Re: Illegitimate births circa 1840 #germany

Eva Lawrence

Laws about only allowing the oldest son to marry were certainly believed
to be in existence in some areas and in certain jurisdictions, whether
that was the case or not.
It's the only explanation I can think of for the fact that my 4xgreat
grandfather and his older brother lied about their relative ages on the
former's civil marriage record in 1832 in Bonn, Regierungsbezirk Coeln.
which had become part of Prussia in 1815, after years of checkered
history and French rule.
Anselm Ungar brought a one-year-old child into the marriage, while his
older brother Leopold, a witness on the record, was still unmarried.
The discrepancy caused all sorts of difficulties
on the family's later civil records, and I've not yet disentangled all
the facts about the whole episode.

Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK
Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK.

Kacska family #usa


Ibrkieve the name was changed to Cohan or Cohen when they came to US

Looking for Lapes (Lopis, Lapis) Odessa/Ukraine 1880s #ukraine


Through the databases we have linked back to the USA and UK c. 1890. Lapis (via Yad-Vashem) seems to be spread throughout the Pale - but we don't have more definitive clues.

We have made some decent connections in the US post migration but no clear origins.

David Lapes - London

Lapes, Lapis, Lopis

William Lopis - 1840 (UKR)
Nathan Lapes - 1854 (UKR)

Descendents - Pugatsky, Lerner, Susman

Re: Davidic Ancestry in the First Century? #general

Harvey Kaplan

Hi Marcel

Even if she had a Jewish ancestor, it's unlikely to have made her mother Jewish, so it would be wrong to say that her children are Jewish.

Of course, many people in Europe and elsewhere had Jewish ancestry somewhere - which is now being indicated by dna testing - but it's really only academic.

best wishes

Harvey Kaplan

On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 02:07, Marcel Apsel <marcap@...> wrote:

Hi Harvey,


You have a point that Princess Kate is maybe not of Jewish descent.  I have been told some years ago that her maternal grandfather was of Jewish descent.  I found out tonight that her ancestor John Goldsmith lived in the East End.  The information I got years ago that a lot of Jews during the 17th and 18th century moved from Amsterdam (mostly Sefardi) and Northern Germany (mostly Ashkenazi) to London and settled in the East End of London.  During de following decades (mostly after 1750) a lot of Jews assimilated completely and tried to wipe out their Jewish connections.  I cannot proof anything  about John Goldsmiith and I am not looking forward to find a proof, even though he lived in the East End, but I have a personal experience with a colleague of our local Jewish Genealogical Society, whose family name is Jones and this family live in Belgium for almost 150 years, coming from the East End of London, where their ancestors settled about 100 years earlier (about 1750) and before then coming somewhere from Northern Germany.  He has done some research in London himself about 10-15 years ago with no really positive results.  He knows that ancestors of his (about 200 years ago) were called Jonathan and I told him that probably they wanted to Anglicize their name into a British sounding name and as hypothesis I told him that Jones was probably (with no proof) a phonetic adaption In English from Jonathan.  My conclusion is that plenty former Eastenders might be of Jewish descents, because at a certain moment they had a large community.  But again, this is only an assumption and not formal proof.


Marcel Apsel

Antwerpen, Belgium

Re: EISENSTADT #belarus


Hi Alan,
Eisenstat Feyga Haimova from Shedrin asked passport for immigration in 1923 

Eisenshtadt Shebshel Mendelev born 1910 from Minsk ask passport for Palestine in 1929

Re: Looking for a researcher who lives in Vitebsk #belarus


first of all if you know the documents you can write directly in Archive and they will send you copies
If you dont have such possibility I probably can go there - give me please details

Re: What Do You Pay a Translator for a 50 Page Document in Pollsh #translation

Yehuda Berman

I don't know the translation charge from Polish to  English but I should imagine that a lot depends on how long it takes to translate a page, and what the cost of living is in a given country. I'm a semi-retired professional translator from Hebrew to English, mostly academic articles and books. I charge per double-spaced English page (because an English page is about 30-35 % longer than a Hebrew page, which is written without vowels). On the average a good translation takes about an hour per 250 word English page. The cost of living here is high. Anybody in Israel who charged $2 a page (like the German translator) would have a hard time making ends meet. Assuming that, unlike Hebrew, it takes only 15 minutes to translate a page from Polish to English, in a 40 hour week he would earn $320, or about $16,000 a year.  Three possibilities: 1) the cost of living is low; 2) he only translates part-time and his main job is something else; 3) quality leaves something to be desired.
Yehuda Berman
Efrat, Israel

Searching: BERMAN, Tomashpil, Ukraine; KOGAN, Chisinau (Kishinev); ECHTMAN, Odessa; KAMINSKY, Odessa

