Date   

Polish Jewish Soldiers in Teheran and Elsewhere #general

laudergen@...
 

Dear Friends:

In view of the extended thread on non-Persian Jews in Iran, it might
interest some of you to know that there is a list of hundreds of Polish
Jewish soldiers who perished in the USSR, in Iran, Iraq, Mandate
Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Italy etc. during World War II in the
memoirs of Polish Army chaplain Rabbi Pinkas Rosengarten.

The Hebrew original was entitled Mi-Yomano shel Rav Tzevai; the Polish
version -- of which we have a copy -- is Zapiski rabina Wojska Polskiego
[Warsaw, Stow. "Pamiec Diaspory", 2001].

Rabbi Rosengarten gives names, ranks, birthdates and birthplaces, parents'
names, date of death and place of burial in the USSR, the Mideast or
Europe.

Best wishes,

Anna Przybyszewska Drozd & Yale J. Reisner
The Ronald S. Lauder Foundation Genealogy Project
at the Jewish Historical Institute of Poland (Warsaw)
<laudergen@jewish.org.pl>


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Polish Jewish Soldiers in Teheran and Elsewhere #general

laudergen@...
 

Dear Friends:

In view of the extended thread on non-Persian Jews in Iran, it might
interest some of you to know that there is a list of hundreds of Polish
Jewish soldiers who perished in the USSR, in Iran, Iraq, Mandate
Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Italy etc. during World War II in the
memoirs of Polish Army chaplain Rabbi Pinkas Rosengarten.

The Hebrew original was entitled Mi-Yomano shel Rav Tzevai; the Polish
version -- of which we have a copy -- is Zapiski rabina Wojska Polskiego
[Warsaw, Stow. "Pamiec Diaspory", 2001].

Rabbi Rosengarten gives names, ranks, birthdates and birthplaces, parents'
names, date of death and place of burial in the USSR, the Mideast or
Europe.

Best wishes,

Anna Przybyszewska Drozd & Yale J. Reisner
The Ronald S. Lauder Foundation Genealogy Project
at the Jewish Historical Institute of Poland (Warsaw)
<laudergen@jewish.org.pl>


Re: DeVine or Vine - French Revolution #general

David <dcgrist@...>
 

Celia

I can't thank you enough. I will look at the book you suggest. My Great
Grandfather was Arthur Courtney Vine Born 1881, Portsea Hampshire, his
Father Edward Vine born 1841 (waiting confirmation), I now know that it is
impossible for a person of Aristocracy to be Jewish, I did not kow this
before.

Having spoken to my mother and she can only go by what she remembers as a
child that the family was hounded out of France, quite that means precisley
I do not know as Jews so I am told were not persecuted during the
revolution, maybe they just wanted to leave an unsafe place, I don't know.
My mother also tells me there maybe another name, Jacobs or Issacs to follow
up on, of course if there is, I will pursue these leads if and when they
become appropriate.

Once again many thanks for your very informative and useful email.


Regards

Davi Grist


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: DeVine or Vine - French Revolution #general

David <dcgrist@...>
 

Celia

I can't thank you enough. I will look at the book you suggest. My Great
Grandfather was Arthur Courtney Vine Born 1881, Portsea Hampshire, his
Father Edward Vine born 1841 (waiting confirmation), I now know that it is
impossible for a person of Aristocracy to be Jewish, I did not kow this
before.

Having spoken to my mother and she can only go by what she remembers as a
child that the family was hounded out of France, quite that means precisley
I do not know as Jews so I am told were not persecuted during the
revolution, maybe they just wanted to leave an unsafe place, I don't know.
My mother also tells me there maybe another name, Jacobs or Issacs to follow
up on, of course if there is, I will pursue these leads if and when they
become appropriate.

Once again many thanks for your very informative and useful email.


Regards

Davi Grist


E.mail rejected / George Berger #general

Thia Persoff
 

This morning I received an E.mail >from George Berger with a request. My
reply was returned because of a "The following address had permanent fatal
errors < gsberger@sumpatico.com > (reason: 550 Host unknown).

I hope you read it, George.

Thia.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen E.mail rejected / George Berger #general

Thia Persoff
 

This morning I received an E.mail >from George Berger with a request. My
reply was returned because of a "The following address had permanent fatal
errors < gsberger@sumpatico.com > (reason: 550 Host unknown).

I hope you read it, George.

Thia.


