Mark Lewis wrote

So, does anyone have any ideas of what/where this town might be?
BTW - family name was POKRASSE.

1. Vyshhorod, located 10 miles North >from Kiev.
2. Vyshgorodok, located in Wolyn region, some 200 miles west >from Kyiv.

Please check towns distribution of surname Pokrass (Pokrassa, Pokrasse) in
JGFF database.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab

Mark Lewis wrote

So, does anyone have any ideas of what/where this town might be?
BTW - family name was POKRASSE.

1. Vyshhorod, located 10 miles North >from Kiev.
2. Vyshgorodok, located in Wolyn region, some 200 miles west >from Kyiv.

Please check towns distribution of surname Pokrass (Pokrassa, Pokrasse) in
JGFF database.

Alexander Sharon
Calgary, Ab

The question I have for this group, is how accurate are Naturalization Records.
People are always looking for a manifest to match these Records, and some find
the person on that manifest and some don't.

Based on what I found with my own family, highly inaccurate. For instance,
my pgm's petition was full of inaccuracies. I could just hear my father
(who took down the info for the application >from my 70+ year old, ailing
grandmother) "Mama, when did you arrive in NY?" And her reply gave the name
but she never said "I didn't arrive in NY." He also recorded she arrived
(in NY) on July 4, 1896. No ships docked in NY that day. There is also my
now well known story of the brother my father and his siblings disliked so
much that on the application showed my gm had 4 children not the 5 she
actually had (and the disliked brother was alive and the first born).

I'm sure others have similar stories.

Regards,
Anita Citron
Hicksville, NY
Searching: NADWORNY everywhere and anywhere

The question I have for this group, is how accurate are Naturalization Records.
People are always looking for a manifest to match these Records, and some find
the person on that manifest and some don't.

Based on what I found with my own family, highly inaccurate. For instance,
my pgm's petition was full of inaccuracies. I could just hear my father
(who took down the info for the application >from my 70+ year old, ailing
grandmother) "Mama, when did you arrive in NY?" And her reply gave the name
but she never said "I didn't arrive in NY." He also recorded she arrived
(in NY) on July 4, 1896. No ships docked in NY that day. There is also my
now well known story of the brother my father and his siblings disliked so
much that on the application showed my gm had 4 children not the 5 she
actually had (and the disliked brother was alive and the first born).

I'm sure others have similar stories.

Regards,
Anita Citron
Hicksville, NY
Searching: NADWORNY everywhere and anywhere

Do you want to know how to use the most popular genealogy software? Do you have
questions on how you can get the results you need?

JFRA Tel Aviv's next meeting will feature Daniel Horowitz, who can answer all
your questions.

Daniel, a recent immigrant >from Caracas, Venezuela taught Jewish genealogy to
students in Caracas for many years, will give his Family Tree Maker program
presented at NY 2006 in August.

The presentation will be in English.

The computer-based presentation will introduce you to the software, how to enter
information, how to navigate across the tree, elaborate family trees, reports
and printouts.

Daniel will cover sharing family history research over the Internet or mail, how
to publish it on the web, and will include a computer based PowerPoint
presentation with slides, explanations, pictures, graphics, maps, photos, etc.

JFRA Tel Aviv
7.30 p.m.
Bet Shalom
2 Shir St., Tel Aviv

JFRA Members: no charge
Non-members: NIS 20

For more information, contact Tel Aviv chair Hinda Solomon,
hinda@...

Best wishes,

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
President, JFRA Israel
dardasht1@...
schelly@...

Do you want to know how to use the most popular genealogy software? Do you have
questions on how you can get the results you need?

JFRA Tel Aviv's next meeting will feature Daniel Horowitz, who can answer all
your questions.

Daniel, a recent immigrant >from Caracas, Venezuela taught Jewish genealogy to
students in Caracas for many years, will give his Family Tree Maker program
presented at NY 2006 in August.

The presentation will be in English.

The computer-based presentation will introduce you to the software, how to enter
information, how to navigate across the tree, elaborate family trees, reports
and printouts.

Daniel will cover sharing family history research over the Internet or mail, how
to publish it on the web, and will include a computer based PowerPoint
presentation with slides, explanations, pictures, graphics, maps, photos, etc.