Re: Jewish gauchos Argentina #latinamerica

Ariel Parkansky

Hi Michael,
In addition to all the other answers that you have already received you can contact the "Museo de las Colonias Judias de Entre Rios" ( who has a huge archive related to the people living in the colonies.
Also, if your relative arrived in Argentina through the JCA program, you can contact the Jewish Museum of Buenos Aires ( who has the archives with the JCA passenger lists. 
Ariel Parkansky

Re: Eastern European surname suffix in transliteration #translation #names

Dr.Josef ASH

Russian has NO sound (and, naturally, no letter) "W". So I always transliterate it as V.
The last sound "ch": transliterating into English I use the  "ch" which sounds like in "chair, change".
I don't speak Polish so I am not sure how sound "cz" and don't use it.
from Hebrew: if this is "tsadi" it is transliterated "ts". If it is tsadi', with apostroph, it is "ch".
there is no letter for "ch" in Yiddish, it uses "tet-shin"
you wrote: or Borovich). The latter usage seems unsound
Josef ASH, Israel

Re: Hebrew gravestone translation #translation


The date was read correctly by the first person who responded, namely:  the 8th of Cheshvan, 5679.
Fredel Fruhman
Brooklyn, New York, USA

Re: Warsaw birth record - why registered 3 months late? #warsaw


My gg grandfather registered the births of multiple children (including some who were already deceased) at one time a few years after some of their births. There is a note in the records that the reason for the delay was his constant traveling.
We know he was involved in textile trade in the area around Lodz and assume that he often traveled for work reasons. This also could be why there are contradictory records for his childrens' births listing both Belchatow and Zloczew as the birthplaces, while family lore was always that the family was from Lodz.
Something to consider is that people were more mobile than we might assume. Travel took longer but was still done. Something as simple as traveling could be a reason for delayed registration.

Binyamin Kerman
Baltimore MD

Searching for Gross, Sloman, Jacobs, Harris families #unitedkingdom

Richard Gross

24 May 2020

I’m looking for the following families and/or information about them please.

1. Anna (aka Annie) SAMUEL nee GROSS. She was married to Paul Y SAMUEL (YANPOLSKI). Annie was born in Leeds, UK in 1866 and died on 14 Oct 1937 in Chicago. I have a lot of information about her husband but have no idea why she was in Chicago. Can someone help with this? Anna’s mother was Sarah Gross nee Sloman, sister to Jessie below.

2. Samuel GROSS (1824-1917) married Jessie SLOMAN (1842-1910) in 1859 in Leeds, Yorkshire, UK. They emigrated almost at once for the USA and settled in Brooklyn, NYC where their four children were born.

a) Hyman (1861-1925) married Lillian Guinzberg (1867-?1930). She was born somewhere in Pennsylvania. They had two sons - Walter E (1890-1964) and Howard J (1897-?).

i) Walter married Anne Strassner (1899-1990) and they had two sons - Stanley H (1923-?) and Harold Victor (1925-2015).
ii) Harold married Esther H Utal (1925-1968) who was born and died in New York. Their son was Donald S Gross (1952- ).

b) Rebecca married Abraham Goldsmith/Goldschmidt (1862-1929) from New York. They had no children.
c) Solomon Richard married Esther aka Etta Rosenbaum (1879-?) in1908 in New York. They had no children as far as I know.
d) Reuben never married.

Beulah Gross in Australia
Researching GROSS, JACOBS, HARRIS, SLOMAN all from Leeds, Yorkshire, UK, Kimberley, South Africa and New York, USA.

More about unwed mothers: #germany #general

Roger Lustig

Peter Cohen asks:

I do not know if it applies to 1840, but there were times when
authorities in some German cities attempted to control the Jewish
population by only allowing the oldest son to marry. This was largely
unsuccessful because the Jews were not terribly concerned about civil
marriage, as long as they were religiously married. But, this resulted
in a lot of "illegitimate" births because the parents were not permitted
to marry in a civil ceremony.

David Lewin comments:

Are you certain about "only allowing the oldest son to marry" ? I know
of only the head of the family and the oldest son allowed to earn a
living, but never heard of marriage prohibition.


As with most questions of this sort, not only the date but the place
must be specified. In 1840, only those parts of Germany west of the
Rhine plus Nassau and perhaps one or two other small principalities had
civil marriage at all.

The prohibition on marriage may not have been stated as such, but was
essentially the case in places where only one son of a resident could
establish himself as a resident, taking over his parent's residence
permit, so to speak. Since marriage was as much a property transaction
as a blessing of a union, establishing oneself and marrying went hand in

In the event, Bavaria (the Palatinate excepted) was notable for
continuing the restrictions on sons' establishing themselves until 1861.
Most other states had abolished such rules some time before.

