I have just begun searching for my grandfather's family. I have learned
they were >from Telechan, then in Lithuania, which is now in Belarus. My
grandfather, his sister and their parents left in 1920. I have located them on a
boat coming into Ellis Island. The problem is the last name. In America, they
were known as Grebetz. On the boat, they were known as Grybetz. I can find
NO families anywhere with that surname, so I am surmising that it was
somewhat different in Europe. I just can't even guess what it may be. Has anyone
out there had a similar experience?

Thank you in advance,
Kathy Sefton (Kagan) Chicago, IL
searching: Kagan, Kaganas, -- Panevezys, Lithuania
Erlich -- Poland, then Penza and Samara, Russia
Augenlicht -- Chelm, Poland
Grebetz -- Telechan, Lithuania (now Belarus)

I have just begun searching for my grandfather's family. I have learned
they were >from Telechan, then in Lithuania, which is now in Belarus. My
grandfather, his sister and their parents left in 1920. I have located them on a
boat coming into Ellis Island. The problem is the last name. In America, they
were known as Grebetz. On the boat, they were known as Grybetz. I can find
NO families anywhere with that surname, so I am surmising that it was
somewhat different in Europe. I just can't even guess what it may be. Has anyone
out there had a similar experience?

Thank you in advance,
Kathy Sefton (Kagan) Chicago, IL
searching: Kagan, Kaganas, -- Panevezys, Lithuania
Erlich -- Poland, then Penza and Samara, Russia
Augenlicht -- Chelm, Poland
Grebetz -- Telechan, Lithuania (now Belarus)

At 08:20 PM 29/10/2006, Ann wrote:

The Peter Coldham books are invaluable in tracing early families. However,
you cannot categorically state that all persons transported were hardened
"criminals".

Thanks for the Coldham recommendation. I have just ordered a copy of the CD
version.

About being hardened criminals or not, judging by the Australian
convicts they were a mixture of real criminals and destitute impulse
opportunists. Their crime and lifestyle in England is no prediction
to their behavior after transport. Some re-convicted, got whipped,
were put in chains, then when finally released became responsible
central members of the Jewish community or wealthy merchants and
shipping owners, with children who became parliamentarians. Others
who may have only stole a morsel to feed their children, were
released on early parole, married, had children, settled as a farmer
on a land grant, committed another crime and spent the rest of their
years as a convict.

My own ancestor was an experienced thief, a Yiddish speaker >from
Warsaw, with 30 skeleton keys which could open about 100 doors in his
district in London (similar to having 30 forged credit cards today).
He only stole >from local poor people. After transportation he
misbehaved, was put in chains working in a rock quarry, and barely
escaped >from being hanged for sodomy. After release he fathered a
family of 11 children who did good work in the general and the Jewish
community. Without the convict records I would never have discovered
the names of his mother and three brothers who remained in Warsaw.

It was like a game of snakes-and-ladders where it seems to depend on
how an individual responded year by year to the changing environment
under different governors and regulations. There is no discernable
difference in this between Jews and non-Jews.

"A Biographical Dictionary of Early American Jews, Colonial Times through
1800." Joseph R. Rosenbloom, University of Kentucky Press, 1960," which
provides interesting information on pre-1800 Jews.

I'l try to find this in an Australian library. Its title looks like
the specific study I was hoping to find.


Thank you
Gary Luke
gary@...
Sydney, Australia

At 08:20 PM 29/10/2006, Ann wrote:

The Peter Coldham books are invaluable in tracing early families. However,
you cannot categorically state that all persons transported were hardened
"criminals".

Thanks for the Coldham recommendation. I have just ordered a copy of the CD
version.

About being hardened criminals or not, judging by the Australian
convicts they were a mixture of real criminals and destitute impulse
opportunists. Their crime and lifestyle in England is no prediction
to their behavior after transport. Some re-convicted, got whipped,
were put in chains, then when finally released became responsible
central members of the Jewish community or wealthy merchants and
shipping owners, with children who became parliamentarians. Others
who may have only stole a morsel to feed their children, were
released on early parole, married, had children, settled as a farmer
on a land grant, committed another crime and spent the rest of their
years as a convict.