JFRA Tel Aviv
7.30 p.m.
Bet Shalom
2 Shir St., Tel Aviv

JFRA Members: no charge
Non-members: NIS 20

For more information, contact Tel Aviv chair Hinda Solomon,
hinda@...

Best wishes,

Schelly Talalay Dardashti
President, JFRA Israel
dardasht1@...
schelly@...

Do you live in the greater Los Angeles area and want to jump-start your
genealogical research, make headway with your family trees and scale some
brick walls? Eager to learn innovative strategies and techniques for more
productive searching or are you a beginner in need of some one-on-one
assistance? Does threading a microfilm machine confound you? Then join JGSLA
members and LDS-FHC volunteers at our assisted research day to get the help
you need.

When: Sunday, November 5, 2006
Where: Los Angeles Regional Family History Center, 10741 Santa Monica Blvd.,
West Los Angeles

We will begin the day at 11:30 a.m. at the LDS Visitor’s Center Theater with
Joel Weintraub’s main lecture on census-searching strategies and at 1:00
p.m. we will open the downstairs Family History Center for some serious
genealogical sleuthing. Here are the details:

11:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m. – “Census Research Online: Strategies and Success” -
Joel Weintraub
LDS Visitors' Center - Theatre I

A number of geographical aids and other census tools have been added to the
Steve Morse OneStep website. When a name cannot be found for an existing
surname index for the 1910-1930 censuses, or searching for names on the
1905-1925 NY State Censuses for NYC, searching using an address is the only
way of finding the record. Joel will discuss these One Step census tools,
their uses and their limitations, along with highlighting how to navigate
the New York State census “with fewer tears,” getting the most out of online
census databases and census microfilm collections.

Joel Weintraub, Ph.D. was born and raised in Manhattan. He is presently an
emeritus Biology Professor at California State University Fullerton and has
won awards for his science teaching. Joel started transcribing streets
within census districts in 2001 to help researchers search the 1930 US
Census (released in 2002). David Kehs and Stephen Morse joined him in this
venture in 2002 and together they have produced a large number of online
census searching utilities for both the federal census and the New York
State censuses on the Morse One Step Website.

1:00 p.m. – 5:00 p.m. - Assisted Research Day and Afternoon Classes, Los
Angeles Regional Family History Center

JGSLA members will assist you in the microfilm room and computer stations,
showing you how to access records on JewishGen, JRI-Poland and the
ItalianGen/NYC vital and naturalization records websites. Joel Weintraub
will also be available to assist you in using the census-searching
techniques discussed in his lecture and will provide Enumeration District
maps of large cities >from 1900 to 1940 (on hard drive) to provide an ED #
for the target residence of researchers who have an address and know what
part of a city they are looking for.

The following classes, taught by our knowledgeable members, will be offered
in the FHC classroom:

1:15 p.m. – 2:15 p.m.: “Resources at the Family History Center,” Barbara
Algaze , JGSLA Librarian

If you are unfamiliar with the FHC microfilm and book collections and
computer databases, this introductory talk will demystify them, providing
examples of the different types of birth, marriage, death, immigration,
naturalization, and census records you can locate at the Center.

2:30 p.m. – 3:00 p.m. : “Ordering Vital Records >from Salt Lake City’s Family
History Library/Accessing New York City Records,”Gerry Winerman , JGSLA Past
President

Learn about the most inexpensive way to get copies of vital records, and how
to simplify your research by using the notebook Gerry has created especially
for the Family History Center patrons with roots in New York.

3:15 – 3:45: “Designing and Printing Your Family Tree,” Lois Ogilby-Rosen,
JGSLA Member.

After experimenting with many ways to format, layout and print a large
scroll of her family tree, Lois found an easy method to produce a beautiful
and illustrative document. She will demonstrate her family evolving
“masterpiece” and explain how she created it, where it was printed and how
much it cost. Come prepared with questions and suggestions to share with
others.