Roger Lustig

Princeton, NJ USA

research coordinator, GerSIG

Re: Illegitimate births circa 1840 #germany

Roger Lustig

Regarding births in 1840s Germany that were entered as illegitimate,
Rich Meyersburg asks:

1.  Was this common?

2.  Was this due to a difficulty in obtaining services for either a
religious or civil marriage? (in the first instance)

3. How was this usually treated by the community?

1: Yes. In my experience, between 5 and 8 percent of births were to
unwed mothers.

2: I don't think civil marriage existed in 1840s Hessen-Kassel, which is
where Hebenshausen was located. Among Jews, obtaining services was not a
problem, as any Jewish male could officiate, and in towns without a
rabbi, the schoolteacher or shochet or cantor (often all the same
person) was called upon for such tasks. In other towns, the head of the
congregation would officiate.

3: Unwed Jewish mothers weren't shunned, generally. Some later married,
some did not. Children of unwed mothers were treated like other children.

Roger Lustig

Princeton, NJ

Research coordinator, GerSIG

Re: Hebrew gravestone translation #translation



Hello Geners,


The civil date does indeed convert into the Hebrew year of 5679.  However, the Hebrew letter for the Hebrew year convert into 5379.

Hope this helps, Malka

Re: Warsaw birth record - house number but no street? #warsaw


Are you sure that it is the house number?  It is probably the plot number.  Most Warszawa records contain the plot number and it is rare to see the house number/street name listed on the record.  Information on the plot number and the house number can be found at the following JewishGen webpage

Every plot number has a respective house number and street name.   The house numbers are not always consecutive, so you can not use that is basis  Warszawa records were separated into districts and every plot number can be correlated to a district.   Warszawa was a city and not a town.

Hadassah Lipsius
Kew Gardens Hills, New York

My grandmother- Katie or Gitel Kuznetsov Pevsner or Posner #belarus

Gerry Posner

I reach out to the readers of Jewish Gen who read this message board to see if anyone can provide me with information about my grandmother Katie which she was known by in Winnipeg, Canada or Gitel as she was known in what was then White Russia, now Belarus. She was likely from the shtetl of Mstislavl and likely married there in 1906 to her husband Yerma, later Herman Pevsner, later Posner in Canada. The couple lived in another shtetl then called Propoisk, now Slavgorod. She gave birth in Winnipeg to 7 children between 1907 and 1922 when she died just shy of her 39th birthday. Sadly, not much else is known about her other than the fact that she was the daughter of Joseph or Yosef and that she had thin hair. She might have had a brother Benjamin. It seems like such a tragedy that a woman who was responsible in part for so many people who are alive today and who was mother to 7 kids of her own, should be so forgotten and unknown. The name Kuznetsov was not an uncommon name in that area then or even now, but was less used within the Jewish community.

Re: Ukraine Brick Wall MILLSTEIN #ukraine

Chuck Weinstein

Few records from Kiev have been indexed, although both Familysearch and Alex Krakovsky's Ukraine wiki page have posted extensive record sets for Kiev.  You may have to wait until those records have been transcribed and indexed and that may be a few years.  The JewishGen Ukraine Research Division has downloaded the records from Alex's page, and once the backlog we are already experiencing from his scans slows down a bit, we will ask interested people to contribute to getting these scans indexed.

Chuck Weinstein
Towns Director, JewishGen Ukraine Research Division

Re: Austria, Vienna: Exit questionnaire & visa documents #austria-czech

Daniela Torsh

Recht als Unrecht is a book of names of Jews who filled out forms to detail what possessions they had so the Nazis could confiscate them before they emigrated. Its held in the National Library in Vienna in the Third Disctrict.  The files attached to the anmes are also available in the library. Avotaynu had published the list of names but I don't have the issue number. If you email the editor you may find the list there. Or you can write to the National Library and ask them.
Or ask someone like Frank Feiner or Traude Triebel to go to the library for you and copy the files.
Daniela Torsh

Re: Austria, Vienna: Exit questionnaire & visa documents #austria-czech

Daniela Torsh

Hi Leah,
I found a whole cache of these questionnaires in Jerusalem at the Centre for the history of the Jewish People. I managed to find some relating to my cousin Fritz Lichtblau. He and his mother Marie got support form the IKG to emigrate from Vienna  to New York. I think I also found a questionnaire for my uncle Fritz THORSCH  but I am not sure where I have put them.
As I understand it from an exhibition in Vienna I saw at the Jewish Museum there a lot of the IKG papers and documents were sent to Jerusalem for safekeeping during the Nazi era. The Centre allows researchers to look at their material but they do not do any research. I made a trip to Israel as I wanted to meet some cousins I had found and went to the centre which is on a university campus in Jerusalem and did the research there.
My uncle Fritz THORSCH  aunt and cousin managed to get entry to England first and then to USA. The Ellis Island (in New York) records are available and I found my family arrival  there too. If any of your family got into America they would be in the naturalisation records there. You can also check the American census records online.
Good luck with your search.
Daniela torsh