Re: "illegitimate" #general

Yisrael Asper
 

I remember my grandaunt the niece of Rav Meir Arak telling me that her parents
marriage in Galitzia wasn't reported about to the government until sometime
after. As far as Jewish law the reason why unmarried people do not make
illegitimate children and also why a man doesn't is because in ancient times
consummation of a marriage and a marriage was allowed to be one thing and also
a man was allowed more than one wife. The Rabbis did not want to stigmatize the
children >from these unions as illegitimate just because in their areas things
had changed. I do have to say that at a time when paternity tests were
unavailable having only men able to have more than one spouse at a time made
sense although since it is >from the Torah it was simply followed as a religious
decree.

Yisrael Asper
Pittsburgh PA
yisraelasper@comcast.net


Re: "illegitimate" #general

Israel P
 

We tend to think that this is some kind of primitive phenomenon. In fact
my daughter who was married in Chicago nine years ago found she had the
same problem when her son was born in Amsterdam two years later. This
due to some messed up paperwork. Some day someone will find the birth
record for Moshe Pickholtz and wonder who he is.

Israel Pickholtz

It wreaks genealogical havoc, because the "illegitimate"
children were not entitled to bear their father's surname -- in spite of
which sometimes they did just that. It is often altogether impossible to
trace descent with any confidence, except by the use of patronymics.


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen re:"illegitimate" #general

Yisrael Asper
 

I remember my grandaunt the niece of Rav Meir Arak telling me that her parents
marriage in Galitzia wasn't reported about to the government until sometime
after. As far as Jewish law the reason why unmarried people do not make
illegitimate children and also why a man doesn't is because in ancient times
consummation of a marriage and a marriage was allowed to be one thing and also
a man was allowed more than one wife. The Rabbis did not want to stigmatize the
children >from these unions as illegitimate just because in their areas things
had changed. I do have to say that at a time when paternity tests were
unavailable having only men able to have more than one spouse at a time made
sense although since it is >from the Torah it was simply followed as a religious
decree.

Yisrael Asper
Pittsburgh PA
yisraelasper@comcast.net


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: re:"illegitimate" #general

Israel P
 

We tend to think that this is some kind of primitive phenomenon. In fact
my daughter who was married in Chicago nine years ago found she had the
same problem when her son was born in Amsterdam two years later. This
due to some messed up paperwork. Some day someone will find the birth
record for Moshe Pickholtz and wonder who he is.

Israel Pickholtz

It wreaks genealogical havoc, because the "illegitimate"
children were not entitled to bear their father's surname -- in spite of
which sometimes they did just that. It is often altogether impossible to
trace descent with any confidence, except by the use of patronymics.


Re: "illegitimate" on 1923 Krakow Birth certificate #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 3:32 PM +0000 9/3/06, Peregrine Maitland wrote:

It was a curious entry in my grandmother's civil birth record that in 1887
her birth was characterized as illegitimate. About a week after her birth,
she was named in the synagogue. However, in 1903, a few months before she
was to leave for the United States, her birth record was amended to include
the name of the father, legitimizing her birth in the civil record 16 years
before. This entry in her birth record, like all the other entries was in
German; in the section where the statement of legitimacy appears reference
is made to the law or legal statute of February 12, 1901---not sure what
that refers to.
Dear Peregrine,

You don't specify exactly where your grandmother was born, but
since you speak of documents in German , perhaps it was somewhere in
the Austro-Hungarian Empire? In the 19th century those authorities
refused to register Jewish marriages because the law recognized only
church marriages as actual marriages. (this was before civil
marriage became an option).

Presumably he law of February 12, 1901 would have been a new
enactment recognizing Jewish marriages retrospectively -- thereby
making it possible to register retrospectively any children thereof
as legitimate births.

Judith Romney Wegner


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: "illegitimate" on 1923 Krakow Birth certificate #general

Judith Romney Wegner
 

At 3:32 PM +0000 9/3/06, Peregrine Maitland wrote:

It was a curious entry in my grandmother's civil birth record that in 1887
her birth was characterized as illegitimate. About a week after her birth,
she was named in the synagogue. However, in 1903, a few months before she
was to leave for the United States, her birth record was amended to include
the name of the father, legitimizing her birth in the civil record 16 years
before. This entry in her birth record, like all the other entries was in
German; in the section where the statement of legitimacy appears reference
is made to the law or legal statute of February 12, 1901---not sure what
that refers to.
Dear Peregrine,

You don't specify exactly where your grandmother was born, but
since you speak of documents in German , perhaps it was somewhere in
the Austro-Hungarian Empire? In the 19th century those authorities
refused to register Jewish marriages because the law recognized only
church marriages as actual marriages. (this was before civil
marriage became an option).

Presumably he law of February 12, 1901 would have been a new
enactment recognizing Jewish marriages retrospectively -- thereby
making it possible to register retrospectively any children thereof
as legitimate births.