3:45 – 4:45:“ Opening April 1, 2012: the 1940 US Census,” Joel Weintraub

On April 1, 2012, the 1940 Census will become public. For those of you who
can’t bear waiting six years for information, Joel will offer an overview of
the census, the enumeration, the questions, and the current efforts for the
One Step site to develop a utility to enable you to determine the
enumeration district in advance of the release date. With this information
you will be ready to access the census sheets and not have to wait for a
name index.

* Note that the LARFHC offers patrons:

47 networked computers, 63 film reader machines, 8 microfiche reader
machines, 116,300 rolls of film, 100,000+ microfiche, the largest collection
of passenger lists in western US other than SLC, large gazetteer file,
California death records 1905+, acquired films not available in SLC - "F"
films, Library of Contgress FHC catalog 1970+, 30,000+ books including the
extensive JGSLA reference library (go to:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsla/library.htm for complete list of our
holdings)

IMPORTANT REMINDERS: The assisted research day is open only to JGSLA
members, but you can join at the door. Consider bringing a friend, giving a
membership as an early Hannukah present, and introducing them to the
wonderful world of Jewish genealogy. Bring your brown-bag lunch to eat
downstairs.

*Please note: Joel Weintraub’s 11:30 a.m. lecture will take place in the LDS
Visitor’s Center. Enter through the upstairs entrance to the Visitor’s
Center on the south side of the building. Those arriving at 1:00 p.m. for
the regular Assisted Research Day (including afternoon classes) please enter
as usual through the east side building entrance and go downstairs to the
basement where the Family History Center Library is located.

Directions: The Los Angeles Regional Family History Center (LARFHC) is
located at 10741 Santa Monica Boulevard, West Los Angeles, between Selby
Avenue and Manning Avenue. Access to the LARFHC, the Los Angeles Temple,
Visitor's Center and other buildings is via Eastborne (east side of the Los
Angeles Temple) off of Manning Avenue. Website: http://www.larfhc.org/

For JGSLA information go to: http://www.jgsla.org

If you are interested in volunteering in your area of expertise to help and
mentor others on November 5th, please contact me.

Hope to see you at this terrific research day!

Pamela Weisberger
Program Chair, JGSLA
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@...

Do you live in the greater Los Angeles area and want to jump-start your
genealogical research, make headway with your family trees and scale some
brick walls? Eager to learn innovative strategies and techniques for more
productive searching or are you a beginner in need of some one-on-one
assistance? Does threading a microfilm machine confound you? Then join JGSLA
members and LDS-FHC volunteers at our assisted research day to get the help
you need.

When: Sunday, November 5, 2006
Where: Los Angeles Regional Family History Center, 10741 Santa Monica Blvd.,
West Los Angeles

We will begin the day at 11:30 a.m. at the LDS Visitor’s Center Theater with
Joel Weintraub’s main lecture on census-searching strategies and at 1:00
p.m. we will open the downstairs Family History Center for some serious
genealogical sleuthing. Here are the details:

11:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m. – “Census Research Online: Strategies and Success” -
Joel Weintraub
LDS Visitors' Center - Theatre I

A number of geographical aids and other census tools have been added to the
Steve Morse OneStep website. When a name cannot be found for an existing
surname index for the 1910-1930 censuses, or searching for names on the
1905-1925 NY State Censuses for NYC, searching using an address is the only
way of finding the record. Joel will discuss these One Step census tools,
their uses and their limitations, along with highlighting how to navigate
the New York State census “with fewer tears,” getting the most out of online
census databases and census microfilm collections.

Joel Weintraub, Ph.D. was born and raised in Manhattan. He is presently an
emeritus Biology Professor at California State University Fullerton and has
won awards for his science teaching. Joel started transcribing streets
within census districts in 2001 to help researchers search the 1930 US
Census (released in 2002). David Kehs and Stephen Morse joined him in this
venture in 2002 and together they have produced a large number of online
census searching utilities for both the federal census and the New York
State censuses on the Morse One Step Website.

1:00 p.m. – 5:00 p.m. - Assisted Research Day and Afternoon Classes, Los
Angeles Regional Family History Center

JGSLA members will assist you in the microfilm room and computer stations,
showing you how to access records on JewishGen, JRI-Poland and the
ItalianGen/NYC vital and naturalization records websites. Joel Weintraub
will also be available to assist you in using the census-searching
techniques discussed in his lecture and will provide Enumeration District
maps of large cities >from 1900 to 1940 (on hard drive) to provide an ED #
for the target residence of researchers who have an address and know what
part of a city they are looking for.