My own ancestor was an experienced thief, a Yiddish speaker >from
Warsaw, with 30 skeleton keys which could open about 100 doors in his
district in London (similar to having 30 forged credit cards today).
He only stole >from local poor people. After transportation he
misbehaved, was put in chains working in a rock quarry, and barely
escaped >from being hanged for sodomy. After release he fathered a
family of 11 children who did good work in the general and the Jewish
community. Without the convict records I would never have discovered
the names of his mother and three brothers who remained in Warsaw.

It was like a game of snakes-and-ladders where it seems to depend on
how an individual responded year by year to the changing environment
under different governors and regulations. There is no discernable
difference in this between Jews and non-Jews.

"A Biographical Dictionary of Early American Jews, Colonial Times through
1800." Joseph R. Rosenbloom, University of Kentucky Press, 1960," which
provides interesting information on pre-1800 Jews.

I'l try to find this in an Australian library. Its title looks like
the specific study I was hoping to find.


Thank you
Gary Luke
gary@...
Sydney, Australia

I am looking for descendants or relatives of the ROBINSON family who emigrated
to the US >from London in 1910.

Meyer Robinson (b c 1876 England) son of Victor Robinson) and his wife Millie
(also know as Minnie) nee BLOOM
Children Victoria (b 1904 London); Alexander (b 1906 London) and Victor (b 1909
London).

Meyer emigrated in 1909; his passage was paid by his brother P Robinson of
406B 9th Street New York. Millie and children followed in 1910.
In 1920 and 1930 they were all living in Hoboken, New Jersey. Meyer was a
clothing merchant; Alexander an insurance agent and Victor a bookkeeper. Millie
Bloom is my great great aunt and I am keen to trace any descendants in case
they can shed any further light on the Bloom family’s Polish origins. (The name
was changed to BLOOM >from the name NAWLOCKI / NAVLOSKI in the 1890’s).

Please respond to me off list.

Ruth Bloom
Isleworth
UK
Researching : BLOOM (London, Bristol); NAVLOSKI and KALIKI (Poland);
ROBINSON (USA)

I am looking for descendants or relatives of the ROBINSON family who emigrated
to the US >from London in 1910.

Meyer Robinson (b c 1876 England) son of Victor Robinson) and his wife Millie
(also know as Minnie) nee BLOOM
Children Victoria (b 1904 London); Alexander (b 1906 London) and Victor (b 1909
London).

Meyer emigrated in 1909; his passage was paid by his brother P Robinson of
406B 9th Street New York. Millie and children followed in 1910.
In 1920 and 1930 they were all living in Hoboken, New Jersey. Meyer was a
clothing merchant; Alexander an insurance agent and Victor a bookkeeper. Millie
Bloom is my great great aunt and I am keen to trace any descendants in case
they can shed any further light on the Bloom family’s Polish origins. (The name
was changed to BLOOM >from the name NAWLOCKI / NAVLOSKI in the 1890’s).

Please respond to me off list.

Ruth Bloom
Isleworth
UK
Researching : BLOOM (London, Bristol); NAVLOSKI and KALIKI (Poland);
ROBINSON (USA)

Betty R. WILNER submitted a page of testimony to Yad Vashem for her
father David in 1969. At the time she was living in New York City
10033 on Calbrisis Blvd. She died in 1985. Is there anyone who could
put me in touch with this family and any descendants?

Many thanks in advance!

Martha Lev-Zion
Israel

Betty R. WILNER submitted a page of testimony to Yad Vashem for her
father David in 1969. At the time she was living in New York City
10033 on Calbrisis Blvd. She died in 1985. Is there anyone who could
put me in touch with this family and any descendants?

Many thanks in advance!

Martha Lev-Zion
Israel

I am still in hot pursuit of descendants of my ROTHSCHILD family >from
Bruck [absorbed into Erlangen], Germany. Thanks to very generous help

from Christof Eberstadt and Gisela Naomi Blume through Johann

Fleischmann, I have some new leads!

Hedwig E ROTHSCHILD b. in Furth was married to Erich ROSENTHAL, b. in
Aschaffenberg, [both in Germany], and she died in London, England in 1999. Does
anyone have any idea how to proceed further? I am a total novice in anything
dealing with England and I would like to find their descendants and reunite my
family.

Heartfelt thanks for all the help you have given me to date!!! When I
think that I started with my early orphaned grandfather who knew
nothing about his family and have been able to get back to my gggggf,
that is nothing short of a miracle [and lots of hard work!].