Judith Romney Wegner


Re: Zniesienie Archives #general

Mark Halpern
 

Zniesienie is not an Archive. Zniesienie (Ukrainian name Znesen'ye) was
a town very near Lwow/Lviv/Lvov/Lemberg where Jewish vital records for
smaller towns near Lwow were registered. The records that were
registered in Zniesienie are now included in the collections at the
Ukraine State Historical Archives in Lviv, the AGAD Archive in Warsaw,
and the Warsaw USC (civil records office).

Miriam Weiner's Roots to Routes Foundation Archive Database (see
www.rtrfoundation.org) shows that the Lviv Archive holds only 1858-59,
1862, 1867-69 births.

The Jewish Records Indexing - Poland AGAD Archive project, referenced in
Errol's posting, has access and would like to index the following
records:

Births 1857, 1872-1905
Marriages: 1872, 1877-78, 1882-84, 1886-1905
Deaths: 1877-1905

The Warsaw USC holds the Zniesienie records that are 100 years old or
less -- 1906~1939.

If you have the information to locate and identify the record you need
and JRI-Poland has not indexed the record, you should definitely contact
the appropriate Archive directly.

For Ukraine State Historical Archive in Lviv, see their website at
http://www.archives.gov.ua/Eng/Archives/

For the AGAD Archive in Warsaw, see their website at
http://www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl/eng/index.eng.html

For the address of the Warsaw USC, see
http://www.bip.warszawa.pl/informacja.asp?mn_id=279

As the Warsaw USC is regulated and protects their holdings >from public
use, researchers can only acquire an official extract of their records.
The official extract does not include all the information available on
the record. You can write the Warsaw USC with your request and the
record will be delivered to you through the nearest Polish Consulate. I
understand that the charge for this service is about $35 per extract
payable to the Consulate.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
Hi,
I need some documents >from the archives at Zniesienie (about 2 miles
out of Lviv). Although the collection of $ is being made for some time now by
JIR-Poland it seems that the project $ will take years to achieve.
I have been having difficulty contacting the person I have been dealing with
for years in this matter. Is there a reliable researcher that is being used
by members? Is there a way I can order the documents directly? I have the
book, page and line items for the ones I need.
Please respond to me directly.
Errol Schneegurt ESLVIV@AOL.COM LI NY


Re: Viewmate 8426 - German -English translation #general

dennis gries
 

Please..

No more translations. I received three this morning.

I have asked Viewmate to remove the image.

Dennis Gries
Sarasota, FL


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen Re: Zniesienie Archives #general

Mark Halpern
 

Zniesienie is not an Archive. Zniesienie (Ukrainian name Znesen'ye) was
a town very near Lwow/Lviv/Lvov/Lemberg where Jewish vital records for
smaller towns near Lwow were registered. The records that were
registered in Zniesienie are now included in the collections at the
Ukraine State Historical Archives in Lviv, the AGAD Archive in Warsaw,
and the Warsaw USC (civil records office).

Miriam Weiner's Roots to Routes Foundation Archive Database (see
www.rtrfoundation.org) shows that the Lviv Archive holds only 1858-59,
1862, 1867-69 births.

The Jewish Records Indexing - Poland AGAD Archive project, referenced in
Errol's posting, has access and would like to index the following
records:

Births 1857, 1872-1905
Marriages: 1872, 1877-78, 1882-84, 1886-1905
Deaths: 1877-1905

The Warsaw USC holds the Zniesienie records that are 100 years old or
less -- 1906~1939.

If you have the information to locate and identify the record you need
and JRI-Poland has not indexed the record, you should definitely contact
the appropriate Archive directly.

For Ukraine State Historical Archive in Lviv, see their website at
http://www.archives.gov.ua/Eng/Archives/

For the AGAD Archive in Warsaw, see their website at
http://www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl/eng/index.eng.html

For the address of the Warsaw USC, see
http://www.bip.warszawa.pl/informacja.asp?mn_id=279

As the Warsaw USC is regulated and protects their holdings >from public
use, researchers can only acquire an official extract of their records.
The official extract does not include all the information available on
the record. You can write the Warsaw USC with your request and the
record will be delivered to you through the nearest Polish Consulate. I
understand that the charge for this service is about $35 per extract
payable to the Consulate.

Mark Halpern
JRI-Poland AGAD Archive Coordinator

----- Original Message -----
Hi,
I need some documents >from the archives at Zniesienie (about 2 miles
out of Lviv). Although the collection of $ is being made for some time now by
JIR-Poland it seems that the project $ will take years to achieve.
I have been having difficulty contacting the person I have been dealing with
for years in this matter. Is there a reliable researcher that is being used
by members? Is there a way I can order the documents directly? I have the
book, page and line items for the ones I need.
Please respond to me directly.
Errol Schneegurt ESLVIV@AOL.COM LI NY


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen RE: Viewmate 8426 - German -English translation #general

dennis gries
 

Please..

