Dear Jewish Genealogists,

I am looking for any descendants of Tobias & Sadie GOLDSTEIN.
Original family surname was HOLZBERG. Tobias (also known as Tobie or
Tom, born c1871, died probably after 1948) was >from the Podolia
region of Russia, the present-day Ukraine, town of Trostinetz
(Trostyanets). Sadie was >from Poland. Tobias was the oldest
immigrant of several siblings (Abraham, Scheindel/Jennie, Chana/Anna,
Mendel/Michael). His parents' names were David and Mariam. His
parents and several siblings were killed in pogroms, ca. WWI.

Tobias was a grocer. His children were Hyman (b. c1905), Sophie (b.
c1908), Mary (b. c1912) and Harry (b. c1914). They lived in
Paterson, NJ in 1920 and then in Brooklyn by the 1930's, although
they are not in the 1930 census anywhere. I do not know the married
surnames of the girls, although at least Mary did marry. One of the
sons (Hyman, I think) was single and a dentist. I don't know about
the other.

I am related to them through Tobias' brother, Abraham.

He is listed in the WWII draft records, although with no further
leads there. I have begun to explore some leads using the NYC
marriage indices for the daughters, although I am reluctant to carry
them through until the Manhattan index is complete and/or I can get
to an LDS center.

This is kind of a longshot, but thanks if you have any leads for this
specific family.

Please reply privately.

Thank you,

Wayne Frankel
Bar Harbor, ME, USA
wnf9@...

Dear Jewish Genealogists,

I am looking for any descendants of Tobias & Sadie GOLDSTEIN.
Original family surname was HOLZBERG. Tobias (also known as Tobie or
Tom, born c1871, died probably after 1948) was >from the Podolia
region of Russia, the present-day Ukraine, town of Trostinetz
(Trostyanets). Sadie was >from Poland. Tobias was the oldest
immigrant of several siblings (Abraham, Scheindel/Jennie, Chana/Anna,
Mendel/Michael). His parents' names were David and Mariam. His
parents and several siblings were killed in pogroms, ca. WWI.

Tobias was a grocer. His children were Hyman (b. c1905), Sophie (b.
c1908), Mary (b. c1912) and Harry (b. c1914). They lived in
Paterson, NJ in 1920 and then in Brooklyn by the 1930's, although
they are not in the 1930 census anywhere. I do not know the married
surnames of the girls, although at least Mary did marry. One of the
sons (Hyman, I think) was single and a dentist. I don't know about
the other.

I am related to them through Tobias' brother, Abraham.

He is listed in the WWII draft records, although with no further
leads there. I have begun to explore some leads using the NYC
marriage indices for the daughters, although I am reluctant to carry
them through until the Manhattan index is complete and/or I can get
to an LDS center.

This is kind of a longshot, but thanks if you have any leads for this
specific family.

Please reply privately.

Thank you,

Wayne Frankel
Bar Harbor, ME, USA
wnf9@...

I am searching for descendants of persons with the
surname KIRZNER >from the towns of Lyakhovich, Nesvizh
and Kletsk. The towns were located in Minsk Gubernia.

Please respond privately.

Tina Levine
NYC
Searching PACHTER-Siemiatycze, KIRZNER-Lyakhovich,
ZOLONDEK/ROSENBERG-Wawolnica
MODERATOR NOTE: Have you checked the JewishGen Family Finder and added your own
names/towns?

I am searching for descendants of persons with the
surname KIRZNER >from the towns of Lyakhovich, Nesvizh
and Kletsk. The towns were located in Minsk Gubernia.

Please respond privately.

Tina Levine
NYC
Searching PACHTER-Siemiatycze, KIRZNER-Lyakhovich,
ZOLONDEK/ROSENBERG-Wawolnica
MODERATOR NOTE: Have you checked the JewishGen Family Finder and added your own
names/towns?

Dear Belarus SIG,
I am pleased to announce that I have just completed a detailed photo
history about the life of my late great-grandfather Hyman Victor, who
emigrated >from Rezhnoy to Chicago in 1913.
The photo essay is now on the very popular photo sharing site called
Flickr. Please join, for free, so that you can participate in the
commentary.
Here is the link:
http://flickr.com/photos/lincolnwood/sets/72057594067266534/
Best regards,
Elliott Malkin
MODERATOR NOTE: Please always sign with your location!