The following classes, taught by our knowledgeable members, will be offered
in the FHC classroom:

1:15 p.m. – 2:15 p.m.: “Resources at the Family History Center,” Barbara
Algaze , JGSLA Librarian

If you are unfamiliar with the FHC microfilm and book collections and
computer databases, this introductory talk will demystify them, providing
examples of the different types of birth, marriage, death, immigration,
naturalization, and census records you can locate at the Center.

2:30 p.m. – 3:00 p.m. : “Ordering Vital Records >from Salt Lake City’s Family
History Library/Accessing New York City Records,”Gerry Winerman , JGSLA Past
President

Learn about the most inexpensive way to get copies of vital records, and how
to simplify your research by using the notebook Gerry has created especially
for the Family History Center patrons with roots in New York.

3:15 – 3:45: “Designing and Printing Your Family Tree,” Lois Ogilby-Rosen,
JGSLA Member.

After experimenting with many ways to format, layout and print a large
scroll of her family tree, Lois found an easy method to produce a beautiful
and illustrative document. She will demonstrate her family evolving
“masterpiece” and explain how she created it, where it was printed and how
much it cost. Come prepared with questions and suggestions to share with
others.

3:45 – 4:45:“ Opening April 1, 2012: the 1940 US Census,” Joel Weintraub

On April 1, 2012, the 1940 Census will become public. For those of you who
can’t bear waiting six years for information, Joel will offer an overview of
the census, the enumeration, the questions, and the current efforts for the
One Step site to develop a utility to enable you to determine the
enumeration district in advance of the release date. With this information
you will be ready to access the census sheets and not have to wait for a
name index.

* Note that the LARFHC offers patrons:

47 networked computers, 63 film reader machines, 8 microfiche reader
machines, 116,300 rolls of film, 100,000+ microfiche, the largest collection
of passenger lists in western US other than SLC, large gazetteer file,
California death records 1905+, acquired films not available in SLC - "F"
films, Library of Contgress FHC catalog 1970+, 30,000+ books including the
extensive JGSLA reference library (go to:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgsla/library.htm for complete list of our
holdings)

IMPORTANT REMINDERS: The assisted research day is open only to JGSLA
members, but you can join at the door. Consider bringing a friend, giving a
membership as an early Hannukah present, and introducing them to the
wonderful world of Jewish genealogy. Bring your brown-bag lunch to eat
downstairs.

*Please note: Joel Weintraub’s 11:30 a.m. lecture will take place in the LDS
Visitor’s Center. Enter through the upstairs entrance to the Visitor’s
Center on the south side of the building. Those arriving at 1:00 p.m. for
the regular Assisted Research Day (including afternoon classes) please enter
as usual through the east side building entrance and go downstairs to the
basement where the Family History Center Library is located.

Directions: The Los Angeles Regional Family History Center (LARFHC) is
located at 10741 Santa Monica Boulevard, West Los Angeles, between Selby
Avenue and Manning Avenue. Access to the LARFHC, the Los Angeles Temple,
Visitor's Center and other buildings is via Eastborne (east side of the Los
Angeles Temple) off of Manning Avenue. Website: http://www.larfhc.org/

For JGSLA information go to: http://www.jgsla.org

If you are interested in volunteering in your area of expertise to help and
mentor others on November 5th, please contact me.

Hope to see you at this terrific research day!

Pamela Weisberger
Program Chair, JGSLA
Santa Monica, CA
pweisberger@...

Good morning to all. I have reasons to suspect that the LEVY families
of Scharrach-Bergheim and the Lauterbourg are related. If this is true
it would explain why our grandfather Leopold LEVY of Gelucourt
(Scharrach-Bergheim originally) was brought to this country by Leopold
CASPARI of Lauterbourg.

Does anyone have any information that would connect the two families? I
have looked at both and find suggestive similarities in given names but
no proof.

Thank you for any help you might give me in solving this long lasting
puzzle.