Martha Lev-Zion

I am still in hot pursuit of descendants of my ROTHSCHILD family >from
Bruck [absorbed into Erlangen], Germany. Thanks to very generous help

from Christof Eberstadt and Gisela Naomi Blume through Johann

Fleischmann, I have some new leads!

Hedwig E ROTHSCHILD b. in Furth was married to Erich ROSENTHAL, b. in
Aschaffenberg, [both in Germany], and she died in London, England in 1999. Does
anyone have any idea how to proceed further? I am a total novice in anything
dealing with England and I would like to find their descendants and reunite my
family.

Heartfelt thanks for all the help you have given me to date!!! When I
think that I started with my early orphaned grandfather who knew
nothing about his family and have been able to get back to my gggggf,
that is nothing short of a miracle [and lots of hard work!].

Martha Lev-Zion

In a message dated 10/28/2006 7:09:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
elirohn@... writes:

<< Guido (also may have been spelled Quido) JACHCEL born in Czechoslovakia
(town unknown) on 14 Apr 1904 is listed as a Czech refugee in the UK in
1942. He passed on May 1994 in Rhuddlan, Clwyd, (Walse) UK. Per Ancestry.com
database his name appears in the British Phone Books 1880-1984 (I have no
access to that record) >>

==In the 1940s there was a Hachshara (training farm for settlement in
Palestine) in the neighborhood (either Dyserth or At. Asaph) part of the Bachad
Organization of Orthodox Zionist youths, associated with the Mizrachi Party.
The majority of members were refugees >from Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia.

==I know that one couple left the Hachshara and opened an icercream parlor
in Rhuddlan--the only source of kosher icecream for 100 miles around. Guido may
have been one of the icecream merchants, or he may have been registered as
an alien in Rhuddlan, as the administrative government center for the wider
area.

==Perhaps someone can advice where to search the list of members of the
Bachad Hachshara in North Wales. The Sochnut (Jewish Agency) in Jerusalem may be
a starting address if you live in Israel.

Michael Bernet, New York

In a message dated 10/28/2006 7:09:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
elirohn@... writes:

<< Guido (also may have been spelled Quido) JACHCEL born in Czechoslovakia
(town unknown) on 14 Apr 1904 is listed as a Czech refugee in the UK in
1942. He passed on May 1994 in Rhuddlan, Clwyd, (Walse) UK. Per Ancestry.com
database his name appears in the British Phone Books 1880-1984 (I have no
access to that record) >>

==In the 1940s there was a Hachshara (training farm for settlement in
Palestine) in the neighborhood (either Dyserth or At. Asaph) part of the Bachad
Organization of Orthodox Zionist youths, associated with the Mizrachi Party.
The majority of members were refugees >from Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia.

==I know that one couple left the Hachshara and opened an icercream parlor
in Rhuddlan--the only source of kosher icecream for 100 miles around. Guido may
have been one of the icecream merchants, or he may have been registered as
an alien in Rhuddlan, as the administrative government center for the wider
area.

==Perhaps someone can advice where to search the list of members of the
Bachad Hachshara in North Wales. The Sochnut (Jewish Agency) in Jerusalem may be
a starting address if you live in Israel.

Michael Bernet, New York

Hi Diane,

I don't know much about Grodno, but I'm as interested as you are in
the information concerning that area. I'm searching for my ancestors
for about twelve years and I never could find anything. My paternal
grand-mother was born around 1862 in Grodno. Her family name was
LAZYNSKI (LASYNSKY, LAZYNSKI...). By the way, I noticed that you are
researching some Ladyzhinka. Could they be related ? As far as I
could understand, Grodno was in Belarus. My paternal grandfather was
born in Ruzhany, not very far >from Grodno, around 1860. His family
name was SHERESHEVSKY (or any other spelling). They emigrated with
their parents in the middle of the XIXe century and arrived in
Jerusalem. Several years later, a great part of the family emigrated
again to Paris (France), one branch went to New-York, some others
remained in Palestine (now in Israel).