Dear Belarus SIG,
I am pleased to announce that I have just completed a detailed photo
history about the life of my late great-grandfather Hyman Victor, who
emigrated >from Rezhnoy to Chicago in 1913.
The photo essay is now on the very popular photo sharing site called
Flickr. Please join, for free, so that you can participate in the
commentary.
Here is the link:
http://flickr.com/photos/lincolnwood/sets/72057594067266534/
Best regards,
Elliott Malkin
MODERATOR NOTE: Please always sign with your location!

Dear all,

Many thanks for your emails telling me all about Dvinsk and even providing
me with websites, pictures, histories, family experiences. Wow, you are all
brilliant! I now am very familiar with Dvinsk!

Thank you,

B.Shiel (London) blspabas@...

SHIEL, SHIELL, SHUEL, SCHUEL

Dear all,

Many thanks for your emails telling me all about Dvinsk and even providing
me with websites, pictures, histories, family experiences. Wow, you are all
brilliant! I now am very familiar with Dvinsk!

Thank you,

B.Shiel (London) blspabas@...

SHIEL, SHIELL, SHUEL, SCHUEL

What is the problem? On his marriage record Itzik guessed that he was 24,
but he was probably 3 years younger. People mostly did not know their ages
at that time (1876), and 21 or 24 are about the same.

In 1858, 3 years old is probably closer to 'the truth'. A 4 year old or a 2
year old would be quite different, usually. And the 3 year old has a 6 year
old sister - why would that bother you?

Unless you find several other Turgel families in the same area, this is
probably yours.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

"There is an obvious discrepancy in age, but the other three young men in
the family also have corrections next to their age records (could this
be a ploy to push off army service). What concerns me is that the father
Shloyma has another child who was 6 in 1858 ( a girl)."

What is the problem? On his marriage record Itzik guessed that he was 24,
but he was probably 3 years younger. People mostly did not know their ages
at that time (1876), and 21 or 24 are about the same.

In 1858, 3 years old is probably closer to 'the truth'. A 4 year old or a 2
year old would be quite different, usually. And the 3 year old has a 6 year
old sister - why would that bother you?

Unless you find several other Turgel families in the same area, this is
probably yours.

Sally Bruckheimer
Princeton, NJ

"There is an obvious discrepancy in age, but the other three young men in
the family also have corrections next to their age records (could this
be a ploy to push off army service). What concerns me is that the father
Shloyma has another child who was 6 in 1858 ( a girl)."

If you have used a researcher for research in Warsaw, please contact me
privately.
Thanks. Marilyn Feingold USA

If you have used a researcher for research in Warsaw, please contact me
privately.
Thanks. Marilyn Feingold USA

I think I may have solved part of the family mystery and it may all may boil
down to a loan for ginger beer! It is indeed a fascinating tale. This was are
period where there was a big vogue to produce non-alcoholic drinks and healthy
foods [cocoa, oats etc] for workers who were deemed to drink too much alcohol.

As there is such a large FENTIMAN family and many descendants, it is important
to contact as many as possible to piece together the story. Anni Fentiman has
confirmed to me all the findings in my last posting. I was delighted to read
that Jane, as I suspected, had indeed married CHADWICK [could he not have been
the real father or illegitimate Edward and John Thomas?] and had more children.
Our questioner Anni is descended >from John Thomas who changed his name to
Thomas. I followed his trail. He married Louisa and was a poor iron moulder
[also no sign of Judaism here!] and had a large family. In 1891 he was still an
ironmoulder, but in 1901 a dramatic change takes place and he suddenly becomes
a brewer of botanical syrups - his son James is an assistant.

I suddenly remembered a botanical brand called FENTIMAN and did a bit of
googling and came across this:

http://focusonfood.waitrose.com/food_drink/wfi/drinks/softdrinks/9908100.asp

If you read this article you will see how this came about. You will also see
the name of his great-grandson {Eldon ROBSON}: < Fentimans' heritage... is not
merely a marketing illusion. The company has its roots in a deal that took
place in 1900 between Thomas FENTIMAN - Eldon's great-grandfather - and a
fellow tradesman, at Cleckheaton, in Yorkshire. As security for a loan, the
tradesman offered FENTIMAN a recipe for botanically brewed ginger beer. The
loan was never repaid, and the company was founded.>

All this made me wonder if the Jewish connnection was not at this stage of the
family history - the recipes for botanicals [bought >from a Jewish peddler
perhaps?; the loan [>from a Jewish pawnbroker perhaps?]; the family in Newcastle
[Jewish roots perhaps?] etc.