No more translations. I received three this morning.

I have asked Viewmate to remove the image.

Dennis Gries
Sarasota, FL


DeVine or Vine - French Revolution #general

John L. <darien4blues@...>
 

Hello David,
I am having a similar problem. An old family letter
states my Grandfather's family, named possibly
seigneur DuVigne or LeVigne, were aristocracy who
escaped to Russia during the Revolution. They
supposedly returned to France later and dropped all
titles. My Grandfather's name was mis-spelled on his
naturalization papers and he used the name Levin when
in NYC. Later he changed it to LeVinge.
Now, thru DNA testing I find I have a Jewish
Ashkenazi-Levite heritage which doesn't fit with the
French aristocracy story... unless they had converted
to Catholicism years before. I have been unable to
trace or find any of the family in France or Russia! I
probably don't have the correct spelling of his name.
Though, his 1st and middle name were Nathan Boris.
Possibly Jewish or Russian names but not French.
Perhaps you also have an incorrectly spelled name?

Regards,
John LeVinge


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen DeVine or Vine - French Revolution #general

John L. <darien4blues@...>
 

Hello David,
I am having a similar problem. An old family letter
states my Grandfather's family, named possibly
seigneur DuVigne or LeVigne, were aristocracy who
escaped to Russia during the Revolution. They
supposedly returned to France later and dropped all
titles. My Grandfather's name was mis-spelled on his
naturalization papers and he used the name Levin when
in NYC. Later he changed it to LeVinge.
Now, thru DNA testing I find I have a Jewish
Ashkenazi-Levite heritage which doesn't fit with the
French aristocracy story... unless they had converted
to Catholicism years before. I have been unable to
trace or find any of the family in France or Russia! I
probably don't have the correct spelling of his name.
Though, his 1st and middle name were Nathan Boris.
Possibly Jewish or Russian names but not French.
Perhaps you also have an incorrectly spelled name?

Regards,
John LeVinge


DeVine or Vine - French Revolution #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

David Grist writes; <Hi, I am trying to trace my Jewish roots. I know my Great
Grandfather VINE was Jewish and his family fled to England during the French
Revolution, known then as DeVine, whether they were part of the aristocracy or
just fleeing persecution I don't know, I do know they kept a low profile and my
research is proving difficult, is there any one that might be able to help
me.>

I started >from first principles and looked up the censuses of England and Wales
and indeed there were a few foreign-born de Vine and Devine in England in 1841
but they were mostly in the North and appeared to have originated in Ireland.
There is even a British [foreign-born] Edward de la Vine - born 1821]. If he
was of French origin, perhaps his *de la Vine* [how does one capitalise this
family name?] fled to Ireland first?

David gave us so few clues about his family that it is impossible to know if
these early DEVINE, de La VINE or VINE should be on his family tree or not. We
need first names and dates to check them up in the censuses.

We know many French did flee to England and elsewhere during and after the
French Revolution. It is very, very unlikely that David's family was part of
the aristocracy as his great-grandfather [born in England in ? - David does not
give us a date or name - but I guess, probably mid-late 1800s] was Jewish.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote: One time mention: I came across this book which should shed more
light on Jews during the French Revolution:

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9846.html


JewishGen Discussion Group #JewishGen DeVine or Vine - French Revolution #general

Celia Male <celiamale@...>
 

David Grist writes; <Hi, I am trying to trace my Jewish roots. I know my Great
Grandfather VINE was Jewish and his family fled to England during the French
Revolution, known then as DeVine, whether they were part of the aristocracy or
just fleeing persecution I don't know, I do know they kept a low profile and my
research is proving difficult, is there any one that might be able to help
me.>

I started >from first principles and looked up the censuses of England and Wales
and indeed there were a few foreign-born de Vine and Devine in England in 1841
but they were mostly in the North and appeared to have originated in Ireland.
There is even a British [foreign-born] Edward de la Vine - born 1821]. If he
was of French origin, perhaps his *de la Vine* [how does one capitalise this
family name?] fled to Ireland first?

David gave us so few clues about his family that it is impossible to know if
these early DEVINE, de La VINE or VINE should be on his family tree or not. We
need first names and dates to check them up in the censuses.

We know many French did flee to England and elsewhere during and after the
French Revolution. It is very, very unlikely that David's family was part of
the aristocracy as his great-grandfather [born in England in ? - David does not
give us a date or name - but I guess, probably mid-late 1800s] was Jewish.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote: One time mention: I came across this book which should shed more
light on Jews during the French Revolution:

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9846.html