In case it could help you, there is a very good website here :

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Ruzhany/

with a part telling about sources that may help you :

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Lida-District/sources-ovrvu.htm

If you heard of any information concerning Grodno, I would be very
interested in it too.
--
Eve Line Blum-Cherchevsky
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (International JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org


-------------------

Hi Diane,

I don't know much about Grodno, but I'm as interested as you are in
the information concerning that area. I'm searching for my ancestors
for about twelve years and I never could find anything. My paternal
grand-mother was born around 1862 in Grodno. Her family name was
LAZYNSKI (LASYNSKY, LAZYNSKI...). By the way, I noticed that you are
researching some Ladyzhinka. Could they be related ? As far as I
could understand, Grodno was in Belarus. My paternal grandfather was
born in Ruzhany, not very far >from Grodno, around 1860. His family
name was SHERESHEVSKY (or any other spelling). They emigrated with
their parents in the middle of the XIXe century and arrived in
Jerusalem. Several years later, a great part of the family emigrated
again to Paris (France), one branch went to New-York, some others
remained in Palestine (now in Israel).

In case it could help you, there is a very good website here :

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Ruzhany/

with a part telling about sources that may help you :

http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Lida-District/sources-ovrvu.htm

If you heard of any information concerning Grodno, I would be very
interested in it too.
--
Eve Line Blum-Cherchevsky
Besancon (France)
and also
Cercle de Genealogie Juive (International JGS in Paris)
http://www.genealoj.org


-------------------

Hi

it seems every body got it wrong
Mattersdorf is Nagymarton, in the Sopron County, today in Slovakia,
Neufeld was a common name in that Jewish community

Dov Weber
New york

Hi

it seems every body got it wrong
Mattersdorf is Nagymarton, in the Sopron County, today in Slovakia,
Neufeld was a common name in that Jewish community

Dov Weber
New york

A big thank you to all of those who responded to my Viewmate translation
posting. Sorry if some of you had trouble with the links, I did check
before
I posted it and they worked fine.

All of my questions have now been resolved so I'm onto the next puzzle.

Regards,
Bonnie Zeisler Frederics
Tucson, AZ
picturethisfilm@...

A big thank you to all of those who responded to my Viewmate translation
posting. Sorry if some of you had trouble with the links, I did check
before
I posted it and they worked fine.

All of my questions have now been resolved so I'm onto the next puzzle.

Regards,
Bonnie Zeisler Frederics
Tucson, AZ
picturethisfilm@...

On 2006.10.28, Dov Weber <dweber@...> wrote:

I want to correct about Rabbi Aryeh Leib know as the Shaggas
Aryeh, his family name was never Gunzburg, this error was made by
the author of "Toldos Mishpechos Gunzburg", even he corrected
himself in the second part of his book [...] his father was
R. Osher, but not R. Osher Gunzburg

I have read "Toldos Mishpechos Gunzburg", and Maggid traces from
R. Shimon GINZBURG, the first GINZBURG to settle in the town of the
same name, down to (amongst others) the Shaagas Arye. I am,
therefore, confused as to how it is possible that the Shaagas Arye
was not a GINZBURG.

Nachum Tuchman
Tekoa, Israel

--
Searching:
TUCHMAN / KLARMAN / ASPIS - Busko-Zdroj Poland, Kielce Gubernia
LIEBERMAN/KALUSHEWICZ / ZYSSMAN/TZIGUTCH - Lowicz Poland
RAIDER / REJDER / GINSBERG - Soly/Smorgon Belarus
ROSINSKY / BAYLETT / PAILET / BERNSTEIN - London
KIWI - Samter, Posen/Berlin BUETOW - Zeitz/Berlin

On 2006.10.28, Dov Weber <dweber@...> wrote:

I want to correct about Rabbi Aryeh Leib know as the Shaggas
Aryeh, his family name was never Gunzburg, this error was made by
the author of "Toldos Mishpechos Gunzburg", even he corrected
himself in the second part of his book [...] his father was
R. Osher, but not R. Osher Gunzburg

I have read "Toldos Mishpechos Gunzburg", and Maggid traces from
R. Shimon GINZBURG, the first GINZBURG to settle in the town of the
same name, down to (amongst others) the Shaagas Arye. I am,
therefore, confused as to how it is possible that the Shaagas Arye
was not a GINZBURG.

Nachum Tuchman
Tekoa, Israel

--
Searching:
TUCHMAN / KLARMAN / ASPIS - Busko-Zdroj Poland, Kielce Gubernia
LIEBERMAN/KALUSHEWICZ / ZYSSMAN/TZIGUTCH - Lowicz Poland
RAIDER / REJDER / GINSBERG - Soly/Smorgon Belarus
ROSINSKY / BAYLETT / PAILET / BERNSTEIN - London
KIWI - Samter, Posen/Berlin BUETOW - Zeitz/Berlin