Leonard

Leonard Robbins
Cleveland, TX, USA
_______________________________________________________________________

Good morning to all. I have reasons to suspect that the LEVY families
of Scharrach-Bergheim and the Lauterbourg are related. If this is true
it would explain why our grandfather Leopold LEVY of Gelucourt
(Scharrach-Bergheim originally) was brought to this country by Leopold
CASPARI of Lauterbourg.

Does anyone have any information that would connect the two families? I
have looked at both and find suggestive similarities in given names but
no proof.

Thank you for any help you might give me in solving this long lasting
puzzle.

Leonard

Leonard Robbins
Cleveland, TX, USA
_______________________________________________________________________

sorry if i'm being obtuse, but 1901 was a long time ago. is this to advise us of a historic document relating to our ancestors' citizenship, or is there a typo in the century?


....... tom klein, toronto

Many thanks to everyone who answered my naming customs question. I got some
good insights. Names are so interesting!!

Debbi Korman
Portland, OR

The Ashkenazic custom of naming only after deceased relatives applies to
the religious name. Many names, such as Simon, although of biblical
origin, were common names among non-Jewish Hungarians, and also used by Jews
as their civil names.

Sometimes, a Jew would have a biblical civil name, and a quite different
religious name. I have found instances where a father and son had the same
civil name.

The Ashkenazic custom of naming only after deceased relatives applies to
the religious name. Many names, such as Simon, although of biblical
origin, were common names among non-Jewish Hungarians, and also used by Jews
as their civil names.

Sometimes, a Jew would have a biblical civil name, and a quite different
religious name. I have found instances where a father and son had the same
civil name.

sorry if i'm being obtuse, but 1901 was a long time ago. is this to advise us of a historic document relating to our ancestors' citizenship, or is there a typo in the century?


....... tom klein, toronto

Many thanks to everyone who answered my naming customs question. I got some
good insights. Names are so interesting!!

Debbi Korman
Portland, OR

My ancestors left the town in 1885 and on their subsequent censuses wrot=
e
they were >from Magyar, Czechoslovakia, Germany and Austria. I was told =
by
a cousin that she was always told that this Matzdorf was in Hungary at t=
he
foot of the Carpathian Mountains. Does this seem familiar to anyone out=

there?<

I used a comprehensive Hungarian book which identifies two villages named=

Matzdorf: Magyar Helyse'gne'y-Azonosi'to' Szo'ta'r, edited by Lelkes
Gyo:rgy. Baja: Talma Ko:nyvkiado', 1998: [All place names in Hungary for
1898-1913, and their population by ethnic background as in the 1910 Censu=
s
Population]:

p. 710: Matzdorf =3D Herna'dma'te', Szepes county, Iglo'i district:
p. 257: 225 Slovak residents

p. 710 Matzdorf =3D Mateo'c, Szepes county, Szepesszombati district:
p. 391 1609 German, Slovak, and Hungarian residents
<<

On the following map, Herna'dma'te' is at about 47' (see scale on right o=
f
map) by 47' (see scale on bottom of map); Mateo'c is at about 20' (top ma=
p
scale) by 42' (left map scale:
=

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/szepes.jpg

Szepes county was at the center top of pre-Trianon Hungary, and it border=
ed
the part of Galicia that is Slovakia today.

Good luck with your search.

Maureen Tighe-Brown

We have instances of both the general "naming for living grandparents"
phenomenon and the Simon problem in my Slovakian Hungarian family.

First note that Simon was often used as a secular name for Jews whose
Jewish name was not Shimon. In our case, we have several Simons who were
Shemaya, so you could even have Shemaya/Simon who had a son Shimon
without any contradiction whatsoever. Another name which has the same
phenomenon is Sam - we have Sams who are Samuel, but also Schneur, Zusia
and Shalom.

Second, you refer to cousins and uncles. That is often a matter of two
different people being named for the same person - or even for two
different people. Except in the cases of descendants - a child having
the same name as a parent or grandparent - no one makes an issue of that.
In our case, two of my sisters have the middle name Leah and no one ever
thought that was a problem.