We will never find the father of [illegitimate] Edward and John Thomas FENTIMAN
in Bury, Lancs in the 1840s, but I do suspect that the Jewish element here is
legend [ironically like the legends told to Jewish children in Vienna and
elsewhere that they were descended >from a {Christian} princess or Lord of the
Manor].

If you look at the footnote, you will see where our questioner Anni fits in. I
think there may have been a rift in the family here and Thomas [Anni's
grandfather] did either did not keep in touch with his siblings or he passed on
a very garbled version of the family history in this form: <the family also
came into some money in the 1880s, and all the siblings set up in business so
it must have been a sizeable amount bearing in mind the family were very
"working class" metal workers at the time, perhaps money was left to them?
Again family lore says they won the money in lieu of a gambling debt but that
would have to be a big win for a poor family and could be an excuse!>

Suddenly the family was relatively rich; we can see that in the census. I found
the change between 1891 and 1901, not the 1880s. Of course, here, with the
preconceptions prevalent at the time re Jews and money, it is possible to
insert a Jewish element. I know who I would contact to try and find out more
and develop the family tree. The business is still running.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote: FENTIMAN family in Bury, Lancs in 1891 - Thomas was an iron moulder.
Thomas 45; Louisa 42; Maria 21; John 18; Harriet 17; Thomas 13; Jane 11
James 9. Thomas aged 13 is the grandfather of Anni our questioner.

However, in the 1901 census, Thomas Snr, James and Thomas Jnr were all
botanical brewers! And John is living with his sister and brother-in-law
Abraham and Harriet PICUP [sic] in Yorkshire - they are all botanical brewers.
The PICUP and PICKUP had been cotton weavers >from Lancashire. Little Louisa
PICKUP agd 4 is staying with her grandparents.

I am searching for descendants of persons with the surname KIRZNER >from the
towns of Lyakhovich, Nesvizh and Kletsk. The towns were located in Minsk
Gubernia.

Please respond privately.

Tina Levine
NYC
TSL553@...
Searching PACHTER-Siemiatycze, KIRZNER-Lyakhovich,
ZOLONDEK/ROSENBERG-Wawolnica

I am searching for descendants of persons with the surname KIRZNER >from the
towns of Lyakhovich, Nesvizh and Kletsk. The towns were located in Minsk
Gubernia.

Please respond privately.

Tina Levine
NYC
TSL553@...
Searching PACHTER-Siemiatycze, KIRZNER-Lyakhovich,
ZOLONDEK/ROSENBERG-Wawolnica

I think I may have solved part of the family mystery and it may all may boil
down to a loan for ginger beer! It is indeed a fascinating tale. This was are
period where there was a big vogue to produce non-alcoholic drinks and healthy
foods [cocoa, oats etc] for workers who were deemed to drink too much alcohol.

As there is such a large FENTIMAN family and many descendants, it is important
to contact as many as possible to piece together the story. Anni Fentiman has
confirmed to me all the findings in my last posting. I was delighted to read
that Jane, as I suspected, had indeed married CHADWICK [could he not have been
the real father or illegitimate Edward and John Thomas?] and had more children.
Our questioner Anni is descended >from John Thomas who changed his name to
Thomas. I followed his trail. He married Louisa and was a poor iron moulder
[also no sign of Judaism here!] and had a large family. In 1891 he was still an
ironmoulder, but in 1901 a dramatic change takes place and he suddenly becomes
a brewer of botanical syrups - his son James is an assistant.

