part of archives is online.

 Searching a deportee's file in France :

Archives of French state administration of deportees for official purposes (files opened after 1945), are kept by

https://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/en/node/32788

 Concerning archives left by a Jew during his life in France (before 1945) :

National Archives have a "naturalization" file for persons who obtained French citizenship before 1939 (you must have reference of decree): there are a lot of documents in this file, including list of siblings, birth certificate, job, housing, etc.

https://www.siv.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/siv/cms/content/display.action?onglet=1&uuid=Accueil1RootUuid

As France is very sensitive about privacy, these files aren't not available online and you must fill a special inquiry.
 
From our Revolution, France is divided in 97 "departments", an administrative division.
Files are kept by these "Archives departementales" and you must contact each of them to find traces of persons if you guess they could have lived in places
within theirs "borders".
 
In Nice :

https://www.departement06.fr/culture/archives-departementales-2797.html

I have checked and "Finding Aid" for "History of WWII in Alpes-Maritimes" (Nice departement) has 412 pages.

https://www.departement06.fr/expositions-et-publications/instruments-de-recherches-2898.html

Fond "0166W016" contain "Reports and individual files" of Jews for period August to November 1942.
 
With Google, I have found some very interesting papers concerning fate of Jews around Nice during WWII, in French.

 

Rivesaltes camp, there is a memorial :

http://www.memorialcamprivesaltes.eu/83-le-centre-de-ressource-du-memorial.htm

but archives seem not to be there, they are kept in "Archives departementales" of "Pyrenees Orientales"

https://www.archivesportaleurope.net/ead-display/-/ead/pl/aicode/FR-FRAD066/type/fa/id/FRAD06600AP_0000000153

 
Last but not the least: lockdown is just left in France for some days and all these services aren't fully back to work. So you and we must wait to start new searches.
 
Take care of you, abi gezunt !
 
Bernard Flam
Archives and history of Medem Center - Arbeter Ring (Bund / Workmen Circle) of France

Searching FLAM, AGID, STOLTZ around Lemberg, ZYSMAN, KRONENBERG, ROTTERSMAN around LODZ

32061 - 32080 of 675150