But there is also the matter of naming for living grandparents, which I
raised here a couple of years ago when I learned that my great-
grandfather Rosenzweig - born in Trenscin County Slovakia - named two of
his children after his living parents. No one here was able to help me on
that question at the time, aside >from some suggestions that they were
originally Sephardim, who kept that custom. (That didn't seem logical to
me as they had been in Trenscin County since at least 1750.)

When I was in Pittsburgh after the NYC Conference, I went to my ggf's
grave and put the question to him. Seven days later, in a post by Dr
Judith Romney Wegner on JewishGen (not addressed to me), I learned that
this was sometimes done by more secular, westernized Jews of Central and
Western Europe in order to distinguish themselves >from the
"superstitious" Jews of Eastern Europe. My grandmother was the least
superstitious person I have known and it made sense to me that her father
would have had this attitude.

(And lest you say that this was a coincidence, I must add that the same
day I asked a question of my Galician great-grandfather and he too sent
me an answer seven days later.)

Israel Pickholtz
Gush Etzion ISRAEL

My ancestors left the town in 1885 and on their subsequent censuses wrot=
e
they were >from Magyar, Czechoslovakia, Germany and Austria. I was told =
by
a cousin that she was always told that this Matzdorf was in Hungary at t=
he
foot of the Carpathian Mountains. Does this seem familiar to anyone out=

there?<

I used a comprehensive Hungarian book which identifies two villages named=

Matzdorf: Magyar Helyse'gne'y-Azonosi'to' Szo'ta'r, edited by Lelkes
Gyo:rgy. Baja: Talma Ko:nyvkiado', 1998: [All place names in Hungary for
1898-1913, and their population by ethnic background as in the 1910 Censu=
s
Population]:

p. 710: Matzdorf =3D Herna'dma'te', Szepes county, Iglo'i district:
p. 257: 225 Slovak residents

p. 710 Matzdorf =3D Mateo'c, Szepes county, Szepesszombati district:
p. 391 1609 German, Slovak, and Hungarian residents
<<

On the following map, Herna'dma'te' is at about 47' (see scale on right o=
f
map) by 47' (see scale on bottom of map); Mateo'c is at about 20' (top ma=
p
scale) by 42' (left map scale:
=

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/szepes.jpg

Szepes county was at the center top of pre-Trianon Hungary, and it border=
ed
the part of Galicia that is Slovakia today.

Good luck with your search.

Maureen Tighe-Brown

We have instances of both the general "naming for living grandparents"
phenomenon and the Simon problem in my Slovakian Hungarian family.

First note that Simon was often used as a secular name for Jews whose
Jewish name was not Shimon. In our case, we have several Simons who were
Shemaya, so you could even have Shemaya/Simon who had a son Shimon
without any contradiction whatsoever. Another name which has the same
phenomenon is Sam - we have Sams who are Samuel, but also Schneur, Zusia
and Shalom.

Second, you refer to cousins and uncles. That is often a matter of two
different people being named for the same person - or even for two
different people. Except in the cases of descendants - a child having
the same name as a parent or grandparent - no one makes an issue of that.
In our case, two of my sisters have the middle name Leah and no one ever
thought that was a problem.

But there is also the matter of naming for living grandparents, which I
raised here a couple of years ago when I learned that my great-
grandfather Rosenzweig - born in Trenscin County Slovakia - named two of
his children after his living parents. No one here was able to help me on
that question at the time, aside >from some suggestions that they were
originally Sephardim, who kept that custom. (That didn't seem logical to
me as they had been in Trenscin County since at least 1750.)

When I was in Pittsburgh after the NYC Conference, I went to my ggf's
grave and put the question to him. Seven days later, in a post by Dr
Judith Romney Wegner on JewishGen (not addressed to me), I learned that
this was sometimes done by more secular, westernized Jews of Central and
Western Europe in order to distinguish themselves >from the
"superstitious" Jews of Eastern Europe. My grandmother was the least
superstitious person I have known and it made sense to me that her father
would have had this attitude.

(And lest you say that this was a coincidence, I must add that the same
day I asked a question of my Galician great-grandfather and he too sent
me an answer seven days later.)

Israel Pickholtz
Gush Etzion ISRAEL