I suddenly remembered a botanical brand called FENTIMAN and did a bit of
googling and came across this:

http://focusonfood.waitrose.com/food_drink/wfi/drinks/softdrinks/9908100.asp

If you read this article you will see how this came about. You will also see
the name of his great-grandson {Eldon ROBSON}: < Fentimans' heritage... is not
merely a marketing illusion. The company has its roots in a deal that took
place in 1900 between Thomas FENTIMAN - Eldon's great-grandfather - and a
fellow tradesman, at Cleckheaton, in Yorkshire. As security for a loan, the
tradesman offered FENTIMAN a recipe for botanically brewed ginger beer. The
loan was never repaid, and the company was founded.>

All this made me wonder if the Jewish connnection was not at this stage of the
family history - the recipes for botanicals [bought >from a Jewish peddler
perhaps?; the loan [>from a Jewish pawnbroker perhaps?]; the family in Newcastle
[Jewish roots perhaps?] etc.

We will never find the father of [illegitimate] Edward and John Thomas FENTIMAN
in Bury, Lancs in the 1840s, but I do suspect that the Jewish element here is
legend [ironically like the legends told to Jewish children in Vienna and
elsewhere that they were descended >from a {Christian} princess or Lord of the
Manor].

If you look at the footnote, you will see where our questioner Anni fits in. I
think there may have been a rift in the family here and Thomas [Anni's
grandfather] did either did not keep in touch with his siblings or he passed on
a very garbled version of the family history in this form: <the family also
came into some money in the 1880s, and all the siblings set up in business so
it must have been a sizeable amount bearing in mind the family were very
"working class" metal workers at the time, perhaps money was left to them?
Again family lore says they won the money in lieu of a gambling debt but that
would have to be a big win for a poor family and could be an excuse!>

Suddenly the family was relatively rich; we can see that in the census. I found
the change between 1891 and 1901, not the 1880s. Of course, here, with the
preconceptions prevalent at the time re Jews and money, it is possible to
insert a Jewish element. I know who I would contact to try and find out more
and develop the family tree. The business is still running.

Celia Male [U.K.]

Footnote: FENTIMAN family in Bury, Lancs in 1891 - Thomas was an iron moulder.
Thomas 45; Louisa 42; Maria 21; John 18; Harriet 17; Thomas 13; Jane 11
James 9. Thomas aged 13 is the grandfather of Anni our questioner.

However, in the 1901 census, Thomas Snr, James and Thomas Jnr were all
botanical brewers! And John is living with his sister and brother-in-law
Abraham and Harriet PICUP [sic] in Yorkshire - they are all botanical brewers.
The PICUP and PICKUP had been cotton weavers >from Lancashire. Little Louisa
PICKUP agd 4 is staying with her grandparents.

Several volumes of the Year Book of the Central Conference of
American Rabbis >from the late 19th and early 20th centuries can be
viewed online through http://books.google.com. To find them, do a
"full view books" search for "central conference of american rabbis"
on that website. Some users outside the U.S. might not be able to
view the books, due to Google's restrictions based on local
copyright laws (if you are blocked, please do not ask me to send you
copies of the books). Included in some of the volumes are
membership lists, with congregations and postal addresses, and lists
of deceased members, with years of death.

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.

Several volumes of the Year Book of the Central Conference of
American Rabbis >from the late 19th and early 20th centuries can be
viewed online through http://books.google.com. To find them, do a
"full view books" search for "central conference of american rabbis"
on that website. Some users outside the U.S. might not be able to
view the books, due to Google's restrictions based on local
copyright laws (if you are blocked, please do not ask me to send you
copies of the books). Included in some of the volumes are
membership lists, with congregations and postal addresses, and lists
of deceased members, with years of death.

Best regards,

Logan Kleinwaks
kleinwaks@...
near Washington, D.C.

Dear Ukraine SIG,
This link was recently placed on the Jewish Gen Digest:
http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/
It is a fabulous web site called Beyond the Pale: A History of Russian
Jewry, based on a museum exhibit. There are many photographs, drawings and
articles about Russian Jewry, that will be of great interest to those
seeking historical background for their genealogy stories.

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer, Ph. D.
Palm Beach, Florida

Dear Ukraine SIG,
This link was recently placed on the Jewish Gen Digest:
http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/
It is a fabulous web site called Beyond the Pale: A History of Russian
Jewry, based on a museum exhibit. There are many photographs, drawings and
articles about Russian Jewry, that will be of great interest to those
seeking historical background for their genealogy stories.

Haviva Dolgin Langenauer, Ph. D.
Palm Beach, Florida